[QUOTE=LadyT]I have serious doubts that either Ramsey or Gardner will ever develop into the type of players the team can rely upon. Neither is a rookie, though they both continue to play like one - particularly Ramsey.

Ramsey is turning into one of those players that initially looked so good (on paper), before he started playing, but was never able to translate that into success in the NFL. Shades of Heath Shuler!

Gardner is just disgusting - one good play and several bad ones. He will continue to cost this team in every game. He needs to ride the bench - start McCants or Thrash or anyone else but him. He has done this game after game after game. What does it take for the coaches to finally admit what we all see?[/QUOTE]

LadyT, Ramsey has only played 16 games in two years so in essence he is still a rookie.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]So what do you think the solution is? Trade Ramsey and get what? I do agree with you, but the problems we had are very, very fixable. Ramsey knows what he did, and I'm pretty sure Gardner does too.

Portis had two fumbles, and that too was a lack of focus but nobody says anything about him. Coles dropped a huge pass that would've kept our drive going and no one has said anything about him either.

My point is, is that the WHOLE OFFENSE is at fault, not individuals. The o-line didn't do a good job of opening up holes for Portis or protecting the QB. Brunell fumbled, Ramsey threw 3 pickles, Portis had two fumbles, and a bullshit penalty in the end zone that made us kick from our 20! Gardner and Coles BOTH dropped crucial passes. The whole offense played poorly.....[/QUOTE]

First of all, seek and ye shall find the QB for this team. There are always going to be eligible veteran QBs to pick up. Meanwhile, let's circle the wagon and play Hasselbeck until Brunell is healthy. Hasselbeck can run an efficient offense with protection. I don't care if Hasselbeck isn't putting up big numbers his first game, just run a turnover free offense. It's apparent that Brunell doesn't have the flash he showed in Jacksonville, but Brunell could play turnover free if given enough time to throw. This QB situation is fixable this year. I'm just angry that all of this as to be resolved 7 days before Dallas.

You're right the offense is at fault as a whole. The offense has given up 2 touchdowns already. The reverse play we ran yesterday was almost a fumble. Brunell almost threw the ball to Portis instead of handing it to him.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]First of all, seek and ye shall find the QB for this team. There are always going to be eligible veteran QBs to pick up. Meanwhile, let's circle the wagon and play Hasselbeck until Brunell is healthy. Hasselbeck can run an efficient offense with protection. I don't care if Hasselbeck isn't putting up big numbers his first game, just run a turnover free offense. It's apparent that Brunell doesn't have the flash he showed in Jacksonville, but Brunell could play turnover free if given enough time to throw. This QB situation is fixable this year. I'm just angry that all of this as to be resolved 7 days before Dallas.[/QUOTE]

Sunra, trust me dawg I feel your anger. But let's try to be patient and trust Gibbs on the decisions he makes. I'm Hasselbeck fan myself, and I wouldn't mind seeing play some this year, but I don't think Gibbs is making any drastic changes after our first loss.

I believe in our staff and I am sure the right decisions will be made when they have to. Until then, I'm just looking forward to better performance against the Cowboys. Gibbs will have them ready.....

[QUOTE=SUNRA]You're right the offense is at fault as a whole. The offense has given up 2 touchdowns already. The reverse play we ran yesterday was almost a fumble. Brunell almost threw the ball to Portis instead of handing it to him.[/QUOTE]

Another play to point out:

When Brunell threw the INT to Fred Robbins.....if Brunell would've had some time to get that throw out that play would've been a huge gain. It was a fake reverse screen to Portis, and I swear we had them fooled for a while before Brunell got pressured.....

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]LadyT, Ramsey has only played 16 games in two years so in essence he is still a rookie.[/QUOTE]

In essence he is not a rookie. Rookie means first year. Not first bad year you get another chance because you're learning a new system. Ramsey has not matured. There is a criteria that all coaches have for their players and if you check off all of the negatives versus the postives , it doesn't look very good for Ramsey at all!

[QUOTE=SUNRA]In essence he is not a rookie. Rookie means first year. Not first bad year you get another chance because you're learning a new system. Ramsey has not matured. There is a criteria that all coaches have for their players and if you check off all of the negatives versus the postives , it doesn't look very good for Ramsey at all![/QUOTE]

You really think the coaches are judging Ramsey by his performances last year with a team that couldn't protect him? After being coached by a college level coaching staff?

My goodness. One loss and we're tearing down the franchise? That's what got us into this mess! Stick with your folks, let Gibbs and Co. coach them FOR A FEW SEASONS and then see what you get. This is the second game. Have a little toughness. Stick with it!

[QUOTE=JWsleep]My goodness. One loss and we're tearing down the franchise? That's what got us into this mess! Stick with your folks, let Gibbs and Co. coach them FOR A FEW SEASONS and then see what you get. This is the second game. Have a little toughness. Stick with it![/QUOTE]

:thumb:

Thanks JW.

[quote]Meanwhile, let's circle the wagon and play Hasselbeck until Brunell is healthy. Hasselbeck can run an efficient offense with protection. I don't care if Hasselbeck isn't putting up big numbers his first game, just run a turnover free offense[/quote]
you realize out of all our QBs, hasselbeck [b]HAS THE HIGHEST INT %[/b], it would be [b]worse[/b] than either MB or PR, you really need to chill on your hating, its one bad game... TH has only had [b]one[/b] decent showing against 3rd stringers, but besdies that, none of our QBs have looked very good, and he's looked the worst.

if hasselbeck goes in, it means our season is done.
TH had 2 ints in preseason (one in 17 throws), MB (one in 46) and PR (one in 58) had 1... last year, TH was the [b]only[/b] one of our QBs to throw more ints than TDs last year... he isn't bad, but he is most definately not error proof.

Ramsey Again
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]LadyT, Ramsey has only played 16 games in two years so in essence he is still a rookie.[/QUOTE]
True, he's only played 16 games and one could argue as to whether he's a rookie or not. To me, once you've played one season, you're no longer a rookie.

But that aside, the biggest concern I have is that I've seen no improvement from him, absolutely none. If anything he looks worse than he did 2 years ago, when he was a rookie, by anyone's definition.

He's making the same mistakes and making more of them. He looks totally unsure of himself and that feeling is communicated to the team, consciously or not.

To me, that is the real reason many of us are so concerned about his future as a starting QB. We've not seen any kind of progression from him, just a regression.

I think we should frame SUNRA's Ramsey comment to hand back to him when Ramsey lifts the Super Bowl trophy.

One game, we're all annoyed but that may serve as a reminder that the offense is a work in progress. Calm down, please.

How many games did it take for terry bradshaw to come through for the steelers?? lets say 4 seasons. give ramsey a damn break. no loyalty with some of you all, its crazy. Pat just had to change a whole playbook, none the less play for Steve Shittier and take a freaking pounding. He's running on instincts that he learned since he came into the NFL. even if he sucks the rest of this season, give him a chance. 1 or 2 more seasons. The guy has heart, and he takes the blame, and as well, has a rocket arm. Gibbs will show him how to play in the NFL, but it does take time.

AND.... if gardner caught that touchdown pass that he dropped, would we hear as much complaints? NO

I missed the game, but judging from the posts I've read it was quite an unimpressive showing all the way around.

First, I guess this goes to show that Gibbs is not Mr. Quick Fix. We were 5-11 last season and while some of us seem to have the Answers (Trade Ramsey! Cut Brunell! Start Hasselbeck! Start McCants!), the question hasn't really ever been posed.

I've seen Hasselbeck play and I wasn't that impressed. Maybe he's a helluva qb, but after watching the Dallas game last season I don't ever want to see that guy touch the field as a starter again. I don't care if he played like Joe Montana after that, he was as inept as any qb I've ever seen in a Redskins uniform and that includes Jeff George when he was back there ducking and hiding after taking the snap.

Gibbs offense takes a while to come together, all you had to do is go back to his first tenure to get that. I don't know if I've ever seen a coach come in and install a new system and get immediate results. There's a reason that the defenses are ahead of the offenses early in the season, offense takes time. This isn't the rec league at your local Y, this is the NFL and you need continuity to be successful. We've got Chris "This Way Please" Samuels, Dockery, Coles, Rod "Was That For Me?" Gardner and Randy Thomas back from last season.
:banghead: Go ahead and start calling for Hasselbeck and more Betts and McCants if you want. I'm with Gibbs. If he says Ramsey is the starter, then Ramsey is the guy who's going to go out and beat Dallas. If he says Hasselbeck is the guy, then he's the guy. But you don't win in the NFL by changing horses midstream. Hasselbeck is a cool third qb, but let's not get it twisted, he is most definitely not Tom Brady. Just thinking about Hasselbeck brings back memories of last year's Dallas game and :vomit-smi my bad.

[quote]AND.... if gardner caught that touchdown pass that he dropped, would we hear as much complaints?[/quote]

yeah, cause he still dropped a ton, and fumbling possession WRs aren't very common problems... probably not as vitriolic of a response though...