What must Jim Zorn accomplish this season to keep his job?

[KI Skins Fan]

The primary reason I'm thinking about this is because there are four big-time former NFL coaches who will probably be looking to return to coaching next season and I don't think you-know-who can resist hiring a big-name Head Coach. The coaches to whom I'm referring are Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgren, and Mike Shanahan.

To try to answer my own question, I think that, at a minimum, Jim Zorn will need to take this team to the playoffs to keep his job. But that might not be enough. If we back into the playoffs as a wildcard and lose in the first round, I think that Zorn may still lose his job.

I'm suggesting that, with people who Dan Snyder will undoubtedly view as better coaches available, that the bar may be set unrealistically high for Jim Zorn this season.

Other than Zorn guiding the Skins to the second round of the playoffs, there is one other faint hope for DS retaining Zorn and thus maintaining continuity. That is, Snyder could hire Mike Holmgren in an executive capacity to oversee both Vinny and Jim Zorn and to serve as a close advisor to both of them. That might even work.

[CRedskinsRule]

I really don't want any of those four coaches here, and SFRedskins had said that San Fran was looking at Holmgren. Unless Zorn just fails completely this year, meaning primarily unable to adapt through the season, then I would want him to get at least this year and next.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I really don't want any of those four coaches here, and SFRedskins had said that San Fran was looking at Holmgren. Unless Zorn just fails completely this year, meaning primarily unable to adapt through the season, then I would want him to get at least this year and next.

I agree with you but I fear that Dan Snyder may lack the patience to stick with Zorn when there are big-name coaches available.

[Miller101]

Don't forget about Russ Grimm!

And I've said this before and I'll say it again................For Zorn to be successfull has to learn how to run the football and protect his quarterback. I know he was a quarterback at one time, but he should know that throwing the ball every time doesn't work. It never has. And if you are going to throw the ball he should know that the wide recievers need a few seconds to get open. So................you have to give Jason those few seconds. If you don't, then your system sucks and you should watch games on TV.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I agree with you but I fear that Dan Snyder may lack the patience to stick with Zorn when there are big-name coaches available.

Well, I suppose I ought to just agree to disagree now, before we have a long re-hash of the FO. But, dang it the urge is just primal.
3 comments/questions:

Can you show an example that backs up your fear? Every coach that has been fired, has been for cause, except Marty possibly.

When DS hired Zorn, he had to know that the guy had never even been an OC, and would need time to grow into the role.

a lot of naysayers that make the comment about DS firing Zorn, also seem to say that no big name coach will come here. (KI I don't know if you had held both those positions, but it seems to me that that is the typical line of people who generally dislike the FO). If the big 4 would not come here anyway, why would we not keep JZ.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

The primary reason I'm thinking about this is because there are four big-time former NFL coaches who will probably be looking to return to coaching next season and I don't think you-know-who can resist hiring a big-name Head Coach. The coaches to whom I'm referring are Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, Mike Holmgren, and Mike Shanahan.

To try to answer my own question, I think that, at a minimum, Jim Zorn will need to take this team to the playoffs to keep his job. But that might not be enough. If we back into the playoffs as a wildcard and lose in the first round, I think that Zorn may still lose his job.

I'm suggesting that, with people who Dan Snyder will undoubtedly view as better coaches available, that the bar may be set unrealistically high for Jim Zorn this season.

Other than Zorn guiding the Skins to the second round of the playoffs, there is one other faint hope for DS retaining Zorn and thus maintaining continuity. That is, Snyder could hire Mike Holmgren in an executive capacity to oversee both Vinny and Jim Zorn and to serve as a close advisor to both of them. That might even work.

Can people PLEASE stop the Cowher talk??? He's not going to coach here. This man worked for the Rooney's who have one of the best operations going in the NFL. Why would he come and work for Snyder? As for the other guys the only one I could see coming here is Gruden. For the sake of continuity I hope Zorn doesn't get fired, regardless of how the season turns out.

[Eknox]

I say at least give the guy 3 years, according to management he doesn't even have a franchise QB that topped with being a new coach should earn him at least 3 years as long as there is improvement on the previous year. I like Zorn and you have to admire a guy who would take on a D Snyder ran team for his first head coaching gig.

[irish]

No matter what happens, if Zorn is fired after this season the FO is more screwed-up than we think it is.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

...

a lot of naysayers that make the comment about DS firing Zorn, also seem to say that no big name coach will come here. (KI I don't know if you had held both those positions, but it seems to me that that is the typical line of people who generally dislike the FO). If the big 4 would not come here anyway, why would we not keep JZ.

for an example of the above, please see next post in thread! LOL

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Can people PLEASE stop the Cowher talk??? He's not going to coach here. This man worked for the Rooney's who have one of the best operations going in the NFL. Why would he come and work for Snyder? As for the other guys the only one I could see coming here is Gruden. For the sake of continuity I hope Zorn doesn't get fired, regardless of how the season turns out.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Well, I suppose I ought to just agree to disagree now, before we have a long re-hash of the FO. But, dang it the urge is just primal.
3 comments/questions:

Can you show an example that backs up your fear? Every coach that has been fired, has been for cause, except Marty possibly.

When DS hired Zorn, he had to know that the guy had never even been an OC, and would need time to grow into the role.

a lot of naysayers that make the comment about DS firing Zorn, also seem to say that no big name coach will come here. (KI I don't know if you had held both those positions, but it seems to me that that is the typical line of people who generally dislike the FO). If the big 4 would not come here anyway, why would we not keep JZ.

I think that DS was rash in firing both Norv and Marty because he wanted a coach that he found more appealing (Marty and then Spurrier).

Norv took the team to the playoffs the year before he was fired when the Skins hosted a wildcard game and lost by only 1 point in the 2nd round. The year he was fired, the Skins lost a lot of close ones.

After making many changes, Marty took the team to an 8-8 record with Tony Banks at QB. The team was clearly on the upswing, but DS was in love with Spurrier.

I'm not a compulsive FO basher. I think Vinny and his staff are capable. I dislike the way in which DS appears to insert himself into personnel decisions.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Can people PLEASE stop the Cowher talk??? He's not going to coach here. This man worked for the Rooney's who have one of the best operations going in the NFL. Why would he come and work for Snyder? As for the other guys the only one I could see coming here is Gruden. For the sake of continuity I hope Zorn doesn't get fired, regardless of how the season turns out.

Money.

[redskingrove]

Let's face the facts. Zorn as long as he improves should stay and this would obviously provide a more comfortable atmosphere for the players to develop in the offensive schemes. Too much change can build resistance and be devastating to any plan. Blache just carried on the prior years defensive scheme and it has kept us in the top 5 defenses for a couple of years now.
In the draft, we went defense to bolster our sack record. Our defense was ranked 4th overall which wasn't so aweful that we needed to address defense so much again this year, but the offensive line which provides a QB time to throw the big plays, or a RB to break the big plays was not really addressed except for a few small additions in free agency. This has put Zorn as a victim of DS and Vinny's ego of wanting notariety with defensive production. You may say that defenses win championships but that is not the entire truth. Without a strong offense to put points up on the board when the defense stalls an opposing offense, you'll still go nowhere and your D will eventually get tired thus giving up points.
The FO (DS and Vinny) have rolled the defensive dice to try and produce the winning edge. They saw other teams that went far into the playoffs and beyond and bought into the grand picture instead of seeing the whole needs in a championship team.

Keep Zorn and develop your players. Also give the offense (LINEMEN) talent to be more productive. The FO did it with the defense so why not the offense if winning is their top priority!

[Son Of Man]

10-6 or going to the playoffs. Also, the offense would have to be in the top half of the NFL. All of these things, barring massive injuries to our team.

I'll go on the record and say that I think Snyder has improved in terms of his willingness to let coaches build/implement their system/brand here with the Skins. We can all thank Joe Gibbs for that. I think that the FO will give Zorn a minimum of 3 years to make this thing work. I believe that Danny is honestly fond of him. We'll see!

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I think that DS was rash in firing both Norv and Marty because he wanted a coach that he found more appealing (Marty and then Spurrier).

Norv took the team to the playoffs the year before he was fired when the Skins hosted a wildcard game and lost by only 1 point in the 2nd round. The year he was fired, the Skins lost a lot of close ones.

After making many changes, Marty took the team to an 8-8 record with Tony Banks at QB. The team was clearly on the upswing, but DS was in love with Spurrier.

I'm not a compulsive FO basher. I think Vinny and his staff are capable. I dislike the way in which DS appears to insert himself into personnel decisions.

Fair enough, I think Norv's firing at the time was imminent regardless of Marty. A funny thing about Marty is he had said on air he would never work for Snyder, maybe Danny felt a need for the challenge. As for Marty's firing, I agree that was a low moment, and DS should not have been rash like that. But still both those were early on, and I tend to think he has matured as an owner. Again, the only way we will know is time.

[Daseal]

For Jim Zorn to keep his job he MUST show improvement. I'm not saying he needs to win the super bowl, but he needs this team to improve, especially on the offensive end. If we don't average in the 20's point wise -- I think he's gone.

The big names out there will definitely be calling. Unfortunately, I think Snyder would go after Cowher. I simply don't think he's that good of a coach. He had some great teams in Pittsburgh -- he also had some woeful teams. He would be a terrible fit in DC. If we do fire Zorn I would hope for Holmgren (probably wouldn't come after we fire his boy) and Shenehan (I butchered his name, but love him as a coach.)