Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;795845]Not to show my frustration towards you SS, your the messenger, [B]but WHY THE F#CK WOULD WE TRADE [U]UP[/U] FOR LOCKER??!?!?!?!?![/B]

he's supposed to go late in the draft, and should definitely be there for us at 10, so why would we waste picks on a third round talent in the first round. It's going to be like the Raiders taking Heyward-Bey.

I'm already pissed that we want to draft a QB, I'm more pissed that we want to trade up/draft Gabbert, I'm extremely pissed that we still want Locker in the first round, I'm Fing Livid that we want to trade up for his crappy inaccurate ass!!![/quote]

Because someone ahead of us wants him?

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795849]Because someone ahead of us wants him?[/quote]

Basically, the rules kind of go out the window with QBs. He'll land somewhere between 5 and 15 (in my opinion) because the prospect of him being awesome is too enticing. More so, I suppose, than the fear of him being a bust

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

Funny that QB is the one position where it's generally accepted that guys are going to be over-valued. Parcells touched on this last night, where a position like RB has become almost under-valued these days.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795847]Don't worry I wasn't expecting anyone to step up and admit they were against taking Bradford last year.[/quote]

Yeah that's funny because I remember when I was the driver of the Bradford bandwagon and I got reemed because "he's injury prone" or "the spread offense doesn't help him in the NFL" etc .

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

I have been saying it until I am blue in the face on here...if Gabbert is the guy they think can be their franchise QB then I am all for them doing whatever they have to do to get him.

Personally I am hoping that locker is the guy they really want...but my main concern is that when the dust settles on Saturday we have secured Shannys guy.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

The term "smokescreen" comes to mind. Plus, when is JLC ever right?

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795847]Don't worry I wasn't expecting anyone to step up and admit they were against taking Bradford last year.[/quote]

I was against getting Bradford because it would have meant trading up to get him. I also didn't think we had an offensive line to protect any QB, let alone a rookie. As talented as Bradford is I don't think he would have had the success he had in St. Louis here with us with an offensive line minus Trent Williams.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795847]Don't worry I wasn't expecting anyone to step up and admit they were against taking Bradford last year.[/quote]

I'll take my lumps here. I was against taking Bradford at #4 last year (partly because I was firm on the Colt McCoy in round 2 bandwagon). Suffice it to say...my opinion may have been a tad off.

That being said. Sam Bradford passed for 50 touchdowns in his last full season in the NCAA. Gabbert passed for 16. Both operated in pass oriented systems.

Locker at #10!!!

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Ruhskins;795864]I was against getting Bradford because it would have meant trading up to get him. I also didn't think we had an offensive line to protect any QB, let alone a rookie. As talented as Bradford is I don't think he would have had the success he had in St. Louis here with us with an offensive line minus Trent Williams.[/quote]

Wait you don't think he would of had the same success why? Do you really think the Rams are that much better then the Skins. Umm no. They are not. The olines are pretty equal. We have better Wr's and a better tight end. Running game no, S Jackson def helped but I think Sam would have done pretty good here

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795847]Don't worry I wasn't expecting anyone to step up and admit they were against taking Bradford last year.[/quote]

I was very against taking Bradford after the McNabb trade happened.

Before that wasted effort, I was against it mostly due to his injury, but would have accepted it, just like I came to accept the trade for McNabb.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795847]Don't worry I wasn't expecting anyone to step up and admit they were against taking Bradford last year.[/quote]

my only concern was the shoulder being he missed an entire year due to injury...I think you would find scouts agreed much more that Bradford was a legit top 5 pick and better overall QB vs Gabbert. I i remember correct Oline was the mantra last year. I do remember being much more against picking Sanchise the year earlier.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795823]For those that follow college ball closely, how does Gabbert compare to Bradford as a prospect?[/quote]

In these pages I spoke for drafting Bradford last year although I was not willing to give up the farm for him.

To me Bradford was far superior in college to Gabbert. Bradford has better mechanics and a quicker release. The clincher for me, though, is that Bradford's balls went all over the field - he stretched the field horizontally and vertically. Gabbert, on the other hand, buttered his bread with curls and crossing routes.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;795867]Wait you don't think he would of had the same success why? Do you really think the Rams are that much better then the Skins. Umm no. They are not. The olines are pretty equal. We have better Wr's and a better tight end. Running game no, S Jackson def helped but I think Sam would have done pretty good here[/quote]

You think our offensive line, minus Trent Williams would have been good?

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795856]Funny that QB is the one position where it's generally accepted that guys are going to be over-valued. Parcells touched on this last night, where a position like RB has become almost under-valued these days.[/quote]

That Parcell show was freakin awesome, I just pray Shanny and our guys are as thorough as that with our scouting and prep work. Ive always liked Parcells as a person on TV, analyst, etc. But hated the damn teams he has coached.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795823]For those that follow college ball closely, how does Gabbert compare to Bradford as a prospect?[/quote]
They're similar height, weight size guys.

They have similar throwing arm strength but Bradford seems to drive the ball better and throws more on a line Gabbert's have a bit more loft and aren't driven quite as hard on a line.

I think Bradford is more accurate then Gabbert.

Both have very quick, clean releases Gabbert's is more prototypical over the top delivery, Bradford's is more 3/4 but still very clean.

Gabbert is faster and ostensibly more athletic due to his combine numbers but I think Bradford is the more fluid athlete.

I think Bradford made more full field progression reads then Gabbert, but both played primarily in a half field progression catch and throw offense. (and imo there's nothing wrong with that)

Both QBs NFL trait they can hang their hats on the ability to demonstrate consistency in the catch and throw short and inter mediate passing, you can build an NFL offense around that consistency.

For the record I was agaisnt trading up for Bradford because I didn't think the team specifically the OL could support a young QB without significantly upgrading both OT spots. (I'm also against trading up in principle, if you have the QBs rated near the same why not wait for a QB you like to fall to you? e.g. did the Jets really benefit by trading up for Sanchez when they could have stood pat or moved up less to get Josh Freeman?)

Imo having Trent Williams afford us the ability to protect a young QB.

But, I still think we shouldn't trade up for either QB.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

Mostly Agents are the ones letting all this info out, so they could basically be BSn everybody

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

I love all the rumors of draft week. We've been rumored to trade up to 2, trade up to 6, trade down to 14...the rumors are all over the place. i must say i will be somewhat "disappointed" if we do the [B]smartest thing [/B]and stay at 10 and draft someone like tyron smith.

that said, i'll lose all confidence in the shanahans if we trade UP in the first round and give up our 1st rounder next year. Neither Gabbert or Locker can hold a candle to Luck, who at this point appears to be the best college QB to enter the draft in years.

In my opinion, the BEST thing the shanahan's can do for the franchise is trade WAY down in the 1st round this year, perhaps [B]out of the 1st round alltogether,[/B] and pick up a teams 2nd this year and 2012 1st rounder. With atleast one top 10 pick in 2012 (anyone who thinks otherwise given the complete lack of talent on the our team is fooling themselves), [B]we'll have the ammo to trade UP in next years draft to get Luck. [/B] if we use our earliest pick in this years draft on a starting offensive lineman, Luck could then come into a position where he's got a solid O-line in front of him.

THATs the only situation i can EVER see trading up early in the first round to get a QB. We have a piss-poor offensive line at the moment and no playmakers at all on offense. Why on earth would you trade up to get a QB and bring him into that situation, with the full knowledge that you'd have no means to put talent around him in the near future.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

I think perhaps more foolish than trading up to #2 to get Gabbert is thinking that we have some distinct advantage in getting Luck by keeping our 1st rounder next year (and even adding a 2nd first rounder next year).

Luck's only in a Redskins uniform if we have the 1st overall pick next year

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

We just need to start some crazy rumor about Gabbert doing drugs or something so he can slip to us at #10. LOL.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795924]I think perhaps more foolish than trading up to #2 to get Gabbert is thinking that we have some distinct advantage in getting Luck by keeping our 1st rounder next year (and even adding a 2nd first rounder next year).

Luck's only in a Redskins uniform if we have the 1st overall pick next year[/quote]

yep and I dont want to go 2-14

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=SmootSmack;795924]I think perhaps more foolish than trading up to #2 to get Gabbert is thinking that we have some distinct advantage in getting Luck by keeping our 1st rounder next year (and even adding a 2nd first rounder next year).

Luck's only in a Redskins uniform if we have the 1st overall pick next year[/quote]

Yes, agreed it would be foolish to trade up. I will say if we go into 2011 w/ just Beck at QB (i think we'll resign RG and release DM though) we might stand a chance at that first pick. I think we'll be better than that but it's possible. There's just alot of holes on this team. It's going to get better but there's alot of holes to fill.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795929]yep and I dont want to go 2-14[/quote]

And that may not even do it. The division we play in will always give us a strong strength of schedule which is used as a tie breaker for the draft order. We will likely need to be a full game worse then everyone else since we likely won't win a tie breaker. That's like a 0 or 1 win season...never gonna happen. And if Luck is as good as advertised again next season then the team with the #1 pick will not even seriously entertain offers.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

Agreed on Luck. No chance of getting him unless we have the #1 pick, and chances of that will be slim.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=redsk1;795933]Yes, agreed it would be foolish to trade up. I will say if we go into 2011 w/ just Beck at QB (i think we'll resign RG and release DM though) we might stand a chance at that first pick. I think we'll be better than that but it's possible. There's just alot of holes on this team. It's going to get better but there's alot of holes to fill.[/quote]

Think about how bad Zorn's 2nd season was and the best it got us was picking 4th. Having the worst record is almost as hard as having the best.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795823]For those that follow college ball closely, how does Gabbert compare to Bradford as a prospect?[/quote]Coming out, in a word: healthier.

He never achieved Bradford's raw efficiency as a college passer, but I know his body will hold up through a 16 game season, and Gabbert is a notch below Bradford in terms of college accuracy, but better than most college QBs.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

I have Gabbert rated higher this year than I had Bradford rated last year. After a healthy rookie year, I am now confident that Bradford is going to be the better pro. But I didn't know that a year ago. The other thing in play was that last year's draft was a LOT stronger at non QB positions.

Gabbert, I think, could be the 5th best player in this draft. The elite class is Miller, Peterson, Dareus, and Green. Then, if you buy into him as a professional, Fairley is number five. Gabbert is the next guy on my board.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795839]Yet so many were against drafting Bradford last year... so I'm going to take any opinions on Gabbert with a serious grain of salt.[/quote]

He actually reminds me a little bit of Matt Ryan coming out. Not particularly impressive college stats but great intangibles, good mobility, and great but not elite arm strength. He might be a little more accurate then Ryan as well as people around here have been alluding to accuracy can be different from completion percentage. Main difference is Ryan played 4 years, had a season with 30 TD passes, and came out of a pro style system.

In terms of comparison to Bradford, well they match up on intangibles, though Gabberts football IQ might be slightly higher. Gabbert has perfect mechanics and as Tripp said he's much more likely to be durable. Gabbert also move around better. Still would have preferred Bradford though.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;795952]He actually reminds me a little bit of Matt Ryan coming out. Not particularly impressive college stats but great intangibles, good mobility, and great but not elite arm strength. He might be a little more accurate then Ryan as well as people around here have been alluding to accuracy can be different from completion percentage. Main difference is Ryan played 4 years, had a season with 30 TD passes, and came out of a pro style system.

In terms of comparison to Bradford, well they match up on intangibles, though Gabberts football IQ might be slightly higher. Gabbert has perfect mechanics and as Tripp said he's much more likely to be durable. Gabbert also move around better. Still would have preferred Bradford though.[/quote]Matt Ryan is an excellent comparable. He doesn't play like Matt Ryan, at all, so if you're thinking about a quick release intermediate level passer who has a great first three years in the league, that's not Gabbert. But when you think about what Matt Ryan will be in two years, and what Gabbert will be in five years, I think you're working with roughly the same talent.

Gabbert though has to undergo almost a complete breakdown of his pocket mechanics, and won't be able to lead a team as a rookie the way Ryan did. He could be as good as Vince Young was as a rookie when he won ROY, but Matt Ryan is a good down the road projection for Gabbert, not a good expectation for him as a first year player.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

Put another way: Matt Ryan's completion percentage in three years as a pro is exactly identical to Gabbert's in two years as the starter at Missouri.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

If BG equals Ryan we need to take him at 2

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795958]If BG equals Ryan we need to take him at 2[/quote]Well, let me go the other way and play devil's advocate: If Ryan had struggled as a rookie instead of winning ROY, and then was mediocre in his second year, and instead of leading the Falcons to the playoffs this past year, instead lead a losing team out of the doldrums and to 8-8 (looking exactly as promising as he does now), would you still think he's worth a top three pick? I say no.

Remember, you have the same player Matt Ryan, who will probably go to 2 or 3 probowls in the next decade and compete with Josh Freeman and Drew Brees to win the NFC South in most years, but if you didn't have any of the early career success, would he still be as valuable? That's Gabbert.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=GTripp0012;795959]Well, let me go the other way and play devil's advocate: If Ryan had struggled as a rookie instead of winning ROY, and then was mediocre in his second year, and instead of leading the Falcons to the playoffs this past year, instead lead a losing team out of the doldrums and to 8-8 (looking exactly as promising as he does now), would you still think he's worth a top three pick? I say no.

Remember, you have the same player Matt Ryan, who will probably go to 2 or 3 probowls in the next decade and compete with Josh Freeman and Drew Brees to win the NFC South in most years, [B]but if you didn't have any of the early career success, would he still be as valuable? That's Gabbert.[/B][/quote]

Which reminds me of another comparison I heard from McShay with Aaron Rodgers.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/16/mcshay-compares-gabbert-to-rodgers-newton-to-big-ben/]McShay compares Gabbert to Rodgers, Newton to Big Ben | ProFootballTalk[/url]
[quote]“With Gabbert, he’s more of an Aaron Rodgers type,” added McShay. “The understanding of the position, he’s gonna continue to improve in that area. Gabbert has a chance to become really technically sound. He shows great football intelligence.

“Obviously, we’re going to see these quarterbacks come off the board pretty quickly.”[/quote]

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[url=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?entry_id=87863&tsp=1]NFL draft trade rumors: Washington wants to deal : Niner Insider[/url]

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Mattyk;795938]Agreed on Luck. No chance of getting him unless we have the #1 pick, and chances of that will be slim.[/quote]

Assuming that we have a draft. At present there is no guarantee of a draft in 2012. I think it's more likely that there will be one, but if the players were really insistent on dropping it, I think it could be sacrificed in conjunction w/a rookie wage scale.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;795962][URL="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?entry_id=87863&tsp=1"]NFL draft trade rumors: Washington wants to deal : Niner Insider[/URL][/quote]

I heard McShay say this earlier, it's looking more and more like BG will be our pick

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795958]If BG equals Ryan we need to take him at 2[/quote]

If we take him at 2, that will be the only player we draft in 2011. We'll have to give up the rest of our picks most likely to jump up the draft board that far.

NOT worth it.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;795967]I heard McShay say this earlier, it's looking more and more like BG will be our pick[/quote]

If trades are allowed by tomorrow, maybe they'll package McNabb and the 10th pick along with a 5th rounder. We'll see if this is a smokescreen or not.

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=Monkeydad;795970]If we take him at 2, that will be the only player we draft in 2011. We'll have to give up the rest of our picks most likely to jump up the draft board that far.

NOT worth it.[/quote]

Not exactly, SS and other insiders have said a 1st and 4th or 3rd next year

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;795971]If trades are allowed by tomorrow, maybe they'll package McNabb and the 10th pick along with a 5th rounder. We'll see if this is a smokescreen or not.[/quote]

I just don't see it a SmokeScreen, the skins know they need a QB and apparently they love BG

Re: Redskins Potentially Interested in Trading Up For Gabbert
 

edit....