Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;959777]Just curious what your take on the train of thought that offenses didn't run it up on us because they believed we couldn't come back - thus artificially raising our defensive stats.[/quote]

Well in 2011, on average about 46% of an opponent's offensive plays were running plays. In 2012 it's around 36%.

In our 2011 losses, it was around 50%. 2012-41%

That tells just part of the story though because you'd probably need a quarter by quarter breakdown to get a stronger sense of just how passive/aggressive the opposing team's offense was

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;960030]Well in 2011, on average about 46% of an opponent's offensive plays were running plays. In 2012 it's around 36%.

In our 2011 losses, it was around 50%. 2012-41%

That tells just part of the story though because you'd probably need a quarter by quarter breakdown to get a stronger sense of just how passive/aggressive the opposing team's offense was[/quote]

Wait, statistics, facts and analysis. How could that be? I thought we were just going to accept that it was:

[quote=GTripp0012;959994]Completely fabricated. No basis in reality.[/quote]

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;960029]Are you high? I said they beat us and yet you sit there and say my memory is foggy?....lol WoW. This conversation is brutal and pretty useless to be honest with you. Listen one more time. You claimed the Lions were the worst in football. I pointed out it was basically that same team that beat us. We ended their losing streak. So if they were the worst and beat us, what the **** does that make us? It makes even worse than the worst.


Also. In regards to the underlined.

[YT]WrjwaqZfjIY[/YT]
(thank you JR for this gem)

He was NOT 10-6 his second year. I posted the record of JS's tenure in Detroit and yet you still ****ed it up?... /facepalm[/QUOTE]

I dont care that they beat us. Its about detroit making a turnaround. To go from 0-16 to the playoffs a couple years later is a friggin turnaround no matter how you dance around it. Jeez.

Edit: there is a marked improvement for three years witj JS in Detroit. Also alot of it was without Stafford but Culpepoer etc at qb. How in the hell are you gonna sit there and say he did not turn the detroit lions franchise around How stubborn. My God. If i could facepalm on my iphone it would be inserted several times here.
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[QUOTE=SmootSmack;960030]Well in 2011, on average about 46% of an opponent's offensive plays were running plays. In 2012 it's around 36%.

In our 2011 losses, it was around 50%. 2012-41%

That tells just part of the story though because you'd probably need a quarter by quarter breakdown to get a stronger sense of just how passive/aggressive the opposing team's offense was[/QUOTE]

SS do you agree with the fact that the aggressive play calling could have something to do with the fact that my dog could pass for 300 yards against this current secondary and not so much to do with the fact that teams only try to score 13 points against teams with Rex at qb. That is one of thee most ridiculous arguments i have ever heard in my entire life.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I think if you believe the opponent is incapable of scoring quickly and in bunches you may have a different offensive gameplan than you might if you think they are capable.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;960040]That is one of thee most ridiculous arguments i have ever heard in my entire [/quote]

Really? I think it seems pretty rational to me that a team's aggressiveness is tied to how many points their opponents have scored or are capable of scoring.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

This thread has gone on too long. Mods can we please close this?

Put it another way how many times previously did we have a 21 to 3 or 21 to 6 lead where the team needed to try and pass and score in order to beat us? Or how many times after a team took the lead did our offense regain the lead? Compare that with this year and our ability 2 compete in every game.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Give shanny one more yeaR. Thats all i can say.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;960047]This thread has gone on too long. Mods can we please close this?[/quote]

Well, like I said before, we would but some would accuse of us shutting down opposing thought (even though, contrary to belief, not all the mods agree with each other amongst ourselves).

I keep trying to just let this thread die..but it's like a phoenix

[QUOTE=FRPLG;960044]Really? I think it seems pretty rational to me that a team's aggressiveness is tied to how many points their opponents have scored or are capable of scoring.[/QUOTE]

Maybe in the fourth quarter when the game is in the bag but i cant believe anybody and Again you are gameplanning your offense to go run or pass for the most part. Who in their rite mind isnt going to pass against us no matter who our qb is.
Edit: long live the Phoenix

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[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;960047]This thread has gone on too long. Mods can we please close this?[/QUOTE]

Why? So it funnels all the shanny bashing into one place.


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[QUOTE=FRPLG;960044]Really? I think it seems pretty rational to me that a team's aggressiveness is tied to how many points their opponents have scored or are capable of scoring.[/QUOTE]

4 of the last 7 games we played last year teams scored 30 or more points against us. Dallas put up 27. That was after our inept offense already played and showed we were incapable of putting up points. Hmmmm.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;960054]4 of the last 7 games we played last year teams scored 30 or more points against us. Dallas put up 27. That was after our inept offense already played and showed we were incapable of putting up points. Hmmmm.


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How would you define aggressive/attacking playcalling? And do you think this year's defense is worse than last year's?

Well passing is usually a sign of aggressive attacking playcalling - though with our d i think that is just the "easy" way. I mean wouldnt you pass on us? Yes i think this years d is the worst i ever remember.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;960054][B]4 of the last 7 games we played last year teams scored 30 or more points against us. Dallas put up 27. That was after our inept offense already played and showed we were incapable of putting up points. Hmmmm.
[/B]

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Yeah, but our opponents were really, really conservative in those games. They didn't want to score 30+ points, it just happened!! :doh:

Just as Mike isn't a serious HC coach (anymore, just to give him the benefit of the doubt), his defenders lose the ability to make serious points.

10-6 record with a playoff appearance really isn't better than 5-11 record at the bottom of the division.

Teams didn't play hard against the Redskins until Mike wanted them to.

Give me a f*cking break. Some of you are embarrassing yourselves.

[QUOTE=The Goat;960057]Yeah, but our opponents were really, really conservative in those games. They didn't want to score 30+ points, it just happened!! :doh:

Just as Mike isn't a serious HC coach (anymore, just to give him the benefit of the doubt), his defenders lose the ability to make serious points.

10-6 record with a playoff appearance really isn't better than 5-11 record at the bottom of the division.

Teams didn't play hard against the Redskins until Mike wanted them to.

Give me a f*cking break. Some of you are embarrassing yourselves.[/QUOTE]

You know i usually try to remain neutral but wtf? The saints went 0-16 and than three years later were in the playoffs - and i am being told that is not a turnaround. Wow.
Teams were conservative playcalling last year against us. RG-3 and alfred morris are in essence the reason our defense sucks this year - that is some awesome logic. Just awesome.
Its like when one of my kids lies. I call them out so they make an excuse/ lie to cover up the first lie and it just snowballs until they dont know up from down. That is truely how i feel about arguing these two points.


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As irate as i am getting about the prior posts i just want to say thank God. Its taking my mind off what the hell is going on around me and the fact that in am nomAdic. So agree or disagree but thank you WP and all u guys for the outlet. Tomorrow i will be at a house that has power and cold beer and the Skins are on TV. Hope we conservatively win 72-0. ;)


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;960059]As irate as i am getting about the prior posts i just want to say thank God. Its taking my mind off what the hell is going on around me and the fact that in am nomAdic. So agree or disagree but thank you WP and all u guys for the outlet. Tomorrow i will be at a house that has power and cold beer and the Skins are on TV. Hope we conservatively win 72-0. ;)


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:food-smil

Today i mended my brothers fence and took a shitload of firewood out to the old folks in one of the retirement villages. Also in the process of gathering/ buying supplies to bring to the shelters for the real victims who are without homes let alone power or water.
Didnt mean to sound like i was sitting around waiting for the game.
Also figured i would pump alittle positive into this much maligned thread. Lol.


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[QUOTE=The Goat;960057]...

10-6 record with a playoff appearance really isn't better than 5-11 record at the bottom of the division. ...
[/QUOTE]

Just want to make sure we are on the same page. in the Lions 2nd year they were 6-10, we were 5-11. Do I see us going 10-6, no but I could see us sweeping dallas and splitting with philly, if we beat the panthers and browns that puts us at 8-8 and beating either the giants or ravens would be 9 wins. We of course could lose all the remaining games and then the progression thing wouldn't hold much water but for now you comparing 10-6 with 5-11isnt accurate either.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

well, you two can keep this alive if you want i guess, but the vote is now 127-7 against, so despite the massive protests, that train just aint moving in your direction.

Just to be clear i am not in favor of firing ms midseason and also am willing to let next yr happen. The reason i point alot of these things out is because other than the obvious reason that i want the redskins to win and that is squarely riding on mikes shoulders, there is not a whole lot of positives happening in the win column. For three yrs. i dont want to hear excuses or youth movement crap or blah blah blah - when he wins more than 5/6 games a yr ill be happy. I am shocked at the enthusiasm that goes hand in hand with defeat around here.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Home of the few....the proud.....the seven?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;960039]I dont care that they beat us. Its about detroit making a turnaround. To go from 0-16 to the playoffs a couple years later is a friggin turnaround no matter how you dance around it. Jeez.

Edit: there is a marked improvement for three years witj JS in Detroit. Also alot of it was without Stafford but Culpepoer etc at qb. How in the hell are you gonna sit there and say he did not turn the detroit lions franchise around How stubborn. My God. If i could facepalm on my iphone it would be inserted several times here.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

I think a lot of your facts are mixed up.

1) They made the playoffs in their 3rd year but had a lesser win % than Mike did his first two.

2) Culpepper wasn't there for much of that. He started 5 games in 2009. Stafford started 10 games in that same year. Also, Culpepper wasn't even on the team in 2010. Shaun Hill played most of 2010 when Stafford was injured. So your claim he did it much with Culpepper isn't correct whatsoever. Hell, even the claim he did it without MUCH of Stafford is false. Stafford played in 29 games out of 48 games during that span.


3) A turn around isn't having a good year and turning around and crapping the bed. They are currently 3-4. Does that sound like a team that has "turned it around"? They haven't even gotten to the core of their conference games yet, and and lost the 2 they have played. STill have GB to play twice, chicago once more and Vikings 1 more time. You think they come close to that 10-6 record of last year? Hell no.



If you think Jim Schartz has turned the Lions around, do you also think Tony Sparano turned Miami around?...lol After all they went 11-5 after the team won 1 game the year prior. Apparently this is your idea of turning it around.

When teams when consistently and are in the playoffs more often than not, then that would be what we call "turning it around". Other than that, it's fools gold.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;960050] I keep trying to just let this thread die..but it's like a phoenix[/quote]


[YT]UPw-3e_pzqU[/YT]

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;960057]Yeah, but our opponents were really, really conservative in those games. They didn't want to score 30+ points, it just happened!! :doh:

Just as Mike isn't a serious HC coach (anymore, just to give him the benefit of the doubt), his defenders lose the ability to make serious points.

10-6 record with a playoff appearance really isn't better than 5-11 record at the bottom of the division.

Teams didn't play hard against the Redskins until Mike wanted them to.

Give me a f*cking break. Some of you are embarrassing yourselves.[/quote]

Even when teams scored 21+ points against us last year they still ran more (I think around 55%) vs. when they score 21+ against us this year (41%). These are in losses. So teams ran against us more last year. I'm sure there were many reasons for their less aggressive approach. But I believe one of them was our own lack of offensive firepower.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;960054]4 of the last 7 games we played last year teams scored 30 or more points against us. Dallas put up 27. That was after our inept offense already played and showed we were incapable of putting up points. Hmmmm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

[quote=The Goat;960057]Yeah, but our opponents were really, really conservative in those games. They didn't want to score 30+ points, it just happened!! :doh:

Just as Mike isn't a serious HC coach (anymore, just to give him the benefit of the doubt), his defenders lose the ability to make serious points.

10-6 record with a playoff appearance really isn't better than 5-11 record at the bottom of the division.

Teams didn't play hard against the Redskins until Mike wanted them to.

Give me a f*cking break. Some of you are embarrassing yourselves.[/quote]

If the goal is to prove that our defense sucked last year as well, then congratulations... You have proven my point for me. Or did you two get confused as to what point I was making in the first place?

The defense sucked every bit as bad last year as it does this year. The secondary is every bit as bad if not worse. Exactly who on our secondary last year do you have faith in to do the job this year. Atogwe is still available, the other three are still on the team.

If you can come up with a better reason as to why teams chose to run against a defense that plays the run better than the pass, then by all means put it out there. But the whole D Hall, Wilson, Atogwe, and Doughty secondary being one of the greatest ever doesnt work.

You two are still stuck on conservative play calling means intentionally playing bad. Of course you are also stuck on our secondary (D Hall, Wilson, Atogwe, and Doughty) being great last year. And you talk of other people embarrassing themselves.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;960073]I think a lot of your facts are mixed up.

1) They made the playoffs in their 3rd year but had a lesser win % than Mike did his first two.

2) Culpepper wasn't there for much of that. He started 5 games in 2009. Stafford started 10 games in that same year. Also, Culpepper wasn't even on the team in 2010. Shaun Hill played most of 2010 when Stafford was injured. So your claim he did it much with Culpepper isn't correct whatsoever. Hell, even the claim he did it without MUCH of Stafford is false. Stafford played in 29 games out of 48 games during that span.


3) A turn around isn't having a good year and turning around and crapping the bed. They are currently 3-4. Does that sound like a team that has "turned it around"? They haven't even gotten to the core of their conference games yet, and and lost the 2 they have played. STill have GB to play twice, chicago once more and Vikings 1 more time. You think they come close to that 10-6 record of last year? Hell no.



If you think Jim Schartz has turned the Lions around, do you also think Tony Sparano turned Miami around?...lol After all they went 11-5 after the team won 1 game the year prior. Apparently this is your idea of turning it around.

When teams when consistently and are in the playoffs more often than not, then that would be what we call "turning it around". Other than that, it's fools gold.[/QUOTE]

All i had to read was the part about culpepper. Check my mixed up facts again and you will notice an etc after culpeppers name. Etc as in others.
Also JS had 16 wins during years two and three combined. More than MS has total so far. And JS inherited arguably thee worst team ever. They were 0-16 the year before. The year they beat us was JS first year. The year before we i believe we beat them. If not we would have.
If we win four more games this year their win totals will be equal for their first three years.
You think playing 29 out of 48 games without ur number one pick at QB isnt playing alot without him???? 40% missed games isnt alot to you? Wow. You are cloudy and confused bro. Not me.


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[QUOTE=SmootSmack;960075]Even when teams scored 21+ points against us last year they still ran more (I think around 55%) vs. when they score 21+ against us this year (41%). These are in losses. So teams ran against us more last year. I'm sure there were many reasons for their less aggressive approach. But I believe one of them was our own lack of offensive firepower.[/QUOTE]

I believe it was clearly our less horrible secondary.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Is there another coach who would have this team in the playoffs with the same defense, coaching staff, injuries?

No

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

atogwe is still available, we can get that band back together, yet choose not to.

obviously the only answer is firing mike shannahan.

and to save everyone some time:
[quote=The Goat] ^^^ Strong Post[/quote]

thank you, that is all.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;960077]All i had to read was the part about culpepper. Check my mixed up facts again and you will notice an etc after culpeppers name. Etc as in others.
Also JS had 16 wins during years two and three combined. More than MS has total so far. And JS inherited arguably thee worst team ever. They were 0-16 the year before. The year they beat us was JS first year. The year before we i believe we beat them. If not we would have.
If we win four more games this year their win totals will be equal for their first three years.
You think playing 29 out of 48 games without ur number one pick at QB isnt playing alot without him???? 40% missed games isnt alot to you? Wow. You are cloudy and confused bro. Not me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Considering they won 2 games the year Culpepper was there, he didn't win ANY with Culpepper. Again with your facts. Even with Shaun Hill, he went a measley 6-10. Improvement eh?...lol

Also, last time I checked, 60% > 40%. When you say he did much of it without Stafford, it's pretty apparent you are saying he turned the tide with a shit QB for a majority of that time. Fact is, he was 2-11 and 6-10. The 3rd year he was 10-6 with Stafford. Those 2 years aren't near as bad as Mikes. Also, what is your excuse for his 3-4 season this year? What happend to that "turn around" in Detroit?


Is that what you want? Have one good year than go back to being shit again? Really? Is that your idea of a turn around? Still didn't get your answer on Tony Sparano. Think he turned the Dolphins around?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Chico23231;960079]Is there another coach who would have this team in the playoffs with the same defense, coaching staff, injuries?

No[/quote]


It's funny you mention this. Remember that article detailing the behind the scenes of what went down the year Zorn imploded? How Danny and crew flew out to Denver to talk to Mike. Remember what Mike told Danny? He told him flat out that even if he stepped in midway through the season, it wouldn't even change much. Why? Because Mike knew Zorn had a aging roster with no depth.

Even great coaches need talent to be great.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

As previously said, I reckon by end of this season most of us (more than half) will be ready to move on from Mike. I hope otherwise because we're winning, but there is absolutely no evidence to believe this regime is making the team more competitive. The folks who try to make that argument end up in ridiculous diatribes about 10-6 vs 5-11 etc etc. Or they just try to diminish other franchises/coaches that have considerably improved within three years of taking over.

I'll say the same thing I did last week, the results always speak for themselves. Most fans, regardless of the sport, see winning as the result that matters most. I fit in that group, and do so unabashedly.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Being realistic, this franchise is at least two full offseasons away from building a winner. The trade for RG3 was absolutely the key move to give fans a foundation of hope, but there are still a ton of other holes to fill. IMO, the last thing this franchise needs is another head coaching change. I would prefer to limit Shanny's power on the personnel side, and bring in a GM that has a real say during the offseason.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;960050]Well, like I said before, we would but some would accuse of us shutting down opposing thought (even though, contrary to belief, not all the mods agree with each other amongst ourselves).

I keep trying to just let this thread die..but it's like a phoenix[/quote]

You can do it...you have the technology.

[QUOTE=Chico23231;960079]Is there another coach who would have this team in the playoffs with the same defense, coaching staff, injuries?

No[/QUOTE]

He chose the staff, he chose the defense. Every team has injuries.


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[QUOTE=NC_Skins;960081]Considering they won 2 games the year Culpepper was there, he didn't win ANY with Culpepper. Again with your facts. Even with Shaun Hill, he went a measley 6-10. Improvement eh?...lol

Also, last time I checked, 60% > 40%. When you say he did much of it without Stafford, it's pretty apparent you are saying he turned the tide with a shit QB for a majority of that time. Fact is, he was 2-11 and 6-10. The 3rd year he was 10-6 with Stafford. Those 2 years aren't near as bad as Mikes. Also, what is your excuse for his 3-4 season this year? What happend to that "turn around" in Detroit?


Is that what you want? Have one good year than go back to being shit again? Really? Is that your idea of a turn around? Still didn't get your answer on Tony Sparano. Think he turned the Dolphins around?[/QUOTE]

Theres that were losing alot because were doing it the rite way and building a dynasty. Lol.
Philbin seems to be doing a pretty good job with the dolphins. Wtf do you keep asking about sporano for? He wasnt one of the guys mentioned in the original post about turn it around coaches. You must have a reason though and im sure whatever that reason is will mean that the skins are on the rite track so go ahead with it?


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[QUOTE=Chico23231;960079]Is there another coach who would have this team in the playoffs with the same defense, coaching staff, injuries?

No[/QUOTE]

Chico in the post game thread you were killing the "Shanny regime". And i quote , "just another game in the Shanny regime-" - than you said something about how him and the staff and whole team is terrible. Why are you now defending him?


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