Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

a 6.6 aftershock/quake hit central Japan, Tokyo bldgs swayed.

From breakingnews.com
Japan's last hour: 6.6, 6.2, 4.5, 4.3, 3.7, 4.1, 3.9, 5.7, 3.4, 5.8 and 3.7 - BNO

Hopefully the decreasing pattern continues. Must be nerve racking.

[QUOTE=mredskins;788553]I thought it was pretty harmless but if it offended my apologies.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk.[/QUOTE]

just felt it was in bad taste.

-hatas gonna hate

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=Mattyk;788593]UPDATE 2:30PM - TOKYO (AP) -- Authorities say the pressure is rising at a nuclear power plant in northeastern Japan after its cooling system failed.

[URL="http://www.wzzm13.com/news/article/157442/2/Hundreds-killed-in-Japan-quake-pressure-rising-at-nuclear-plant"]Massive 8.9 earthquake hits Japan; Tsunami Warning issued for Pacific | wzzm13.com[/URL][/quote]

I would have to think the biggest issue there is keeping the nuclear fuel from exploding due to heat/pressure increases. The update at about 12 noon said that the temperature of the fuel was 50% higher than normal.

The US Air Force was also taking additional coolant supplies to them, to try and combat the fire/ reactor.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

MY Father just told me that the waves tore up a port in Oregon. I cannot find anything confirming this but he saw it on the news.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

Amazing:

Calif. tsunami update: San Luis Obispo County evacuates nearly 2,000 residences; expecting 2nd & 3rd waves

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

Hell it has caused damage along West Coast.
[URL="http://www.herald-dispatch.com/multimedia/galleries/x1752232443/Gallery-Tsunami-arrives-on-West-Coast"]Gallery: Tsunami arrives on West Coast - The Herald Dispatch[/URL]

[IMG]http://www.herald-dispatch.com/archive/x27439413/g27625800000000000004af01856effeaf1f74bbda610980da933a9ff35.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.herald-dispatch.com/archive/x678498593/g276258000000000000a397b30ea8a902013db1de163543572d5649b246.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;788599]I would have to think the biggest issue there is keeping the nuclear fuel from exploding due to heat/pressure increases. The update at about 12 noon said that the temperature of the fuel was 50% higher than normal.

The US Air Force was also taking additional coolant supplies to them, to try and combat the fire/ reactor.[/quote]

nuclear fuel doesn't explode, the heat gets so hot everything melts down, including the containment shells, thus radiating everything around it. The containment structure on this reactor has an emergency cooling system that kicks in in a worst case scenario. That hasn't kicked in yet because they are using other available means to keep it in control.

While scary, it's unlikely that this will get out of control.

meanwhile, it's one heck of a power outage- from Tokyo Electric Power Co(4hrs ago):

[quote][Nuclear Power Station]
Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station:
Units 1 to 3: shutdown due to earthquake
Units 4 to 6: outage due to regular inspection

*Evacuation has been instructed by the national government to the local
residents within 3 km radius of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station

Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station:
Units 1 to 4: shutdown due to earthquake

Kashiwazaki Kariwa Nuclear Power Station:
Units 1, 5, 6, 7: normal operation
Units 2 to 4: outage due to regular inspection

[B]* Survey data on radiation by exhaust stack monitors and montoring cars have
indicated no departure from normal level for all nuclear power stations.
[/B]
[Thermal Power Station]
Hirono Thermal Power Station Units 2 and 4: shutdown due to earthquake
Hitachinaka Thermal Power Station Unit 1: shutdown due to earthquake
Kashima Thermal Power Station Units 2, 3, 5, 6: shutdown due to earthquake
Chiba Thermal Power Station Unit 2 Axis 1: shutdown due to earthquake
Ohi Thermal Power Station Units 2, 3: shutdown due to earthquake
Goi Thermal Power Station Unit 4: had been shutdown due to earthquake but
has restarted
Higashi-Ohgishima Thermal Power Station Unit 1: shutdown due to earthquake

[Hydro Power Station]
14 stations in Fukushima Prefecture, 4 stations in Tochigi Prefecture,
4 stations in Yamanashi Prefecture were shutdown due to earthquake.

[Transmission System, etc.]
Eight substations shown below have been shutdown:
- Naka Substation
- Shin Motegi Substation
- Joban Substation
- Ibaraki Substation
- Ishioka Substation
- Nishi Mito Substation
- Kawachi Substation
- Haga Substation
- Mito Hokubu Substation

[Blackout in TEPCO's Service Area]
[B]Total of about 2.07 million households are out of power.
[/B]Tokyo: 3,106
Kanagawa Pref.: 101,928
Tochigi Pref.: 500,842
Chiba Pref.: 307,887
Saitama Pref: 98,425
Gunma Pref.: 155,101
Ibaraki Pref: 725,717
Yamanashi Pref: 106,044
Shizuoka Pref: 113,051 (east of Fuji River)
[/quote]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=firstdown;788607]MY Father just told me that the waves tore up a port in Oregon. I cannot find anything confirming this but he saw it on the news.[/quote]

Here is a link to a story:
[url=http://www.statesmanjournal.com/article/20110311/UPDATE/110311041/Extensive-damage-reported-Brookings-harbor]Extensive damage reported at Brookings harbor | Statesman Journal | statesmanjournal.com[/url]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;788599]I would have to think the biggest issue there is keeping the nuclear fuel from exploding due to heat/pressure increases. The update at about 12 noon said that the temperature of the fuel was 50% higher than normal.

The US Air Force was also taking additional coolant supplies to them, to try and combat the fire/ reactor.[/quote]

SolidSnake, I hope I don't regret my earlier critiques of your comments, but this doesn't sound good:

[url=http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3]Fukushima Nuclear Plant[/url]


[quote]Update: 4:29 PM ET: Anti-nuclear expert Kevin Kamp explains the nightmare scenario in Fukushma, via Forbes and the Institute for Public Accuracy:

“The electrical grid is down. The emergency diesel generators have been damaged. The multi-reactor Fukushima atomic power plant is now relying on battery power, which will only last around eight hours. The danger is, the very thermally hot reactor cores at the plant must be continuously cooled for 24 to 48 hours. Without any electricity, the pumps won’t be able to pump water through the hot reactor cores to cool them. Once electricity is lost, the irradiated nuclear fuel could begin to melt down. If the containment systems fail, a catastrophic radioactivity release to the environment could occur.

“In addition to the reactor cores, the storage pool for highly radioactive irradiated nuclear fuel is also at risk. The pool cooling water must be continuously circulated. Without circulation, the still thermally hot irradiated nuclear fuel in the storage pools will begin to boil off the cooling water. Within a day or two, the pool’s water could completely boil away. Without cooling water, the irradiated nuclear fuel could spontaneously combust in an exothermic reaction. Since the storage pools are not located within containment, a catastrophic radioactivity release to the environment could occur. Up to 100 percent of the volatile radioactive Cesium-137 content of the pools could go up in flames and smoke, to blow downwind over large distances. Given the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactivity release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear reactor catastrophe of 25 years ago.”

Meanwhile, Kyodo is reporting that local radiation levels are 8 times more than normal.

Update 4:43 PM: Now according to Kyodo, radiation is measured at 1000x normal.

Read more: [url=http://www.businessinsider.com/fukushima-nuclear-plant-2011-3#ixzz1GKX3uEJe]Fukushima Nuclear Plant[/url]
[/quote]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule's Link]Update 7:51: At least 20,000 people are being evacuated from the region says Reuters, which ominously quotes an expert who thinks there may be just a few hours until meltdown.
[/quote]

Not good. I didn't think it would get to this, either. The whole country must be scrambling to fix this situation. We just have to hope that they can figure something out in time.

I also worry about the overreaction here about nuclear power (fear) that will inevitably ensue if something tragic goes down in Japan.

One of the outer bldgs has collapsed at the #1 site and just a few minutes ago there was a 6+ rated aftershock in Fukushima provice. They have ordered evacuation for a 12mile radius.

Images and videos still are unfathomable.

"@BreakingNews: Quake with preliminary magnitude of 6 hits Fukushima in northern Japan - Reuters via NHK"

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

very sad , hope they get all the help they need , the red cross will be working OT for a while ( thank god for the red cross ) .

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=Mattyk;788508]A powerful earthquake hit Japan today, unleashing a tsunami that swept debris miles inland. The U.S. and 19 other countries are under a tsunami warning.

[URL="http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1"]At least 50 killed; tsunamis feared as massive quake hits Japan - CNN.com[/URL][/quote]


IT is sad/weird how it was report only 50 folks now it is looking more like 10000 and counting.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[url=http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/03/earthquake-in-japan/100022/#]Earthquake in Japan - Alan Taylor - In Focus - The Atlantic[/url]

These photos are powerful to say the least.


[IMG]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/jpq03111/s_j06_RTR2JR0Y.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

Reactor 1 has had an explosion, and the Japan govt is saying for the first time that a meltdown is most likely occuring. Also, there is a second reactor that an explosion is apparantly imminent. The 1st reactor is confirmed to be leaking cesium-137, a very volatile element with a long half-life, among other things.

Very bad here. Maybe not a chernobyl but the damage, and the consequences very well may rival it.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

This is absolutely stunning. I watched it 3 times. Mother Nature doesn't give a shit.

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646]BBC News - Japan earthquake: Footage of moment tsunami hit[/url]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=GMScud;788797]This is absolutely stunning. I watched it 3 times. Mother Nature doesn't give a shit.

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646]BBC News - Japan earthquake: Footage of moment tsunami hit[/url][/quote]


Holy shit, a few people are still driving down the streets when this rolled in. Are they crazy? Much like this idiot trying to outrun this in the video below.

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12722026]BBC News - Tsunami sweeps through Kesennuma City in Japan[/url]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=GMScud;788797]This is absolutely stunning. I watched it 3 times. Mother Nature doesn't give a shit.

[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646"]BBC News - Japan earthquake: Footage of moment tsunami hit[/URL][/quote]

It doesn't even seem real, so insane

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

Makes this poster almost look real.

[IMG]http://s-fun.com/wp-content/files/2009/11/2012-movie-posters-003--1024x819.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

THIS is......Horrific

[URL="http://start.toshiba.com/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9LUVL8O1%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1018"]Tide of 1,000 bodies overwhelms quake-hit Japan - Toshiba[/URL]

And now they are in they're fourth day without power and water. HELL it could be months before they have power? IF they don't have a meltdown in any of the reactors. HOw long does it take to clean up a disaster like this and get a Nuke back online???
HOLY......Hell.
[url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm]ABC News - Japan Earthquake: before and after[/url]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[url=http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2011/0314/Second-explosion-at-nuclear-power-plant-in-Japan]Second explosion at nuclear power plant in Japan - CSMonitor.com[/url]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=Hog1;788813]THIS is......Horrific

[URL="http://start.toshiba.com/news/read.php?rip_id=%3CD9LUVL8O1%40news.ap.org%3E&ps=1018"]Tide of 1,000 bodies overwhelms quake-hit Japan - Toshiba[/URL]

And now they are in they're fourth day without power and water. HELL it could be months before they have power? IF they don't have a meltdown in any of the reactors. HOw long does it take to clean up a disaster like this and get a Nuke back online???
HOLY......Hell.
[url=http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm]ABC News - Japan Earthquake: before and after[/url][/quote]

My dad is a retired AF officer, and has a degree in Nuc Engineering. We were talking about this yesterday, and it was a very interesting discussion, but bottomline, the reactors that have had the partial meltdowns are done. Just put a barrier around them and let them sit for a loooooong time. The good news though is that in all the cases so far, the actual containment vessels have reportedly held. The outer shells that blew up were outer structures, not primarily responsible for limiting radioactivity, although they did serve that function for any extraneous radiation.

Another note, as to the difference to Chernobyl, just as an interesting aside, is that Chernobyl used a graphite moderator, which collects radiation and slows the nuclear reaction. When it was on fire, the graphite moderators actually caught on fire, and spewed the radiation up high in to the atmosphere, thus causing the extensive following damage. These reactors, and all united states reactors use a water based moderator, so if it there is a meltdown, the radioactive particles are hooked to steam, which while it needs to be released to avoid pressure buildup, will dissipate quickly, and will not harm the primary containment vessel.

Even with all that, let's hope that these reactors are neutralized quickly, and the surrounding population cared for.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;788823]My dad is a retired AF officer, and has a degree in Nuc Engineering. We were talking about this yesterday, and it was a very interesting discussion, but bottomline, the reactors that have had the partial meltdowns are done. Just put a barrier around them and let them sit for a loooooong time. The good news though is that in all the cases so far, the actual containment vessels have reportedly held. The outer shells that blew up were outer structures, not primarily responsible for limiting radioactivity, although they did serve that function for any extraneous radiation.

Another note, as to the difference to Chernobyl, just as an interesting aside, is that Chernobyl used a graphite moderator, which collects radiation and slows the nuclear reaction. When it was on fire, the graphite moderators actually caught on fire, and spewed the radiation up high in to the atmosphere, thus causing the extensive following damage. These reactors, and all united states reactors use a water based moderator, so if it there is a meltdown, the radioactive particles are hooked to steam, which while it needs to be released to avoid pressure buildup, will dissipate quickly, and will not harm the primary containment vessel.

Even with all that, let's hope that these reactors are neutralized quickly, and the surrounding population cared for.[/quote]


What I don't understand is the cooling down issue and why it takes so long. Did your dad talk about that?

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

It takes so long because even when they shut them down they keep generating heat. Kind of like when you turn off your oven and it takes a while to fully cool down.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

I mean, sure she apologized after the fact, but talk about ignorance:

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/news/story?id=6215398]New York Liberty's Cappie Pondexter apologizes for Japan tweets - ESPN New York[/url]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

BS apology. How could you not think what you were saying isn't offensive or dumb. People don't go out of their way to say stuff like that unless they are truly dumb. WNBA must have cracked down.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=GMScud;788843]I mean, sure she apologized after the fact, but talk about ignorance:

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/news/story?id=6215398"]New York Liberty's Cappie Pondexter apologizes for Japan tweets - ESPN New York[/URL][/quote]

I feel much the same way about my earlier joke but at first it didn't seem like it was the huge of a disaster.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=hooskins;788846]BS apology. How could you not think what you were saying isn't offensive or dumb. People don't go out of their way to say stuff like that unless they are truly dumb. WNBA must have cracked down.[/quote]


Really the only laughing matter in all of that is the WNBA, seriously how is that league still operating?

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=Mattyk;788838]It takes so long because even when they shut them down they keep generating heat. Kind of like when you turn off your oven and it takes a while to fully cool down.[/quote]

I realize they retain heat but they must also keep producing heat for some period because of how much time has passed and they are still that hot. The only other thing I could think of is that they have to lower the temp slowly to prevent cracking issues.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=firstdown;788849]I realize they retain heat but they must also keep producing heat for some period because of how much time has passed and they are still that hot. The only other thing I could think of is that they have to lower the temp slowly to prevent cracking issues.[/quote]


Something tells me it is not that easy and you may need a good understanding of nuclear physics to truly appreciate how it "cools" itself.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=firstdown;788849]I realize they retain heat but they must also keep producing heat for some period because of how much time has passed and they are still that hot. The only other thing I could think of is that they have to lower the temp slowly to prevent cracking issues.[/quote]

Nuclear Fission by definition is superheated. It is not fusion like a sun but you are cracking neutrons together to in order to break the bonds of atoms. This material is not just a car engine, or solar panel. from wiki:

A kilogram of uranium-235 (U-235) converted via nuclear processes contains approximately three million times the energy of a kilogram of coal burned conventionally (7.2 × 1013 joules per kilogram of uranium-235 versus 2.4 × 107 joules per kilogram of coal).[3][4]

That's really hot.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=GMScud;788843]I mean, sure she apologized after the fact, but talk about ignorance:

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/news/story?id=6215398]New York Liberty's Cappie Pondexter apologizes for Japan tweets - ESPN New York[/url][/quote]


They should have written in their contracts that they aren't allowed to Twitter. I would say it's amazing that so many people are stupid as ****, but our country does rank 14th in the world in education scores. Not to mention idiots like her probably majored in some two bit degree so she could bounce a ball.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;788852]Nuclear Fission by definition is superheated. It is not fusion like a sun but you are cracking neutrons together to in order to break the bonds of atoms. This material is not just a car engine, or solar panel. from wiki:

A kilogram of uranium-235 (U-235) converted via nuclear processes contains approximately three million times the energy of a kilogram of coal burned conventionally (7.2 × 1013 joules per kilogram of uranium-235 versus 2.4 × 107 joules per kilogram of coal).[3][4]

That's really hot.[/quote]

It makes sense now. It keeps generating heat and thats why they have to keep up the cooling system. I was think after they shut down the reactor the heat would drop like a car or oven and that is not the case.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

What makes no sense is that they have all this planning for an earth quake and a Tsunami but this plant was on the ocean. It was not the quake that has caused the problems it was the Tsunami that ultimatly killed the cooling system.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

So this weekend I'm watching CNN and the home reporter asked the one in Japan about looting. The reporter on the ground said that there was no looting and they didn't expect to see any looting. The home reporter seemed perplexed about no looting and seem sure that there had to be looting going on. The ground reporter said they have done reporting in Japan for 20 some years and said they would be very, very surprised if there was any looting. The home reporter still seem baffled at how they could have this much destruction without any looting. I laughed thinking how they always make excuses for people looting everything they can get their hands on here. I guess reporters don't understand integrity or honor.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=firstdown;788877]So this weekend I'm watching CNN and the home reporter asked the one in Japan about looting. The reporter on the ground said that there was no looting and they didn't expect to see any looting. The home reporter seemed perplexed about no looting and seem sure that there had to be looting going on. The ground reporter said they have done reporting in Japan for 20 some years and said they would be very, very surprised if there was any looting. The home reporter still seem baffled at how they could have this much destruction without any looting. I laughed thinking how they always make excuses for people looting everything they can get their hands on here. I guess reporters don't understand integrity or honor.[/quote]

Funny I was thinking of the looting as well, how in New Orleans they went crazy looting but in Japan it doesn't seem that way.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

To Merry White, an anthropology professor at Boston University who studies Japanese culture , the real question is why looting and disorder exist in American society. She attributes it largely to social alienation and class gaps.

"There IS some alienation and indeed some class gaps in Japan too but violence, and taking what belongs to others, are simply not culturally approved or supported," White said in an e-mail.

[URL="http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12/orderly-disaster-reaction-in-line-with-deep-cultural-roots/"]Orderly disaster reaction in line with deep cultural roots – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs[/URL]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[URL="http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2011/03/14/dnt.japan.reactor.explainer.nhk?hpt=C2"]Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com[/URL]

shows how reactor over heats.

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/14/japan-earthquake-2011-goo_n_835548.html#253388]Japan Earthquake 2011: Before/After Satellite Images Show Extent Of Devastation (PHOTOS)[/url]

Re: Massive quake hits Japan; Tsunami in Pacific, nations on alert
 

[quote=GMScud;788843]I mean, sure she apologized after the fact, but talk about ignorance:

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/news/story?id=6215398]New York Liberty's Cappie Pondexter apologizes for Japan tweets - ESPN New York[/url][/quote]

Absolutely disgusting. I cant believe people think like this after semi recent disasters here like 9/11 and Katrina.