Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[quote=Southpaw;267432]Agreed, but apparently in Washington, running for a lot of yards between the 20's overshadows fumbling in the red zone...[/quote]

Which is odd considering Gibbs is such a nut over that.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[quote=Redskins_P;267439]I doubt it will happen. As much as people want to speculate....Portis will be a Redskin for awhile.

How quickly everyone forgets how he practically carried the team on his back during our 5 game winning streak in '05.

You can say what you want about Betts doing the same, but the difference is that we won games w/ CP and Betts essentially contributed to our losses with his fumbles.

Portis > Betts. End of story.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure that 90% of us are against trading Portis. I sure as hell don't want Portis to be traded, but I've also been a fan of this team long enough to know that this is exactly the type of retarded shit they'd do, and then find some way to spin it in the Redskins media machine, to make everyone hate Portis...

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[quote=Schneed10;267443]I'm 99.99999% sure he's staying. Suffice it to say, one of us is going to be VERY surprised to be wrong. We'll see who's right.

Note to self: make fun of Southpaw when Portis suits up for the 'Skins in 2007.[/quote]

As I said, I'd love nothing more to be wrong in this situation, because I would have a hard time stomaching the fact that Betts is THE guy. A plate full of deep fried crow would go down much easier.

I still think he's gone though...

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[quote=Southpaw;267447]As I said, I'd love nothing more to be wrong in this situation, because I would have a hard time stomaching the fact that Betts is THE guy. A plate full of deep fried crow would go down much easier.

I still think he's gone though...[/quote]

Crow it is.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P;267439]
How quickly everyone forgets how he practically carried the team on his back during our 5 game winning streak in '05.

You can say what you want about Betts doing the same, but the difference is that we won games w/ CP and Betts essentially contributed to our losses with his fumbles.

Portis > Betts. End of story.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with you. He was the main reason they made the playoffs last year. He put the team on his back and they won football games. Him and the D, at least. Anyway, as much as I would like to believe Joe Gibbs, I just can't do it. I've been bitten by this organization too many times to buy into what he's saying.

Gibbs hasn't been upfront with fans about a lot of things. Also, what if he said that they had every intention of trading Clinton Portis? Then you end up in the Champ Bailey situation where other teams are holding all the cards cause they know Clinton doesn't wanna come back cause you said you were trading him. The best way to trade a guy is to publicly deny his availibility and then privately shop him all over the league.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;267447]As I said, I'd love nothing more to be wrong in this situation, because I would have a hard time stomaching the fact that Betts is THE guy. A plate full of deep fried crow would go down much easier.

I still think he's gone though...[/QUOTE]

I agree on this one too. I'll be the happiest guy in the world if I am wrong. I just am about 80% sure he's gonna get shipped out.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

Here's another thing to consider: Are we 100% sure Clinton Portis is happy here? Has he been on the same page with this offense from the beginning, and especially now, when he said he wishes they'd ran the ball the way Betts was running it after he went on IR?

My guess is it probably won't happen, but for all the Portis lovers, do you want to keep him so bad that the defense will continue to suffer because of it?

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;267457]
My guess is it probably won't happen, but for all the Portis lovers, do you want to keep him so bad that the defense will continue to suffer because of it?[/QUOTE]

Getting Dre Bly won't help that much. Letting Rogers jam guys and keeping Springs healthy would. Bly has what? Another couple years left of being really good. That's not that great. Not for one of the better backs in the league. They can get a DE at #6 that will make an impact and all of a sudden, if they ever learn to pressure the qb, the corners will look 10x better. If they didn't have to cover for so long, they'd be okay. I don't know that the D needs much more than an MLB, which they ain't pick at 2 or 6, and a pass rushing DE, which they could get at 2 or 6.

However, the offense is gonna suffer greatly without Clinton. That I don't know that I CAN live with.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

This trade only makes sense if the skins get the #2 pick without having to give back #6...and I doubt Detroit would do that. Otherwise why give up Portis for 4 spots in the draft and a 30 year old CB? Plus whatever gaurenteed money is left on Portis contract will hit the cap imediately if the skins trade him...meaning it would require a bunch of cuts and restructures just to make a trade possible. it's not happening...

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=celts32;267461]This trade only makes sense if the skins get the #2 pick without having to give back #6...and I doubt Detroit would do that. Otherwise why give up Portis for 4 spots in the draft and a 30 year old CB? Plus whatever gaurenteed money is left on Portis contract will hit the cap imediately if the skins trade him...meaning it would require a bunch of cuts and restructures just to make a trade possible. it's not happening...[/QUOTE]

It would really only create a little more of a hit than they're anticipating.

And, when has dead cap space ever stopped Washington from doing anything?

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

Bottom line is it's doable. And I don't care what Gibbs says publicly, privately he has to, will listen to other offers. Especially ones that will line up #2 pick.

But like I said, it's possible a third party could get involved in a deal to make the pot sweeter for the Redskins.

I think it's a 50/50 chance of it happening. I think in the end, I would rather have Portis suiting up in Burgundy and Gold in '07.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[quote=12thMan;267476]Bottom line is it's doable. And I don't care what Gibbs says publicly, privately he has to, will listen to other offers. Especially ones that will line up #2 pick.

But like I said, it's possible a third party could get involved in a deal to make the pot sweeter for the Redskins.

I think it's a 50/50 chance of it happening. I think in the end, I would rather have Portis suiting up in Burgundy and Gold in '07.[/quote]
Agreed,

With that said, how juicy does the pot have to get before it's okay to deal him out? Are there any teams that can meet that?

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;267376]Trade Duckett and keep Betts and Portis...[/QUOTE]

Com'on Hess! Duckett is a FA.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

WOW, already 4 pages...jdlea has it on the money in his last post.
Just goes to show you Clinton Portis means a lot to this team when we can ramble on for this many pages about a bogus rumor.

#1- The Lions are dumb, but not that dumb. Trade a talented corner and their #2 pick leaving a huge hole in their secondary and log jamming the RB position and digressing the advancement of their young stud RB Jones? If this is true (I am 99.9% sure it is not) then Millen wants to be fired, and this shows why the Lions can't win, they are the dumbest team in history.

#2- I doubt that Gibbs thinks Betts is the man in DC. Gibbs hates mistakes, and Betts made a lot of them. Gibbs will get rid of a fumbler before a non fumbler. Even if Betts averaged 5 yards per and Portis 4 yards per, he'd keep Portis due to the turnovers.

#3- If I started a rumor that we're trading Portis for Champ Bailey and their #1 pick, would everyone get suckered in? If something doesn't make sense, then it is likely not true. This is someone's wild imagination run wild by overzealous Skins fans that didn't want the season to be over at this point.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;267476]Bottom line is it's doable. And I don't care what Gibbs says publicly, privately he has to, will listen to other offers. Especially ones that will line up #2 pick. [/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree with this.
But consider the source of the rumor. What if someone said Portis for Manning (peyton)? Stop thinking 1 sided, teams only trade to try to HELP their team, not hurt it. Detriot would get hurt a lot by this trade. Indy would get hurt a lot by that bogus trade I just mentioned. So it's only real if a team actually needs an RB. Detroit is not one of them.

Gibbs would be stupid not to listen...someone might offer a trade that can't be refused. I'd trade Portis if it sured up our defense. We'd need 2 people though. Not many would offer that for Portis when he's coming off the surgery like that.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

what about betts instead of portis? What would ppl around here be willing to let Betts go to another team for? Would it take a 1st rounder? Another player?

What if a team like the jets, who we always trade with, offered their first rounder for ladell betts? Would ppl on here want to take that trade or not?

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

while i think this trade is doable, i couldnt think of one player on the lions that i want here in washington. dre bly is almost 30, and to me, alittle over rated. and i love portis. with that being said, if the right, blockbuster deal comes along, i would have to think long and hard about it

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;267490]WOW, already 4 pages...jdlea has it on the money in his last post.
Just goes to show you Clinton Portis means a lot to this team when we can ramble on for this many pages about a bogus rumor.

[B]#1- The Lions are dumb, but not that dumb. Trade a talented corner and their #2 pick leaving a huge hole in their secondary and log jamming the RB position and digressing the advancement of their young stud RB Jones? If this is true (I am 99.9% sure it is not) then Millen wants to be fired, and this shows why the Lions can't win, they are the dumbest team in history.[/B]

#2- I doubt that Gibbs thinks Betts is the man in DC. Gibbs hates mistakes, and Betts made a lot of them. Gibbs will get rid of a fumbler before a non fumbler. Even if Betts averaged 5 yards per and Portis 4 yards per, he'd keep Portis due to the turnovers.

#3- If I started a rumor that we're trading Portis for Champ Bailey and their #1 pick, would everyone get suckered in? If something doesn't make sense, then it is likely not true. This is someone's wild imagination run wild by overzealous Skins fans that didn't want the season to be over at this point.[/QUOTE]

See though, the only thing is, Kevin Jones hasn't been that good. He's eclipsed 1000 yards only once. He hit 1133 or something like that in his rookie season and he hasn't gotten to 700 yards the last two, both of which he's ended up injured. I think the Lions might want to go out and get a Clinton Portis, it makes sense to me, why they would want him. However, they need to work on that O Line to open up some holes before they get concerned about the running back situation.

I do, however, agree that trading Dre Bly would probably be a mistake on their part. He's pretty much the only guy that concerns anyone in that defensive backfield. He can play, but he's already 29 and I don't think that the deal makes sense from the Skins standpoint other than the fact that he could be coming with the 2nd overall pick.

All in all, if people are really making offers, I guarantee the Skins are listening and they're certainly not thinking dealing Portis is out of the question. The more I think about it, the more I think his days in Burgundy and Gold are done. And that makes me angry.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;267502]while i think this trade is doable, i couldnt think of one player on the lions that i want here in washington. dre bly is almost 30, and to me, alittle over rated. and i love portis. with that being said, if the right, blockbuster deal comes along, i would have to think long and hard about it[/QUOTE]

Don't forget Dre Bly threw Joey Harrington under the bus last year when Mooch got fired. I still hold that against him.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

If Portis was saying what the other players were feeling (which I expect is the case) then it would kill team morale to trade him now. None of the players would believe in Gibbs (and Snyder) any more and the team would self-destruct. Gibbs knows this and will not allow this to happen. In addition, Gibbs doesn't air dirty laundry, so what he says to us I take with a grain of salt. (Lies to the team are far more detrimental than lies to the fans.) As far as comparing what what he said in relation to Ramsey vs Portis, one can play football and the other one not. In addition, one was a Gibbs pick and one was not. No comparison between the statements.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[quote=RobH4413;267483]Agreed,

With that said, how juicy does the pot have to get before it's okay to deal him out? Are there any teams that can meet that?[/quote]


Everything's doable in the NFL - everything. I tell you what I wouldn't do, is basically swap our 6th for 2nd and trade Portis for Bly. No way, no how.

The only way the Skins should do this in my opinion is if someone gives us like two picks, including their first, and a solid player. I mean, we would really have to clearly come out on top for this to work for me.

But I maintain, if Gibbs stood in front of the press on the 5 0'clock news and denied it, it would mean nothing to me.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[quote=Mattyk72;267393]I really doubt it. Gibbs seems to really love Portis and everyone knows he's an outspoken guy who speaks his mind. And it's not like he even said anything bad, he was just speaking the truth.[/quote]

Agree he didn't necessarily say anything "bad", but it still isn't good to air the team's dirty laundry in public. That stuff needs to stay in the locker room.

I'm torn on this issue of a Portis trade. It's obvious to me that Betts can be a starter, but is Cartwright a quality backup? I guess if they could work something that would benefit the team in the long run (draft picks, not a drastic salary cap hit, etc.) I'd be for it.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

I'm not torn - CP needs to be in the locker room for us to win consistently next year. Whether or not he should be a captain, he is the face of the Skins these days. There has been so much turnover here, I think dealing CP would be too much for the team to bear.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

If we trade CP and keep either Lloyd or Archuletta...the earth might open up and swallow FedEx Field. What kind of message would that say to the players? If that happens, we won't win more than 5 games.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;267505]See though, the only thing is, Kevin Jones hasn't been that good. He's eclipsed 1000 yards only once. He hit 1133 or something like that in his rookie season and he hasn't gotten to 700 yards the last two, both of which he's ended up injured. I think the Lions might want to go out and get a Clinton Portis, it makes sense to me, why they would want him. However, they need to work on that O Line to open up some holes before they get concerned about the running back situation.

I do, however, agree that trading Dre Bly would probably be a mistake on their part. He's pretty much the only guy that concerns anyone in that defensive backfield. He can play, but he's already 29 and I don't think that the deal makes sense from the Skins standpoint other than the fact that he could be coming with the 2nd overall pick.

All in all, if people are really making offers, I guarantee the Skins are listening and they're certainly not thinking dealing Portis is out of the question. The more I think about it, the more I think his days in Burgundy and Gold are done. And that makes me angry.[/QUOTE]

So bench a guy that caught 61 balls in 12 games and trade for a guy that played in only 8 and caught only 17 out of the backfield? That doesn't make sense. While Jones has been injured the past two seasons, he is younger and fits more into the Lions offense.

Portis 693 yards (rush / rec in 8 games) 86.6 yards per game with one of the best offensive lines in the game.
Jones 1209 (rush / rec in 12 games) 100.75 yards per game with one of the worst offensive lines in the game.
If you're thinking td's...Portis had 7, Jones had 8.

I'd say that Jones was productive in his system, and one of the few bright spots the Lions have. Again, the Lions would be stupid. Address a real issue, like you said, the OL. You can be the best back in the world, but unless you're Barry Sanders, you need an OL.
I firmly beleive that we will see Portis in a Skins uni next season. (98% sure)

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=onlydarksets;267528]I'm not torn - CP needs to be in the locker room for us to win consistently next year. Whether or not he should be a captain, he is the face of the Skins these days. There has been so much turnover here, I think dealing CP would be too much for the team to bear.[/QUOTE]


Being from Boston and a huge Red Sox fan, I beleive in having those "clowns / idiots" in the locker room. They lighten up the atmosphere and help people to laugh...Portis is one of those key players!

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

I just don't get this organization ever...I am pretty sure that Portis won't be traded...but if for some reason he does, we'll be a couple more fan favorite trades away from being the Arizona DC Cardinal-Skins. How much more can the organization expect fans to take?

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

As someone touched on earlier...

There is no stat to how big portis' value is in the locker room.

Skins can't trade portis, he's too valuable.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

Wow! I leave the office for the day, come back and one of the juiciest threads gets started.

If I'm not mistaken KJ's injury is pretty serious. I think they were talking about the same thing happened to another player and it took a full year to recover from. Since KJ's injury happened pretty late in the season the Lions could be up scheisse creek without a paddle.

I'm in the group that says CP is most proably a Redskin in 2007. He is a special back (not a sexy back) and it would take, as someone already said, a "Hershell Walker-type" trade for it to make sense. Think of the merchandising loss the Skins are going to lose by giving up Portis.

I'm also hoping he stays because my friend bought my 1 1/2 year old son a CP jersey, which he'll be able to wear until he's like 6.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;267531]So bench a guy that caught 61 balls in 12 games and trade for a guy that played in only 8 and caught only 17 out of the backfield? That doesn't make sense. While Jones has been injured the past two seasons, he is younger and fits more into the Lions offense.

Portis 693 yards (rush / rec in 8 games) 86.6 yards per game with one of the best offensive lines in the game.
Jones 1209 (rush / rec in 12 games) 100.75 yards per game with one of the worst offensive lines in the game.
If you're thinking td's...Portis had 7, Jones had 8.

I'd say that Jones was productive in his system, and one of the few bright spots the Lions have. Again, the Lions would be stupid. Address a real issue, like you said, the OL. You can be the best back in the world, but unless you're Barry Sanders, you need an OL.
I firmly beleive that we will see Portis in a Skins uni next season. (98% sure)[/QUOTE]

Yes, because he doesn't run the football well. They could go with Portis and Jones just like Washington would be doing with Betts and Portis. I'm not saying Jones never has to see the field again. I'm saying Clinton's better.

I'm not buying your argument that Jones is a better option cause he had a better season THIS year. Betts catches a lot of balls out of the backfield too, but Clinton still carried the load.

He managed to get 1 more touchdown than Clinton in 4 more games this season. He also ran for all of 166 more yards. Clinton wasn't even all that active when he was healthy this year. Clinton is a WAY better back. Clinton's also only 1 year older. The only thing Kevin Jones does better than Clinton is catch balls outta the backfield.

If I'm Detroit I don't know that I'd offer Bly and the #2 overall for Clinton, but I would definitely make a run at him. Kevin Jones doesn't stay on the field consistently and he doesn't run nearly as well. He could be a third down guy who can go catch balls or run some draw plays. I mean really, the guy would be a really good #2 back, but I don't even think he's as good as Ladell Betts, let alone Clinton Portis.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

Am I the only one who saw Betts fumble away the Bucs game, fumble away the Rams game and have a key fumble in the Giants game? Yes he had a great run of yards but he is not a 16 game featured running back.. Trading Portis or even talking about it is ridiculous. Portis is a top 10 RB, maybe even top 5 (LJ, LT, Alexander, Jackson, ??) so to be talking about dealing him because Betts had a good quarter season is crazy.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[quote=Paintrain;267561]Am I the only one who saw Betts fumble away the Bucs game, fumble away the Rams game and have a key fumble in the Giants game? Yes he had a great run of yards but he is not a 16 game featured running back.. Trading Portis or even talking about it is ridiculous. Portis is a top 10 RB, maybe even top 5 (LJ, LT, Alexander, Jackson, ??) so to be talking about dealing him because Betts had a good quarter season is crazy.[/quote]

I think Portis is a top five back. That's why the Redskins can't just let him go for peanuts.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

i would do the 2nd trade in a heart beat. get a corner + 2 picks for portis is a steal. 1st thing is that Jones looks like he might miss the entire 2007 season. #2 we need to get young, cause getting younger will makes hungry. players see the redskins as a payday. just look at achuleta, deon, smith. then look at the young players we let go, pierce, BAILEY. i would do it, hell fire gibbs and the entire staff and bring in grimm...

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

I've heard KJ should be ready week one. Portis isn't untradeable, no one really is. But I really think it's going to take a whole lot to make any move.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

Let me first say that I love CP, and I hope he stays...he brings an intangible that is difficult to quantify. The guy is a competitor and a winner. That said, the NFL is a business and EVERYONE is tradeable for the right price.

Seems to me like Millen is grasping here. He knows the Skins aren't afraid to talk big when it comes to trades and Millen needs to bring in a "franchise" type player to keep management off his back since he has decided to keep Marinelli at HC.

That said, no way do I take Bly plus a #2 for #6 swap. Bly is good but not great, and the difference between a #2 and a #6 is not worth it, especially in this draft. Assuming we are going after a DE in the draft your options are Gaines Adams our Victor Abraimiri. Gaines is a projected 2nd or 3rd pick, and Abraimiri is projected 6th or 7th. Gaines is better, but not so much better that he's worth the trade. Either guy will be a contributor and a long term anchor on the D-line. If the deal included Detroit's 2nd rounder, Bly, and the swap, however, I think it'll happen.

BTW, for all those that don't think Betts can be a #1 option...if you extrapolate his numbers this year, he would have had nearly 1700 yards in a full season. Fumblitisis a problem but it can be fixed...just look at Tiki Barber. Portis is better, no doubt, but Betts is a serviceable #1 in my opinion.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

If we trade CP it would kill what little morale this team has left. I cant trust Betts as an everydown back, and why would you trade your best offensive player when your trying to groom a young QB. If we did the deal for Bly and the #2 pick, whats to say that Bly doesnt come here and suck and the #2 pick doesnt end up being a bust? I dont trust giving up a proven top 10 if not top 5 back for unproven talent. I dont want to see Portis traded for anything, we gave up alot for him and hes been everything we expected him to be, minus the injury this year. Theres a reason teams are chomping at the bit to get Portis, they know how great he is and cant believe hes even available, man does this team love to rip my heart out.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

I think it's important to keep in mind that these are just rumors. And even if they have some modicum of truth to them they're all about what the Lions are offering. No where has any mention been made that the Redskins are actively shopping Portis.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

Setting aside the fact that it is just a rumor. I think the fact that Betts has been a Redskin longer than Portis will help prevent morale loss. The team seemed just as excited having him back there as they did with Portis. I don't think it's going to be a morale killer trading him for team needs.

Once again, I don't want him to be traded unless the deal is just too sweet to pass up.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;267642]Setting aside the fact that it is just a rumor. I think the fact that Betts has been a Redskin longer than Portis will help prevent morale loss. The team seemed just as excited having him back there as they did with Portis. I don't think it's going to be a morale killer trading him for team needs.

Once again, I don't want him to be traded unless the deal is just too sweet to pass up.[/QUOTE]

But see the problem I have with that is, what constitutes "too good to pass up." They can try to spin it that way if they want to. They could act like Domanick Williams (formerly Davis) and a 3rd round draft pick was too good to pass up. Might now work, but now, think about the fact the fact that they control much of the media that covers them and it just might work.

Re: Rumored Portis Trade offered FROM! the Lions
 

[quote=jdlea;267373]Detroit could use Clinton Portis. Kevin Jones is a serviceable running back, but I don't know that I would call him "good." I think part of the problem he has is a pretty weak O Line. Also, he's never played 16 games and the past 2 years he's had his seasons cut short. Still, he only ran for 1000+ in his rookie season, since then, he hasn't cracked 700 yards. I think that's a pretty decent indictment of him.

Also, when one of the better running backs in the NFL is perceived to be available, everyone should be showing interest short of San Diego and KC. I'm not really all that surprised by the fact that the Lions would come after him and if I'm Washington, and actually looking to deal Portis, I would have to look twice at Bly and the 2nd overall. Then, they would have filled a need at corner (albeit a relatively old one) and have 2 picks in the top 6. They could shop for those or draft whoever they want.

All that said, I'm gonna be insanely pissed if Clinton Portis gets traded this offseason. I will be irrate and wish I could turn off the love of the team.

Finally, anyone think maybe Clinton rubbed the organization the wrong way with that interview? I don't mind what he said, but maybe Joe Gibbs/Cerrato/Snyder/Saunders did and might be a little more open to trading him than they were before.

One other quick thing, just because Joe Gibbs categorically denied that they're trading Clinton holds very little water with me. He also said, going into the 05(?) draft that "we're gonna go get Patrick Ramsey some weapons" and then they picked Rogers and Campbell.[/quote]

I think he has rubbed some people the wrong way bitching about preseason. He also does not like to practice, lift weights and do the whole OTA thing. He just wants to train in South Beach which you know pisses off Gibbs. Gibbs likes the players around Redskin Park. How does it look if your best player isn't there busting his ass to set an example? I bet JC will be there. But he performs so they deal with it. So I think there is some truth to these rumors. But I don't think he's going anywhere. I hope we don't trade him either. But if the right deal comes along where the defense can be improved right away I would pull the trigger.