Re: The Silver Lining From Today's Cloud
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;376960]Plus, another pivotal forced fumble that nearly saved/won the game for us. Too bad it went unrewarded.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Strangely, the "Andre Carter sucks" crowd has been pretty quiet lately.

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[quote=GTripp0012;376936]Jacobs is better, Barber is better, Westbrook is better.
[/quote]

they're neck and neck in yards and tds (with portis having the edge in yards over all of them) and portis started the year splitting time with betts, played behind an o line completely wrecked with injuries, and they all have the advantage of playing against defenses that will consistently protect against a deep ball... whereas all of the defenses we face know we want to pound the ball... may as well be facing 4-5 fronts and still getting the job done. That's the only reason he doesn't have the YPC... well, that and the fact that he hasn't been healthy in two years... 2 weeks ago he had his first two consecutive days at practice in almost 2 full years...

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you couldn't be any farther from reason.

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[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;376965]Yup. Strangely, the "Andre Carter sucks" crowd has been pretty quiet lately.[/QUOTE]

As well as the "Portis Sucks" crowd as well.

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[QUOTE=canthetuna;376966]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you couldn't be any farther from reason.[/QUOTE]
I couldnt agree more.
Portis is the class of the NFC east Running backs.


Btw, Lets give James Thrash some credit for coming through for us.

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That's Redskin football, the O steps up, and the D falls short.

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[quote=GTripp0012;376936]Jacobs is better, Barber is better, Westbrook is better.[/quote]

If you're simply basing that argument on this season, then I guess all of those backs are better than Tomlinson too...

An argument can be made that Westbrook is a better offensive weapon, but he's not a great runner between the tackles and his blocking is suspect. Barber runs so hard that there's a good chance he'll be used up in three seasons. And saying Jacobs is a better back when he's already been injured in his first season as a starter is a bit unrealistic.

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portis - awesome... betts should not get, or gotten the ball IMO.

JC - very impressive to say the least

Offense opening up - much better, yet still a few calls i didnt agree with, like the draw on 3rd in the red zone that didnt help our cause.

Godfrey - make those 2 picks we win, good effort tho.

Springs - solid all around.

O-Line - ge tmore consistent in Pass pro.

McCardel - made that catch on the sidelines no doubt, fuck a juggle he had possesion before going out, horrible call, killed our momentum on that drive for the lead. fucking refs.... great addition.



lot of work needed for a win next week, if we play solid D, we can do it.

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[quote=SouperMeister;376939]None of those guys you named are running behind an O-line that lost two starters on one side.[/quote]O-line or not, the success is still there. Fabini and Wade are comparable to the players who are starters on those lines anyway, so the point is moot.

The point is that they are all better runners, more powerful, more elusive etc. I'm merely pointing this out, not suggesting something ridiculous. Year in and year out (save Jacobs, who is in his first year as a starter), those guys have consistently higher YPC than Portis.

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[QUOTE=skinsguy;376970]As well as the "Portis Sucks" crowd as well.[/QUOTE]

Yup, there aren't too many people talking trash about the back with the 3rd most rushing yards in the entire league.

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[quote=canthetuna;376966]they're neck and neck in yards and tds (with portis having the edge in yards over all of them) and portis started the year splitting time with betts, played behind an o line completely wrecked with injuries, and they all have the advantage of playing against defenses that will consistently protect against a deep ball... whereas all of the defenses we face know we want to pound the ball... may as well be facing 4-5 fronts and still getting the job done. That's the only reason he doesn't have the YPC... well, that and the fact that he hasn't been healthy in two years... 2 weeks ago he had his first two consecutive days at practice in almost 2 full years...

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you couldn't be any farther from reason.[/quote]Portis' YPC in Washington: A respectable 4.09 (4.2 this season)

Westbrook's YPC in Philly: An obsured 4.7! (4.8 this season!)

Barber in Dallas: 4.6 YPC (5.4!!!!! this season)

And for kicks, Jacobs is averaging 5.6 YPC this year as a starter.

You can make all the excuses you want for the guy, but you might as well save them. The point is not to show how ineffective Portis is. His production levels here have [I]always[/I] been very respectable.

The point is that the "reason" you speak of definitely supports my case. The three teams in our division all have great running games, and we do not. The back is only a percentage of that running game, but the biggest percentage. Portis just hasn't been as effective as the other three guys. He just hasn't. That's not really my opinion, that's easy to see.

My opinion is that going foward, those three guys will continue to average higher than Portis because they are quicker and/or more powerful runners with better vision.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;377014]Yup, there aren't too many people talking trash about the back with the 3rd most rushing yards in the entire league.[/quote]Dude's been on fire the last two weeks.

He's really got to stop dancing in short yardage situations though. It's OK to hit the wrong hole if you hit it hard and get the first. That's really the only criticism I have for the guy.

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[quote=Southpaw;377000]If you're simply basing that argument on this season, then I guess all of those backs are better than Tomlinson too...

An argument can be made that Westbrook is a better offensive weapon, but he's not a great runner between the tackles and his blocking is suspect. Barber runs so hard that there's a good chance he'll be used up in three seasons. And saying Jacobs is a better back when he's already been injured in his first season as a starter is a bit unrealistic.[/quote]If the standard for Westbrook's between tackles running is applied to Portis...lets just say that I wouldn't want to speak so lowly of a Redskin. Westbrook is an excellent between the tackles runner. Check some running splits....or something. The Eagles lead the NFC East this year in YPC between the tackles by a pretty big margin.

Again, I said that I believe Jacobs is better, but it's really up for debate whether or not he can keep up this pace. I think he can have a career average around 4.7 or 4.8. Portis isn't good enough for that. Over 4 years behind a very solid OL, he's posted respectable YPC numbers. Behind the same line, Westbrook, Barber, and Jacobs would all be averaging more than CP.

Then again, it's not like guys the caliber of those RBs grow on trees.

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[QUOTE=GTripp0012;377016]My opinion is that going foward, those three guys will continue to average higher than Portis because they are quicker and/or more powerful runners with better vision.[/QUOTE]

They're also playing in offenses that are much more balanced and have good passing attacks. Teams look at the Redskins and say, "If we stop Portis, we win." Teams look at Dallas and the NYG and don't say, "We've got to stop Barber" or "We've got to stop Jacobs." Moreover, Barber and Jacobs look like very good backs, but their body of work is pretty limited. I'll give you Westbrook, dude's insane and a bigger threat than Portis.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;377022]They're also playing in offenses that are much more balanced and have good passing attacks. Teams look at the Redskins and say, "If we stop Portis, we win." Teams look at Dallas and the NYG and don't say, "We've got to stop Barber" or "We've got to stop Jacobs." Moreover, Barber and Jacobs look like very good backs, but their body of work is pretty limited. I'll give you Westbrook, dude's insane and a bigger threat than Portis.[/quote]But we certainly have the horses to be balanced.

If a team had a big hole in pass coverage, you better bet that Al and JC would try to exploit it. Teams really can't afford to stack the run against any team anymore because every team has an able QB.

Except Minnesota...and Tennessee.

Their (Barber and Jacobs) body of work is definitely limited. At this point though, we know what we are having in Portis. The early returns on Jacobs and Barber are incredibly impressive. I can only assume they will continue (which is an assumption, nevertheless).

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[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;376965]Yup. Strangely, the "Andre Carter sucks" crowd has been pretty quiet lately.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, very strange indeed. The guy plays well, people don't complain. The guy doesn't play well, and people do complain.

Who'd have figured that?

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[quote=GTripp0012;377025]But we certainly have the horses to be balanced.

If a team had a big hole in pass coverage, you better bet that Al and JC would try to exploit it. Teams really can't afford to stack the run against any team anymore because every team has an able QB.

Except Minnesota...and Tennessee.

Their (Barber and Jacobs) body of work is definitely limited. At this point though, we know what we are having in Portis. The early returns on Jacobs and Barber are incredibly impressive. I can only assume they will continue (which is an assumption, nevertheless).[/quote]Put Portis in the Dallas offense with their huge O-line and great passing weapons and he puts up 1,600 yards every year. The most notable thing about Jacobs is how injury prone he has been despite relatively few carries. I'd still take Portis over either. I've already said that Westbrook is a great fit for Philly because they spread the field, and run a ton of draws and screens to get him the ball in space. He would not survive the pounding that Portis is asked to absorb in this offense.

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there is nothing postive when you lose especially at home.

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[quote=GTripp0012;377020]If the standard for Westbrook's between tackles running is applied to Portis...lets just say that I wouldn't want to speak so lowly of a Redskin. Westbrook is an excellent between the tackles runner. Check some running splits....or something. The Eagles lead the NFC East this year in YPC between the tackles by a pretty big margin.

Again, I said that I believe Jacobs is better, but it's really up for debate whether or not he can keep up this pace. I think he can have a career average around 4.7 or 4.8. Portis isn't good enough for that. Over 4 years behind a very solid OL, he's posted respectable YPC numbers. [B]Behind the same line, Westbrook, Barber, and Jacobs would all be averaging more than CP[/B].

Then again, it's not like guys the caliber of those RBs grow on trees.[/quote]

Maybe I shouldn't have use the term "between the tackles" when referring to Westbrook. The Eagles coaching staff(like most good coaches) design runs that suit Westbrook's ability. When Westbrook runs between the tackles, it's usually a quick draw that was setup as a pass, with a gaping hole in the short middle of the field. Just watching the game yesterday, I noticed more than half of his runs were called from a spread formation. Being a shifty back in a pass first offense definitely benefits his rushing totals, and since people seem to act like Portis' two seasons in Denver don't account for anything(since "he was a system back"); Westbrook can't truly be judged as a rusher until he's in a rush first offense. But I am willing to concede that Westbrook is a better offensive weapon, and a better fit for the Eagles scheme.

And automatically assuming that Westbrook, Barber, and Jacobs would do better on this team than Portis is pure speculation with no factual basis. Westbrook would have to change his style about as much as Portis did to fit into the Redskins offensive philosophy. Jacobs looks solid, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when he's already displayed durability issues in his first season as a starter. The injury may have been an anomaly, but that remains to be seen. And while I think Barber runs harder than Portis, I also think he'd end up being run into the ground within a few seasons in this offense.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;377014]Yup, there aren't too many people talking trash about the back with the 3rd most rushing yards in the entire league.[/quote]

Let us not forget it's all been behind a "makeshift" O-Line as well! Great effort by CP and the O Line the last 2 weeks.

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[QUOTE=Beemnseven;377027]Yeah, very strange indeed. The guy plays well, people don't complain. The guy doesn't play well, and people do complain.

Who'd have figured that?[/QUOTE]

I know that you were leading the charge on Carter so you're going to defend the Carter-bashing, but why are you going to be a smart-ass? "People" weren't just complaining about his lack of production, they were saying just how awful he is, that it was another boneheaded move by the front office, etc. "People" had given up on the guy and conclusively decided how good/bad he was 6 games into his arrival in D.C. I should know by now that most Redskins fans are impulsive, hastily judge things, and tend to overstate their cases, but I'm still tired of it. The Carter-haters who predicted his "bust-ness" are wrong and now that they have some egg on their faces, they are silent.

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If we can somehow make it to the playoffs despite the rash of injuries and get some of those players back including Thomas. Then I say watch out, because of all the playing time the backups have put up, we will be so deep and game ready
which we will make us dangerous. Some of those players will be rested and if healthy around playoff time, I say watch out!! The key of course is making the playoffs. That to me is the silver lining.

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[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;377436]If we can somehow make it to the playoffs despite the rash of injuries and get some of those players back including Thomas. Then I say watch out, because of all the playing time the backups have put up, we will be so deep and game ready
which we will make us dangerous. Some of those players will be rested and if healthy around playoff time, I say watch out!! The key of course is making the playoffs. That to me is the silver lining.[/QUOTE]

That's sort of how I see it too. I hate seeing so many injuries, but allows playing experience for the backups. Even if we don't make it to the playoffs, if we end the season at something like 9-7 or better, I'd call that a pretty good accomplishment for what this team has went through this year.

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I hate to keep harping on the Andre Carter thing, but his 7 sacks, 3 FFs, and safety are even more impressive when one considers that we rarely blitz and Griffin is the only other D-lineman who sometimes draws double-teams.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;377653]I hate to keep harping on the Andre Carter thing, but his 7 sacks, 3 FFs, and safety are even more impressive when one considers that we rarely blitz and Griffin is the only other D-lineman who sometimes draws double-teams.[/quote]

Good luck trying to get any of the Hater-Aid people to say anything positive about him.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;377653]I hate to keep harping on the Andre Carter thing, but his 7 sacks, 3 FFs, and safety are even more impressive when one considers that we rarely blitz and Griffin is the only other D-lineman who sometimes draws double-teams.[/quote]Carter has been stellar since the last quarter of 2006. The thing that I've really come to admire about him is his motor - the guy gives 110% every play.

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I like andre. makes big plays at times.

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;377653]I hate to keep harping on the Andre Carter thing, but his 7 sacks, 3 FFs, and safety are even more impressive when one considers that we rarely blitz and Griffin is the only other D-lineman who sometimes draws double-teams.[/quote]Carter is miles and miles beyond last year, but I still can't just turn a blind eye to the glaring flaws in his game.

As far as sacks go, his production speaks for itself. I just feel that there is more a defensive end has to do than run up field all the time, and Carter is lacking that. I hold out hope that he can improve in run defense as well as develop a solid second pass move to ensure that QBs stay contained in the pocket.

For every sack, there's three plays where he is ten yards upfield doing no good, and that's the knock on him.

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[QUOTE=GTripp0012;377706]Carter is miles and miles beyond last year, but I still can't just turn a blind eye to the glaring flaws in his game.

As far as sacks go, his production speaks for itself. I just feel that there is more a defensive end has to do than run up field all the time, and Carter is lacking that. I hold out hope that he can improve in run defense as well as develop a solid second pass move to ensure that QBs stay contained in the pocket.

For every sack, there's three plays where he is ten yards upfield doing no good, and that's the knock on him.[/QUOTE]

It's definitely true that he has weaknessses and often runs himself out of the play, but it's not as though the guy doesn't have moves, strength, or agility. He's been getting better at tracking down backs and breaking up screens. His game against the Saints and Reggie Bush last year comes to mind. Even if he is a liability against the run, I'll take that significant flaw if it means that we get a guy who is on pace for double-digit sacks. When was the last time we had a DE get 10+ sacks? I could be wrong, but I think the last guy was Bruce Smith in 2000 (a crazy 7 years ago).

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[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;377711]It's definitely true that he has weaknessses and often runs himself out of the play, but it's not as though the guy doesn't have moves, strength, or agility. He's been getting better at tracking down backs and breaking up screens. His game against the Saints and Reggie Bush last year comes to mind. Even if he is a liability against the run, I'll take that significant flaw if it means that we get a guy who is on pace for double-digit sacks. When was the last time we had a DE get 10+ sacks? I could be wrong, but I think the last guy was Bruce Smith in 2000 (a crazy 7 years ago).[/quote]The sacks are much appreciated. For what it's worth, he's probably the most prolific pass rusher this franchise has had in a decade.

I'm just worried that we can't stop any QB from running at all right now, lack of mobility be damned. Usually they escape to the left where they either get a clean throw off or run for 15 yards before Fletcher late hits to give 15 more. The big issue is, that these are designed passing plays and Carter is getting beaten by the run on them. If we can't stop the run when an offense is trying to throw on us, it seems to make sense that we can't stop it when they try to run on us.

Run defense is a big issue for me right now. Yeah, Romo is probably going to carve us up in the air this week, but when we have ST in there this pass D can stop anyone deep. Carter plays well into our pass defense because if you try to go down the field on us, Carter usually gets to you and makes you pay for it. I still have hope he can get to Romo this week and give us a fighting chance.

But I have been impressed with his (Carter) play diagnosing ability this year. It's a bit ironic in my opinion that AC seems the most confused when teams straight drop or run right at him, because he sure isn't fooled by draws or bootlegs or trick plays this season.

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[quote=SouperMeister;376905]Portis is the man - I hope I don't hear ANYONE saying they prefer Betts after seeing Clinton put this team on his back the last couple of games. The guy is an absolute warrior.[/quote]

I agree. If the other players on offense follow his lead and play with the same drive & intensity- the offense would be able to dominate. It seems like every other player on offense is playing scared.

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[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;377653]I hate to keep harping on the Andre Carter thing, but his 7 sacks, 3 FFs, and safety are even more impressive when one considers that we rarely blitz and Griffin is the only other D-lineman who sometimes draws double-teams.[/QUOTE]

yay me! :)

[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/152483-post6.html[/url]

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[QUOTE=SmootSmack;377870]yay me! :)

[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/152483-post6.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Nice call on both guys.

I personally really wanted Kampmann too. I thought he'd be great, but I didn't realize he'd be this good.

[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/9305-free-agent-des.html?highlight=Aaron+Kampman#post125918post125918[/url]