Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

Fair enough. I think Norv can be a good head coach with all the pieces are around him. Is he a leader of men/motivator/disiplinarian/ass kicker? No.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;556924]Sorry, Marty built the team Norv is using, and last year the barely made the playoffs, DESPITE playing in an extremely weak division. Norv, is a good OC, but a terrible HC. Same with Wade Phillips, except he is a very good DC. From the comments this has been discussed many times.[/quote]

Marty couldn't win a playoff game with most of those players and the offense wasn't as good. And either you make the playoffs or you don't. It doesn't matter how you got in. The fact is they got in and won a game w/out one of their best players and the year before they got to the AFC Champoinship. Those are facts. I personally think Marty is a better head coach than Norv but that doesn't mean Norv can't coach.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

I think its simple. The Redskins have to make the playoffs. The Skins were 8-8 last year and if they won some of the games they should have they would of made it last season. So going into 2009 season I think Snyder wants to see some improvement. The next goal usually for a 8-8 team is trying to make the playoffs. This team does have enough talent to do it if certain players step up and if Zorn gets better as a playcaller. If the Redskins do not make the playoffs I expect a new coach to come in for 2010.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

Duhhh, I just realized the answer :doh:

NOT GET FIRED.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;556936]Fair enough. I think Norv can be a good head coach with all the pieces are around him.[/quote]

Guess that means Barry Switzer was a good coach using that criteria.

A lot of guys can be good coaches when all the pieces are in place. That's really not saying much for the coach's abilities.

With all that talent the Chargers are just 19-13 the last 2 years under Norv.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

The team must look better offensively.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;556958]Guess that means Barry Switzer was a good coach using that criteria.

A lot of guys can be good coaches when all the pieces are in place. That's really not saying much for the coach's abilities.

With all that talent the Chargers are just 19-13 the last 2 years under Norv.[/quote]

Norv has not been very good in San Diego imo but he is a better coach then most Redskin fans give credit for.

Looking back id love to see what Norv would of done if he wasnt canned in 2000 with a 7-6 record here in Washington. I think if things went different in 2000 and Snyder didnt stick his nose into the QB position we could have had a different outlook for the future. The Skins were 11-7 and 7-6 in Turners last 2 seasons in DC. I honestly think the Skins would of had a shot for a Championship over the next couple years if things panned out different.

I think Norv would be looked on as a better coach if it wasnt for one injury that cost the Redskins. That was when Brad Johnson hurt his knee on MNF vs the Tennessee Titans in 2000. He missed 3 games and when he came back he was rusty. After the Giants game where he was benched for George all hell broke lose. Snyder canned Turner because he wanted to start Brad Johnson the next game and I really believe if Turner wouldnt of been canned we might of won a Super Bowl instead of the Tampa Bay Bucs in 2002-03.

Those Redskin teams in 1999 and 2000 werent great but Norv got the most out of those teams and did one hell of a coaching job imo.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

As for the Norv question, he's proven repeatedly since leaving DC what type of coach he is. Great coordinator, poor head coach. If anything, it should show you what his reputation is when Jerry Jones didn't hire him, even after courting him publicly, before he hired Phillips, not that the Phillips hire has turned out much better.

Back on topic, I think it all depends on how they finish. Another 6-2 start, 2-6 finish (or worse) and he's gone. Going 9-7 and missing the playoffs will keep him around. Anything above that and obviously he's going to stick around.

I'd expect, if a change is made, that Shanahan would be the frontrunner, followed by Gruden then Cowher. Snyder wants a high powered, high scoring, fun to watch offense. That's his motivation behind the Zorn hire, the Cutler & Sanchez chase and the fact we've drafted so many QB in his tenure as the owner.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

I think Zorn will get two more years. I don't really think he'll get fired next year unless he's 5-11 or worse. I think Jason Campbell can be the scapegoat if the offense doesn't improve. I don't believe that's the case, I think Campbell is real good and just hasn't had the pieces around him and the time to learn an offense in order to show what he can do. I hope we don't have to worry about any of this and I don't think we will because I think we will have a good season next year.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

We are used to the high scoring offenses in D.C and if Zorn doesnt show that he can score points he wont last. I'd like to see us bring in a OC from S.D or N.O to run the offense. Especially one from S.D who is a 'Air Coryell' descendant ala Gibbs. maybe Dan Henning from Miami. I say N.O because they do more with less and lead the league in offense despite not having many big name WR's or a great Oline.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

In order for zorn to keep his job he must get us a playoff birth and at least one playoff win, most likely two wins if he gets fired expect holmgren to be our next coach just to keep it with a familiar system

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

yeah a deep playoff run will save him. hopefully we can avoid the late season collapse like last yr. 12 pts a game wont cut it.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=Nflnick11;556975]In order for zorn to keep his job he must get us a playoff birth and at least one playoff win, most likely two wins if he gets fired expect holmgren to be our next coach just to keep it with a familiar system[/quote]

I'm surprised at the number of people who think that Synder is so impatient/impetuous that he would fire a coach that IMPROVED! No way Snyder fires Zorn coming off of a playoff year. If we get to the playoffs we're going to have to win at least 9 games. That would mean that Zorn's career record will be over .500. I don't see any scenario that Snyder can justify that firing.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

hopefully the offense shows improvement and we wont have to worry about it. Thomas and Kelly need to break out this season.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;556958]Guess that means Barry Switzer was a good coach using that criteria.

A lot of guys can be good coaches when all the pieces are in place. That's really not saying much for the coach's abilities.

With all that talent the Chargers are just 19-13 the last 2 years under Norv.[/quote]

What would you rather have.

A 13-3 season and not advance in the playoffs....like the 07 Cowboys? Or the 06 Chargers?

Or a 19-13 team that have advanced two years in a row. One year they're QB was playing on one leg and their best player was hurt, the next year they played w/out their best defensive player.

I'll take the team that advances every time. As I said, Norv has been solid in SD and his side of the ball has flourished.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

I believe a 10-6 record can get us into the playoffs. With our acquisitions we made in the offseason, plus second year in the Zorn system, Zorn-Campbell era really begins to stride. It'll happen, barring 2 or more long-term (4+ weeks) injuries on the O-line.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=Brian Orakpo;556963]Norv has not been very good in San Diego imo but he is a better coach then most Redskin fans give credit for.

Looking back id love to see what Norv would of done if he wasnt canned in 2000 with a 7-6 record here in Washington. I think if things went different in 2000 and Snyder didnt stick his nose into the QB position we could have had a different outlook for the future. The Skins were 11-7 and 7-6 in Turners last 2 seasons in DC. I honestly think the Skins would of had a shot for a Championship over the next couple years if things panned out different.

I think Norv would be looked on as a better coach if it wasnt for one injury that cost the Redskins. That was when Brad Johnson hurt his knee on MNF vs the Tennessee Titans in 2000. He missed 3 games and when he came back he was rusty. After the Giants game where he was benched for George all hell broke lose. Snyder canned Turner because he wanted to start Brad Johnson the next game and I really believe if Turner wouldnt of been canned we might of won a Super Bowl instead of the Tampa Bay Bucs in 2002-03.

Those Redskin teams in 1999 and 2000 werent great but Norv got the most out of those teams and did one hell of a coaching job imo.[/quote]

Although firing Turner w/ a 7-6 record was stupid as hell, I don't think the season would've finished much different and it was time for a change.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

Norv is barely scraping by in a division that features the Raiders and Chiefs (who should be improved over the next few years). I don't know what kind of coach he is now, but as I've said in the past I was around him a lot his last three years here and he was so clueless and had absolutely no control of the team.

As for Zorn, he needs to finish with a winning record and probably a playoff appearance (maybe even a win) to stay

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

I'd say mainly have the team show improvement. meaning the offense is more consistant and the defense continues to do well with the new additions.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;556997]Norv is barely scraping by in a division that features the Raiders and Chiefs (who should be improved over the next few years). I don't know what kind of coach he is now, but as I've said in the past I was around him a lot his last three years here and he was so clueless and had absolutely no control of the team.

As for Zorn, he needs to finish with a winning record and probably a playoff appearance (maybe even a win) to stay[/quote]

A former player (WR) who joined the Redskins later in his career told me that Turner was a great offensive mind who was completely overmatched as a head coach. He said Norv was way too timid and nice of a guy to be a head coach but he would always be a great coordinator.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

I think that it is crazy that people are considering this Zorn's make or break year when he hasn't even had the time to coach his rookie draft class to a second season.

The only way you can consider this a make or break year for Zorn is if you had expectations for the Skins to hire a big name coach after Gibbs left.

We never should have had Zorn as a head coach in the first place if that is the case.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

Well the chargers owner fired martty after he went 14-2 but lost his first playoff game, and I would say that dan snyder is a more impatient owner than the chargers owner so that's why I say JZ has to win a playoff game to keep his job, paintrain..

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=Nflnick11;557063]Well the chargers owner fired martty after he went 14-2 but lost his first playoff game, and I would say that dan snyder is a more impatient owner than the chargers owner so that's why I say JZ has to win a playoff game to keep his job, paintrain..[/quote]

Again what current evidence do you have to say DS is a more impatient owner? I don't really know SD that well, but Marty's firing at SD was absolutely crazy. Gibbs went 5-11 after reaching the playoffs, then reached the playoffs BARELY and could have received an extension, yes he was JG but if DS was as impatient as people make him out to be, why would JG have survived 2 non playoff seasons???

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;557016]I think that it is crazy that people are considering this Zorn's make or break year when he hasn't even had the time to coach his rookie draft class to a second season.

The only way you can consider this a make or break year for Zorn is if you had expectations for the Skins to hire a big name coach after Gibbs left.

We never should have had Zorn as a head coach in the first place if that is the case.[/quote]

Let's say this season is a total disaster. I don't see that happening but for the sake of this discussion let's say they go 5-11 or worse. In that situation could you not see Zorn being on the hot seat especially if someone like Holmgren is sitting out there?

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

Joe Gibb's had three super bowls! Zorn has what? Unless he makes the Super Bowl or goes 12 and 4 he is out. Its not right but DS will not be able to resist the temptation of going after Cower, Holmgren, Shanahan, or Gruden, heck maybe even Parcells!!!!!!!! Jerry Jones and DS will be in a bidding war for one of these coaches......

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;557072]Let's say this season is a total disaster. I don't see that happening but for the sake of this discussion let's say they go 5-11 or worse. In that situation could you not see Zorn being on the hot seat especially if someone like Holmgren is sitting out there?[/quote]Holmgren would never take the job if we fired Zorn though. Shanahan or Gruden would take whatever they can get.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=ronnieo;557073]Joe Gibb's had three super bowls! Zorn has what? Unless he makes the Super Bowl or goes 12 and 4 he is out. Its not right but DS will not be able to resist the temptation of going after Cower, Holmgren, Shanahan, or Gruden, heck maybe even Parcells!!!!!!!! Jerry Jones and DS will be in a bidding war for one of these coaches......[/quote]

So 10-6 or 11-5 won't be good enough?

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=Paintrain;557011]A former player (WR) who joined the Redskins later in his career told me that Turner was a great offensive mind who was completely overmatched as a head coach. He said Norv was way too timid and nice of a guy to be a head coach but he would always be a great coordinator.[/quote]

Way overmatched. He has never been able to control his players, not in Washington, from what Jerry Rice has said-not in Oakland, and who knows about San Diego. He couldn't multi-task, had limited knowledge of what any unit beyond offense (and really just the passing game) was doing. It's one thing to delegate, like Gibbs did. But at least Gibbs was involved and aware of what was happening across the entire team. Norv was Spurrier-esque in his involvement, or lack thereof. He had no sense of what it meant to "rally the troops" or other intangible qualities necessary to be a head coach. He lost a lot of respect, what little he still had, when he barely gave Westbrook a slap on the wrist after the Stephen Davis incident. He let several veteran superstars (Hall of Famers) walk all over him, and in many cases divide the locker room. Honestly, he and Spurrier were just totally clueless. The difference was that Spurrier didn't seem to care. I think Norv cared but just was way in over his head. Maybe he's improved now, but he was a total joke here.

I hope Zorn doesn't follow the same path.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

Zorn doesn't seem to be cut from the Spurrier/Norv mold. Of course it may be too early to tell but he seems to be too smart to go down that same road.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

if all of that is true about Norv, then how in the hell does he keep getting jobs? being a nice guy only goes so far...

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

Getting the job relies on interviewing, and explaining the circumstances of his "failures". Every indication is Norv is a good guy, and cares. He is one of those guys whose potential exceeds what he has shown so far. I think it is called the Peter Principle where someone goes one step higher than they are really qualified for.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=dmek25;557083]if all of that is true about Norv, then how in the hell does he keep getting jobs? being a nice guy only goes so far...[/quote]

I don't get it either. My only guess is that he's improved. But I think more realistically what happens is he goes from head coaching failure to successful coordinator and GMs/Owners see the successful coordinator, not the head coaching failure.

He's kept a good Chargers team afloat. Although they've gone from 14-2 in Marty's last year to 11-5 to 8-8 the past two seasons. But it's not like you can give Turner the Detroit head coaching job and expect him to turn it around.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=dmek25;557083]if all of that is true about Norv, then how in the hell does he keep getting jobs? being a nice guy only goes so far...[/quote]

I think it's fair to say that there was pretty much universal shock when he was offered the Chargers' position, and not just a few people rationalized it as being AJ Smith's way of sticking it to Marty just a little bit more (Marty not only succeeded Norv in Washington in 2001, but he was also given the head coaching job in San Diego in 2002 after Norv served as the Chargers' offensive coordinator the year before). Of course, one would think Smith is too smart a guy to have hired a coach solely for spite, but there is also little doubt that the acrimony that had developed between him and Marty reached a level uncommon even in the high-pressured NFL FO world.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;557082]Zorn doesn't seem to be cut from the Spurrier/Norv mold. Of course it may be too early to tell but he seems to be too smart to go down that same road.[/quote]

Yeah, Zorn is a nice guy, but apparently he can really crack the whip when it's necessary. Not the case with Norv and especially Spurrier. Apparently his control of the locker room, or lack thereof, was a total joke.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

Has anyone said "Play racquetball with Dan Snyder" yet? I'm just curious.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=GMScud;557124]Yeah, Zorn is a nice guy, but apparently he can really crack the whip when it's necessary. Not the case with Norv and especially Spurrier. Apparently his control of the locker room, or lack thereof, was a total joke.[/quote]

Zorn 'calling out' Portis, for lack of a better term, showed that he wasn't scared to take on a star player. What happened afterward was a bit of backpedaling & it became apparent that Zorn was doing some damage control. Don't know to what extent DS played a part in it, or if Zorn just realized that it didn't help to talk to the press.

Either way, he often showed that he has ideals & standards for his players to live up to in preparing for games. I see him as just about as laid back a guy as norv personally, but he brings more energy to his work & commands more respect by being on top of things. Just my observations.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

[quote=freddyg12;557154]Zorn 'calling out' Portis, for lack of a better term, showed that he wasn't scared to take on a star player. What happened afterward was a bit of backpedaling & it became apparent that Zorn was doing some damage control. Don't know to what extent DS played a part in it, or if Zorn just realized that it didn't help to talk to the press.

Either way, he often showed that he has ideals & standards for his players to live up to in preparing for games. I see him as just about as laid back a guy as norv personally, but he brings more energy to his work & commands more respect by being on top of things. Just my observations.[/quote]

Remember when Zorn took the punter's head off after blowing a snap. I can't remember all the details, but I can't imagine WP or Norv doing that.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

Zorn has to show that his version of the westcoast offense will work in the NFL. His playcalling skills have to stay aggressive play to win, not play to "not lose". Jason Campbell has to have a probowl year.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

I honestly think Zorn will get a legitimate shot.Gibbs taught Snyder that character and loyalty goes far.For those who will bash Gibbs,the locker room was a joke and players didnt have to take responsibility,before he arrived.And the only bright spot of the Taylor incident, is that it brought the locker room tighter together.Gibbs may have not won on stats and records,but other areas he improved.Zorn is a fiery guy,and there will be run-ins with players but just because he wants more wins for the team.As a first year coach he did good compared to averages.See what he does this season it might suprise us all.

Re: What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?
 

good post freddyg12 ,im with you on this one too.