Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=gabe1984;305924]I strongly disagree with this statement. I honestly don't understand how you can say that. He started in the pro bowl 2 season ago. Have you seen the man play?[/quote]

Just cause you play in the pro bowl two years ago does not mean you are a true #1 wr. Pro Bowl doesn't mean anything to me. Don't get me wrong. I love Moss. I love his speed, run after the catch and the way he catches the ball. I think he is very very good NFL WR. No question about that. But I would not put him in the same category as:

TO
R.Moss
C. Johnson
M. Harrison
S.Smith
T.Holt

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;305984]Just cause you play in the pro bowl two years ago does not mean you are a true #1 wr. Pro Bowl doesn't mean anything to me. Don't get me wrong. I love Moss. I love his speed, run after the catch and the way he catches the ball. I think he is very very good NFL WR. No question about that. But I would not put him in the same category as:

TO
R.Moss
C. Johnson
M. Harrison
S.Smith
T.Holt[/quote]

he's not in the same category as chad johnson? and you said he wasn't a good number 1 receiver, that's just bogus.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;305984]Just cause you play in the pro bowl two years ago does not mean you are a true #1 wr. Pro Bowl doesn't mean anything to me. Don't get me wrong. I love Moss. I love his speed, run after the catch and the way he catches the ball. I think he is very very good NFL WR. No question about that. But I would not put him in the same category as:

TO
R.Moss
C. Johnson
M. Harrison
S.Smith
T.Holt[/quote]

You know what, if you have TO at the top of that list and he led the NFL in dropped balls, that tells me we're probably using two different measuring sticks.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;305984]Just cause you play in the pro bowl two years ago does not mean you are a true #1 wr. Pro Bowl doesn't mean anything to me. Don't get me wrong. I love Moss. I love his speed, run after the catch and the way he catches the ball. I think he is very very good NFL WR. No question about that. But I would not put him in the same category as:

TO
R.Moss
C. Johnson
M. Harrison
S.Smith
T.Holt[/quote]Those are the only No. 1? Elite stuff.

Unless you are taking his performance from 4 years ago (a really long time), Randy Moss doesn't belong anywhere near those other guys. Owens probably doesn't either, but at least hes done [I]something[/I] in the last 3 years. Randy Moss' on field play cost the Raiders points over the last two years. I can't stress this point enough. He cost his own team points, and he's on your list of elite receviers. That's wack.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=GTripp0012;305992]Those are the only No. 1? Elite stuff.

Unless you are taking his performance from 4 years ago (a really long time), Randy Moss doesn't belong anywhere near those other guys. Owens probably doesn't either, but at least hes done [I]something[/I] in the last 3 years. Randy Moss' on field play cost the Raiders points over the last two years. I can't stress this point enough. He cost his own team points, and he's on your list of elite receviers. That's wack.[/quote]

How can you judge any wr's in Oak the last two years? Aaron Brooks, Andrew Walter and an OC that was running a bed and breakfast. That's wack.

Ownes led all WR's last year in TD's w/ missed time and a broken hand. He's a pain in the ass but that SOB produces. Why do you think JJ is paying him the roster bonus? He knows he needs him to win.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;305994]How can you judge any wr's in Oak the last two years? Aaron Brooks, Andrew Walter and an OC that was running a bed and breakfast. That's wack.

Ownes led all WR's last year in TD's w/ missed time and a broken hand. He's a pain in the ass but that SOB produces. Why do you think JJ is paying him the roster bonus? He knows he needs him to win.[/quote]


Conversely, how can you not take Moss' production into consideration with Brunell throwing to him. Not that Brunell is terrible, but he's not exactly known for throwing the long ball either.

TOs catches and TDs mean nothing to me if he leads the league in drops.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=12thMan;305995]Conversely, how can you not take Moss' production into consideration with Brunell throwing to him. Not that Brunell is terrible, but he's not exactly known for throwing the long ball either.

TOs catches and TDs mean nothing to me if he leads the league in drops.[/quote]

Good point. I personally dont think Santana is the best, nor do I think he is better than R.Moss was in his prime. As of now though? Santana owns this competition. Plus you dont have to deal with all that extra bullshit that comes with Randy.

However, I do feel that Santana needs to validate him this next year to clearly establish he is a elite receiver. Even during the 05 season he was streaky at times. Some amazing games, a couple with low numbers. I guess that applies with many receivers, and that fact that he started getting tripled has something to do with it, but I still feel to be considered one of the BEST he must perform at a very high level consistently, for several years. I think he is almost there, this next season will show.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

Brunell to Moss..... oh the memories <sigh>

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

Randy is still a stud, he had no team around him, no QB, and no hope.
Santana is also a stud, with a young QB and new system.

both are good, i'd rather have santana...but the person who wrote that he'd rather have santana over every reciever save Steve Smith is simply pushing more blind redskins drivel. Please, harrison (old or not), holt, chad johnson, hines ward, anquan boldin, roy williams, these are all guys you've have to consider, with most, i'd argue being better.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;306026]Randy is still a stud, he had no team around him, no QB, and no hope.
Santana is also a stud, with a young QB and new system.

both are good, i'd rather have santana...but the person who wrote that he'd rather have santana over every reciever save Steve Smith is simply pushing more blind redskins drivel. Please, harrison (old or not), holt, chad johnson, hines ward, anquan boldin, roy williams, these are all guys you've have to consider, with most, i'd argue being better.[/quote]

That was me with the rose colored glasses.

Can you honestly think of, in the past three years, one, just one, wideout who has singled handedly shut the door on opposing teams at the end of the game like Moss has? I can't.

There are some that are probably more physical, some faster, but none can adjust to the ball mid air and turn nothing into something like Santana Moss. And I'd strongly argue your points about Chad, Marvin, Boldin..(They all have either a Pro Bowl QB or a Pro Bowler opposite them.) Hines Ward? You're kidding, right? Roy Williams, nope. Not a game breaker like Moss. Holt...again, look at the supporting cast there. Either he had a prolific passer or a stud opposite him.

And that leaves me with Mr. Smith. I'll say they both have comparable supporting casts, yet Smith, pound for pound, is slightly better than Moss.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=12thMan;306038]

And that leaves me with Mr. Smith. I'll say they both have comparable supporting casts, yet Smith, pound for pound, is slightly better than Moss.[/quote]


Has anyone noticed that Smith has bulked up considerably since the Super Bowl year. NFL Network was running a program yesterday about the Patriots when they won their second Super Bowl and there was this scene with Mussin and Smtih where I remembered thinking "God Steve Smith was skinny." However you look at him now and he has tree trunks for legs.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

All I need is one stat to show how foolish you are.
Randy Moss Touchdowns [B]101 [/B]
Santana Moss Touchdowns 34

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

If were going to blame Brunell for the lack of Moss's production last year..... Its amazing Randy Moss even caught a ball with his situation in Oakland.

Really this is an interesting debate, because you're really looking at two different type of recivers. I don't think there is a better reciver at adjusting to the football in the NFL than Santana Moss. If you look at alot of the catches he makes.... a lot of times he is covered almost perfectly, but he can find this werid way to adapt to the play and make the catch. Randy is kinda of a reciver where if you can cover him, you can have him beat. The problem is (during his prime), he's nearly impossible to cover. Given the last two years (I was actually more impressed with Santana in 06' than 05' given the circumstances) I think Santana Moss gets the edge, but when both in their absolute prime, theres no question.

Man this "Moss" stuff gets confusing.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skins009;306136]All I need is one stat to show how foolish you are.
Randy Moss Touchdowns [B]101 [/B]
Santana Moss Touchdowns 34[/quote]

You might want to look at yourself. In the last two years with the Traiders he has only had 11 TD's.

On the other hand Santana in the last two years with us has had 15 TD's.

Moss hasen't done shit since he's been in the black/shit hole. Santana on the other hand has been more reliable and productive. You forgot to mention RM has been in the leaque quite a few more years.....?

Santana OVER that LOOSER Randy I'm not into right now ANYDAY OF THE WEEK.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=12thMan;306038]

There are some that are probably more physical, some faster, but none can adjust to the ball mid air and turn nothing into something like Santana Moss...[/quote]

There are certainly more physical, but I don't know if there are any faster. I mean Steve Smith is right there, but as far as a guy who can go from zero-to-full speed in an instant, I can't think of anyone as fast as Santana. When he gets the ball in the open field he never, ever gets caught. I think back to that screen pass he took 70+ yards to the house vs. KC in '05. Man, he made the defensive players look like they were walking. He has blinding acceleration and his top speed is as good or better than any WR in the league.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;306194]You might want to look at yourself. In the last two years with the Traiders he has only had 11 TD's.

On the other hand Santana in the last two years with us has had 15 TD's.

Moss hasen't done shit since he's been in the black/shit hole. Santana on the other hand has been more reliable and productive. You forgot to mention RM has been in the leaque quite a few more years.....?

Santana OVER that LOOSER Randy I'm not into right now ANYDAY OF THE WEEK.[/QUOTE]

Oh your right so if RM never scores another touchdawn again SM will catch up to him in 7 years. I hope your not holding your breath.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=Mattyk72;305882]I agree, but if you want to compare their careers there's simply no comparing them. Randy has had a Hall of Fame career, I don't think the same could be said of Santana.[/quote]

My point on this thread is obvious but seriously. Santana Moss does not belong in the same breath as Randy Moss. I bleed Burgandy and Gold but anyone who honestly thinks our guy is anywhere near Randy needs psycological help.

BTW. Last year Randy sucked and our guy sucked. For a point of reference look at career stats, look at one year stats, look at total touchdowns look at one year touchdowns. Need I continue.....

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

BTW Santana has been injured just as much as Randy with 4 less years.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=12thMan;305995]Conversely, how can you not take Moss' production into consideration with Brunell throwing to him. Not that Brunell is terrible, but he's not exactly known for throwing the long ball either.

TOs catches and TDs mean nothing to me if he leads the league in drops.[/quote]

You have a point. Moss and JC were out of sync too. But RM has over 100 td's. Not too many wr's in the history of the NFL can say that.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=hooskins;305998]Good point. I personally dont think Santana is the best, nor do I think he is better than R.Moss was in his prime. As of now though? Santana owns this competition. Plus you dont have to deal with all that extra bullshit that comes with Randy.

However, I do feel that Santana needs to validate him this next year to clearly establish he is a elite receiver. Even during the 05 season he was streaky at times. Some amazing games, a couple with low numbers. I guess that applies with many receivers, and that fact that he started getting tripled has something to do with it, but I still feel to be considered one of the BEST he must perform at a very high level consistently, for several years. I think he is almost there, this next season will show.[/quote]

excellent point right now no contest i b/c of his less character issues would take moss santana moss didnt mean to say that in a bond james bond kind of way

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=gabe1984;305988]he's not in the same category as chad johnson? and you said he wasn't a good number 1 receiver, that's just bogus.[/quote]

Chad Johnson has caught 90+ balls 4 years in a row. Plus he never ever gets hurt. Sorry but Chad is the better wr.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=hesscl34;306009]Brunell to Moss..... oh the memories <sigh>[/quote]


sniffle sniffle sniffle

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=gabe1984;305988]he's not in the same category as chad johnson? and you said he wasn't a good number 1 receiver, that's just bogus.[/quote]

and i never said he wasn't a good #1. i said i think sm is a very very good #2 wr.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

How did Santana get grouped with Chad Johnson?

This is nuts.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;306253]and i never said he wasn't a good #1. i said i think sm is a very very good #2 wr.[/quote]


and a very good number one as well

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;306256]and a very good number one as well[/quote]

i think santana has to come back big this year and i think he will. but what kinda bothers me is that he trains down in fla. he should be here throwing w/ jc right now so they have the timing down. now is the time to work out all the kinks. last year the two of them were just not on the same page. but i'm sure everything will take care of itself.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;306263]i think santana has to come back big this year and i think he will. but what kinda bothers me is that he trains down in fla. he should be here throwing w/ jc right now so they have the timing down. now is the time to work out all the kinks. last year the two of them were just not on the same page. but i'm sure everything will take care of itself.[/quote]


it will just wait and see

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

All hail Randy Moss, because he is truly the greatest there ever was, is, and ever will be! He is the greatest in the galaxy, no wait the entire universe. Yeah we should all bow down to him, and give him human sacrifices, as well as rights to our first born.

Get the hell outta here! There will be someone better than him if there isn't already, and there will be someone better than that guy.

I have been involved in similar arguments the past few days and have come to the realization that it is childish. You might as well argue with each other about "my daddy can beat up your daddy". That conversation might actually have a little bit more merrit.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=angryssg;306278]All hail Randy Moss, because he is truly the greatest there ever was, is, and ever will be! He is the greatest in the galaxy, no wait the entire universe. Yeah we should all bow down to him, and give him human sacrifices, as well as rights to our first born.

Get the hell outta here! There will be someone better than him if there isn't already, and there will be someone better than that guy.

I have been involved in similar arguments the past few days and have come to the realization that it is childish. You might as well argue with each other about "my daddy can beat up your daddy". That conversation might actually have a little bit more merrit.[/quote]


nice comparision

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=angryssg;306278]All hail Randy Moss, because he is truly the greatest there ever was, is, and ever will be! He is the greatest in the galaxy, no wait the entire universe. Yeah we should all bow down to him, and give him human sacrifices, as well as rights to our first born.

Get the hell outta here! There will be someone better than him if there isn't already, and there will be someone better than that guy.

I have been involved in similar arguments the past few days and have come to the realization that it is childish. You might as well argue with each other about "my daddy can beat up your daddy". That conversation might actually have a little bit more merrit.[/quote]

It's the offseason. Personally I need some football almost as bad as I need food and water.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;306285]It's the offseason. Personally I need some football almost as bad as I need food and water.[/quote]

I need football as well, but some of the topics we get stuck on are freakin retarded.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=angryssg;306287]I need football as well, but some of the topics we get stuck on are freakin retarded.[/quote]


Including lumping a guy who isn't half as good as Gary Clark with a guaranteed Hall of Famer.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;306290]Including lumping a guy who isn't half as good as Gary Clark with a guaranteed Hall of Famer.[/quote]

My daddy can whoop your daddys ass.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=angryssg;306294]My daddy can whoop your daddys ass.[/quote]

Nice digression. Is Santana your daddy?

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;306297]Nice digression. Is Santana your daddy?[/quote]

You guys are killing me! Hahaha
All hail Moss (I'm not specifying the first name so I don't draw the ire of either of you:thumb:)

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;306297]Nice digression. Is Santana your daddy?[/quote]

Only if he want's to adopt a 28 year old white guy who is the same height and weight.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;306253]and i never said he wasn't a good #1. i said i think sm is a very very good #2 wr.[/quote]

skins fan, you said that santana moss is not a pure #1 receiver, that's bogus

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=gabe1984;306420]skins fan, you said that santana moss is not a pure #1 receiver, that's bogus[/quote]

correct. and i stand by that. how can u say santana is a pure #1 when in 6 years he has broken 1000+ yards twice?? sorry but he 's not in the upper class of wr's in the league. i would put him in the 2nd tier of wr's. and that's not a bad thing and i'm not knocking him cause i love the guy and i'm glad he's a redskin. i hope he takes off and has an 05 type of year.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

I can say that Santana Moss is pure number one receiver very easily. Santana Moss is a pure number one receiver. This guy was misused by the Jets, he was like the third string receiver there, then he comes to DC and given the chance to be number one, he tore it up. I mean after watching the '05 season, how can you say he's not a pure number one receiver? The other seasons he hasnt been given the chance, or he was hurt.

Re: Santana vs. Randy
 

[quote=skinsfan69;306450]correct. and i stand by that. how can u say santana is a pure #1 when in 6 years he has broken 1000+ yards twice?? sorry but he 's not in the upper class of wr's in the league. i would put him in the 2nd tier of wr's. and that's not a bad thing and i'm not knocking him cause i love the guy and i'm glad he's a redskin. i hope he takes off and has an 05 type of year.[/quote]

Well in 7 seasons Reggie Wayne has had only three 1000+ seasons. I would consider him a number one.