Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;959919]That's part of the story.[/quote]

wasnt the key to the story, who got cheatin with?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;959898]Sure, but to your earlier post it wasn't Allen/Shanahan that pissed Los off. That bridge burned long before.

Anyhow, Redskins HC 2016....Raheem Morris. You think I'm joking[/quote]

I pray to God Kyle becomes out next head coach.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Chico23231;959926]wasnt the key to the story, who got cheatin with?[/quote]

That's another part of it

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;959930]That's another part of it[/quote]

Some reporter right?


...but why would he be bitter to the Redskins though? What exactly did the Skins do to him beyond the franchise tag?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

That was allegedly one person in this whole mess

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

So Champs wife tells him he has to get out of Washington or else she will leave him, then leaves him a year or two after he got to Denver.

Doesnt sound like leaving Washington helped him much when it comes to his marriage.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

The full story is more explosive. Affairs, pregnancies, threatened lawsuits, and an owner who said "what the **** Champ?! Don't drag me into this mess" (and rightfully so)

Ask Matty

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

sounds like a good novela

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;959871]So tired of the Vinny argument. MS and Bruce have to be held accountable for trading away picks for McNabb, for trading away picks for Brown, changing the defense and low balling Rogers. Atogwe couldn't play anymore so it didn't matter if he left and they didn't want to mess around with LL cause of his injury. Then you bring in band aids..one has a drug problem and can't play. Then you over pay Morgan and he's not playing up to his pay check. IMO he gets one more year but he needs to make the playoffs next year. 4 years in a row of no post season play at 7 mil per year???? Who keeps their job in the NFL with that record??? NO ONE.[/quote]

Indeed. Three years is enough time to turn things around where it matters - winning - if you have a real plan and know what your doing. Three years is a lifetime in the NFL. The league is structured to promote parity, through the draft, salary cap, FA etc. A five year contract for a coach is still fine, but if he can't improve the record in year three it's just wishful thinking year 4 or 5 will be better.

The other thing is, this regime has made as many really bad FA moves as the last. McNabb, Brown, a litany of defensive players that aren't making an impact. I like the way GTripp said it, Gibbs turned it around by year 2 with smart FA moves and solid coaching. Mike's had three years and we're NO CLOSER TO BEING A COMPETITIVE TEAM than when he took over, period.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;959948]Indeed. [B]Three years is enough time to turn things around where it matters - winning - if you have a real plan and know what your doing. Three years is a lifetime in the NFL. The league is structured to promote parity, through the draft, salary cap, FA etc. A five year contract for a coach is still fine, but if he can't improve the record in year three it's just wishful thinking year 4 or 5 will be better.[/B]

The other thing is, this regime has made as many really bad FA moves as the last. McNabb, Brown, a litany of defensive players that aren't making an impact. I like the way GTripp said it, Gibbs turned it around by year 2 with smart FA moves and solid coaching. Mike's had three years and we're NO CLOSER TO BEING A COMPETITIVE TEAM than when he took over, period.[/quote]

I was struck by the matter of fact manner you use. I must ask, to make your statement carry any weight or validity....what exactly is your experience on subject matters such as this? What is your level of expertise in NFL matter?

If you

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Hog1;959950]I was struck by the matter of fact manner you use. I must ask, to make your statement carry any weight or validity....what exactly is your experience on subject matters such as this? What is your level of expertise in NFL matter?

If you[/quote]

Too many examples to list of coaches that turn a broken franchise around and achieve a winning record and/or even the playoffs. But top of my mind: Lions, Niners, Bengals, and of course Redskins in Gibbs II.

So I guess observation is my answer. Three years is a long time in any sport, but the way NFL promotes parity through it's structure (think about how baseball doesn't have a salary cap) I think you see it here the most.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Sooo, to extrapolate, you have no actual practical experience in any NFL or sports related field? No expertise to be relied on. Nothing that would lend credence or validity to your statements.
Your a...fan....like so many others...HTTR

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Hog1;959953]Sooo, to extrapolate, you have no actual practical experience in any NFL or sports related field? No expertise to be relied on. Nothing that would lend credence or validity to your statements.
Your a...fan....like so many others...HTTR[/quote]

I guess if you want to ignore the rest of the league it's your choice? Not sure why you'd do that, but maybe you can enlighten me?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

No, I think all the important facts have already been revealed.....

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

^^ No idea what that's supposed to mean...neither do you, I suspect lol. Any honest person can speak to how quickly other coaches/regimes have turned a losing team into a winner. The bigger point, in fact the real issue, is that Mike's regime hasn't succeeded because of its own failures and nothing to do with what happened four, or five, or eight years ago. When you count up the failed FA signings etc of this regime it's right there with the three preceeding years.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;959951]Too many examples to list of coaches that turn a broken franchise around and achieve a winning record and/or even the playoffs. But top of my mind: Lions, Niners, Bengals, and of course Redskins in Gibbs II.

So I guess observation is my answer. Three years is a long time in any sport, but the way NFL promotes parity through it's structure (think about how baseball doesn't have a salary cap) I think you see it here the most.[/quote]

Some of these teams that were turned around arent exactly model franchises. Lions had a QB that finally stop being injured. They had one good year and are struggling again. Niners was more about Singletary than anything else. They actually had a good team, just one that refused to play for a guy that relied on insults instead of coaching. The Bengals are the same inconsistent team they usually are with a random winning season here and there. The record is a little better as a whole than 10 years ago but no one considers them world beaters. If the Bengals are what we are aspiring to be, then why care who our coach is?

The situations of all three were completely different than what the Redskins had three years ago.

The biggest problem is that the Redskins have been run by a fan. One that calls for heads to roll after a year or two, and that has been one of the problems of this team. There has been no continuity or chemistry. Especially given that Snyder will most likely look to go back to the days of Snyderatto if he fires Shanny. Which does not mean winning, in case you missed the last 20 years.

To say we are no closer to being competitive is to call RG3 a scrub. There is no way that statement is even remotely true. I get that a lot want to win something so bad that going back to winning the offseason every year is a goal. Its just a stupid goal. Win today or be fired tomorrow is not going to cut it in the NFL. We have been through 20 years of that and some are desperate to go back. I am personally not that excited about winning the offseason just so fans can claim that we have won something.

Shanny has been here 2 1/2 years. Second year was a lockout so FA was not ideal by any stretch of the imagination. First year Shanny deserves a lot of blame, because he actually thought he could win now. He deserves his fair share for that but it seems we are moving to build through the draft the last two drafts and I dont want that to stop. A coaching change now just means a brand new O-line being put in place (since the ZBS isnt exactly common) as well as massive changes to everything else. How long will that rebuild take? According to some here, it should only take 3 games. I call bs to that assertion. Does he deserve 10 years? No, and I never said he should get it. But this carousel at coaching and philosophies will never work.

As for Parity, the last 10 or so years, the same parity has existed in MLB as has in the NFL. 3 teams won it all twice with a few breakthroughs from a couple of other teams.

If the goal is to ruin RG3, then by all means, keep screaming for a new coach every year.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

........Nice, Skinzman

[QUOTE=Skinzman;959571]Out of 8 games, there has only been one we werent in. That didnt happen all that much the last few years.

Im still a believer that most teams went ultra conservative with us the last few years (or like the Giants last year, just assumed the win was guaranteed as long as they showed up and gave a half-ass effort). Most teams knew that as long as they werent giving up pick 6's to our defense, they would most likely win. We had no offense, so there was no reason to put in game plans to try and score 30 points against us and risk our defense scoring points. Its not that teams didnt want to score like crazy on us, they just knew that there was no reason to risk a play when you could just punt knowing that the ball would come back with no points scored by the Skins. Get a TD or two, then laugh as Rex/Beck/McNabb/Cambell ect. tried to get us back into the game.

I think we are getting teams best efforts and best game plans this year, and are staying right with them even with the terrible defense that we have.[/QUOTE]

Might be the case during a certain game that a team took us for granted but no way every game. Thats insanity. Its the nfl. No team took a seven point lead over us and shut down shop. Bottom line is our offense is better and our defense is worse. Now we lose 35-32 instead of 17-10. Its that simple. Teams may fear rg-3 but they know they are going to put up huge points. So the flipside of your argument would be that teams know they can let us score and it doesnt matter because they are going to score even quicker. But i think thats just as ridiculous. Unless your an albert haynesworth type player you are out there to play every down. No way coaches are telling players last year - "hey guys - take it easy dont get hurt this team cant score. ". Thats just silly.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;959972]Might be the case during a certain game that a team took us for granted but no way every game. Thats insanity. Its the nfl. No team took a seven point lead over us and shut down shop. Bottom line is our offense is better and our defense is worse. Now we lose 35-32 instead of 17-10. Its that simple. Teams may fear rg-3 but they know they are going to put up huge points. So the flipside of your argument would be that teams know they can let us score and it doesnt matter because they are going to score even quicker. But i think thats just as ridiculous. Unless your an albert haynesworth type player you are out there to play every down. No way coaches are telling players last year - "hey guys - take it easy dont get hurt this team cant score. ". Thats just silly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Or you could discuss what I was talking about. Coaches want to win, its less about winning by 50 than it is to win a game, regardless of the score. The game plans we saw the last few years have been more conservative. Because a game plan to score 30 or 40 was not needed. As well as play calling. OC's were not dialing up the plays that they are this year. If first down lost yardage, some OC's ran out the series and punted instead of being more risky. It has nothing to so with telling the players to let off, and has to do with play calling, realizing that a punt was a lot better than risking an int. while going for a TD.

Teams accepted that their game plans and play calling would result in more punts and less points. They just didnt care, because they didnt need to score every series to get the win, and that win is all they care about.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;959951]But top of my mind: Lions, Niners, Bengals, and of course Redskins in Gibbs II.[/quote]

I think you have selective or fuzzy memory.


[B][U]Jim Schwartz -Lions: [/U][/B]

1st year - 2-14 (drafted stafford with #1)
2nd year- 6-10 (drafted Suh with #2)
3rd year- 10-6
4th year - 3-4

This your idea of a turnaround? Mike hasn't ever been in the #1 or #2 slot drafting, nor has he had one of the best players in the NFL in Calvin Johnson, who Schwartz had. Mike's first 2 years were a lot better than Jim Schwartz who you mysteriously are crediting with a "turn around". Are you blind?



[B][U]Jim Harbaugh - 49ers[/U][/B]

1st year -13-3
2nd year 6-2

Lets look at the talent Jim inherited.

NaVorro Bowman
Patrick Willis (1st rounder)
Frank Gore
Joe Staley (1st rounder)
Anthony Davis (1st rounder)
Andy Lee
Vernon Davis (1st rounder)
Justin Smith
Michael Crabtree (1st rounder)

Dude, Jim had a all-pro type of talent he inherited. He didn't turn shit around. Mike Singletary simply couldn't coach or at least get his players to respond. Dude had a solid OL to boot, and a pro-bowl running back to go along with a incredible defense. If Mike inherited this type of talent and our record was anything like it is now, I would be right along with you hating.


[B][U]Marvin Lewis- Bengals[/U][/B]

Are you ****ing shitting me man? Marvin Lewis is sporting a .480 win percentage in Cincinnati since 2003

1st year - 8-8
2nd year 8-8
3rd year - 11-5 (lost wild card game)
4th year -8-8
5th year - 7-9
6th year - 4-11
7th year - 10-6 (lost wild card game)
8th year- 4-12
9th year- 9-7 (lost wild card game)
10th year- 3-4

Are you kidding me? Where is the "turn around"? They've been the playoffs only 3 times in that span and lost the wild card game each time? Is this the turn around you dream of?


[B][U]Joe Gibbs 2.0 - Redskins[/U][/B]

1st year - 6-10 (they were 9-7 year before)
2nd year 10-6 (lost divisional playoff game)
3rd year- 5-11
4th year - 9-7 (lost wild card game)

NOT a turn around. I'm not even going to bother researching all the stupid ass trades Gibbs/Cerrato did during this time all to "WIN NOW".....and they really couldn't even do that. All those draft picks and contracts they handed out for vets and FA and the best they could manage was a 10-6? Really?



C'mon man!!!

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Dude. NCSkins, that was a beat down. Nice post.

Look, I think we need to be patient & give Shanny time. He just got a real QB and it's only ~7 games into it.

Regardless, the point is well taken, despite the NCskins beatdown. I think Goat is trying to say that we've seen three years with the same record, which is a lot of losing. I get that, and I feel you. I just think patience is a virtue. Shanny hasn't made all the right decisions, but on the decisions that count, he's been right a lot. RG3, Morris, Kerrigan, Bowen, CArriker, TWilliams, Riley, etc. Lots of misses with secondary and O-line, but it's a work in progress.

I'd say although Shanny's been here for 3 years, I think his clock should start now with his new QB, and we give him 1-2 years. We're on the front page of the sports news on most weeks, and our QB is on every other commercial. Our offense is among the top in the league and it's actually exciting to watch games (really tired of the 10-7 battles of the past). I think if we get a couple of breaks on defense with good draft/FA/avoiding injuries, we have a playoff team in this NFL world of parity.

I think we're making progress.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=ethat001;959983]Dude. NCSkins, that was a beat down. Nice post.

Look, I think we need to be patient & give Shanny time. He just got a real QB and it's only ~7 games into it.

Regardless, the point is well taken, despite the NCskins beatdown. I think Goat is trying to say that we've seen three years with the same record, which is a lot of losing. I get that, and I feel you. I just think patience is a virtue. Shanny hasn't made all the right decisions, but on the decisions that count, he's been right a lot. RG3, Morris, Kerrigan, Bowen, CArriker, TWilliams, Riley, etc. Lots of misses with secondary and O-line, but it's a work in progress.

I'd say although [B]Shanny's been here for 3 years[/B], I think his clock should start now with his new QB, and we give him 1-2 years. We're on the front page of the sports news on most weeks, and our QB is on every other commercial. Our offense is among the top in the league and it's actually exciting to watch games (really tired of the 10-7 battles of the past). I think if we get a couple of breaks on defense with good draft/FA/avoiding injuries, we have a playoff team in this NFL world of parity.

I think we're making progress.[/quote]

Actually, he's 2.5 yrs into a 5 year deal. In his opening news conf as the Skins HC....He said it would take 5 years to get the Skins Org and team around.

[QUOTE=Skinzman;959975]Or you could discuss what I was talking about. Coaches want to win, its less about winning by 50 than it is to win a game, regardless of the score. The game plans we saw the last few years have been more conservative. Because a game plan to score 30 or 40 was not needed. As well as play calling. OC's were not dialing up the plays that they are this year. If first down lost yardage, some OC's ran out the series and punted instead of being more risky. It has nothing to so with telling the players to let off, and has to do with play calling, realizing that a punt was a lot better than risking an int. while going for a TD.

Teams accepted that their game plans and play calling would result in more punts and less points. They just didnt care, because they didnt need to score every series to get the win, and that win is all they care about.[/QUOTE]

I know exactly what u are talking about. Teams dont gameplan to score one or two touchdowns. Ever. Never.
Teams are throwing the ball on us and not running cus our secondary sucks not cus rg-3 is scoring alot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;959977]I think you have selective or fuzzy memory.


[B][U]Jim Schwartz -Lions: [/U][/B]

1st year - 2-14 (drafted stafford with #1)
2nd year- 6-10 (drafted Suh with #2)
3rd year- 10-6
4th year - 3-4

This your idea of a turnaround? Mike hasn't ever been in the #1 or #2 slot drafting, nor has he had one of the best players in the NFL in Calvin Johnson, who Schwartz had. Mike's first 2 years were a lot better than Jim Schwartz who you mysteriously are crediting with a "turn around". Are you blind?



[B][U]Jim Harbaugh - 49ers[/U][/B]

1st year -13-3
2nd year 6-2

Lets look at the talent Jim inherited.

NaVorro Bowman
Patrick Willis (1st rounder)
Frank Gore
Joe Staley (1st rounder)
Anthony Davis (1st rounder)
Andy Lee
Vernon Davis (1st rounder)
Justin Smith
Michael Crabtree (1st rounder)

Dude, Jim had a all-pro type of talent he inherited. He didn't turn shit around. Mike Singletary simply couldn't coach or at least get his players to respond. Dude had a solid OL to boot, and a pro-bowl running back to go along with a incredible defense. If Mike inherited this type of talent and our record was anything like it is now, I would be right along with you hating.


[B][U]Marvin Lewis- Bengals[/U][/B]

Are you ****ing shitting me man? Marvin Lewis is sporting a .480 win percentage in Cincinnati since 2003

1st year - 8-8
2nd year 8-8
3rd year - 11-5 (lost wild card game)
4th year -8-8
5th year - 7-9
6th year - 4-11
7th year - 10-6 (lost wild card game)
8th year- 4-12
9th year- 9-7 (lost wild card game)
10th year- 3-4

Are you kidding me? Where is the "turn around"? They've been the playoffs only 3 times in that span and lost the wild card game each time? Is this the turn around you dream of?


[B][U]Joe Gibbs 2.0 - Redskins[/U][/B]

1st year - 6-10 (they were 9-7 year before)
2nd year 10-6 (lost divisional playoff game)
3rd year- 5-11
4th year - 9-7 (lost wild card game)

NOT a turn around. I'm not even going to bother researching all the stupid ass trades Gibbs/Cerrato did during this time all to "WIN NOW".....and they really couldn't even do that. All those draft picks and contracts they handed out for vets and FA and the best they could manage was a 10-6? Really?



C'mon man!!![/QUOTE]

The niners sucked before harbaugh got there. Give the guy credit man. Every other team was in the playoffs their third year. Making the playoffs is great There seems to be this illusion that shanny isnt looking for a " meaningless playoff run". Like these other examples. Shanny is building a dynasty. The lions were officially the worst team in the history of football and they went to the playoffs in his third year! And thats because he had calvin johnson? Really? They all went from very bad teams to respectable or damn good within three years. Shannys hasnt. Bottom line. No excuses. Face the facts.

Edit : who cares if crabtree was a first rounder. Dude sucks.
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Edit

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;959986]The niners sucked before harbaugh got there. Give the guy credit man. Every other team was in the playoffs their third year. Making the playoffs is great There seems to be this illusion that shanny isnt looking for a " meaningless playoff run". Like these other examples. Shanny is building a dynasty. The lions were officially the worst team in the history of football and they went to the playoffs in his third year! And thats because he had calvin johnson? Really? They all went from very bad teams to respectable or damn good within three years. Shannys hasnt. Bottom line. No excuses. Face the facts.

Edit : who cares if crabtree was a first rounder. Dude sucks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]


The 49ers sucked, their talent did not. I listed all the talent on that team. Mike Singletary obviously was a poor coach. It still wasn't a "turn around" with a team with bottom of the barrel talent. We had Orakpo and old ass London Fletcher. You going to compare that with the list I put up the 49ers had?

No, the Lions haven't turned shit around man. Who's to say that 10-6 record last year was a fluke. They are sucking so far this year. Fact is, that Mike had a better record his first 2 years than did Schwartz, YET you are up here patting that guy on the back?

Schwartz was 8-24 his first two years. Mike was 11-21. Also, you talk about Detroit being the worst, did you not forget THEY BEAT US!!! Yeah, that little fun fact escaped your alternate reality didn't it.

This is mind boggling. It really is.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=nc_skins;959988]the 49ers sucked, their talent did not. I listed all the talent on that team. Mike singletary obviously was a poor coach. It still wasn't a "turn around" with a team with bottom of the barrel talent. We had orakpo and old ass london fletcher. You going to compare that with the list i put up the 49ers had?

No, the lions haven't turned shit around man. Who's to say that 10-6 record last year was a fluke. They are sucking so far this year. Fact is, that mike had a better record his first 2 years than did schwartz, yet you are up here patting that guy on the back?

Schwartz was 8-24 his first two years. Mike was 11-21. Also, [b]you talk about detroit being the worst, did you not forget they beat us!!! Yeah, that little fun fact escaped your alternate reality didn't it.[/b]

this is mind boggling. It really is.[/quote]

lol.........

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;959988]The 49ers sucked, their talent did not. I listed all the talent on that team. Mike Singletary obviously was a poor coach. It still wasn't a "turn around" with a team with bottom of the barrel talent. We had Orakpo and old ass London Fletcher. You going to compare that with the list I put up the 49ers had?

No, the Lions haven't turned shit around man. Who's to say that 10-6 record last year was a fluke. They are sucking so far this year. Fact is, that Mike had a better record his first 2 years than did Schwartz, YET you are up here patting that guy on the back?

Schwartz was 8-24 his first two years. Mike was 11-21. Also, you talk about Detroit being the worst, did you not forget THEY BEAT US!!! Yeah, that little fun fact escaped your alternate reality didn't it.

This is mind boggling. It really is.[/QUOTE]

And J.S. has more talent in Detroit by far

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;959977]I think you have selective or fuzzy memory.


[B][U]Jim Schwartz -Lions: [/U][/B]

1st year - 2-14 (drafted stafford with #1)
2nd year- 6-10 (drafted Suh with #2)
3rd year- 10-6
4th year - 3-4

This your idea of a turnaround? Mike hasn't ever been in the #1 or #2 slot drafting, nor has he had one of the best players in the NFL in Calvin Johnson, who Schwartz had. Mike's first 2 years were a lot better than Jim Schwartz who you mysteriously are crediting with a "turn around". Are you blind?



[B][U]Jim Harbaugh - 49ers[/U][/B]

1st year -13-3
2nd year 6-2

Lets look at the talent Jim inherited.

NaVorro Bowman
Patrick Willis (1st rounder)
Frank Gore
Joe Staley (1st rounder)
Anthony Davis (1st rounder)
Andy Lee
Vernon Davis (1st rounder)
Justin Smith
Michael Crabtree (1st rounder)

Dude, Jim had a all-pro type of talent he inherited. He didn't turn shit around. Mike Singletary simply couldn't coach or at least get his players to respond. Dude had a solid OL to boot, and a pro-bowl running back to go along with a incredible defense. If Mike inherited this type of talent and our record was anything like it is now, I would be right along with you hating.


[B][U]Marvin Lewis- Bengals[/U][/B]

Are you ****ing shitting me man? Marvin Lewis is sporting a .480 win percentage in Cincinnati since 2003

1st year - 8-8
2nd year 8-8
3rd year - 11-5 (lost wild card game)
4th year -8-8
5th year - 7-9
6th year - 4-11
7th year - 10-6 (lost wild card game)
8th year- 4-12
9th year- 9-7 (lost wild card game)
10th year- 3-4

Are you kidding me? Where is the "turn around"? They've been the playoffs only 3 times in that span and lost the wild card game each time? Is this the turn around you dream of?


[B][U]Joe Gibbs 2.0 - Redskins[/U][/B]

1st year - 6-10 (they were 9-7 year before)
2nd year 10-6 (lost divisional playoff game)
3rd year- 5-11
4th year - 9-7 (lost wild card game)

NOT a turn around. I'm not even going to bother researching all the stupid ass trades Gibbs/Cerrato did during this time all to "WIN NOW".....and they really couldn't even do that. All those draft picks and contracts they handed out for vets and FA and the best they could manage was a 10-6? Really?



C'mon man!!![/quote] Unequivocally, Shanahan still has the worst "turnaround" record compared to any of these examples.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;959777]Just curious what your take on the train of thought that offenses didn't run it up on us because they believed we couldn't come back - thus artificially raising our defensive stats.[/quote]Completely fabricated. No basis in reality.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Skinzman;959969]Some of these teams that were turned around arent exactly model franchises. Lions had a QB that finally stop being injured. They had one good year and are struggling again. Niners was more about Singletary than anything else. They actually had a good team, just one that refused to play for a guy that relied on insults instead of coaching. The Bengals are the same inconsistent team they usually are with a random winning season here and there. The record is a little better as a whole than 10 years ago but no one considers them world beaters. If the Bengals are what we are aspiring to be, then why care who our coach is?

The situations of all three were completely different than what the Redskins had three years ago.

The biggest problem is that the Redskins have been run by a fan. One that calls for heads to roll after a year or two, and that has been one of the problems of this team. There has been no continuity or chemistry. Especially given that Snyder will most likely look to go back to the days of Snyderatto if he fires Shanny. Which does not mean winning, in case you missed the last 20 years.

To say we are no closer to being competitive is to call RG3 a scrub. There is no way that statement is even remotely true. I get that a lot want to win something so bad that going back to winning the offseason every year is a goal. Its just a stupid goal. Win today or be fired tomorrow is not going to cut it in the NFL. We have been through 20 years of that and some are desperate to go back. I am personally not that excited about winning the offseason just so fans can claim that we have won something.

Shanny has been here 2 1/2 years. Second year was a lockout so FA was not ideal by any stretch of the imagination. First year Shanny deserves a lot of blame, because he actually thought he could win now. He deserves his fair share for that but it seems we are moving to build through the draft the last two drafts and I dont want that to stop. A coaching change now just means a brand new O-line being put in place (since the ZBS isnt exactly common) as well as massive changes to everything else. How long will that rebuild take? According to some here, it should only take 3 games. I call bs to that assertion. Does he deserve 10 years? No, and I never said he should get it. But this carousel at coaching and philosophies will never work.

As for Parity, the last 10 or so years, the same parity has existed in MLB as has in the NFL. 3 teams won it all twice with a few breakthroughs from a couple of other teams.

If the goal is to ruin RG3, then by all means, keep screaming for a new coach every year.[/quote]

All four teams I mentioned would beat the snot out of Mike's football team. I win :)

I keed I keed. Not about all four teams beating Mike's though, that shit is real. We were in a lot of games last year, and the year before. We were a below average team. (BTW the intellectual acrobatics on display about all teams playing down to us story is impressive) This year we're in most of our games. We're (still) a below average team, and it's for many of the same reasons as in years one and two e.g. bad defense, lousy special teams, poor discipline, inconsistency, questionable play-calling/play-design, and FA busts.

Nobody that I know discussed canning Mike right after last year, and obviously not after his first year. I don't know where you heard that...but neither do you probably lol.

It's year three. Some of us don't see any overall progress. We traded in a good defense/average offense (pre-Shanahan) for a shit defense/great offense that struggles in a lot of situations, usually the kind that win football games. And that's with ROY at QB.

Sometimes there is a fine line between continuity and complacency, but this isn't one of those times. Mike does not know how to win anymore as an HC. Some believe it's because he could only really win with Elway. Some believe it also had something to do with playing in a week division, and against fewer elite teams in that era. Still others believe it's because he's not actually winning anymore. That last one is a real stretch if you ask me :oink:

I think SmootSmack is right that the real continuity is with Bruce Allen. Well, SS hasn't said it that way yet but it's what he thinks. ;)

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;959985]I know exactly what u are talking about. Teams dont gameplan to score one or two touchdowns. Ever. Never.
Teams are throwing the ball on us and not running cus our secondary sucks not cus rg-3 is scoring alot.


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Ahhhhhhh snap!!!

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;959985]I know exactly what u are talking about. Teams dont gameplan to score one or two touchdowns. Ever. Never.
Teams are throwing the ball on us and not running cus our secondary sucks not cus rg-3 is scoring alot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Our secondary has ALWAYS sucked...

Hall and Wilson were our corners last year. Our safeties were Landry and Atogwe. Landry was often injured so in reality, our safeties were Atogwe and Doughty. Are you honestly saying that D Hall and Wilson were probowl corners last year? That Atogwe and Doughty were world beaters at safety? We have always had a terrible secondary, yet we see teams passing twice as often this year than in the past few years. Why? Conservative game plans and play calling from the past few years.

Im not exactly sure what you see different in our defense this year. We switched two crappy safeties out with two other crappy safeties. Other than injuries, Its the same players and the same coaching.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;959998]All four teams I mentioned would beat the snot out of Mike's football team. I win :)

I keed I keed. Not about all four teams beating Mike's though, that shit is real. We were in a lot of games last year, and the year before. We were a below average team. (BTW the intellectual acrobatics on display about all teams playing down to us story is impressive) This year we're in most of our games. We're (still) a below average team, and it's for many of the same reasons as in years one and two e.g. bad defense, lousy special teams, poor discipline, inconsistency, questionable play-calling/play-design, and FA busts.

[B]Nobody that I know discussed canning Mike right after last year, and obviously not after his first year. I don't know where you heard that...but neither do you probably lol.[/B]

It's year three. Some of us don't see any overall progress. We traded in a good defense/average offense (pre-Shanahan) for a shit defense/great offense that struggles in a lot of situations, usually the kind that win football games. And that's with ROY at QB.

Sometimes there is a fine line between continuity and complacency, but this isn't one of those times. Mike does not know how to win anymore as an HC. Some believe it's because he could only really win with Elway. Some believe it also had something to do with playing in a week division, and against fewer elite teams in that era. Still others believe it's because he's not actually winning anymore. That last one is a real stretch if you ask me :oink:

I think SmootSmack is right that the real continuity is with Bruce Allen. Well, SS hasn't said it that way yet but it's what he thinks. ;)[/quote]

[url=http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=52616]The case for Firing Mike Shanahan - hailRedskins.com Fan Board[/url]

Not this forum board, but dont say I dont know where I heard it. I have heard it, and im sure you have as well ;). The thread Im linking is not even after his first year, but during. Something tells me that if I was willing to spend the time to go back through this specific forum board, that I would find similar sentiments. Some people have been calling for his head since his first season. Granted some people also called the trade for RG3 to be one of the worst trades in the history of the entire sport.

A lot of people screamed "Young QB... Young QB..." his first two years. He waited, and we arent stuck with Gabbert. Let me repeat that... "WE ARENT STUCK WITH GABBERT". Most of the people calling for Shannys head would have taken Gabbert and called it a great day that the Skins finally have their QB of the future. And the losing would have continued for another decade regardless of who our coach is.

Did he screw up with the McNabb trade? Absolutely... But most people would not of had the guts to wait that extra year when an entire fan base was screaming for a young QB, and then had the guts to drop what was needed to bring RG3 here. Shanny does deserve credit for that, and if RG3 continues to develop into what I think he can be, then he deserves at least one more year beyond this year to see if he can make it work. We dont need to do to RG3 what we did to JC and change his offense every single year, that is a huge mistake.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=JGisLordOfTheRings;957877]fire you fire me fire everybody[/quote]

i agree. Can we make a change at owner during the bye ?

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;959988]The 49ers sucked, their talent did not. I listed all the talent on that team. Mike Singletary obviously was a poor coach. It still wasn't a "turn around" with a team with bottom of the barrel talent. We had Orakpo and old ass London Fletcher. You going to compare that with the list I put up the 49ers had?

No, the Lions haven't turned shit around man. Who's to say that 10-6 record last year was a fluke. They are sucking so far this year. Fact is, that Mike had a better record his first 2 years than did Schwartz, YET you are up here patting that guy on the back?

Schwartz was 8-24 his first two years. Mike was 11-21. Also, you talk about Detroit being the worst, did you not forget THEY BEAT US!!! Yeah, that little fun fact escaped your alternate reality didn't it.

This is mind boggling. It really is.[/QUOTE]

The Lions were 0-16 (the
Worst) the YEAR BEFORE schwartz got there. His first year they beat us. So your memory is a tad foggy too. They ended that season winning four in a row. Than the next year 10-6.
Lets do the math. 0 wins. Hire scwartz. 10 wins in year TWO.
What is mind boggling is that in your alternate reality you make the case as to why this isnt a turnaround but MS in his third year is on the rite track at 3-5?
Really?


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[QUOTE=Skinzman;960001]Our secondary has ALWAYS sucked...

Hall and Wilson were our corners last year. Our safeties were Landry and Atogwe. Landry was often injured so in reality, our safeties were Atogwe and Doughty. Are you honestly saying that D Hall and Wilson were probowl corners last year? That Atogwe and Doughty were world beaters at safety? We have always had a terrible secondary, yet we see teams passing twice as often this year than in the past few years. Why? Conservative game plans and play calling from the past few years.

Im not exactly sure what you see different in our defense this year. We switched two crappy safeties out with two other crappy safeties. Other than injuries, Its the same players and the same coaching.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for reading the rosters too me. Our secondary is far and away worse than last year and if you are going to tell me it isnt than this conversation is going to go into the land of false premise where people say whatever they want and pigs fly and that becomes exhausting.
ARE YOU REALLY going to sit there and tell me teams conservatively game planned against the Redskins? Completely healthy - good teams - with high powered offenses -coservatively gameplanned to beat us 14-10 because they didnt want to get hurt for no reason cus beck and rex couldnt beat them anyway? Does that sound as brilliant as it did when you wrote it down as it does when you read someone else writing it down for you?


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[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;959990]And J.S. has more talent in Detroit by far[/QUOTE]

In all fairness He inherited an 0-16 team so if he has more talent than its because they did a better job of amassing that talent. I mean ill listen to the "mike inherited a shitshow" argument and i agree with it. The lions were 0-16 - so this is one time i dont want to hear about Mikes mess.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;960008]Thanks for reading the rosters too me. Our secondary is far and away worse than last year and if you are going to tell me it isnt than this conversation is going to go into the land of false premise where people say whatever they want and pigs fly and that becomes exhausting.
ARE YOU REALLY going to sit there and tell me teams conservatively game planned against the Redskins? Completely healthy - good teams - with high powered offenses -coservatively gameplanned to beat us 14-10 because they didnt want to get hurt for no reason cus beck and rex couldnt beat them anyway? Does that sound as brilliant as it did when you wrote it down as it does when you read someone else writing it down for you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Its far and away worse because teams are going for it this year. Had they gone for it last year, the defense would have been bottom 25 not high teens. Thats exactly what im saying. Our defense is the exact same except we switched out two safetys. One of which is still on the team and cant start over M. Williams.

Im surprised that you are claiming that a conservative game plan has never been tried in the entire history of the NFL. I guess pigs have been flying the whole time.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;960006] His first year they beat us. So your memory is a tad foggy too. [U]They ended that season winning four in a row. Than the next year 10-6. [/U]
[U]Lets do the math. 0 wins. Hire scwartz. 10 wins in year TWO. [/U]
What is mind boggling is that in your alternate reality you make the case as to why this isnt a turnaround but MS in his third year is on the rite track at 3-5?
Really?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Are you high? I said they beat us and yet you sit there and say my memory is foggy?....lol WoW. This conversation is brutal and pretty useless to be honest with you. Listen one more time. You claimed the Lions were the worst in football. I pointed out it was basically that same team that beat us. We ended their losing streak. So if they were the worst and beat us, what the **** does that make us? It makes even worse than the worst.


Also. In regards to the underlined.

[YT]WrjwaqZfjIY[/YT]
(thank you JR for this gem)

He was NOT 10-6 his second year. I posted the record of JS's tenure in Detroit and yet you still ****ed it up?... /facepalm