Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Have over 72% of the people here forgotten about a man by the name of Daniel Snyder? Dan Snyder hired Mike Shanahan to run the football side of the business. Mike was hired based on his extensive experience and good track record. Snyder did not hire Kyle Shanahan to do anything. He allowed Mike Shanahan to hire his son.

Drafting a first round QB is a big decision for an NFL franchise. I don't think that it would be acceptable to Dan Snyder for Mike Shanahan to allow anyone else to make that decision for him. And I don't think that MS is the kind of man who would do that, anyway.

Mike had better be 100% behind any QB the Redskins draft if he wants to keep his job. Try to imagine this happening: "Dan, I know Whatshisname sucks but he wasn't my choice. Kyle kept whining about wanting to pick our next QB and he's such a good son I let him do it. I would've picked Whozit". Yeah, that'll work.

By the way, how could anyone get the idea that Kyle will be Mike's successor? Mike won't determine that. Dan Snyder will determine that.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

I agree as well Schneed. And if we draft Kaepernick we will need to design both of those kinds of plays. Lol.

Well folks, I've just gotten back from a week in the Caribbean while on my honeymoon with no internet, which KILLED me. What have I missed? I want the sportscenter highlights, warpath style.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

This is a cool thread because it forces everyone to think about the dynamics in the organizational structure.

First to KI Skins Fan, any good leader that decides to delegate a decision like in this hypothetical example, that leader then stands behind the decision to his superiors. If Mike delegated the decision to Kyle, the decision then becomes Mike's by extension, and he has to support it or be held accountable. He can't distance himself from it. And he wouldn't. Mike is a good leader, he understands that.

I also don't think Mike would truly delegate a decision that way though. He would listen to Kyle and all of his other coaches state their cases, but ultimately he'll make the decision. Kyle is going to offer some great perspective and insight, especially from an Xs and Os point of view. But Mike has so much more experience, including the experience of coaching Steve Young and John Elway. Kyle has never gotten to coach players of that caliber. So when Mike sits down with Locker, Dalton, and any other QB for an interview or a study session, he'll use his experience to help pick up on the personal characteristics that made Elway and Young such good leaders.

So many dynamics involved here. Technical knowledge of Xs and Os vs experience. Boots on the ground style involvement with players vs overall strategic direction of the franchise. Finding a player that fits the system vs finding a player to which you can tailor a better system. Skill vs leadership and moxie.

Football is so great.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

I would choose Mike's QB. He is the Head Coach we hired...he is the one with all the experience. I think we all like the potential in Kyle and like to think about what he could be down the line for us, but we don't know for sure if he is even a good OC let alone head coaching material. And he has absolutely no experience in scouting and drafting QB's. This is Mike Shannahan's team...he should choose the QB he thinks is best for the Redskins and Kyle should do everything he can to support Mike and whoever that QB ends up being.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=Schneed10;795158]This is a cool thread because it forces everyone to think about the dynamics in the organizational structure.

First to KI Skins Fan, any good leader that decides to delegate a decision like in this hypothetical example, that leader then stands behind the decision to his superiors. If Mike delegated the decision to Kyle, the decision then becomes Mike's by extension, and he has to support it or be held accountable. He can't distance himself from it. And he wouldn't. Mike is a good leader, he understands that.

[B]I also don't think Mike would truly delegate a decision that way though. He would listen to Kyle and all of his other coaches state their cases, but ultimately he'll make the decision. [/B] Kyle is going to offer some great perspective and insight, especially from an Xs and Os point of view. But Mike has so much more experience, including the experience of coaching Steve Young and John Elway. Kyle has never gotten to coach players of that caliber. So when Mike sits down with Locker, Dalton, and any other QB for an interview or a study session, he'll use his experience to help pick up on the personal characteristics that made Elway and Young such good leaders.

So many dynamics involved here. Technical knowledge of Xs and Os vs experience. Boots on the ground style involvement with players vs overall strategic direction of the franchise. Finding a player that fits the system vs finding a player to which you can tailor a better system. Skill vs leadership and moxie.

Football is so great.[/quote]

Of course, he'll make the decision the way you say he will do it. I agree with you completely on that. I was being a bit sarcastic.

This thread doesn't make any sense to me to begin with and then to see that about 75% of those who voted think that Kyle should make the decision I find to be amazingly naive.

This whole question only comes up because of the father/son relationship involved. Otherwise, nobody would ever think that Mike should defer to his OC in making this decision. But Mike won't defer to Kyle either because this is business; it's not about whether to go miniature golfing or to the movies (oops, more sarcasm).

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Well, how about looking at it like this. Offensive coordinators clearly have input on what QBs are on the roster. Rex Grossman (and probably John Beck) aren't here without Kyle Shanahan. Todd Collins doesn't come here if not for Al Saunders.

But backups are not the same as starters, but why shouldn't Kyle's guy be starting from the get go?

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Regardless of the Father/Son relationship, I don't see anything wrong with deferring to an OC when that coach has autonomy of the offense. Kyle is the one that has to work one on one with that QB so he should have a significant say.

I'm working off the assumption that this decision would be made with the two of them working closely together on it and any indecision on either's part would be minor. If there is a major difference in opinion, well that's a big problem regardless and not a good way to go about selecting a potential franchise QB.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795173]Well, how about looking at it like this. Offensive coordinators clearly have input on what QBs are on the roster. Rex Grossman (and probably John Beck) aren't here without Kyle Shanahan. Todd Collins doesn't come here if not for Al Saunders.

But backups are not the same as starters, [SIZE=4]but why shouldn't Kyle's guy be starting from the get go[/SIZE]?[/quote]

If his guy should not be starting, how much confidence do you really have in KS as a coordinator?

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;795173]Well, how about looking at it like this. Offensive coordinators clearly have input on what QBs are on the roster. Rex Grossman (and probably John Beck) aren't here without Kyle Shanahan. Todd Collins doesn't come here if not for Al Saunders.

[B]But backups are not the same as starters, but why shouldn't Kyle's guy be starting from the get go?[/[/B]QUOTE]

Because Dan Snyder isn't paying Mike Shanahan the big bucks to let his relatively inexperienced OC (and son) make such an important decision for the franchise. You said it yourself: Mike Shanahan is ultimately reponsible.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;795167]Of course, he'll make the decision the way you say he will do it. I agree with you completely on that. I was being a bit sarcastic.

This thread doesn't make any sense to me to begin with and then to see that about 75% of those who voted think that Kyle should make the decision I find to be amazingly naive.

[B]This whole question only comes up because of the father/son relationship involved. Otherwise, nobody would ever think that Mike should defer to his OC in making this decision. [/B]But Mike won't defer to Kyle either because this is business; it's not about whether to go miniature golfing or to the movies (oops, more sarcasm).[/quote]

Actually I think that with this decision the HC should be very open to the ideas of the OC, father/son or not. If the OC is not comfortable with the QB, the offense will not function optimally.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Dalton baby!! The next Sammy Baugh (well at least they attended the same college).

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

I feel like we're drafting a quarterback just because we feel like we have to; not want to.
Personally I wouldn't draft any of these QB's they all scare me.

Christian Ponder: Good QB, but can't throw the deep ball, is injury prone, and forces things into coverage

Cam Newton: Has upside, but is a one year wonder, doesn't know how to read defenses, is another Vince Young or Jason Campbell IMO (he tends to tuck it and run too much)

Blaine Gabbert: has the measurables you want in a QB, but comes from a spread offense which he put up ok numbers in this year, the same offense and competition Sam Bradford went against accept Sam put up 50 TD passes and Blaine put up 16.

Andy Dalton: Is a four year starter, but his arm isn't that strong, he wasn't accurate when he played in the senior bowl under center, comes from a spread offense and is a ginger.

Jake Locker: Is Not accurate at all. Really tends to over throw his receivers, can't read defenses that well either, did bad against good competition defenses.

Ryan Mallett: Has the arm of Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, but the attitude of a Ryan Leaf/Ben Roethlisberger. Also has the legs of a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning. If he was more mobile, and had less character concerns he'd be easily a top-10 pick (minus the cocaine)

Ricky Stanzi: Isn't mobile, forces a throw or two every now and then, is injury prone at times.

Colin Kaepernick: Doesn't have good accuracy, faced bad competition, and played in an offense which makes QB's look good CMP%-wise. Can't read defenses.

Greg McElroy: Doesn't have a strong arm and isn't mobile; also takes way too many sacks. But is probably the smartest QB in the draft, could be the next Matt Flynn.


Draft a QB next year skins and see how we do this year with Rex.

Next year we could get:
Kellen Moore (smart, highly accurate QB)
Andrew Luck (enough said, possibly the next Peyton Manning)
Matt Barkley (has a lot of potential)
Nick Foles (could be great playing out his senior year)
Landry Jones (...ok he's not that great, but is better than some of these QB's that could go anywhere from late first to third round)
EJ Manual (Big, a lot like Daunte Culpepper)
Case Keenum ( scouts are high on him cause of Kevin Kolb and him in the same school)
John Brantley, has the NFL arm and smarts

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

This coming from "CultBrennan" -- what's Colt doing these days?

All kidding aside, this analysis seems to succintly pull together much of what I have been reading about these guys for the last number of weeks. I would prefer to we use our picks to develop our lines more. We have a lot of work to do there.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Kyle's choice. The O will be more productive running his offensive scheme with a bit more emphasis on the power run game. The 90s Broncos O with the heavy ZB/PA scheme is not as effective as it was back then.

MS needs to be a HC, not an OC/HC.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

It's a easy answer. You go with the QB that fits the system better. If this where Mike's system he ran in Denver, you might lean more towards Locker. However, this is Kyle's system which seems to need a accurate pocket passer with some mobility for bootlegs.

Dalton all the way. I also like Ponder as well and feel he's in the same type of mold as Dalton.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;795286]I feel like we're drafting a quarterback just because we feel like we have to; not want to.
Personally I wouldn't draft any of these QB's they all scare me.

Christian Ponder: Good QB, but can't throw the deep ball, is injury prone, and forces things into coverage

Cam Newton: Has upside, but is a one year wonder, doesn't know how to read defenses, is another Vince Young or Jason Campbell IMO (he tends to tuck it and run too much)

Blaine Gabbert: has the measurables you want in a QB, but comes from a spread offense which he put up ok numbers in this year, the same offense and competition Sam Bradford went against accept Sam put up 50 TD passes and Blaine put up 16.

Andy Dalton: Is a four year starter, but his arm isn't that strong, he wasn't accurate when he played in the senior bowl under center, comes from a spread offense and is a ginger.

Jake Locker: Is Not accurate at all. Really tends to over throw his receivers, can't read defenses that well either, did bad against good competition defenses.

Ryan Mallett: Has the arm of Peyton Manning or Dan Marino, but the attitude of a Ryan Leaf/Ben Roethlisberger. Also has the legs of a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning. If he was more mobile, and had less character concerns he'd be easily a top-10 pick (minus the cocaine)

Ricky Stanzi: Isn't mobile, forces a throw or two every now and then, is injury prone at times.

Colin Kaepernick: Doesn't have good accuracy, faced bad competition, and played in an offense which makes QB's look good CMP%-wise. Can't read defenses.

Greg McElroy: Doesn't have a strong arm and isn't mobile; also takes way too many sacks. But is probably the smartest QB in the draft, could be the next Matt Flynn.


Draft a QB next year skins and see how we do this year with Rex.

Next year we could get:
Kellen Moore (smart, highly accurate QB)
Andrew Luck (enough said, possibly the next Peyton Manning)
Matt Barkley (has a lot of potential)
Nick Foles (could be great playing out his senior year)
Landry Jones (...ok he's not that great, but is better than some of these QB's that could go anywhere from late first to third round)
EJ Manual (Big, a lot like Daunte Culpepper)
Case Keenum ( scouts are high on him cause of Kevin Kolb and him in the same school)
John Brantley, has the NFL arm and smarts[/quote]


Don't forget the possibility of Danny O'brien if he comes out next year, which I highly doubt, but you never know. He really looks to be the real deal, but we'll have a much better idea after this season depending on how he adjusts to Randy Edsall. He'd do well though to play at least until his rs-junior year.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

I'd still love to know what Dalton's hair color has to do with all this??

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=Mattyk;795312]I'd still love to know what Dalton's hair color has to do with all this??[/quote]

Isn't that ridiculous?

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Watching Jon Gruden's QB Camp right now- Ryan Mallett. He's got John Daly (golfer) in his corner in the film room with him and Gruden. Really? I mean, I know Daly quit drinking and is an Arkansas guy, but what's that all about? I get the intention- he's someone who can tell Mallett all about what booze/drugs can do to a mountain of natural ability, but I sure wouldn't bring the guy on TV with me.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

I'm pretty sure Gruden was the one who invited John Daly.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Gruden and Daly are good friends.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=Mattyk;795344]Gruden and Daly are good friends.[/quote]

[quote=GreekSkin;795339]I'm pretty sure Gruden was the one who invited John Daly.[/quote]

Well, in that case, nevermind.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

I think each situation is different.

I wouldn't expect Bill Walsh to defer to Mike Shanahan or Sean Peyton to defer to his OC, or Mike McCarthy to his, or Chan Gailey to his, Mike Holmgren/Pat Shurmur to his, Norv Turner to his, etc.

You gotta earn your stripes to make that call.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Also I think I should note that my choice for a possible rookie QB is going to be 20/20 hindsight. In other words whoever they take on draft day I'll feel that they were the best choice. Weather it be Newton, Mallet, Locker, Dalton, Ponder, Kaepernick, Mallet, or Stanzi.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

That's one of the thing that's frustrating about all of the "experts" who keep fitting QB to Mike's offense when it is Kyle's. Kyle is likely looking for a QB that more resembles Matt Schaub than John Elway. Remember, Kyle didn't want McNabb because he didn't fit 'his' system but fit Mike's. Dalton, Ponder and Mallett are more Kyle QB than Newton, Locker and Kaepernick.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=calia;795288]This coming from "CultBrennan" -- what's Colt doing these days?[/quote]

The Hartford Colonials will look to bolster a number of positions with their reserve unsigned list, most notably at quarterback, where COLT BRENNAN brings record-setting numbers from his days at the University of Hawaii. Brennan and Colonials Head Coach/General Manager Jerry Glanville were together at Hawaii, when Glanville was the team's Defensive Coordinator.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Your question invokes some more questions though....

1. Who's Offensive scheme are we using?
2. Which QB would be best for said scheme?

Personally to me it looked like we were using Kyle Shanahan's Offensive scheme last year. So having said that then it would only make sense if the team picked a QB that was best suited for that scheme. But it doesn't just end there....

Who is the OC (KS), who is the QB coach (Matt LaFluer). I mention this because they both have to be able to communicate with the QB picked and get a long with them. Which QB does not only KS think is best but who does Matt LaFluer believe he can work with best in getting the fundamentals across and absorbing the material?

I guess I'm reading too much into the question so I'll simply say Kyle Shanahan should get the nod. Plus I'm in favour of Dalton anyway for two reasons

1- I'd rather the team dropped back for more picks and took Dalton in the second round.
2- I honestly think Dalton is a better QB.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;795555]The Hartford Colonials will look to bolster a number of positions with their reserve unsigned list, most notably at quarterback, where COLT BRENNAN brings record-setting numbers from his days at the University of Hawaii. Brennan and Colonials Head Coach/General Manager Jerry Glanville were together at Hawaii, when Glanville was the team's Defensive Coordinator.[/quote]

I resign as a Redskins fan. Colonials all the way baby! Connecticut water changed into wine!

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

Hey look, it's JLC
[IMG]http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50352_180096748687860_292329_n.jpg[/IMG]

JasonLaCanfora Jason La Canfora
Several GMs I've talked to believe Skins will move to 2 to make sure they get Gabbert. I think he'd likely be there at 10
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

JasonLaCanfora Jason La Canfora
Spoke Monday about the Redskins interest in trading up to No 2 to land a QB. @KaraHenderson, reporting from Denver today, echoed that and...
12 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;795627]Hey look, it's JLC
[IMG]http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50352_180096748687860_292329_n.jpg[/IMG]

JasonLaCanfora Jason La Canfora
Several GMs I've talked to believe Skins will move to 2 to make sure they get Gabbert. I think he'd likely be there at 10
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

JasonLaCanfora Jason La Canfora
Spoke Monday about the Redskins interest in trading up to No 2 to land a QB. @KaraHenderson, reporting from Denver today, echoed that and...
12 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply[/quote]

Gabbert won't be there at #10 I gaurentee that. JLC's and idiot.

Personally I think the Panthers will take Gabbert to ensure they have the top QB to start a new HC's regiem and have last yrs pick as a nice young back up. Buffalo will take Newton. They need a QB and Newton is the mobile QB they need. After that it's up for grabs. I still think there will be atleast one other QB possibly two picked prior to the Skins pick.

Where is Cinci at with Palmer? Arizona needs a better QB then the two they got. 49ers are not sold on who they have. Unless the 49ers HC is going to bide his time this yr and wait for his college QB to come out next year then he will need a QB who fits his system. I'm not sure the ones they have do and not sure they think they do.

Then the next question is can we wait till round 2 to get the one we are looking at? the Vikes need a QB and Miami. The unfortunate thing is all teams have to act as if the CBA is not getting fixed until after season starts which means filling holes through the draft. It's better teams "plan for the worst and hope for the best" and pick to fill holes vs. "hoping for the best and not filling a hole."

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=SBXVII;795661]Gabbert won't be there at #10 I gaurentee that. JLC's and idiot.

Personally I think the Panthers will take Gabbert to ensure they have the top QB to start a new HC's regiem and have last yrs pick as a nice young back up. Buffalo will take Newton. They need a QB and Newton is the mobile QB they need. After that it's up for grabs. I still think there will be atleast one other QB possibly two picked prior to the Skins pick

Where is Cinci at with Palmer? Arizona needs a better QB then the two they got. 49ers are not sold on who they have. Unless the 49ers HC is going to bide his time this yr and wait for his college QB to come out next year then he will need a QB who fits his system. I'm not sure the ones they have do and not sure they think they do.
[/quote]

I wouldn't say it's impossible for him to fall to 10 but I think it's fair in saying that it's highly unlikely. Carolina is now 90% likely to take Newton at 1. Cincinnati apparently wants to go Wideout in the first and take someone from the Dalton-Ponder tier with their next pick. Buffalo is being linked heavily to Ponder. Arizona loves Von Miller and is a favorite to make a play for Kolb.

Tenneessee might like Locker better then anyone and is rumored to prefer trading out of 8 no matter what so it's certainly possible but I say highly unlikely that everything goes down like that.



[quote]Then the next question is can we wait till round 2 to get the one we are looking at? the Vikes need a QB and Miami. The unfortunate thing is all teams have to act as if the CBA is not getting fixed until after season starts which means filling holes through the draft. It's better teams "plan for the worst and hope for the best" and pick to fill holes vs. "hoping for the best and not filling a hole."[/quote]

At the very least theres a lot of teams looking QB and this is a deep (albeit not top heavy) class, but you still have only have 5 prospects that are liked by the majority of the QB hungry teams and 8 teams that could easily target any of those 5 prospects.

Locker is rumored to be going between 10 and 20. Newton is going to be first. Gabbert will probably be top 5. And whoever doesn't take a QB in the first between Cinci and Buffalo is likely to look at Ponder in the second. Also there are rumors of Seattle taking someone like Dalton or Ponder at 25 and teams wanting to trade up to 24 to insure that they get their guy.

Either way it's a mess right now. I can't wait till Thrusday.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

[quote=SBXVII;795661]Gabbert won't be there at #10 I gaurentee that. JLC's and idiot.

Personally I think the Panthers will take Gabbert to ensure they have the top QB to start a new HC's regiem and have last yrs pick as a nice young back up. Buffalo will take Newton. They need a QB and Newton is the mobile QB they need. After that it's up for grabs. I still think there will be atleast one other QB possibly two picked prior to the Skins pick.

Where is Cinci at with Palmer? Arizona needs a better QB then the two they got. 49ers are not sold on who they have. Unless the 49ers HC is going to bide his time this yr and wait for his college QB to come out next year then he will need a QB who fits his system. I'm not sure the ones they have do and not sure they think they do.

Then the next question is can we wait till round 2 to get the one we are looking at? the Vikes need a QB and Miami. The unfortunate thing is all teams have to act as if the CBA is not getting fixed until after season starts which means filling holes through the draft. It's better teams "plan for the worst and hope for the best" and pick to fill holes vs. "hoping for the best and not filling a hole."[/quote]
I agree that JLC is basically an idiot, especially when it comes to the Redskins. He had about a 30% accuracy rating when he was an 'insider' at Redskins Park, now he knows squat.

Other than that, I pretty much disagree with everything else. Carolina is locked in on Cam. There's probably about a 60% chance that unless Minnesota jumps above us that Gabbert is sitting at 10. Buffalo won't take him, Cincy will go AJ Green, Cleveland goes Julio Jones, Arizona and SF will go defense and Tennessee is gaga for Locker. Gabbert should fall right into our laps.

Re: Whose QB Should We Choose?
 

I thought about this for a while. At first i thought Kyle's because hopefully hes the future of our team. Then i decided on Mike.

Mike has had pretty good success of picking QBs, but more importantly Kyle hasnt ever had major input on picking a QB besides, presumably, McNabb. I dont want a 31 year old picking a QB. Shanahan grew up as overachieving QB before he bacme a coach and i think he probably has MUCH better insight into the position then Kyle. I will admit that i dont want Dalton and i do want Locker, but id rather have the QB Mike prefers even if Locker is a smokescreen and he secretly wants Dalton or God forbid Gabbet.