Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinster;822177]I just want to ask, hypothetically, that if our future qb is not determined to be on our roster by seasons end, and we get the 17th pick in the draft, how much are you willing to trade up to get a Franchise qb, and what level of qb do you expect that trade up to be (landry jones/ andrew luck). I'd personally never trade up to get luck, the cost is too high, but If we are able to give up the 17th, our second, and fifth to trade up to the 9th spot or so to get jones (assuming he is about as good as Freeman-who he reminds me of), I would do that.

I've said this too many times on this site, but I would prefer us to do terrible this year than mediocre (unless we miraculously find a franchise qb on our roster or through other means than the draft...but I'm not banking on that). Of course I would love the Redskins to surprise me and win it all, or at least a lot, with Beck, who I hope is our guy (but I'm not holding my breath on that).[/quote]I don't think that price would be too exorbitant to get Landry Jones, assuming that Matt Barkley stays at USC.

I mean, I kind of think that good young quarterbacks aren't that hard to get if you are willing to take a chance on a guy who isn't accomplished. I mean, Kevin Kolb cost a second round pick and a crap ton of money, but any team could have had Mike Kafka for a fourth rounder. 85+ players were picked before the most accurate passer in the 2010 draft (Colt McCoy). System QBs with good tools sometimes aren't selected at all.

No doubt that the Redskins could have added any number of potential QBs of the future to the team this year if Shanny had been willing to give up the roster spot of Beck or Grossman. Heck, the team could have just drafted Blaine Gabbert at the cost of not having Ryan Kerrigan and Jarvis Jenkins.

Point is, if we want to improve our quarterback situation without giving up high picks, we can. I also think they should explore trading up in the draft if the opportunity presents itself.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinster;822174]I disagree to an extent. I think Shanahan is a great coach. He just can't evaluate talent very well. He hits alot, but he swings and strikes out seemingly just as much. I don't trust his talent evaluation, and I don't trust him to trust anyone else to evaluate talent. The same sentiment I give to his son, who seems to be a great coordinator when it comes to x's and o's, but doesn't seem to know talent when he sees it, and doesn't seem to be very personable (mcdaniels esque).

If we were to get a GM or head scout that could pick the right guys, I think the shannahans could take us very far. Bruce Allen is supposedly a glorified contract negotiator/cap guy.

Keep in mind I don't think this will happen due to the stubborness of the Shanahans in that they think they know all. Basically I'm trying to say that the shannahans are good coaches, just not good at assembling teams. The talent that they have they use well, but their problem is getting the necessary pieces in place.[/quote]

I just think we need a younger coach for this job. Like a Mike Tomlin or a Raheem Morris type of guy. We're getting younger, it's basically a rebuild and a 60 some year old coach is not the guy for that. Is Shanahan going to be here for the long haul? Nope.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

He's not ancient at 59 either. He could coach another 5-7 years no problem. He doesn't seem like the type that wants to hang things up early and go play golf all day.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;822214]He's not ancient at 59 either. He could coach another 5-7 years no problem. He doesn't seem like the type that wants to hang things up early and go play golf all day.[/quote]Ugh. Didn't we just go through this last year with McNabb?

Matty, I just don't think we can reconcile consistently failing with consistently wanting to prove that failure must of been a fluke. I think I COULD see Mike Shanahan coaching 5+ years here, but doing so while losing every season would be completely unprecedented. I'll repeat that: completely unprecedented. It hasn't happened. It won't ever happen. He needs to be winning.

Expecting Shanahan back in 2012 or 2013 is logical only if you believe that this team is on the right track, and really should win as much as it loses. The idea that he'd be completely okay with sustained losing so that he can rebuild the team before handing the reigns over to Kyle (or whoever) doesn't have any basis in reality.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;822217]Ugh. Didn't we just go through this last year with McNabb?

Matty, I just don't think we can reconcile consistently failing with consistently wanting to prove that failure must of been a fluke. I think I COULD see Mike Shanahan coaching 5+ years here, but doing so while losing every season would be completely unprecedented. I'll repeat that: completely unprecedented. It hasn't happened. It won't ever happen. He needs to be winning.

Expecting Shanahan back in 2012 or 2013 is logical only if you believe that this team is on the right track, and really should win as much as it loses. The idea that he'd be completely okay with sustained losing so that he can rebuild the team before handing the reigns over to Kyle (or whoever) doesn't have any basis in reality.[/quote]

Let's see how this year goes. He's had one year for crying out loud.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;822218]Let's see how this year goes. He's had one year for crying out loud.[/quote]

My words exactly.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

It's funny how this fanbase is only capable of looking at two things---looking at the past, and looking at the future.

The Redskins haven't even put on the pads for their first preseason game, and we're already talking about Mike quitting, or resigning, or getting fired, or what kind of coach we need in the future? Can we at least let the kicker kick off before we start talking about who's quitting?

I see two things more than anything---"well in the past..." and "we need to do this in the future." Barely anything is about NOW.

And I think any shift in coaching now would completely negate what this team desperately needs; continuity.

[quote=sportscurmudgeon]Please explain how "a faster tempo gives the offense more time to adjust". Seems to me that a faster tempo give neither side as much time to adjust.

Also, can someone demonstrate to me that the teams who made the Super Bowl in the last 3 or 4 years all played "uptempo on offense"? Frankly, I don't care nearly as much about offensive tempo as I do about offensive success. Are there really stats out there that demonstrate that "faster offense" is equal to "more succssful offense"?[/quote]

A faster tempo means you're getting to the line of scrimmage with 15-20 seconds on the play clock and the defense is still moving around trying to get set. When you break the huddle and you have 5 seconds on the clock, you gotta snap the ball, no time to scan the defense, no time to figure who who's blitzing, no time for anything. The later you get out of the huddle, the harder it is. Getting into better plays, audibles, adjustments, hot routes. Those are all easier when you have time on the clock.

I'd say the Packers and the Saints both have that high energy, fast tempo offense. The Colts, naturally, the Giants can play that style of offense too. And even though the Steelers can be old school, you won't see Big Ben taking his time to get under center too often. Package that with the fact that McNabb struggled with the terminology at times and it makes things a LOT harder.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;822218]Let's see how this year goes. [B]He's had one year for crying out loud.[/B][/quote]
...........get a rope...

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

A faster tempo means you're getting to the line of scrimmage with 15-20 seconds on the play clock and the defense is still moving around trying to get set. When you break the huddle and you have 5 seconds on the clock, you gotta snap the ball, no time to scan the defense, no time to figure who who's blitzing, no time for anything. The later you get out of the huddle, the harder it is. Getting into better plays, audibles, adjustments, hot routes. Those are all easier when you have time on the clock.

I'd say the Packers and the Saints both have that high energy, fast tempo offense. The Colts, naturally, the Giants can play that style of offense too. And even though the Steelers can be old school, you won't see Big Ben taking his time to get under center too often. Package that with the fact that McNabb struggled with the terminology at times and it makes things a LOT harder.[/QUOTE]


Using [B]your[/B] example, if the offense breaks the huddle with 15-20 seconds on the play clock AND ALSO snaps the ball quickly, they MIGHT have an advantage over a defense that is still adjusting. However, if the offense breaks the huddle with 15 seconds on the clock and comes to the line of scrimmage and fiddle-dicks around with a bunch of shifts and fake audibles and finger-pointing at one of the defensive safeties, any tempo advantage would be lost.

I'd like to see stats on the Saints and Packers in terms of the number of plays they run per minute of offensive possession to agree they play significantly faster than anyone else.

The Colts get to the line fast and then spend a LOT of time with Peyton Manning pointing and changing calls. That works for the Colts because it is Peyton Manning executing the plays once the ball is snapped. Until I see it with my own two eyes, I am nowhere near ready to put John Beck or Rex Grossman in the same paragraph with Peyton Manning if the paragraph is about "great QBs".

The Giants play "uptempo offense". Really? I must have watched different Giants' games than you watched for the last several years.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I can answer that question right now. Beck isn't taking this team anywhere but the first pick in the 2012 draft.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

beck prob isn't our qb

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;822136]Agreed. I'd bet on it too.[/quote]

Also agreed. It would take an Urban Meyer type freak accident to get Shanahan to leave next year.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

John Beck's upside is Rex Grossman last year.

Do any of you realize how hard it is to play like Rex did for the Skins last year?

Maybe only thirty guys in the world can play like that.

(:

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Landry44;822276]I can answer that question right now. Beck isn't taking this team anywhere but the first pick in the 2012 draft.[/quote]

Quoted for truth.

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;813900]not far...............4 and 12[/quote]

[quote=celts32;814042]Maybe he will take us all the way to Andrew Luck.[/quote]

[quote=KI Skins Fan;814044]On what do you base these opinions? The guy hasn't thrown a pass in an NFL game since 2007! He has thrown exactly [U]one[/U] TD in his entire four-year NFL career. [B]I cannot see a single reason, other than blind faith in Shanny, for you to conclude that Beck can stabilize our QB position.[/B][/quote]

[quote=huntz in response to celts' post;814052]DITTO!!! Remember Spurrier? He had faith in Matthews and Danny Awful! Poor QB in the NFL = Poor season.[/quote]


[quote=irish;815162]I read the question as its stated, how far can Beck take us, I didnt see where it said or implied if lots of holes are filled how far can Beck take us. You are correct, every team does have holes but the Skins have as many holes as a piece of Swiss cheese. [B]This team isnt going anywhere. This is a 8-8 team at best.[/B][/quote]

[quote=skinsfan69 in regards to how far Beck can take us;815180]Not very far.[/quote]


[quote=saden1;816609]He certainly will when he recks the train full of his bandwagoners in the preseason while Rex flys Redskin One into a 500 season.[/quote]

[quote=GusFrerotte;818318]To think we ditched probably better QB prospects over the past few seasons(Brennan, Daniel) to end up with Beck and Clemens is rather sobering.[/quote]
:doh:

[quote=skinsnut;816673]how far can Beck take us?
Probably at least to the McDonalds drive thru.
Anything else is gravy.
Expecting any more than a 6-10 season with this squad and him leading is crazy.[/quote]


[quote=CultBrennan59;818044]John Beck can take us onto the field, thats about it.[/quote]


[quote=saden1;820981]Beck is a disaster waiting to unfolding. It's not going to be pretty trainwreck so you guys best have hardened stomach. I can't wait for this clown to go away.[/quote]

I can stop quoting Saden now, his perspective is established.


[quote=Eriwar;822366][B]Beck can take us to the Number 1 over all pick in the draft.[/B] I say trade for Ryan Mallett before his value goes up even more. 6'6, canon arm, can read defenses......l'll take that guy. MS should not be so locked into the AL draft....looks like Dallas may have that pick and by the looks of it there going to have to tear that thing out the frame. What are the chances that guys is going to pan out.[/quote]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Lots of crow to be served up in this piece. Hope you like it raw. :)

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Beck can take us to the Number 1 over all pick in the draft. I say trade for Ryan Mallett before his value goes up even more. 6'6, canon arm, can read defenses......l'll take that guy. MS should not be so locked into the AL draft....looks like Dallas may have that pick and by the looks of it there going to have to tear that thing out the frame. What are the chances that guys is going to pan out.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Now the Cowboys are getting Andrew Luck?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

That's the first I've heard of the Cowboys being in the Luck sweepstakes. Most people think they are a playoff team or near it from what I hear.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Hopefully the Cowboys miss Luck because they draft second. :)

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=mooby;822402]That's the first I've heard of the Cowboys being in the Luck sweepstakes. Most people think they are a playoff team or near it from what I hear.[/quote]

Everyone ALWAYS thinks the cowbitches are going to the playoffs. They will be challenging us this year for the cellar in the NFC EAST methinks. Romo will be out by week 8, bank on it. (injury)

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

The more I read some of the idiotic replies lately, the more I wished the lockout was still in tact. At least we had decent discussions back then (and hope) for the future of this franchise. Right now, it seems many of the fans have our Redskins Bus sitting at the cliff with the engine revving high and the brake release off. All this, before the the first snap has even been played and they're already writing it off as a loss or a entry into the "Luck Sweepstakes.

My suggestion to you guys is to take the year off and relieve us of your misery. You know, since you KNOW it's going to be a disaster and complete failure, why bother watching. Just come back next off-season, or when you think the roster is up to your liking and get back to discussing Redskins football.


Until then....enjoy your trip..

[IMG]http://pages.suddenlink.net/nazgull/ThelmaLouise5.jpg[/IMG]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/08/17/snaps.judgments/index.html?sct=nfl_t11_a0]Terrelle Pryor's pro prospects, Jay Cutler's toughness, more Snaps - Don Banks - SI.com[/url]

Sounds like Beck is without a doubt our guy

It's his job to lose, and he could end up doing that.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

This John Beck guy better be Aaron Rodgers

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=mooby;822297]Quoted for truth.


















:doh:









I can stop quoting Saden now, his perspective is established.[/quote]

Why the green face after my quote? Chase at the time was fresh out of college and did rather well at Missouri in the Big 12. It was worth a shot. With Beck, we already knew how he was performing as a pro, and it wasn't so great., Ditto for Colt, we took a shot at a potential stud on the cheap. I don't think anybody thinks of Beck as a potential stud QB.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;824260]Why the green face after my quote? Chase at the time was fresh out of college and did rather well at Missouri in the Big 12. It was worth a shot. With Beck, we already knew how he was performing as a pro, and it wasn't so great., Ditto for Colt, we took a shot at a potential stud on the cheap. I don't think anybody thinks of Beck as a potential stud QB.[/quote]

Wrong. The Shanahans heavily imply they do. ;)

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I don't know about anyone else but this whole Beck deal has just about worn me out. For someone that's done NOTHING, Beck sure likes to talk a lot. I thought it was ok at first but now I'm just so tired of the guy. All he does is flap his mouth to anyone that will listen yet he hasn't thrown a pass since 07. The Shanahans are going to have egg on their faces in a matter of weeks.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;824304]I don't know about anyone else but this whole Beck deal has just about worn me out. For someone that's done NOTHING, Beck sure likes to talk a lot. I thought it was ok at first but now I'm just so tired of the guy. All he does is flap his mouth to anyone that will listen yet he hasn't thrown a pass since 07. The Shanahans are going to have egg on their faces in a matter of weeks.[/quote]

Well obviously we should hope they dont have egg on their faces in a few weeks, I hope in a few weeks they look like geniuses! I am holding off any judgement of Beck until I have seen him play at least a few regular season games and since he has not started a game since 07 I don't understand how people can be so certain that he doesn't have any talent.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;824304]I don't know about anyone else but this whole Beck deal has just about worn me out. For someone that's done NOTHING, Beck sure likes to talk a lot. I thought it was ok at first but now I'm just so tired of the guy. All he does is flap his mouth to anyone that will listen yet he hasn't thrown a pass since 07. The Shanahans are going to have egg on their faces in a matter of weeks.[/quote]

[QUOTE] “These quarterbacks – John and Rex – they’re students of the game,” Shanahan said. “They study, and now they have to go out and play. And so we’re going to evaluate them on everything they do, they’ve got a chance to compete against each other and they’re both doing a great job.”

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/mike-shanahan-rex-grossmans-experience-edge-over-john-beck-not-significant/2011/08/17/gIQADNmcMJ_blog.html]Mike Shanahan: Rex Grossman’s experience edge over John Beck not significant - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

If Shanny picks Beck and fails he will get more criticism than if he picks Grossman and fails. MS is going to get driven out of town because of Beck.

But regardless of the pick we might have a QB change early in the season. We are playing the Giants, Cardinals, Cowboys and Rams starting the season up until the bye. Very easily could go 0-4 or at least start out 0-3. Oh and we play the Eagles after the bye.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=hooskins;824327]If Shanny picks Beck and fails he will get more criticism than if he picks Grossman and fails. MS is going to get driven out of town because of Beck.

But regardless of the pick we might have a QB change early in the season. We are playing the Giants, Cardinals, Cowboys and Rams starting the season up until the bye. Very easily could go 0-4 or at least start out 0-3. Oh and we play the Eagles after the bye.[/quote]

Shanahan coached teams usually come out of the gate well. It would be a [B]very[/B] bad sign if they were 0-4 going into the bye week.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

They should just roll with Clemens...can I get an amen Tripp?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;824304]I don't know about anyone else but this whole Beck deal has just about worn me out. For someone that's done NOTHING, Beck sure likes to talk a lot. I thought it was ok at first but now I'm just so tired of the guy. All he does is flap his mouth to anyone that will listen yet he hasn't thrown a pass since 07. The Shanahans are going to have egg on their faces in a matter of weeks.[/quote]

I must have missed something -- where is Beck flapping his mouth? He has come out and said that he hasn't done anything and needs to prove himself before he can be considered a legitimate starter.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/25/john-beck-shows-redskins-hes-eager/]John Beck shows Redskins he’s eager | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Rather its Shanny and his son who are praising him to the heavens

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;824462]They should just roll with Clemens...can I get an amen Tripp?[/quote]

Not tripp but amen nonetheless - Clemens is a stone cold killer

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

See he gets asked questions and the fact he answers them annoys people. Let's forget the fact he plays the highest profile position in sports, a position that along with the head coach is often the go to person for interviews. What a jerk.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Matty, don't you realize? He should refuse to answer questions because of his lack of a resume. He should be like, for every touchdown I throw, I'll answer three questions but right now I am not worthy of the press attention.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;824572]Not tripp but amen nonetheless - Clemens is a stone cold killer[/quote]

Word! I'm going to start a section at FedEx called Kellen's Kennel...bow wow wow yippee yippee yay....where my dogs at!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

It's time to start Ben Chapple. He's been denied for too long.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Lotus;824586]It's time to start Ben Chapple. He's been denied for too long.[/quote]

I thought so too at one point, but we need him at DB

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/qb-ben-chappell-appreciates-scout-team/2011/08/16/gIQAdrx2IJ_blog.html]QB Ben Chappell appreciates scout team - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Matt Gutierrez-siempre en la lucha!!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I seem to remember that this is how the whole pineapple jesus/cult of colt clusterf*** started