For those that want Ramsey traded or Hasselbeck to start:

That Guy · 09-19-2004, 11:29 PM

I posted this in another thread, but since it might get missed there:

Quote:

brunell - 1 TD, 2 TOs, 92 yards.... TOs lead to 10 points
portis - 1 TD, 2 TOs, 98 yards... TOs lead to 7 points
ramsey - 1 TD, 3 TOs, 142 yards... TOs lead to 0 points

which one is really worse? brunell couldnt move the ball downfield, making his TOs WORSE, though towards the end, NY wasn't really scrambling to get down field...

in fact all three of ramsey's ints were at the NYG 10 yard line or further back (10, 9, and 0)... driving 90 yards is harder than 30-40, ramsey's arm still helps.

the QB play was AWFUL, but if you want to cut ramsey, there's two other people you may want to consider axing as well.

As for gardner, i think he all agree he cost us a lot of important 1st downs.

and I know ramsey telegraphs plays and seems to refuse to throw it away, but those TOs aren't any worse than brunell's play today.

skinsfanthru&thru · 09-20-2004, 01:48 AM

what about posting the lost points from ramseys turnovers with them all coming when we were close to scoring? ramsey had one good throw from what I saw(the pass to gardner down the field)(the game got to a point where it was hard to watch it 100%) and all three ints were terrible decisions on his part. Yes brunnels int was a very bad decision, but the fumble was primarily the lines fault for not even giving him 3 seconds in the pocket on that play. I don't know how u could say just because ramsey drove down the field that his errors weren't worse than brunnels cuz just kicking field goals on two of the possesions that he threw away could have kept the game going. All turnover are bad but the ones made in or near the red zone are game killers. the blame of the offensive woes in this game don't rest on just brunnel, ramsey, portis, gardner or any of the coaches cuz there's a shitload of blame to go around after todays game. it does suck that what we once thought was one of our solid strengths(qb) has quickly turned into somewhat of a weakness already.

That Guy · 09-20-2004, 01:54 AM

the problem is brunell didn't get to the end zone when he turned it over, he didn't even get close, cause he kept throwing 4 yard passes. and brunell's turnovers definately ended any chances of pointing up points too... ramsey got them in position a couple times... i don't think its fair to call brunell better just cause he couldn't get to the red zone after the first drive... ramsey GOT there... and he also blew it...

QB isn't looking like a strength... brunells arm is just weak. ramsey is error prone.

jrocx69 · 09-20-2004, 03:17 AM

6 or 7 dropped passes probably wouldnt have caused those ints, or maybe the o-line gets the blame for not protecting worth a damn, or maybe its the coaching staff for calling those plays, .... who knows, its a team loss. offense just sucked and every damn one of them were to blame. Ramsey, PORTIS!, Brunell, o-line, and Gardner. Portis really pissed me off today with his "affraid to get hit running". i seen him literally give up on a few plays when he could have used some speed or jukes to get around them, but no, he falls over. Anyway, it was a team loss, and the whole offense is to blame. Defense did great, even on the 38 yard TD pass. Bowen just had way to much room to cover and no help on the inside. he gave it hell though, trying to knock the ball loose after seeing there was no chance to bat it down.

BIGREDSKINFAN63 · 09-20-2004, 07:27 AM

ramsey does not seem to be able to adjust his play to gibbs system,brunnel does.i admit they all looked like shit today,but i am telling you as long as ramsey keeps floating the ball downfield and hitting wide open safeties and cbs on the other team
gibbs will keep his ass on the bench.and he should,nobody ever said MB was the league's best qb and he does some crazy things,but not like ramsey.if brunnell can't play next monday night and ramsey plays like he did sunday,i would not be surprised to see hassellback play.

joethiesmanfan · 09-20-2004, 08:37 AM

2 things are obvisous to me. Bowen is good blitzing but as a coverage safety he sucks. That was a simple post pattern he saw it coming he just didnt have the ability to stop it. and Ramsey can go to hell as far as I'm concerned I am willing to have Hasselback in there. Yeah Brunnel had a bad day and so did Portis but Ramsey gave up three picks in the red zone. RED ZONE which means they were worse. especailly when we could have kicked field goals and tied or won the game. Yeah Gardner had some drops and Portis fumbled and Brunnel looked stupid but Ramsey quit and Bowen just does not have the ability point blank heart counts but if you can see a post route developing and cant get to it cause you too slow no amount of heart is gonna help you out. I kniow this board hates Gardner so blame him but Ramsey never gets blame but if you think about it Ramsey aint never done nothing to deserve any kind of loyalty.i dont know what Portis was doing but anyway we were still in the game to the end but Ramsey made sure we couldnt win it. Its not about turnovers its about how your team reacts to turnovers. How do you bounce back the defense stayed strong and Ramsey kept driving those 3 INTS like knives into my chest.

Hogskin · 09-20-2004, 09:22 AM

Bowen does fine. The problem on that one was the coverage scheme. our SLOWEST DB (Bowen) was on their FASTEST WR (Carter). That is always a recipe for disaster.

MTK · 09-20-2004, 09:27 AM

Nobody is getting cut and if Hasselbeck starts then our season is definitely in trouble.

It's going to take some time for things to fall in to place offensively, we've got to be patient and have faith.

Defensewins · 09-20-2004, 10:35 AM

Matty72 you might want to change your "Giants: victim #2". It's a bit outdated.
I am really superstitious, so don't get upset at my next statement:
I really hate when anybody on my team or anybody that roots for my team guarantees a win. It is a huge jinx. Everytime a teamate or fellow redskins fan guarantee's a win my team ends up losing.
Someone posted last week that because team A beat up on team B (giants). And we beat team A. We should easily beat the Giants. It does not work that way.
I replied to that post that in today's NFL any team can lose to any team.
I don't care the matchup.

Redskins_P · 09-20-2004, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Nobody is getting cut and if Hasselbeck starts then our season is definitely in trouble.

It's going to take some time for things to fall in to place offensively, we've got to be patient and have faith.

I agree with Matty. Everyone wants to trade Ramsey, and Gardner all of a sudden. It was one game! I swear last week everyone was giving Gardner props for the catches he made, and some even thought that he would become the primary receiver for this offense? Now, he drops a couple of passes and he needs to get cut or traded? Let's be patient guys, this a new system and everyone is still adjusting. Be thankul that at least we have a defense that has kept us in the last two games. Last year we would've folded after the first couple of turnovers.

Lets hope that this was an eye opener for our guys and they will come Monday night with a chip on their shoulder against Dallas. I bet if we win next week with Ramsey starting, then I guess we're trading Brunell, right?

SUNRA · 09-20-2004, 11:07 AM

Matty, if you think things could get worse with Hasselbeck in the game, just let the 5 turnovers between the QB's against a weak secondary sink in a little.

I don't care what Gibbs, you or I suggest to Ramsey this comatose QB will not throw the ball away for nothing. You would think a young talented QB would understand a very basic technique as a QB. That bull about Ramsey being the future of this team was a joke from the jump. He didn't believe it and neither did I.

Hasselbeck must be given a chance to execute and run this offense until Brunell gets healthy. What do we have to lose? We've already lost to the Cowboys. Now let's get a win with Hasselbeck in the game. Play a conservative ground attack with short screen passes to either side. McCants has to be activated. Hasselbeck can throw at least 30 to 40 yds down field. That first INT that Ramsey threw in the endzone was a pathetic. As strong as he is, why did he loft a short pass in the air with no worry even though there was 2 defenders on Coles? Man this is plain stupid. I'll give Hasselbeck 1 INT against Dallas . But 3 INTs in 1 and half quarters is sad. We had 20 first downs. Count them 20 first downs. We had four opportunities in the fourth quarter alone and we still lost.

Like Ponchus Pilate, I'm washing my hands of the saviour named Ramsey.

SUNRA · 09-20-2004, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

I agree with Matty. Everyone wants to trade Ramsey, and Gardner all of a sudden. It was one game! I swear last week everyone was giving Gardner props for the catches he made, and some even thought that he would become the primary receiver for this offense? Now, he drops a couple of passes and he needs to get cut or traded? Let's be patient guys, this a new system and everyone is still adjusting. Be thankul that at least we have a defense that has kept us in the last two games. Last year we would've folded after the first couple of turnovers.

Lets hope that this was an eye opener for our guys and they will come Monday night with a chip on their shoulder against Dallas. I bet if we win next week with Ramsey starting, then I guess we're trading Brunell, right?

This one game was the culmination of 2 seasons with these bums. How many times will we use the excuse it's a new system? The problem isn't knowledge of the system. I didn't see Gardner running wrong routes. I saw Gardner and Ramsey not focused on what they were doing and panicking under pressure. The problems with these morons is EXECUTION! Execution will make a busted play look good. No consistency, no TDs. 20 first downs for us. 20 points for the Giants.

Please no more excuses for Ramsey. He's done for the season. Enough said.

LadyT · 09-20-2004, 11:31 AM

I have serious doubts that either Ramsey or Gardner will ever develop into the type of players the team can rely upon. Neither is a rookie, though they both continue to play like one - particularly Ramsey.

Ramsey is turning into one of those players that initially looked so good (on paper), before he started playing, but was never able to translate that into success in the NFL. Shades of Heath Shuler!

Gardner is just disgusting - one good play and several bad ones. He will continue to cost this team in every game. He needs to ride the bench - start McCants or Thrash or anyone else but him. He has done this game after game after game. What does it take for the coaches to finally admit what we all see?

SkinsRock · 09-20-2004, 12:23 PM

It was one game. We're 1-1. Joe Gibbs is the head coach. I have faith that they will get it together. Practically everyone said the D would probably have to carry the offense through the first part of the season, and everyone was right. Yes, it was a horrendous performance with 7 turnovers, but this will be a learning experience for this team and a HUGE motivation factor, especially going into Dallas week...not to mention for the rest of the season.
Ramsey will get better. Hopefully it will be as a back-up, with Brunell getting healthy this week. If not, Joe Gibbs and Co. are about 1,000 times better to prepare him that the previous regime. He has the talent and the smarts, he just needs more time and/or experience working in his first pro offense.
I agree with Matty, Hasselbeck is NOT the answer! If Brunell can't go, Ramsey is the next best bet. As I said above, he has the ability and I have faith in the staff to prepare him to play well.
Gardner will lose his spot, if not this week, then within the next few weeks. He just drops way too many passes. Gibbs will not stand for it, especially with the quality WR's like Thrash and McCants behind him. McCants needs to play. He is the big, strong clutch receiver that Gardner is supposed to be. As for a trade, it won't happen, but I bet Rod will be gone after the season.

Redskins_P · 09-20-2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

This one game was the culmination of 2 seasons with these bums. How many times will we use the excuse it's a new system? The problem isn't knowledge of the system. I didn't see Gardner running wrong routes. I saw Gardner and Ramsey not focused on what they were doing and panicking under pressure. The problems with these morons is EXECUTION! Execution will make a busted play look good. No consistency, no TDs. 20 first downs for us. 20 points for the Giants.

Please no more excuses for Ramsey. He's done for the season. Enough said.

So what do you think the solution is? Trade Ramsey and get what? I do agree with you, but the problems we had are very, very fixable. Ramsey knows what he did, and I'm pretty sure Gardner does too.

Portis had two fumbles, and that too was a lack of focus but nobody says anything about him. Coles dropped a huge pass that would've kept our drive going and no one has said anything about him either.

My point is, is that the WHOLE OFFENSE is at fault, not individuals. The o-line didn't do a good job of opening up holes for Portis or protecting the QB. Brunell fumbled, Ramsey threw 3 pickles, Portis had two fumbles, and a bullshit penalty in the end zone that made us kick from our 20! Gardner and Coles BOTH dropped crucial passes. The whole offense played poorly.....

09-20-2004, 07:27 AM	#5
BIGREDSKINFAN63 Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: bassett-va Age: 61 Posts: 289	ramsey does not seem to be able to adjust his play to gibbs system,brunnel does.i admit they all looked like shit today,but i am telling you as long as ramsey keeps floating the ball downfield and hitting wide open safeties and cbs on the other team gibbs will keep his ass on the bench.and he should,nobody ever said MB was the league's best qb and he does some crazy things,but not like ramsey.if brunnell can't play next monday night and ramsey plays like he did sunday,i would not be surprised to see hassellback play. __________________ "7 days without the redskins, makes one weak!!!"

09-20-2004, 09:22 AM	#7
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 83 Posts: 659	Bowen does fine. The problem on that one was the coverage scheme. our SLOWEST DB (Bowen) was on their FASTEST WR (Carter). That is always a recipe for disaster. __________________ John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc. Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

09-20-2004, 11:07 AM	#11
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	Matty, if you think things could get worse with Hasselbeck in the game, just let the 5 turnovers between the QB's against a weak secondary sink in a little. I don't care what Gibbs, you or I suggest to Ramsey this comatose QB will not throw the ball away for nothing. You would think a young talented QB would understand a very basic technique as a QB. That bull about Ramsey being the future of this team was a joke from the jump. He didn't believe it and neither did I. Hasselbeck must be given a chance to execute and run this offense until Brunell gets healthy. What do we have to lose? We've already lost to the Cowboys. Now let's get a win with Hasselbeck in the game. Play a conservative ground attack with short screen passes to either side. McCants has to be activated. Hasselbeck can throw at least 30 to 40 yds down field. That first INT that Ramsey threw in the endzone was a pathetic. As strong as he is, why did he loft a short pass in the air with no worry even though there was 2 defenders on Coles? Man this is plain stupid. I'll give Hasselbeck 1 INT against Dallas . But 3 INTs in 1 and half quarters is sad. We had 20 first downs. Count them 20 first downs. We had four opportunities in the fourth quarter alone and we still lost. Like Ponchus Pilate, I'm washing my hands of the saviour named Ramsey. __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

09-20-2004, 11:31 AM	#13
LadyT Special Teams Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 219	Real Concerns w/ Ramsey and Gardner I have serious doubts that either Ramsey or Gardner will ever develop into the type of players the team can rely upon. Neither is a rookie, though they both continue to play like one - particularly Ramsey. Ramsey is turning into one of those players that initially looked so good (on paper), before he started playing, but was never able to translate that into success in the NFL. Shades of Heath Shuler! Gardner is just disgusting - one good play and several bad ones. He will continue to cost this team in every game. He needs to ride the bench - start McCants or Thrash or anyone else but him. He has done this game after game after game. What does it take for the coaches to finally admit what we all see?

09-20-2004, 12:23 PM	#14
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	Don't overreact, people... It was one game. We're 1-1. Joe Gibbs is the head coach. I have faith that they will get it together. Practically everyone said the D would probably have to carry the offense through the first part of the season, and everyone was right. Yes, it was a horrendous performance with 7 turnovers, but this will be a learning experience for this team and a HUGE motivation factor, especially going into Dallas week...not to mention for the rest of the season. Ramsey will get better. Hopefully it will be as a back-up, with Brunell getting healthy this week. If not, Joe Gibbs and Co. are about 1,000 times better to prepare him that the previous regime. He has the talent and the smarts, he just needs more time and/or experience working in his first pro offense. I agree with Matty, Hasselbeck is NOT the answer! If Brunell can't go, Ramsey is the next best bet. As I said above, he has the ability and I have faith in the staff to prepare him to play well. Gardner will lose his spot, if not this week, then within the next few weeks. He just drops way too many passes. Gibbs will not stand for it, especially with the quality WR's like Thrash and McCants behind him. McCants needs to play. He is the big, strong clutch receiver that Gardner is supposed to be. As for a trade, it won't happen, but I bet Rod will be gone after the season.

09-20-2004, 01:48 AM	#2
skinsfanthru&thru Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 44 Posts: 3,813	what about posting the lost points from ramseys turnovers with them all coming when we were close to scoring? ramsey had one good throw from what I saw(the pass to gardner down the field)(the game got to a point where it was hard to watch it 100%) and all three ints were terrible decisions on his part. Yes brunnels int was a very bad decision, but the fumble was primarily the lines fault for not even giving him 3 seconds in the pocket on that play. I don't know how u could say just because ramsey drove down the field that his errors weren't worse than brunnels cuz just kicking field goals on two of the possesions that he threw away could have kept the game going. All turnover are bad but the ones made in or near the red zone are game killers. the blame of the offensive woes in this game don't rest on just brunnel, ramsey, portis, gardner or any of the coaches cuz there's a shitload of blame to go around after todays game. it does suck that what we once thought was one of our solid strengths(qb) has quickly turned into somewhat of a weakness already.

09-20-2004, 01:54 AM	#3
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,553	the problem is brunell didn't get to the end zone when he turned it over, he didn't even get close, cause he kept throwing 4 yard passes. and brunell's turnovers definately ended any chances of pointing up points too... ramsey got them in position a couple times... i don't think its fair to call brunell better just cause he couldn't get to the red zone after the first drive... ramsey GOT there... and he also blew it... QB isn't looking like a strength... brunells arm is just weak. ramsey is error prone.

09-20-2004, 03:17 AM	#4
jrocx69 Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dallas Age: 43 Posts: 461	6 or 7 dropped passes probably wouldnt have caused those ints, or maybe the o-line gets the blame for not protecting worth a damn, or maybe its the coaching staff for calling those plays, .... who knows, its a team loss. offense just sucked and every damn one of them were to blame. Ramsey, PORTIS!, Brunell, o-line, and Gardner. Portis really pissed me off today with his "affraid to get hit running". i seen him literally give up on a few plays when he could have used some speed or jukes to get around them, but no, he falls over. Anyway, it was a team loss, and the whole offense is to blame. Defense did great, even on the 38 yard TD pass. Bowen just had way to much room to cover and no help on the inside. he gave it hell though, trying to knock the ball loose after seeing there was no chance to bat it down.

09-20-2004, 08:37 AM	#6
joethiesmanfan The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,163	2 things are obvisous to me. Bowen is good blitzing but as a coverage safety he sucks. That was a simple post pattern he saw it coming he just didnt have the ability to stop it. and Ramsey can go to hell as far as I'm concerned I am willing to have Hasselback in there. Yeah Brunnel had a bad day and so did Portis but Ramsey gave up three picks in the red zone. RED ZONE which means they were worse. especailly when we could have kicked field goals and tied or won the game. Yeah Gardner had some drops and Portis fumbled and Brunnel looked stupid but Ramsey quit and Bowen just does not have the ability point blank heart counts but if you can see a post route developing and cant get to it cause you too slow no amount of heart is gonna help you out. I kniow this board hates Gardner so blame him but Ramsey never gets blame but if you think about it Ramsey aint never done nothing to deserve any kind of loyalty.i dont know what Portis was doing but anyway we were still in the game to the end but Ramsey made sure we couldnt win it. Its not about turnovers its about how your team reacts to turnovers. How do you bounce back the defense stayed strong and Ramsey kept driving those 3 INTS like knives into my chest.

09-20-2004, 09:27 AM	#8
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,569	Nobody is getting cut and if Hasselbeck starts then our season is definitely in trouble. It's going to take some time for things to fall in to place offensively, we've got to be patient and have faith.

09-20-2004, 10:35 AM	#9
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,749	Matty72 you might want to change your "Giants: victim #2". It's a bit outdated. I am really superstitious, so don't get upset at my next statement: I really hate when anybody on my team or anybody that roots for my team guarantees a win. It is a huge jinx. Everytime a teamate or fellow redskins fan guarantee's a win my team ends up losing. Someone posted last week that because team A beat up on team B (giants). And we beat team A. We should easily beat the Giants. It does not work that way. I replied to that post that in today's NFL any team can lose to any team. I don't care the matchup.

For those that want Ramsey traded or Hasselbeck to start:

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