Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Alvin#40;225646]Check my previous posts. I am pleased(well not at the moment) that we are 2-3. Was my preseason prediction, 5 weeks, to get this offense rolling. Hehe...maybe a different outcome week 4, but i fully expected to lose to Dallas and G-men away...well maybe not G-men as they in disaray, and not score 3 points. Anyway, we suck in NY bottom line. Regroup, Tenn. is in trouble!!!! I believe we are in a great position right now. Yes i know, cellar, but home games are home games. We win our home games vs East and we on top. I'm just glad we have gotten ssomething going at all this year already with this complex Offense. hang in there guys. The show is about to START soon.:)[/quote]


Im bummed out about how they played against the G-men but your optomism helps me to remember the season isnt over.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

I think someone else mentioned it, but Carlos Rogers scares the hell out of me. He evidently was only good last year because he was covering the #2 guy or backing up Springs. Half the time I see the opposing team make a grab or a long run, Rogers is somewhere trying to catch up. And Archuleta isn't far behind him.

Taylor even looked bad today - but what do you expect when he has to basically man the entire secondary himself because Archuleta, Rogers and whoever the 4th back of the moment is are trying to figure out what a football looks like.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

Is it just me or does anyone else have nightmarish flashbacks to Tom Carter when seeing Carlos Rogers? Anyone else remember TC? Highly touted first-round pick back in '93. Supposed to be the heir apparent to Darrell Green as the next great Redskins CB. Man, what a waste he was.

I really hope the same doesn't end up being the case for Rogers

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=LadyT;225685]You can attack the defense's play all day long, but not many teams win games when they can only muster 3 points on the board. We have all these offensive weapons and that's the best we can do?

Sadly, Brunell reverted to his form of the first two games today. He had at least two passes that should have been picked but were not. And the O-line played poorly too. The only player on "O" who stepped up was Cooley.

The "D" didn't play well either, but they still held one of the league's best offenses to 19 points and 1 TD.

On a lot of days, that should be enough to win. But not when your offense can't do squat.

Today, the Skins didn't play with any fire or passion, unlike last week. Hard to stomach when you're playing an important divisional opponent.[/quote]
I blame the offensive game plan more than the offensive players. The Giants secondary has been reeling all year, yet Gibbs/Saunders didn't try to exploit that. They even deactivated Patton, who could have helped in 4 WR sets if Gibbs really wanted to challenge that secondary. Also, please don't let our defense off the hook. Yes, they only gave up 19 points, but they couldn't get the Giants offense off the field on numerous 3rd down plays. I don't believe the Giants even had a punt until the 4th quarter. We cannot win if we allow such a disparity in time of possession, and don't take advantage of turnovers to be had (Rogers dropped INT - yet again, Taylor strip recovered by NY).

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;225738]Is it just me or does anyone else have nightmarish flashbacks to Tom Carter when seeing Carlos Rogers? Anyone else remember TC? Highly touted first-round pick back in '93. Supposed to be the heir apparent to Darrell Green as the next great Redskins CB. Man, what a waste he was.

I really hope the same doesn't end up being the case for Rogers[/quote]

I would say he looks more like Daryll Pounds at this point. Tom Carter could at least cover the deep post.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

Still too early to panic about Rogers.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;225752]Still too early to panic about Rogers.[/QUOTE]


at what point is it safe to panic? he's been struggling at no.2 corner, and we have a johnny-come-lately Kenny Wright as our no.1. the results have been nothing but apparent.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

They are mediocre at best but you aren't going to win when you scored 3 points.

The worst was watching Lavar. He tips one pass and you would have thought he took over the game like LT. He is a shell of his former self.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=illdefined;225800]at what point is it safe to panic? he's been struggling at no.2 corner, and we have a johnny-come-lately Kenny Wright as our no.1. the results have been nothing but apparent.[/quote]

Agree Rogers has me very worried. Two years in this system and he still takes bad angles at the line, is too soft in man to man, and has poor hands. This is his opportunity to step up with Springs out and I haven't seen anything that makes me think he will be anything more than a nickel back. He does dances well though when burned (and the receiver drops the ball).

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=illdefined;225800]at what point is it safe to panic? he's been struggling at no.2 corner, and we have a johnny-come-lately Kenny Wright as our no.1. the results have been nothing but apparent.[/quote]

Gotta at least give him the rest of the season.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

3 seasons is pretty generous for a 1st round pick dontcha think?

he should still be developing as a no.1 corner, not a no. 2.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=illdefined;225842]3 seasons is pretty generous for a 1st round pick dontcha think?

he should still be developing as a no.1 corner, not a no. 2.[/quote]

He's only in his second season. Give him some time.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

I think Matty is right. We should be patient. (What else can we do?) The thing that has me concerned is not Rogers or any other individual, but rather the yo-yo nature of the whole team. They are entirely unpredictable. It seems like they play hard one week so they can coast the next without things getting too ugly. It's textbook under-achievement. Just get by. I'm thinking more of the offense now, because I think the defense is actually doing the best they can.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

Rogers could turn out to be a beast, but for the 9th overall pick he has the makings of a bust. Would anyone else like to go back in a time machine and snag Merriman and have used our 2nd rounder on Jimmy Williams? Shoulda, coulda, woulda.....I know.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;225862]Rogers could turn out to be a beast, but for the 9th overall pick he has the makings of a bust. Would anyone else like to go back in a time machine and snag Merriman and have used our 2nd rounder on Jimmy Williams? Shoulda, coulda, woulda.....I know.[/quote]

This is a no-brainer right now. If I see Rogers drop another interception that could turn the game, I am going to puke.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

d has really been hugge disappointment this year so far. i mean i know we only put up three points, but it definitely "felt" like the D was far worse. i expect low scores in a division game.

it seems now i'd rather have them in 3rd and 1 over 3rd and 18. that way maybe we can luck out and stuff the run.

as far as playoffs. i see us as having to go 9-2 or better, especially considering that if we beat tennessee next week, we'll be 3-3 but with zero wins against the nfc. last year were 10-2 vs. nfc (right?). that's a damn good conference record. without the good nfc record to break some ties, i don't see 10-6 getting us in.

it's too early to say exactly but that's my guess.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

Williams should have Rogers shag a couple hundred balls this week. And get him Lester Hayes' contact info.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=illdefined;225842]3 seasons is pretty generous for a 1st round pick dontcha think?

he should still be developing as a no.1 corner, not a no. 2.[/quote]

Today was his 17th start, just a hair over 1 complete season.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;225872]Today was his 17th start, just a hair over 1 complete season.[/quote]

Who cares. A top ten corner should catch one out of three balls that hit him in the hands.

See Seattle....
See Dallas.....
See New Jersey...

Why couldn't Rolle have fallen to us...
Hell, I would take that idiot, Pac-man. At least he can catch.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;225876]Who cares. A top ten corner should catch one out of three balls that hit him in the hands.

See Seattle....
See Dallas.....
See New Jersey...

Why couldn't Rolle have fallen to us...
Hell, I would take that idiot, Pac-man. At least he can catch.[/quote]

I agree he needs to make plays like that, but what else can we do?? Cut him after one year?

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;225876]Who cares. A top ten corner should catch one out of three balls that hit him in the hands.

See Seattle....
See Dallas.....
See New Jersey...

Why couldn't Rolle have fallen to us...
Hell, I would take that idiot, Pac-man. At least he can catch.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't trade Ade Jimoh for Pac-man. If it looks like a turd, acts like a turd, smells like a turd.....it's a turd.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;225883]I wouldn't trade Ade Jimoh for Pac-man. If it looks like a turd, acts like a turd, smells like a turd.....it's a turd.[/quote]


Well if a turd can make interceptions at key times, give it 25 million.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

Pacman has 0 career INTs

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;225886]Pacman has 0 career INTs[/quote]

Well he catches punts so I don't think that I am going out on a limb by saying he has better hands than Rogers. Stevie f-ing Wonder could see that.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;225885]Well if a turd can make interceptions at key times, give it 25 million.[/QUOTE]

Or, give it some glocks and rocks and it will be even happier.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

it really blows........ our defense suck so bad...............Pink wouldn't sleep with it

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

It is beyond bad. That game was so bad yesterday i was asleep at halftime. I dont see us improving on d and i just dont know if s springs can change any of this. 0-2 in the division...thats not good.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Defensewins;225575]Some of our big dollar pick ups on Defense are killing us right now.

1) Andre Carter has been a huge waste salary cap space. I have held back to see what he can do before critizing him. This is week five and he has done nothing. Today he was burned for some big runs (sweeps) around his end. He is getting manhandled in the running game. He is currently not a full time starter. I always said since we got Carter we should platoon him, Renaldo Wynn on run downs and Carter on pass plays. Wynn is a great run stopping DE and coach Williams is not paying him enough. .

2) We over paid for Archuleta. Plain and simple.

3) Because we have so much cap space tied up on players that are not producing (Carter, Arch, Randle El and Lloyd) we had no cap space left to sign an elite CB and a coverage SS which what we most needed.[/quote]

hey hey, ho ho, vinny c has got to go. the lack of talent is on the FO. GW can share the blame if he helped pick his players. paying big for non-producers like arch and carter and lloyd has kinda sorta backfired horribly. maybe next time we should take guys from teams that aren't 30th in defense instead of paying the guys they don't even want to keep.

without springs or some weird blockbuster midseason deal, i don't see the defenses getting much better. and if it can't improve, there's no playoffs. better hope springs isn't done for the year :/.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

Look, the secondary is trouble, no doubt. But I agree with Matty that it's too early to drop Rogers.

A much bigger worry, IMO, is the lack of pressure on the QB. ANY QB, given time, can beat even a good secondary. And we just do not pressure the QB consistently. And this year, the "creative" GW blitzes just aren't getting it done, when he does send them. So we can't generate a pass rush with our down 4, and we can't do it on the blitz. That spells trouble for any D, even one without our secondray troubles.

Oh, and if you can't stop the run either, forget it! At least against jax they did that!

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

Im pretty sure they only scored 1 TD and we held them in 3 redzone trips.....doesnt sound bad to me!

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=DaveyFoSho;226114]Im pretty sure they only scored 1 TD and we held them in 3 redzone trips.....doesnt sound bad to me![/quote]

Yeah but can you honestly say the 19 points was due to anything we did well on defense??

Their offense sputtered in the redzone, the final score should have been much worse.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

The good news is that The East is all in the same boat - excpet for the Eagles... We need to win going forward or we are out of the playoffs...

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=DaveyFoSho;226114]Im pretty sure they only scored 1 TD and we held them in 3 redzone trips.....doesnt sound bad to me![/QUOTE]

The TD was on an 8 minute drive and one field goal came after the Giants started at their own 1 yard line. You have a team starting at its own 1 it should not score any points at all on that drive

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

No punts in the first half. That is bad D.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[url=http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/09/SPG6BLLF1H1.DTL]Harris leads 49ers' defensive attack with three interceptions[/url]

Walt Harris is tearing it up in SF; he got three interceptions on Sunday and is a team captain....clearly we gave up on him too soon.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;225738]Is it just me or does anyone else have nightmarish flashbacks to Tom Carter when seeing Carlos Rogers? Anyone else remember TC? Highly touted first-round pick back in '93. Supposed to be the heir apparent to Darrell Green as the next great Redskins CB. Man, what a waste he was.

I really hope the same doesn't end up being the case for Rogers[/QUOTE]

I remember Tom Carter, but after his initial contract was up, he signed with Chicago and was out of football right after that. I think it was only a matter of time before this front office f***ed up a top ten pick.

Hindsight's always 20/20, but to think that Demarcus Ware and Shawn Merriman were still there at #9 ... sickening.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=hesscl34;226126]The good news is that The East is all in the same boat - excpet for the Eagles... We need to win going forward or we are out of the playoffs...[/quote]

Will someone please HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!! SOMEONE?!?!?

If there was such a thing, now is the time to press it, not when it's too late.

The season is NOT over.. it's not cooked......yet.

However, we HAVE to get this team turned around RIGHT HERE!
If we want a chance to grab a wildcard at 10-6, we have to go 8-2! (assuming loss @indy). There is no time for working things out or giving things time to gel. GOTO PLAN B RIGHT NOW. Saunders needs to move pass this shuffle play offense thats now obviously been over exposed on film for too many weeks. ....And if he needs to make player changes to get his REAL offense executed then by ALL means get it done. This is no time to hold onto player's feelings and friendships. That time was on opening day when its "all good". WAKEUP!! RED ALERT!! MAN YOUR BATTLE STATIONS!! Its all about survival now.

We need to get aggressive on offense AND defense. ATTACK ATTACK LIKE APACHES... Set the tempo, hit someone in the mouth, and then hit em AGAIN. We're playing scared AGAIN on both sides of the ball.. These players NEED TO GET MAD.. I see a bunch of pouters, and excuse makers in the lockeroom.

Someone better do "it" NOW because we are a handful of losses away from being out of the hunt, and there's still alot of games left!!

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;225752]Still too early to panic about Rogers.[/QUOTE]

Cornerback is one of those positions that you basically know what you've got right off the bat. It's a very instinctive position that shouldn't take much time to adjust to the NFL.

Look at it this way, we knew with Champ and Smoot pretty quickly what we had. If at this point Rogers is still "learning the ropes" then we've likely seen the best he has to offer.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Oakland Red;226184][url=http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/09/SPG6BLLF1H1.DTL]Harris leads 49ers' defensive attack with three interceptions[/url]

Walt Harris is tearing it up in SF; he got three interceptions on Sunday and is a team captain....clearly we gave up on him too soon.[/QUOTE]

I agree, he got burned on a few last year, and the hatred for him was unrelenting. I never understood it. Sure like to have him back.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;226187]Cornerback is one of those positions that you basically know what you've got right off the bat. It's a very instinctive position that shouldn't take much time to adjust to the NFL.

Look at it this way, we knew with Champ and Smoot pretty quickly what we had. If at this point Rogers is still "learning the ropes" then we've likely seen the best he has to offer.[/quote]

I really disagree.

Corner is one of the toughest positions to come in to as a rookie, especially in a defense like this that asks so much from the position.

Smoot struggled early on as well.