Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Beck has never had a real chance

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;821251]I'm going to be comparing Kolb and Beck this year. Both were high 2nd round picks in 2007 with limited NFL opportunities and limited success. I want to see if Kolb is really worth a 2nd round pick and a starter on defense vs. Beck's practice squad compensation.[/quote]

The combination of what the Cardinals gave up for Kolb and then the contract they gave him combined with the fact that he's started all of 7 NFL games is just straight up staggering. It remains to be seen how he'll do in Arizona, but IMO the Eagles committed a straight up robbery.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;821254]The Cards gave too much for Kolb. I think he will pan out, but isn't going to get Arizona to the promised land anytime soon. Beck is struggling at camp they say, and with him already getting injured isn't a good omen. I know it isn't serious, but still. The Shannys have put there reps on the line for saying this guy is the real deal and he has this happen. I'll tell you one thing, if Beck doesn't pan out and is a bust, Shanny is going to get it.[/quote]

Get what? Fired?

And then who is Dan going to hire?

Mike's in a pretty good place right now. If Beck works out, he's a genius. If Beck doesn't, but he starts Rex and they do okay to well, he still looks good. If both of them fail, he's in position to draft his quarterback of the future in a much better draft class. Hell, he's in that position even if they do well.

If Dan fires Mike now, there ain't a coach outside of the organization that's going to want to come here. None of the big names like Gruden and Cowher, none of the up and comers. The only guy who could take over would be someone from within the organization...

And that guy would either be Has, or it would be Kyle. So nothing would change.

I'd say Mike feels comfortable regardless.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;821264]Get what? Fired?

And then who is Dan going to hire?

Mike's in a pretty good place right now. If Beck works out, he's a genius. If Beck doesn't, but he starts Rex and they do okay to well, he still looks good. If both of them fail, he's in position to draft his quarterback of the future in a much better draft class. Hell, he's in that position even if they do well.

If Dan fires Mike now, there ain't a coach outside of the organization that's going to want to come here. None of the big names like Gruden and Cowher, none of the up and comers. The only guy who could take over would be someone from within the organization...

And that guy would either be Has, or it would be Kyle. So nothing would change.

I'd say Mike feels comfortable regardless.[/quote]

Not get fired, just lose face!!!!!!!!!!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;821269]Not get fired, just lose face!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Lose face with who? The fans? The media? Didn't he already kind of do that with the whole McNabb fiasco?

The guy just traded a fringe Hall of Fame quarterback for the price of a Niles Paul after insinuating that he wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, was out of shape, was lazy and was altogether miserable to work with, and then threw his support behind a third string quarterback who hasn't thrown a pass in four years as an UPGRADE at the position.

Yeah, I'd say Mike gives two dog farts about "losing face" in anyone's minds. Dude has three Super Bowl rings and is one of the winningest coaches in history, I'd say he pretty fine with his station in life.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;821280]Lose face with who? The fans? The media? Didn't he already kind of do that with the whole McNabb fiasco?

The guy just traded a fringe Hall of Fame quarterback for the price of a Niles Paul after insinuating that he wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, was out of shape, was lazy and was altogether miserable to work with, and then threw his support behind a third string quarterback who hasn't thrown a pass in four years as an UPGRADE at the position.

Yeah, I'd say Mike gives two dog farts about "losing face" in anyone's minds. Dude has three Super Bowl rings and is one of the winningest coaches in history, I'd say he pretty fine with his station in life.[/quote]

Oh really? IF this guy talks up Beck anymore and the guy can't produce, he is going to come off as a retard, especially after the McNabb crap. I am getting coworkers who know I am a Skins fan asking WTF? Beck? It is a joke where the Detroit Lions have better depth at QB than we do. To be honest, I think Shanny is just trying to verbally make the best out of the situation. I mean what is he going to say? Beck sucks, deal with it. He might as well say the season is going to be a long one fellas, pack it in before game #1? We should have gone after Ponder with the first pick. We needed a young QB in the fold that might show some promise, instead we get a probable journeyman lifer. Thus far this experiment with Kerrigan is turning out to be a bust. It still is early, but damn, if you want an OLB draft an OLB, not a DE. Yeah it worked with Orakpo, but that is Orakpo. Snyder must have patience, but if Shanny keeps making boneheaded moves with the Qbs, Snyder just might go back to his old ways if Shanny doesn't get things going on a solid path. IF Beck does suck, you are looking at 2014 at the earliest til we are a contender. Rexy isn't our answer at QB either to be fair to Beck. Snyder has just as big if not bigger ego than Shanny. IF Shanny doesn't produce soon or at least gives the hint of producing soon, Snyder is going to say WTF, and take control again.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;821264]Get what? Fired?

And then who is Dan going to hire?

Mike's in a pretty good place right now. If Beck works out, he's a genius. If Beck doesn't, but he starts Rex and they do okay to well, he still looks good. If both of them fail, he's in position to draft his quarterback of the future in a much better draft class. Hell, he's in that position even if they do well.

If Dan fires Mike now, there ain't a coach outside of the organization that's going to want to come here. None of the big names like Gruden and Cowher, none of the up and comers. The only guy who could take over would be someone from within the organization...

And that guy would either be Has, or it would be Kyle. So nothing would change.

I'd say Mike feels comfortable regardless.[/quote]


Surely you jest when you say there aren't coaches out there who would want to come and coach the Redskins. Maybe not the "trophy name coaches" on your list, but there are probably a hundred college guys and NFL assistants/coordinators who would give up their first born child to take a head coaching job in the NFL with any team that made them a decent offer.

The only way Shanahan gets fired at the end of the year is if he goes 0-16 PLUS he testifies for the Washington City Paper in the lawsuit that Snyder filed against that paper. Other than that, he is here next year unless he quits.

And from what I have seen so far - - I did not say this could never change but from what I have seen so far - - I am not convinced that Kyle Shanahan could be an effective NFL coach next year any more than I think Vinnie Cerrato could come back and be an effective NFL GM next year.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;821293]Surely you jest when you say there aren't coaches out there who would want to come and coach the Redskins. Maybe not the "trophy name coaches" on your list, but there are probably a hundred college guys and NFL assistants/coordinators who would give up their first born child to take a head coaching job in the NFL with any team that made them a decent offer.
[B]
The only way Shanahan gets fired at the end of the year is if he goes 0-16 PLUS he testifies for the Washington City Paper in the lawsuit that Snyder filed against that paper. Other than that, he is here next year unless he quits.[/B]

And from what I have seen so far - - I did not say this could never change but from what I have seen so far - - I am not convinced that Kyle Shanahan could be an effective NFL coach next year any more than I think Vinnie Cerrato could come back and be an effective NFL GM next year.[/quote]

Snyder has to be prepared for us to suck right? I mean everyone else can see the writing on the wall.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;821254]The Cards gave too much for Kolb. I think he will pan out, but isn't going to get Arizona to the promised land anytime soon. Beck is struggling at camp they say, and with him already getting injured isn't a good omen. I know it isn't serious, but still. The Shannys have put there reps on the line for saying this guy is the real deal and he has this happen. I'll tell you one thing, if Beck doesn't pan out and is a bust, Shanny is going to get it.[/quote]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/redskins-qb-coach-beck-and-grossman-both-capable/2011/08/08/gIQAFHrh3I_blog.html]Redskins QB coach: Beck and Grossman both capable - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;821257]I think it would just be great if it's Kellen Clemens...or Ben Chappell (though considerably less likely) that emerges from this as the man at QB[/quote]

I personally don't care who the QB is as long as he has what it takes to lead this team back to glory!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/10/bill-romanowski-says-lazy-mcnabb-couldnt-fit-with-shanahan/]Bill Romanowski says “lazy” McNabb couldn’t fit with Shanahan | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;822045][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/10/bill-romanowski-says-lazy-mcnabb-couldnt-fit-with-shanahan/]Bill Romanowski says “lazy” McNabb couldn’t fit with Shanahan | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Isn't McNabb famous for those hell weeks in Arizona? I'm sorry, I mean I'm looking for reasons why McNabb failed in DC, but I'm not about to pin laziness on him just so we can look righteous.

If I had to guess I'd stay stubbornness was most most likely the biggest culprit. This is McNabb we're talking about here. Not Dan late night at the cabana club Marino.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;822050]Isn't McNabb famous for those hell weeks in Arizona? I'm sorry, I mean I'm looking for reasons why McNabb failed in DC, but I'm not about to pin laziness on him just so we can look righteous.

If I had to guess I'd stay stubbornness was most most likely the biggest culprit. However this is McNabb we're talking about here. Not Dan late night at the cabana club Marino.[/quote]


He also said on JIM ROME that "Mcnabb may not have been smart enough"

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;822053]He also said on JIM ROME that "Mcnabb may not have been smart enough"[/quote]

Why is it that the guys coming to our defense are the Bill Romanowski's of the world. Why can't we get Jaws, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Tom Jackson, someone, ANYONE that isn't a humongous blowhard.

Heck we might as well have Jose Canseco speak up for us at this point

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

lol no shit

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;822054]Why is it that the guys coming to our defense are the Bill Romanowski's of the world. Why can't we get Jaws, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Tom Jackson, someone, ANYONE that isn't a humongous blowhard.

Heck we might as well have Jose Canseco speak up for us at this point[/quote]

Dirtbag:

Maybe we could get Terrell Owens to do a Q&A for the Warpath. That might be fun... :spank:

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=FRPLG;821317]Snyder has to be prepared for us to suck right? I mean everyone else can see the writing on the wall.[/quote]I feel like this season is infinitely more likely to end in a Shanahan resignation/retirement party than any other outcome. The five year contract is inflated like a free agent deal, except it's technically "guaranteed".

But I'm sure there's a mutual understanding of expectations. If Shanahan was actually here to rebuild the franchise (like Gibbs was here to rehabilitate it), they would have started in 2010. They weren't here for that. Shanahan took this job to try to capitalize on an advantageous situation left behind by Zorn: low expectations and a boatload of talent on the roster.

A year and a half later, the franchise is in a completely different place. The talent on the roster has been pretty much wiped clean. The team isn't nearly as old as it was before. There's not too many 25 and under players to be excited about yet, but the bad contracts are all gone. Coming out of the lockout, we had a blank slate. And we used predominately a "the future is now" strategy in free agency, though we did so without mortgaging the future position (finally).

Bruce Allen is here for the long haul. Mike Shanahan though appears to be more interested in proving that he is smarter than the rest of the league (that was right on a number of players coming out of college that others missed on). Hey, if Shanahan is the genius he believes he is, this team will go ten and six, and Kellen Clemens will have a 4,000 yard passing season. Of course he's staying on board if that happens.

I mean, if we win this year, all bets are off and Hooray! for rebuilding The Right Way. If we lose this year, well, I think Shanahan is in good position to make a clean split with the organization in roughly the same long-term shape than when he took over and all he did was waste two years of Dan Snyder's not-all-that-valuable time. Life will go on.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;822070]Shanahan took this job to try to capitalize on an advantageous situation left behind by Zorn: low expectations and a boatload of talent on the roster.[/quote]

What are you talking about Tripp?

A boatload of talent on the roster?

Redskin fans have slogged through this pathetic twenty year campaign of barely almost passable mediocrity and they sure as shit know the talent level on the Redskins has been terribly terribly overrated forever. By ourselves mostly. And Mr. Smithers (aka Vinny)

They were just paid like talented players.

Shanny was well aware of this. He has a different plan.

I agree with most everything else you said.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;822070][B]I feel like this season is infinitely more likely to end in a Shanahan resignation/retirement party than any other outcome.[/B]

I strongly but respectfully disagree, i think this year is the year that we begin to compete again, i'd say 8-8. Shanahan's cleaning up after "Vinny and Dan's BOGUS ADVENTURE"/10 + year rager, filled with a lot of excess in every area. He had to make a plan, and take out the garbage. this year he knows what tools he has and what he doesn't, he's got guys who bought into the system, most of whom know what is to be expected or at least will by the end of preseason. so why after light is visible after this dismal tunnel of franchise history is starting to end will he just walk away? he always talks about full commitment/effort, so why would he leave a job unfinished?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;822063]Dirtbag:

Maybe we could get Terrell Owens to do a Q&A for the Warpath. That might be fun... :spank:[/quote]

In terms of blowhards

Romanowski > T.O

People just forget because T.O has been around more recently.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

mike will stay past this year, i'd bet on it gtripp ;) he's been around long enough and he's a lifer, and i mean... who else is danny going to get? fisher (sp?) is the only good candidate out there.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;822050]Isn't McNabb famous for those hell weeks in Arizona? I'm sorry, I mean I'm looking for reasons why McNabb failed in DC, but I'm not about to pin laziness on him just so we can look righteous.

If I had to guess I'd stay stubbornness was most most likely the biggest culprit. This is McNabb we're talking about here. Not Dan late night at the cabana club Marino.[/quote]


When we talk about McNabb being lazy, it's not necessarily that he didn't work out, or that he didn't spend time in the film room, or do the things the quarterback is "supposed" to do.

It's that he was the last guy on the field in practice, and he lacked urgency and tempo in practice. His chill attitude didn't gel well with Mike's no non-sense approach. His lack of urgency on the field and in the huddle led to a lot of unnecessary delay of game penalties, and it didn't allow time to make adjustments at the line. Part of what helped the o-line with Rex in there was the fact they got in and out of the huddle quicker, which allowed the line time to adjust.

A faster tempo gives the offense more time to adjust and the defense less time to do the things they need to do.

On top of being either unwilling or unable to adjust to the way Kyle does things, and struggling to learn the playbook, he didn't even have the best sense or urgency to operate the offense with the plays he did know.

I think that's the definition of "lazy" here, and while Mike likes Rex and Beck a little more. They've got a little more hustle on the field.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=wilsowilso;822073]What are you talking about Tripp?

A boatload of talent on the roster?

Redskin fans have slogged through this pathetic twenty year campaign of barely almost passable mediocrity and they sure as shit know the talent level on the Redskins has been terribly terribly overrated forever. By ourselves mostly. And Mr. Smithers (aka Vinny)

They were just paid like talented players.

Shanny was well aware of this. He has a different plan.

I agree with most everything else you said.[/quote]Well, when Albert Haynesworth, Andre Carter, Donovan McNabb, and Fred Davis sit in favor of Ma'ake Kemoeatu, Rocky McIntosh, Rex Grossman, and Mike Sellers, I do understand why someone would think this.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I apologize for anyone who perceives my above post as overly negative, as I'm just trying to read between the lines. Coaches who are Mike Shanahan's age don't come in to rebuild franchises or happily sustain long periods of losing. I don't know if any coach has taken a job (recently) at Shanahan's age or older, had back to back losing seasons, and then managed to return for a third year. That's way less fun than retirement.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;822084]I apologize for anyone who perceives my above post as overly negative, as I'm just trying to read between the lines. Coaches who are Mike Shanahan's age don't come in to rebuild franchises or happily sustain long periods of losing. I don't know if any coach has taken a job (recently) at Shanahan's age or older, had back to back losing seasons, and then managed to return for a third year. That's way less fun than retirement.[/quote]

but he's a coaching lifer, he literally doesn't have anything else to do... he rather still be playing, if he could.

I don't know... there's stubborn and then there's this guy, so i don't see it so soon, especially since he has the keys to the kingdom and the fans aren't revolting... and i don't think (besides rex getting hurt and the qb play sinking past terrible) it'll go sour unless we go 4-12 this year.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=That Guy;822080]mike will stay past this year, i'd bet on it gtripp ;) he's been around long enough and he's a lifer, and i mean... who else is danny going to get? fisher (sp?) is the only good candidate out there.[/quote]Lifers who stick around (such as Dick Vermell in KC, Marty Schottenheimer in SD, Norv Turner in SD, Herm in KC, Wade in DAL, Coughlin in NY) typically didn't have to deal with multiple losing seasons in a row before retirement. In fact, none of those guys had consecutive losing seasons after their first job and returned for a third. Herm got the closest, I suppose. The most "recent" example I found of a older, re-tread coach who took a job then had back to back losing seasons and didn't call it a career was Vermeil in St. Louis. But he won the super bowl in his third year.

Mariucci went three losing seasons in Detroit, but he was ten years younger than Shanahan when Detroit hired him.

Parcells, Gibbs, Holmgren, Dungy all had winning seasons in one of their first two years back. If we're going to make the argument that Shanny can go 5-11 this year and won't step down at the end of the season, only Dennis Green was hired in his mid-late fifties by an organization that was struggling, then took three years to try and turn it around. Needless to say, I think either Shanahan's work pays off and he stays, or it doesn't and he leaves. I don't see a middle ground here. Winning is fun. Losing means retirement.

This applies to Chan Gailey as well, by the way. Though I have a good feeling that the Bills might avoid a losing season this year and keep Gailey employed.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=That Guy;822086]but he's a coaching lifer, he literally doesn't have anything else to do... he rather still be playing, if he could.

I don't know... there's stubborn and then there's this guy, so i don't see it so soon, especially since he has the keys to the kingdom and the fans aren't revolting... and i don't think (besides rex getting hurt and the qb play sinking past terrible) it'll go sour unless we go 4-12 this year.[/quote]I don't know. I feel like the exception you're making in terms of expecting Shanahan back in 2012 would be the status quo here. I think he's fully expecting to win with this team, and I don't think he's looking ahead.

So...yeah, two losing seasons in a row, and I think he'll let someone else have a try. It's not like he's set up his successor for a championship run or anything that he's simply too tired to take himself. Either he's built something here or he hasn't done squat. We'll know in four months.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

The other thing to consider is that Mike hasn't ever had consecutive 9+ loss seasons in his career. Ever.

They are definitely in uncharted territory here.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;822089]The other thing to consider is that Mike hasn't ever had consecutive 9+ loss seasons in his career. Ever.

They are definitely in uncharted territory here.[/quote]

that said, he doesn't have a QB, so what can you expect? mike's definitely been able to do more with less, but i'm just not seeing him ready to go... if things really fall apart and it looks like last season where we're playing the wrong defense, don't have the right personnel and can't stop anyone, then yeah, i can see it.

I don't really see that happening though. they put 4 new bodies in the front 7, and at least 3 are going to help a lot (kerrigan still needs to get up to speed a bit), and the teams hasn't really gotten worse anywhere. OL is improved - rabach is gone, we've got a 6th starter for depth, and its a very fast line overall. helu torrain and hightower are better than our RBs last year, and jabar/donte beats the crap out of galloway/that other crappy guy from last year, even if hankerson doesn't blow it up.

anyways, i'm saying, with drew brees, this is a playoff team ;) if only... but i don't see us being much worse, the team is younger, we've got next year's picks, and andrew luck may be a possibility. so we're not set up to be awful going into next year.

QB is awful, and if this year was super important, they would had overpaid for orton and gauranteed average, but acceptable QB play for the next 3-4 years... obviously that's not the way to a superbowl though, so i'm assuming they're waiting to get their guy next year, and that mike's on board with that.

gibbs wasn't an nfl lifer, he was out for a decade, and the 2nd time around he had casserly replaced with a moron committee that didn't really do him a lot of favors. after his 2nd year, the team wasn't any better, younger, or draft pick rich then when he came.

if we go 8-8, 7-9, whatever and qb play is killing us, that's a one stop problem. I just don't see it being that dismal in 4 months, but i guess we'll see soon enough.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=That Guy;822095]that said, he doesn't have a QB, so what can you expect? mike's definitely been able to do more with less, but i'm just not seeing him ready to go... if things really fall apart and it looks like last season where we're playing the wrong defense, don't have the right personnel and can't stop anyone, then yeah, i can see it.

I don't really see that happening though. they put 4 new bodies in the front 7, and at least 3 are going to help a lot (kerrigan still needs to get up to speed a bit), and the teams hasn't really gotten worse anywhere. OL is improved - rabach is gone, we've got a 6th starter for depth, and its a very fast line overall. helu torrain and hightower are better than our RBs last year, and jabar/donte beats the crap out of galloway/that other crappy guy from last year, even if hankerson doesn't blow it up.

anyways, i'm saying, with drew brees, this is a playoff team ;) if only... but i don't see us being much worse, the team is younger, we've got next year's picks, and andrew luck may be a possibility. so we're not set up to be awful going into next year.

QB is awful, and if this year was super important, they would had overpaid for orton and gauranteed average, but acceptable QB play for the next 3-4 years... obviously that's not the way to a superbowl though, so i'm assuming they're waiting to get their guy next year, and that mike's on board with that.

gibbs wasn't an nfl lifer, he was out for a decade, and the 2nd time around he had casserly replaced with a moron committee that didn't really do him a lot of favors. after his 2nd year, the team wasn't any better, younger, or draft pick rich then when he came.

if we go 8-8, 7-9, whatever and qb play is killing us, that's a one stop problem. I just don't see it being that dismal in 4 months, but i guess we'll see soon enough.[/quote]Well I think the Orton thing is that Shanahan thinks he probably has at least one QB better in Rex/Beck/Clemens, and bringing in Orton would have cluttered things up more than solved them. Which is the only reason I can imagine he's not here.

I'm still not seeing Shanahan as fundamentally different to other recent NFL re-hires; I think you're stretching a bit there.

If he's right on the QB position, there's probably enough else useful, interesting talent here in it's prime to make the NFC East race interesting, if nothing else. 8 or 9 wins is do-able with strong QB/WR play. I think he'll come back if this team can get to that level.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;822050]Isn't McNabb famous for those hell weeks in Arizona? I'm sorry, I mean I'm looking for reasons why McNabb failed in DC, but I'm not about to pin laziness on him just so we can look righteous.

If I had to guess I'd stay stubbornness was most most likely the biggest culprit. This is McNabb we're talking about here. Not Dan late night at the cabana club Marino.[/quote]


Why do you find it so hard to believe? Just because McNabb has a "hell week" in Arizona once a year doesn't mean he isn't lazy. I think Romanowski was most likely referencing his laziness when it came to viewing/studying game film.

It's been hinted quite a bit that McNabbs work ethic was indeed in question and major issue with Shanny. (note his dealings with Plummer as well) Shanny wants a guy who's going to put that extra time in, McDummy apparently wasn't that sort of guy.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=That Guy;822080]mike will stay past this year, i'd bet on it gtripp ;) he's been around long enough and he's a lifer, and i mean... who else is danny going to get? fisher (sp?) is the only good candidate out there.[/quote]

Agreed. I'd bet on it too.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;822053]He also said on JIM ROME that "Mcnabb may not have been smart enough"[/quote]

More specifically, he said it like this:

“The reason why Donovan McNabb is not in Washington right now is because he was lazy,” Romanowski said. “He didn’t spend the time. Mike Shanahan likes guys who will work really hard. I narrow it down to two things. [B]He’s either lazy, or he’s not very bright to pick up the offense. One or the other. [I]I think he’s bright enough, I just think he was lazy[/I][/B].”

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;822081]When we talk about McNabb being lazy, it's not necessarily that he didn't work out, or that he didn't spend time in the film room, or do the things the quarterback is "supposed" to do.

It's that he was the last guy on the field in practice, and he lacked urgency and tempo in practice. His chill attitude didn't gel well with Mike's no non-sense approach. His lack of urgency on the field and in the huddle led to a lot of unnecessary delay of game penalties, and it didn't allow time to make adjustments at the line. Part of what helped the o-line with Rex in there was the fact they got in and out of the huddle quicker, which allowed the line time to adjust.

A faster tempo gives the offense more time to adjust and the defense less time to do the things they need to do.

On top of being either unwilling or unable to adjust to the way Kyle does things, and struggling to learn the playbook, he didn't even have the best sense or urgency to operate the offense with the plays he did know.

I think that's the definition of "lazy" here, and while Mike likes Rex and Beck a little more. They've got a little more hustle on the field.[/quote]

Agreed.

Lazy probably isn't the best word, I agree it had more to do with his lack of tempo and urgency, which could be perceived as laziness, but more than anything I think that's just DM's personality.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;822070]I feel like this season is infinitely more likely to end in a Shanahan resignation/retirement party than any other outcome. The five year contract is inflated like a free agent deal, except it's technically "guaranteed".

But I'm sure there's a mutual understanding of expectations. If Shanahan was actually here to rebuild the franchise (like Gibbs was here to rehabilitate it), they would have started in 2010. They weren't here for that. Shanahan took this job to try to capitalize on an advantageous situation left behind by Zorn: low expectations and a boatload of talent on the roster.

A year and a half later, the franchise is in a completely different place. The talent on the roster has been pretty much wiped clean. The team isn't nearly as old as it was before. There's not too many 25 and under players to be excited about yet, but the bad contracts are all gone. Coming out of the lockout, we had a blank slate. And we used predominately a "the future is now" strategy in free agency, though we did so without mortgaging the future position (finally).

Bruce Allen is here for the long haul. Mike Shanahan though appears to be more interested in proving that he is smarter than the rest of the league (that was right on a number of players coming out of college that others missed on). Hey, if Shanahan is the genius he believes he is, this team will go ten and six, and Kellen Clemens will have a 4,000 yard passing season. Of course he's staying on board if that happens.

I mean, if we win this year, all bets are off and Hooray! for rebuilding The Right Way. If we lose this year, well, I think Shanahan is in good position to make a clean split with the organization in roughly the same long-term shape than when he took over and all he did was waste two years of Dan Snyder's not-all-that-valuable time. Life will go on.[/quote]

Bottom line is he's not the right guy for this job. IMO.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;822144]Bottom line is he's not the right guy for this job. IMO.[/quote]

I disagree to an extent. I think Shanahan is a great coach. He just can't evaluate talent very well. He hits alot, but he swings and strikes out seemingly just as much. I don't trust his talent evaluation, and I don't trust him to trust anyone else to evaluate talent. The same sentiment I give to his son, who seems to be a great coordinator when it comes to x's and o's, but doesn't seem to know talent when he sees it, and doesn't seem to be very personable (mcdaniels esque).

If we were to get a GM or head scout that could pick the right guys, I think the shannahans could take us very far. Bruce Allen is supposedly a glorified contract negotiator/cap guy.

Keep in mind I don't think this will happen due to the stubborness of the Shanahans in that they think they know all. Basically I'm trying to say that the shannahans are good coaches, just not good at assembling teams. The talent that they have they use well, but their problem is getting the necessary pieces in place.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I just want to ask, hypothetically, that if our future qb is not determined to be on our roster by seasons end, and we get the 17th pick in the draft, how much are you willing to trade up to get a Franchise qb, and what level of qb do you expect that trade up to be (landry jones/ andrew luck). I'd personally never trade up to get luck, the cost is too high, but If we are able to give up the 17th, our second, and fifth to trade up to the 9th spot or so to get jones (assuming he is about as good as Freeman-who he reminds me of), I would do that.

I've said this too many times on this site, but I would prefer us to do terrible this year than mediocre (unless we miraculously find a franchise qb on our roster or through other means than the draft...but I'm not banking on that). Of course I would love the Redskins to surprise me and win it all, or at least a lot, with Beck, who I hope is our guy (but I'm not holding my breath on that).

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinster;822177]I just want to ask, hypothetically, that if our future qb is not determined to be on our roster by seasons end, and we get the 17th pick in the draft, [B]how much are you willing to trade up to get a Franchise qb[/B], and what level of qb do you expect that trade up to be (landry jones/ andrew luck). I'd personally never trade up to get luck, the cost is too high, but If we are able to give up the 17th, our second, and fifth to trade up to the 9th spot or so to get jones (assuming he is about as good as Freeman-who he reminds me of), I would do that.

I've said this too many times on this site, but I would prefer us to do terrible this year than mediocre (unless we miraculously find a franchise qb on our roster or through other means than the draft...but I'm not banking on that). Of course I would love the Redskins to surprise me and win it all, or at least a lot, with Beck, who I hope is our guy (but I'm not holding my breath on that).[/quote]

For Andrew Luck, I'd be all in a la Ditka w/Ricky Williams. I know that's too extreme, but it would take a bunch of picks & would be worth the risk. Plus, I trust Allen to make such a deal; he'd do everything to reduce the team's exposure to risk.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Not to mention, the Danny would love the buzz it would create w/the fans. On sites, such as, say... the Warpath!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;822081]When we talk about McNabb being lazy, it's not necessarily that he didn't work out, or that he didn't spend time in the film room, or do the things the quarterback is "supposed" to do.

It's that he was the last guy on the field in practice, and he lacked urgency and tempo in practice. His chill attitude didn't gel well with Mike's no non-sense approach. His lack of urgency on the field and in the huddle led to a lot of unnecessary delay of game penalties, and it didn't allow time to make adjustments at the line. Part of what helped the o-line with Rex in there was the fact they got in and out of the huddle quicker, which allowed the line time to adjust.

A faster tempo gives the offense more time to adjust and the defense less time to do the things they need to do.

On top of being either unwilling or unable to adjust to the way Kyle does things, and struggling to learn the playbook, he didn't even have the best sense or urgency to operate the offense with the plays he did know.

I think that's the definition of "lazy" here, and while Mike likes Rex and Beck a little more. They've got a little more hustle on the field.[/quote]


Please explain how "a faster tempo gives the offense more time to adjust". Seems to me that a faster tempo give neither side as much time to adjust.

Also, can someone demonstrate to me that the teams who made the Super Bowl in the last 3 or 4 years all played "uptempo on offense"? Frankly, I don't care nearly as much about offensive tempo as I do about offensive success. Are there really stats out there that demonstrate that "faster offense" is equal to "more succssful offense"?