Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Yeah, man, 156 yards passing...that's what it's all about, but he didn't throw a pick, so that makes it okay. He hasn't thrown for over 200 yards in 3 weeks and they're 1 and 2 in that span. He's also 3 and 6 in his last nine, but you'd write that off because he doesn't turn it over. Whatever man.[/QUOTE]

Do you prefer Heath Shuler, John Friesz, Gus Frerotte, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Green, Brad Johnson, Rodney Peete, Jeff George, Tony Banks, Kent Graham, Shane Matthews, Patrick Ramsey, Danny Wuerffel, Tim Hasselbeck and Rob Johnson.

Like I said he is the best thing that we have seen in years

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

Yes, I prefer Brad Johnson and Trent Green.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

clinton portis, from what i've seen and heard, is also a great teammate and a good locker room guy. both of those traits are also very important on a joe gibbs coached team.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

brad johnson, the only qb to take the skins to the playoffs in the last 10 years

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]brad johnson, the only qb to take the skins to the playoffs in the last 10 years[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I prefer to judge QBs based on winning.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

Why is it that the favorite QB on a team is the one who is not playing. It is unfair to critisize Brunell, he is probably the only good thing that has come out of this dismal season. He will retire as a Redskin and our playoff droubt will end under him.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Exactly. I prefer to judge QBs based on winning.[/QUOTE]


and he looks pretty good in minn. right know too.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]Why is it that the favorite QB on a team is the one who is not playing. It is unfair to critisize Brunell, he is probably the only good thing that has come out of this dismal season. He will retire as a Redskin and our playoff droubt will end under him.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say that I would prefer anyone else on the team be the QB. I said that Trent Green and Brad Johnson are better than Brunell. I didn't say I wanted Ramsey or Campbell to play.

There's no way, in my mind, you can absolve Mark Brunell from blame for this season.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Exactly. I prefer to judge QBs based on winning.[/QUOTE]

So, what do you judge RBs on because if you haven't noticed we are not winning.

I don't understand why so many praise Portis, and critisize Brunell. This is a team and everyone is equaly responsible for the loosing seasons.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]Why is it that the favorite QB on a team is the one who is not playing. It is unfair to critisize Brunell, he is probably the only good thing that has come out of this dismal season. He will retire as a Redskin and our playoff droubt will end under him.[/QUOTE]



i hope your right. brunell deserved all the criticism he recieved last year , as for this year, he is doing a much better job and i havn't seen a lot of criticism thrown at him this year coming from the warpath. he gets a little but then again everyone gets a little.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

And how can you say that Brunell is the only good thing to come out of this season? Clinton Portis is having a better year this year than he did last year. Santana Moss has been great. Ladell Betts has looked like a very good change of pace back. LaVar is back and he's starting to look like his old self.

But you would say that Brunell is the only good thing that came out of this season? Are you kidding me?

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]So, what do you judge RBs on because if you haven't noticed we are not winning.

I don't understand why so many praise Portis, and critisize Brunell. This is a team and everyone is equaly responsible for the loosing seasons.[/QUOTE]

I base my assessment of running backs on yards and yards per carry. Period. I pretty much judge QBs on winning, TDs and yards. Of those I would say that Portis qualifies as a very good back and Brunell is only a mediocre QB.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

at the end of the year, someone needs to make a Greatest Blocks compilation video for Portis. in fact they will probably make one for one of those AllMadden, Ironman post season shows.

if you think our vastly improved passing game has nothing to do with Portis's ability as a running threat, AND a blocker, you're simply not paying attention. whenever Portis sits out its because he's HITTING defensive linemen (to the ground), not because he's getting hit by them on runs. there are no stats or pro-bowl recognition for pass blocking, but he takes pride in it and has helped our team immensely.

he puts himself at risk because he also trusts his backups, without hesitation he'll also glady let Betts and Rock rack up the 4th quarter yds or Sellers get the TD. thats selflessness.

there should also be Press Conference compilation video. even after a gut wrenching 3 game losing streak - Portis is out there fighting for the team every week no matter what. Portis has done nothing but produce for the Redskins in every way, and always done alot more than what has been asked of him.

ask Gibbs (or Brunell) if he'd like anyone else at running back right now and he'd probably laugh right in your face.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

i would say santana moss is the best thing that has come this season. he is making life so much better for clinton and brunell. as a whole the skins offense looks much improved over last year.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]I base my assessment of running backs on yards and yards per carry. Period. I pretty much judge QBs on winning, TDs and yards. Of those I would say that Portis qualifies as a very good back and Brunell is only a mediocre QB.[/QUOTE]

following that logic, we should run out and get T.O. :frusty:

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

Based on what he does between the lines he's great. Would you argue that he's a great reciever? He's an asshole, but that doesn't mean he can't play the game. I wouldn't get him because there's no telling what he'd say to the media, but if I could get him to shut up and play, you're damn right I'd take him.

FYI, I'm not so naive that I think that anyone can get TO to shut up and play.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]following that logic, we should run out and get T.O. :frusty:[/QUOTE]



he never said what he basis a wr on .

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

Yards and Touchdowns, that's what I base em on. TO is a great wide receiver. You can't argue that.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]I base my assessment of running backs on yards and yards per carry. Period. I pretty much judge QBs on winning, TDs and yards. Of those I would say that Portis qualifies as a very good back and Brunell is only a mediocre QB.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't trade Brunell for any other QB right now. He has done more than enough to win games. Our problems lie within bad play calling, giving up big plays on defense, terrible game changing calls by the officials, not getting turnovers on defense, and poor play by special teams.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]I wouldn't trade Brunell for any other QB right now. He has done more than enough to win games. Our problems lie within bad play calling, giving up big plays on defense, terrible game changing calls by the officials, not getting turnovers on defense, and poor play by special teams.[/QUOTE]


you left out a huge problem and probably the biggest, too many 3 and out on offense , that mostly falls on gibbs and brunell . it also leads to a lot of the struggles on defense , the offense needs to be able to put together some drives so that the defense can catch thier breath.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]I wouldn't trade Brunell for any other QB right now. He has done more than enough to win games. Our problems lie within bad play calling, giving up big plays on defense, terrible game changing calls by the officials, not getting turnovers on defense, and poor play by special teams.[/QUOTE]

I would take a ton of QBs over Mark Brunell right now. I would agree that there have been break downs in other areas of the game, but he hasn't done much to make up for those shortcomings and that's the problem that I have with him. He never seems to play with any kind of urgency, outside of the Dallas game.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Based on what he does between the lines he's great. Would you argue that he's a great reciever? He's an asshole, but that doesn't mean he can't play the game. I wouldn't get him because there's no telling what he'd say to the media, but if I could get him to shut up and play, you're damn right I'd take him.

FYI, I'm not so naive that I think that anyone can get TO to shut up and play.[/QUOTE]

i'd say judging football players strictly by their stats is naive (as if Portis's yds were something to sneeze at). ask Gibbs and Williams what they think of doing that. better yet ask Andy Reid. ask him what a football TEAM is.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]i'd say judging football players strictly by their stats is naive (as if Portis's yds were something to sneeze at). ask Gibbs and Williams what they think of doing that. better yet ask Andy Reid. ask him what a football TEAM is.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say because there stats were great that made them good team players, that's what makes them great football players though. TO is a great wide reciever.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]I would take a ton of QBs over Mark Brunell right now. I would agree that there have been break downs in other areas of the game, but he hasn't done much to make up for those shortcomings and that's the problem that I have with him. He never seems to play with any kind of urgency, outside of the Dallas game.[/QUOTE]

You don't know greatness when it's staring you in the face.

How many QBs have only five interceptions at this point in the season.
Even "No Mistake" Jake has thrown more picks.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

like it or not , stats don't lie. all the good football players have good stats and all the crappy players have crappy stats. you may find a few exceptions but not many.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

I'm not saying that heart and character don't matter. I'm just saying that, in most cases, stats determine how good an offensive you are. More things come into play when you judge defensive players and I'm not even gonna get into that, so don't ask.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]You don't know greatness when it's staring you in the face.

How many QBs have only five interceptions at this point in the season.
Even "No Mistake" Jake has thrown more picks.[/QUOTE]


how many scoring drives has he led his team to compared to how many brunell has ?

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]I wouldn't trade Brunell for any other QB right now. He has done more than enough to win games. Our problems lie within bad play calling, giving up big plays on defense, terrible game changing calls by the officials, not getting turnovers on defense, and poor play by special teams.[/QUOTE]

you guys must not watch the games. instead you must just look at the numbers in the paper the next day. Portis has saved Brunell's ass SO many times...

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]You don't know greatness when it's staring you in the face.

How many QBs have only five interceptions at this point in the season.
Even "No Mistake" Jake has thrown more picks.[/QUOTE]

So the only stat you base a QBs greatness on is interceptions?

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]like it or not , stats don't lie. all the good football players have good stats and all the crappy players have crappy stats. you may find a few exceptions but not many.[/QUOTE]

point is, they don't keep stats for everything. guess all offensive linemen suck, they have no TDs, INTs, yards, OR sacks..

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]how many scoring drives has he led his team to compared to how many brunell has ?[/QUOTE]

Brunell has actually thrown more TDs than Plummer and Plummer has a 1 game advantage. Don't forget that Brunell was not our original starter in week 1.

Re: Portis Overrated? Agree or Disagree
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]Clinton Portis is one of the most overrated players in the NFL as he has one of the wealthiest contracts for a running back. He is not consistent and we can not rely on him in third down situations. Pay attention to the Redskins play calling, you will notice that our drives often end when we start giving him the ball. If he can't find yards in the first quarter, then he most likely won't find yards for the whole game. Opponents have commented on the size of our offensive line and their play so I do not believe that it is their falt. Sometimes in the NFL a running back must find a way to make something out of nothing, the great ones do. This could be why we have problems finishing games. He never seems to produce when it matters, such as LT did in the forth quarter and in overtime against our then top 10 defense. "I know I am not the only one who feels this way, Ask former Redskin Brian Mitchell."[/QUOTE]

Can't you see, we love Clinton here, whats the matter with you....this man comes and plays every game and worked harder this year to become a bigger back for Coach.....so please read the stats and do your research before you start Clinton bashing

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]you guys must not watch the games. instead you must just look at the numbers in the paper the next day. Portis has saved Brunell's ass SO many times...[/QUOTE]

Is picking up a blitz more important than yards?

I acknowledge there are plenty of things that don't show up on the stat sheet that are very important. However, Portis won't go to the Hall of Fame for picking up the blitz.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]you guys must not watch the games. instead you must just look at the numbers in the paper the next day. Portis has saved Brunell's ass SO many times...[/QUOTE]




who are you talking to when you say "you guys" ? because you just said exactly what everyone has been trying to tell ANTHONY CHANCE ever since he started this thread by calling portis overrated.:frusty:

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]Brunell has actually thrown more TDs than Plummer and Plummer has a 1 game advantage. Don't forget that Brunell was not our original starter in week 1.[/QUOTE]



scoring drives, not just tds. i thought field goals were scores. more importantly which qb has the LEAST amount of 3 and outs, because that is the real problem with the skins offense.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]point is, they don't keep stats for everything. guess all offensive linemen suck, they have no TDs, INTs, yards, OR sacks..[/QUOTE]

No, for them they keep stats like pancakes.

I don't only use stats to judge players, but come on, you can't tell me that stats aren't what get players signed. That's not to slight Portis's ability to pick up the blitz, but I saw an interview with Bugel right after they got him and he said they had no idea he could do it so well until he got there. OMG, they didn't bring Clinton in to block.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

not sure if you guys have noticed, but Gibbs, Williams and the whole Redskin framework is based on what they see players give to the team. they just don't do stat 'stars'. see what happened to Lavar. conversely, see Brunell's stats last year. you 'stats' guys are too busy playing fantasy football and not watching whats really going on in the games.

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]not sure if you guys have noticed, but Gibbs, Williams and the whole Redskin framework is based on what they see players give to the team. they just don't do stat 'stars'. see what happened to Lavar. conversely, see Brunell's stats last year. you 'stats' guys are too busy playing fantasy football and not watching whats really going on in the games.[/QUOTE]

So how do you determine how good a player is?

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=Anthony Chance]Brunell has actually thrown more TDs than Plummer and Plummer has a 1 game advantage. Don't forget that Brunell was not our original starter in week 1.[/QUOTE]

Your stat, INT percentage, which is apparently the one that makes Brunell great is rather revealing. Kerry Collins is tied with Peyton Manning and Matt Hasselbeck, are you saying that he's just as good as them?

Re: Portis Overrated?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]not sure if you guys have noticed, but Gibbs, Williams and the whole Redskin framework is based on what they see players give to the team. they just don't do stat 'stars'. see what happened to Lavar. conversely, see Brunell's stats last year. you 'stats' guys are too busy playing fantasy football and not watching whats really going on in the games.[/QUOTE]

I have never owned a fantasy team, I pay attention to the game. I am so [font='Times New Roman']obsessed with the Redskins that if I did own a fantasy team it would probably be composed of all Redskins players and on that note would not be successful. [/font]
[font='Times New Roman'][/font]
[font='Times New Roman']I could care less about stats, I guess if we were winning it would put everyone in a better mood.[/font]