Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

[QUOTE=dirtbag2112]Did any of you guys catch the NFL network playbook in wich they broke down draft picks from 2002? Anyways when they got to QB's they gave Ramsey a lot of credit. Even though Carr and Harrington were drafted higher they like Patrick. Despite being in two night and day systems, he has a better winning percentage than both of those guys. I'm just rambling guys...I'm a huge Ramsey fan.[/QUOTE]

I have always said that we have drafted the best QB since 2002! And that includes Leftwich. Looking at the numbers, PR is better than all of them, Carr, Harrington, Leftwich. . .this, coming from a casual RamseyFan.

We will be in for a classic Beltway QB controversy the start of next year. I'm saying the start of next year cause I do believe Ramsey will have a serviceable/breakout season, over 20 TD's and less than 15 picks, over 3250 yards.

And please, lets let Campbell chill for a year or two, this guy has PROVEN ZERO! Nothing! Has he put on pads?? I read that WP post article on him and got chills all over! But lets be realistic, he is still a long shot. . .at this point. Now if he throws 5 TD's and 0 picks in limited preseason play, I'll start drinking the kool-aid. ha ha ha ha ha

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Gibbs may like that, but our salary cap doesn't. I seriously doubt Ramsey would resign a contract, especially a cheap one, to stay as the #2 here in DC.[/QUOTE]

Definitely. I'm sure he'll take the best deal he can get, whether it's here or anywhere else. If I were him, the only way I'd agree to come back to the Redskins is if they offered me more money than anyone else. If I'm going to be pushed by Campbell, I'd think that's not the ideal situation, so I'm going to want to be paid a lot to deal with that.
But Campbell isn't going to command a high-dollar contract as a late 1st rounder. His cap number will probably be in the $2 - $3 million per season range, probably closer to the $2. And his contract will probably last 4-5 years. So strictly from a QB perspective, we wouldn't be busting the budget if we signed Ramsey to a big dollar contract two years from now to be our starter. We could still keep Campbell around at his rookie rate and we'd be OK. Of course, this all assumes that we have cut Mark Brunell and cleared his dead money off our books by this point.
You're right, that is a relatively big QB budget compared to most teams, but it's not like we'd have Jason Campbell and Peyton Manning's $14 million per season.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

I have been trying very hard to determine what the future holds for Patrick Ramsey here with the Redskins, if indeed he has one. I have no problem with PR but it seems as if the coaching staff of the Redskins don't seem to have quite as much faith in him as many of us seem too. It dosen't seem a coincedence that last year Brunell was brought in with a large salry to supplant Patrick. This year we trade three players (including a first) on a QB which will demand a sizeable contract to be a back-up QB. I can't see a future with three high salaried QB's though many seem to think Brunell will be gone. It just dosen't seem likely that the Redskins would go through great lengths to draft a QB in the first round with no intention of starting him at some point in time. Something has to give, we cant start PR and JC, therefore I'm quite interested in seeing how this one is going to play out.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

What's with this notion that Jason Campbell is going to cost a lot?? Only guys in the top 10 or 15 picks have exhorbitant price tags in their rookie contracts. The guys in the back half of the first round are paid relatively cheaply. In 2002 when we picked Ramsey in the 32nd slot, he got a contract worth about $1 million per season plus room for incentives. Add some inflation to that, and figure Campbell got picked a few picks earlier, and he's probably between $2 - $3 million per season for 4-5 years. No big deal.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

I feel that Campbell is Gibbs safty net. We all know that it takes a couple of years to develop a rookie QB so that gives Ramsey two years or until the end of his contract to prove himself. We had to have a back-up QB so would we rely on Brunell to fill that role. We might for the first half of the year or Campbell might show that he is worthy of the number two spot sooner. I don't think we have a QB cotroversy yet, But if Ramsey is unable to step up his game we may have one in weeks 9 or 10. Gibbs had to either find a QB in free agency(which would be costly) or he could find one in the draft. Campbell was a late first round pick so his cost will not be that great. If Ramsey takes that next step we have a player in Campbell that we could trade or keep do to his low cost.I don't feel that Gibbs does not trust Ramsey he just wanted a plan B for if he cannot perform for us. Ramsey looked real shaky in preseason but started to come around when given the chance last season. I'm fully in Ramsey's corner but I'm happy that Gibbs chose to have a back up plan for the future if need be.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]
The difference is Harrington and Carr don't get yanked out of the lineup consistantly. Ramsey needs AT LEAST a full year to play and get in his rhythm.[/QUOTE]

Ramsey hasn't gotten yanked out of the lineup consistantly. Since he started last year, he stayed in for the rest of the season and impressed coach Gibbs enough to be named the undisputed starter for the 2005 season.

I do agree though, he does need a full year to play and get in his rhythm. This also includes him staying away from injuries.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

Ramsey's never been behind a good O-line. This year he should be and it will make all the difference.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

The question is about Ramsey's future - presumably here in Washington.

First, I continue to believe that Joe Gibbs is uncomfortable with Patrick Ramsey as the QB of this team. Remember back to the time when Gibbs was hired. He had been here about two weeks and said that he and the coaching staff had looked at the films from the year before (Spurrier II) and they were amazed to see who the previous regime had in the starting positions. Then, the FIRST thing that Gibbs did was to go out and woo Mark Brunell to agree to come here in a trade. Bad sign...

Then Gibbs played Brunell forever and a week last year until it became embarrassing - and then he went to Ramsey. But even with Ramsey showing improvement - note I did not say he was great nor did I say he projected to be a Pro Bowl contender this year - the Skins spent a lot of capital to move to a position to draft Jason Campbell to play QB. They did [B]not[/B] use that pick with the intention that Jason Campbell will be a clipboard holder for three or four years. They took a QB because [B]they think [/B] they need an upgrade at that position.

[Aside: Scouts and reporters are oohing and ahhing about how wonderfully Jason Campbell throws the ball in camp. Swell. I do recall that when Ramsey was drafted, the scouts and the reporters AND Sonny Jurgensen who knows something about throwing a ball were going into orgasmic raptures about how great Ramsey's arm was. Moral: Wait till you see offensive players in a game against defenses that are NFL caliber before entering a rapturous state.]

Here's what Ramsey needs to do to be a success [B]on this team in this season[/B]:

[B]Option #1:[/B] Skins win the NFC East Division Title. Doesn't matter what the record is, if the Skins are the Division Champs, Ramsey as the QB for the team is a success. The bottom lime is winning; it trumps ALL the other stats. The corrolary to this is that once in the playoffs, Ramsey cannot play so badly that he embarrasses the team; no bed-wetting is allowed in the playoffs

[B]Option #2:[/B] Skins do not win the Division so we have to look at stats to measure Ramsey's progress and justify his continued existence in DC:

[B]QB Rating:[/B] Minimum acceptable is 80. Good season is 85-87.

[B]TD/ INT Ratio:[/B] Minimum acceptable is 2. Good season is 2.2

[B]Red Zone effeiciency[/B]: Average points per Red Zone posession would be 4 to be minimally acceptable. Good season would be 4.5.

[B]3rd down efficiency[/B]: Minimum acceptable is 40%. Good season is 44-46%.

[B]Fumbles[/B] - whether lost or recovered - must be less than 10 for the year.

[B]Yards gained per pass attempt[/B]: [note: that is not per completion!] Minimum acceptable is 7. Good season is 8.5-9.0.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

I completely agree about winning. If we go 10-6 or 11-5 and Ramsey stinks it up, it STILL would be hard to shop him or think about trading him in the offseason.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

There is no doubt that Gibbs still has some questions about Ramsey, but he is still the guy for this season beyond a shadow of a doubt. If the Redskins have a losing season, Ramsey will be sitting the next year. 8-8 MIGHT keep Ramsey in, but Campbell will definitely be pushing the next season. So, SC is right, we HAVE to have winning season to solidify Ramsey as our guy for the long haul.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

Gibbs is in year 2 of a 5 year tenure. Finding out that you need a QB and trying to find him at the start of year 3 is a bad option. If Gibbs was 35 years old and planning to stay for 10 years, I don't think we would have traded to get Jason Campbell. What are are seeing is Gibbs plan of action to make sure he produces a winning team in the time that he can stay with the team.

If Campbell needs two years to develop, he could start in Gibbs 4th year. Chances are, his first real shot at going deep into the playoffs would be in Gibbs 5th (last) or 6th (good luck) season.

We traded next years number one pick and more to find some insurance for Gibbs to be able to win big before he retires for good.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Gibbs is in year 2 of a 5 year tenure. Finding out that you need a QB and trying to find him at the start of year 3 is a bad option. If Gibbs was 35 years old and planning to stay for 10 years, I don't think we would have traded to get Jason Campbell. What are are seeing is Gibbs plan of action to make sure he produces a winning team in the time that he can stay with the team.

If Campbell needs two years to develop, he could start in Gibbs 4th year. Chances are, his first real shot at going deep into the playoffs would be in Gibbs 5th (last) or 6th (good luck) season.

We traded next years number one pick and more to find some insurance for Gibbs to be able to win big before he retires for good.[/QUOTE]

Well said.

I think this offseason was a rude awakening for Gibbs in free agency. He saw so called "core guys" walk for more money. That could easily happen again, and god forbid it happens with Ramsey after he hypothetically puts up good numbers over the next two years. Then what? Campbell is Gibbs' insurance policy at QB.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

All this talk about Campbell being an insurance policy, we paid a hefty price for ins., and this plan doesn't cover a whole lot, we didn't draft a great college QB, and yet he's going to challenge for super bowl's in 2 years? What about the Brunell ins. policy, how did that work out?

Here's our ins. policy as it stand's, we are 1 hit away from having either Brunnell or Campbell starting for us this year, sound's to me like we have no ins. for the next 2 year's, but in 2 year's we will be set, that's if Ramsey fails, But if Ramsey can't get the job done under Gibbs, then good luck Campbell your going to need it.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

Only time will tell I guess.

In today's NFL I know it's all about now and what have you done for me lately, but there's nothing wrong with keeping an eye on the not so distant future.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

[QUOTE=offiss]All this talk about Campbell being an insurance policy, we paid a hefty price for ins., and this plan doesn't cover a whole lot, we didn't draft a great college QB, and yet he's going to challenge for super bowl's in 2 years? What about the Brunell ins. policy, how did that work out?

Here's our ins. policy as it stand's, we are 1 hit away from having either Brunnell or Campbell starting for us this year, sound's to me like we have no ins. for the next 2 year's, but in 2 year's we will be set, that's if Ramsey fails, But if Ramsey can't get the job done under Gibbs, then good luck Campbell your going to need it.[/QUOTE]

Would ya rather have signed another washed-up veteran like Brunell as a backup though?

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Would ya rather have signed another washed-up veteran like Brunell as a backup though?[/QUOTE]

No way, I was 1 of the guy's who didn't want Brunell in the first place.

But if we were going to look to the future it should have been done with Gibbs first draft when there was much more talent at the QB position, and then he would already had a year under his belt, the Brunell signing was a win now signing, now all of a sudden we pull an about face and we are building for the future at the QB position? With a coach who we all know doesn't have a big window of opportunity? With a player who at best is a project?

How bout drafting Matt Schaub the previous draft he went to the Falcons with the 27th pick in the 3rd rd, and will probably be better than Campbell, there are plenty of way's to get a backup at the QB position with some experience, right now we don't have a backup realistically, Campbell who is a 3 year project, or Brunell who is another year older, what do you think?

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

Schaub would have been a great pickup. But basically the nature of the free agent QB market in the NFL is that you are either a has-been or a never-was. There's just no gray area.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

[QUOTE=offiss]No way, I was 1 of the guy's who didn't want Brunell in the first place.

But if we were going to look to the future it should have been done with Gibbs first draft when there was much more talent at the QB position, and then he would already had a year under his belt, the Brunell signing was a win now signing, now all of a sudden we pull an about face and we are building for the future at the QB position? With a coach who we all know doesn't have a big window of opportunity? With a player who at best is a project?

How bout drafting Matt Schaub the previous draft he went to the Falcons with the 27th pick in the 3rd rd, and will probably be better than Campbell, there are plenty of way's to get a backup at the QB position with some experience, right now we don't have a backup realistically, Campbell who is a 3 year project, or Brunell who is another year older, what do you think?[/QUOTE]

Even if you didn't like Brunnel, there is no way you could have predicted the distaster he was last year. Gibbs had to get another guy. This is how he chose to do it.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Even if you didn't like Brunnel, there is no way you could have predicted the distaster he was last year. Gibbs had to get another guy. This is how he chose to do it.[/QUOTE]


Sorry but I was very close to that prediction as I stated many times before the trade that he was more of a playmaker than a passing QB and that doesn't fit into Gibbs offensive philosophy, as well as I also said his abiltity to run around and make play's is about over and he will have to rely on his passing skills to get by which I have never been a big believer in, as was neither Tom Coughlin who wanted to get rid of him back in Brunell's prime becuase he didn't believe he could win with him, did I believe he would be as bad as he was? No! But I couldn't imagine anyone being that bad.

I understand how Gibbs choose his new QB, the question is did he use the same evaluation process that he used to bring Brunell in? You no the process that had us give up a 2nd round pick and 43 million to a QB who was replaced by a rookie and was going to be released?

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

1. As I said a million times before the start of the season, I didn't like the trade because Brunell was a likely June 1 release, we gave up too high a pick, he's old, and his deal was too big.

2. I also thought Brunell would be successful here.

3. However, I said by week 3 that Brunell stunk and Gibbs was crazy for keeping him in there - even if he was coming to a new team, head coach, and offense. I also said Gibbs' offense stank up the joint and needed to change. I was totally ridiculed for making such calls. With an a-holeesque grin, I can say I was right on both counts; Brunell has been benched and Gibbs has admitted that he needed to make major changes to his offensive schemes (and offensive personnel) this off-season.

In any event, I don't think there's much room for debate about Brunell. We all now know it was a mistake (which even Gods like Gibbs are allowed to make every so often). So, lets put him (and Gibbs' 2004 offense) behind us. Gibbs learned from his mistakes and we're moving on with Ramsey.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

So what if Ramsey stinks after 3 weeks? Should we yank him or give him more of a chance to iron things out?

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

How many games did we give Brunell? I would say we yank Ramsey if he stinks it up as many games as Brunell. That was a long, HARD, BRUTALLY hard look, but we found he just doesn't have it.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]How many games did we give Brunell? I would say we yank Ramsey if he stinks it up as many games as Brunell. That was a long, HARD, BRUTALLY hard look, but we found he just doesn't have it.[/QUOTE]

I don't have the patience to wait that long. First off, last year was Gibbs' first year, so players at all positions still didn't know what they were doing. Brunell had to struggle with players not really knowing their assignments and an offensive line that wasn't working very cohesively. This year, that's not the case; all the players should know the system. So I'd figure if Ramsey stinks for 4 or 5 games, it's time to make a change. We can't let the season get away from us before we make a change at QB.

But he won't stink. Patrick has the talent and the leadership characteristics, the one thing he hasn't had any of is continuity around him. He's been yanked from the starting spot, had offensive systems changed, and all kinds of stuff. The only variables he's dealing with this year are a new center and new WRs. He should know the offense, and he's going to start. I like his chances to play at an 85+ QB rating, which is solid by NFL standards.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

I agree. And I don't think he will stink either. I just would hope that in the off-chance he does, Gibbs has learned that leaving someone in just a game or two too long could mean the difference between playoffs and sitting on your ass.

Re: Patrick Ramsey's Future
 

Gibbs has seen what the guys can do, so I don't expect him to leave anybody in too long that obviously isn't getting the job done.

I don't expect Ramsey to "stink it up." However, I believe he is going to have to play better than good enough to start.