Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Paintrain;961720]Yes, Shanahan made a bad trade for McNabb. Any other 2010 thread topics you'd like to revisit? Are you suggesting fire him now for a 2010 move?[/quote]

Well, as long as people are willing to go back 7 and 8 years to blame his "teambuilding" on Gibbs 2.0, Vinny Cerratto, Albert hayneworth and the state of the 2008-2009 squad, I'd say its fair to revisit a topic that about 2-3 years old. If anything had a bigger impact as far as stunting the growth and progress of our team, it was trading away a second rounder for an over the hill vet in order to "win now". That and changing a defense that in NO way needed changing, even with the "horrible" roster that was the 2008-2009 squad.

Shanahan has let the game pass him by. There are better coaches out there than him. Hire one of em, RG3 would only have one year gone, the rest of his career ahead of him. His three years of team building have netted the following....

1. Younger Squad (a plus)
2. Worst defense in the league
3. A Defense with zero depth on pace to allow the most yards EVER in the history of the NFL
4. An injury prone 46 million dollar receiver who is out the rest of the season, and has only really earned his paycheck in one out of his 4 games
5. The most penalized team in the league
6. A very sketchy special teams, revolving door at kicker
7. His son at Offensive coordinator, so firing due to underperformance or lack of progress is out the window
8. Throwing players under the bus and admitting defeat
9. A much happier sunshiney attitude at Redskins park, on every day of the week other than Sundays.
10. A 33.8% Win percentage
11. Abysmal home w/l record
12. Absolutely atrocious time management during games. Just awful.
13. Highly questionable offseason acquisitions that do not compute or support the "team building" concept (too many to list)
14. A rookie quarterback and runningback who are carrying the load of the rest of the deficient squad, enabling a mirage of competitiveness. (which also cost the next two first round draft picks, so combine that with the 18 million penalty next year, where are the pieces supposed to come from? Doesn't sound like he planned well for the pieces. Sounds like now its more of a 5-6 year plan from NOW in order to realistically think he will build a contender.
15. No sniff of the playoff in three years, check that, no sniff of a 8 win season in three years.



No way he deserves another year.

[QUOTE=Paintrain;961806]
Agreed, we are still losing. Understand are missing our #1 WR, our #1 TE, our starting RT, best pass rusher, starting DE and both projected starting safeties. Do you think any of those would make a difference in our record or it is all on Shanahan the coach?
[/QUOTE]

RT and both safeties still would have been big question marks. Garcon hurts for sure. Rak and Carriker too.

[QUOTE=Mechanix544;961811]Well, as long as people are willing to go back 7 and 8 years to blame his "teambuilding" on Gibbs 2.0, Vinny Cerratto, Albert hayneworth and the state of the 2008-2009 squad, I'd say its fair to revisit a topic that about 2-3 years old. If anything had a bigger impact as far as stunting the growth and progress of our team, it was trading away a second rounder for an over the hill vet in order to "win now". That and changing a defense that in NO way needed changing, even with the "horrible" roster that was the 2008-2009 squad.

Shanahan has let the game pass him by. There are better coaches out there than him. Hire one of em, RG3 would only have one year gone, the rest of his career ahead of him. His three years of team building have netted the following....

1. Younger Squad (a plus)
2. Worst defense in the league
3. A Defense with zero depth on pace to allow the most yards EVER in the history of the NFL
4. An injury prone 46 million dollar receiver who is out the rest of the season, and has only really earned his paycheck in one out of his 4 games
5. The most penalized team in the league
6. A very sketchy special teams, revolving door at kicker
7. His son at Offensive coordinator, so firing due to underperformance or lack of progress is out the window
8. Throwing players under the bus and admitting defeat
9. A much happier sunshiney attitude at Redskins park, on every day of the week other than Sundays.
10. A 33.8% Win percentage
11. Abysmal home w/l record
12. Absolutely atrocious time management during games. Just awful.
13. Highly questionable offseason acquisitions that do not compute or support the "team building" concept (too many to list)
14. A rookie quarterback and runningback who are carrying the load of the rest of the deficient squad, enabling a mirage of competitiveness. (which also cost the next two first round draft picks, so combine that with the 18 million penalty next year, where are the pieces supposed to come from? Doesn't sound like he planned well for the pieces. Sounds like now its more of a 5-6 year plan from NOW in order to realistically think he will build a contender.
15. No sniff of the playoff in three years, check that, no sniff of a 8 win season in three years.



No way he deserves another year.[/QUOTE]

Nice Mechanix.
Dont think Garcon was injury prone was he? Either way the rest of your observations totally outweigh that anyway.
Your point about RG-3 having only one year gone is my big concern. Everybody keeps saying lets not start over. however our D is a problem (and all of us agree on that) so we are going to have to start that over anyway when Haz is gone. That leaves the offense which obviously runs through RG-3. Shanny has been here three years, but Griff only one. So is it that big of a deal that he would have to "re-learn" a different offense in year two? He is a very smart kid - dont see that as a problem at all.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;961752]I assume you are being funny.[/quote]
no I wasnt,are you? I believe it was smootsmack who said he's heard that,he can correct me if he didnt and I apologize in advance

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=htownskinfan;961821]no I wasnt,are you? I believe it was smootsmack who said he's heard that,he can correct me if he didnt and I apologize in advance[/quote]

What are we talking about?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;961824]What are we talking about?[/quote]

about whether you had heard that Shanahan had lost the locker room,but now that I think about it I think you said it about Haslet if you indeed did say it:)

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;961817]Nice Mechanix.
Dont think Garcon was injury prone was he? Either way the rest of your observations totally outweigh that anyway.
Your point about RG-3 having only one year gone is my big concern. Everybody keeps saying lets not start over. however our D is a problem (and all of us agree on that) so we are going to have to start that over anyway when Haz is gone. That leaves the offense which obviously runs through RG-3. Shanny has been here three years, but Griff only one. So is it that big of a deal that he would have to "re-learn" a different offense in year two? He is a very smart kid - dont see that as a problem at all.[/quote]

he is now. that is all that counts to me. I don't care about him with indy, just like I didn't care about shanahans pre skins record or sucesses/failures. But now, after the team moving backwards other than RG3 and ALMo, his past is definitely becoming a pretty damning argument, as is his present.

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;961824]What are we talking about?[/QUOTE]

I believe anout shanny losing the team.

[QUOTE=Mechanix544;961828]he is now. that is all that counts to me. I don't care about him with indy, just like I didn't care about shanahans pre skins record or sucesses/failures. But now, after the team moving backwards other than RG3 and ALMo, his past is definitely becoming a pretty damning argument, as is his present.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with everything. Cant blame Shanny for not knowing Garcon was gonna get hurt but I blame him for alot also. You know that.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=htownskinfan;961827]about whether you had heard that Shanahan had lost the locker room,but now that I think about it I think you said it about Haslet if you indeed did say it:)[/quote]

Oh right Haslett. Yeah that's true

Edit : wrong thread sorry

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;961834]Lets just say MS is gone - next year - year after - whatever and Kyle aint in line to take over. What is everyones thoughts on these two guys.
Russ Grimm
Perry Fewell
Just curious?[/quote]

Take a look at the latest threads you'll find a place to discuss that

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;961829]I believe anout shanny losing the team.[/quote]

Or It might be about him pissing off a bunch of players in the locker room. But SS, weren't you the one that keeps saying the mood and environment at Redskins park is so much better now? If so, that's a damn short turnaround from changing the attitude and feeling of an entire organization, to a bunch of players losing the faith and confidence in their coaching staff halfway through the season. And I'd also wager that the defense knows damn well they suck donkey balls, and probably aren't in the greatest of spirits either. Shipping it in and saying things like shanny did is most definitely not the smartest thing to air out in front of your quarterback that you just bet the farm on. Too bad that farm has a thoroughbred, and not much else. Maybe some lame, dying calfs and a small chicken ( Brandon Banks ).

Shanahan is becoming the HC version of Cam Newton with his attitude and idiotic pressers. Newton without the previous years successes.

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;961836]Take a look at the latest threads you'll find a place to discuss that[/QUOTE]

Yeah sorry.
Moved it.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;961840]Or It might be about him pissing off a bunch of players in the locker room. But SS, weren't you the one that keeps saying the mood and environment at Redskins park is so much better now? If so, that's a damn short turnaround from changing the attitude and feeling of an entire organization, to a bunch of players losing the faith and confidence in their coaching staff halfway through the season. And I'd also wager that the defense knows damn well they suck donkey balls, and probably aren't in the greatest of spirits either. Shipping it in and saying things like shanny did is most definitely not the smartest thing to air out in front of your quarterback that you just bet the farm on. Too bad that farm has a thoroughbred, and not much else. Maybe some lame, dying calfs and a small chicken ( Brandon Banks ).

Shanahan is becoming the HC version of Cam Newton with his attitude and idiotic pressers. Newton without the previous years successes.[/quote]

What I said were a couple of key players have been upset with Haslett. That's it

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;961811]Well, as long as people are willing to go back 7 and 8 years to blame his "teambuilding" on Gibbs 2.0, Vinny Cerratto, Albert hayneworth and the state of the 2008-2009 squad, I'd say its fair to revisit a topic that about 2-3 years old. If anything had a bigger impact as far as stunting the growth and progress of our team, it was trading away a second rounder for an over the hill vet in order to "win now". [B]That and changing a defense that in NO way needed changing, even with the "horrible" roster that was the 2008-2009 squad.[/B][/quote] So there's no merit in the fact that of the players from the team that Shanahan inherited that are no longer Redskins only two (Rogers & Landry) are starting elsewhere? That roster had so much talent that only 6 others (Rinehart, Tryon, McIntosh, Campbell, Dockery, E. Williams) are still in the NFL 3 years later? 8 of 53 is a pretty rotten percentage.

McNabb trade, huge mistake, nobody would dispute that. I'd even agree with points 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 11 and 15 from your post. Too soon to call Garçon a bust. Now that Kyle has a QB to work with, the offense is productive.

You brought up the lack of #1 picks and $18 million cap penalty, so you think someone fresh and new will be able to reshape (meaning start over again) a roster in his vision with that looming on top of the long list you compiled? Good luck.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

As well they should be. But I believe that Shanahan deserves most of the blame. These are all his guys, after all. I am so tired of being negative about the redskins, but I really see the team as a whole regressing while RG3 tries to pick up the pieces himself. I am sure that he is capable, but the lack of help, even just on the defensive side of the ball, does not bode well for the future of the organization. Unless Shanahan has a deck full of aces up his sleeve, the way I see it, he is almost out of chips.

And hopefully excuses.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Paintrain;961852]So there's no merit in the fact that of the players from the team that Shanahan inherited that are no longer Redskins only two (Rogers & Landry) are starting elsewhere? That roster had so much talent that only 6 others (Rinehart, Tryon, McIntosh, Campbell, Dockery, E. Williams) are still in the NFL 3 years later? 8 of 53 is a pretty rotten percentage.

McNabb trade, huge mistake, nobody would dispute that. I'd even agree with points 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 11 and 15 from your post. Too soon to call Garçon a bust. Now that Kyle has a QB to work with, the offense is productive.

You brought up the lack of #1 picks and $18 million cap penalty, so you think someone fresh and new will be able to reshape (meaning start over again) a roster in his vision with that looming on top of the long list you compiled? Good luck.[/quote]

I think that bringing in a new defensive guy, as well as a new HC would not hurt. We are not exactly "winning", right now, why should shanahan keep his job? What makes you think it won't be more of the same? What has he done, and lets say just in season three, to instill any sort of confidence in his squad outside of RG3. the last 2 games, Almo even looked pedestrian. Goat was correct when he said the last 4 games, the defense has started to slowly roll downhill. Add penalties, injuries with no depth, and a horrible home winning %, and I don't see any coach with 1 playoff victory in 14 years that should keep his job with stuff looking like that. The question is will we fire shanahan. I'm pretty sure he is gonna get one more crack at a full season. The real question should be, if we do not make the playoffs next year, and say finish 8-8 or even 9-7, does that make up for the mediocre 4 years? Does shanny then get to stay on longer? Are we that desperate to feel that an 8-8 record is a step up? What is wrong with the fans. With a "pedigree" like Mike has, we should be screaming from the rooftops DEMANDING more. With him being such a winning coach, we sure do alot of losing. Again, and many have said it, many supposedly inferior coaches have done MUCH more with MUCH less. And he even has a rookie QB that plays like an elite vet, and still no results.

CUT BAIT.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

After years of poor drafts and ridiculous free-agent signings, it was unreasonable to think Shanahan could repair the lion’s share of the damage in one, two or even three years. This is a heavy-lifting task that can be solved only by trial and error.

But I do feel this team could have been a legitimate contender this season if not for the poor play of the defensive secondary blowing leads after the offense put the team in position for wins.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/mike-shanahan-deserves-a-chance-to-build-upon-rgiii-foundation/2012/11/06/23012622-281e-11e2-96b6-8e6a7524553f_story.html]Mike Shanahan deserves a chance to build upon RGIII foundation - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;961855]I think that bringing in a new defensive guy, as well as a new HC would not hurt. We are not exactly "winning", right now, why should shanahan keep his job? What makes you think it won't be more of the same? What has he done, and lets say just in season three, to instill any sort of confidence in his squad outside of RG3. the last 2 games, Almo even looked pedestrian. Goat was correct when he said the last 4 games, the defense has started to slowly roll downhill. Add penalties, injuries with no depth, and a horrible home winning %, and I don't see any coach with 1 playoff victory in 14 years that should keep his job with stuff looking like that. The question is will we fire shanahan. I'm pretty sure he is gonna get one more crack at a full season. The real question should be, if we do not make the playoffs next year, and say finish 8-8 or even 9-7, does that make up for the mediocre 4 years? Does shanny then get to stay on longer? Are we that desperate to feel that an 8-8 record is a step up? What is wrong with the fans. With a pedigree like Mike has, we should be screaming from the rooftops DEMANDING more.[/quote]

I'm with you on a new DC, we need better schemes, better coaching and better players. As for the HC, I don't think changing course at this point would be good long term for RGIII or the team as a whole. Next year I expect another solid draft and targeted free agency, 9 wins, that would represent progress.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Speaking for myself, I thought the Shanahan hire was terrific, and I was particularly pleased with Kyle coming as OC as I had read nothing but glowing reports about him. I didn't like the switch to the 3-4 nor Haslett to run it. I also didn't like Mike having total control of football operations as I read substantially more negatives than positive reviews. But take the good with the bad and go from there, which brings us to today.

The problem and main complaint I have is not so much Mike the Head Coach, but Mike the head of everything football related. Too many of the negative reviews have been verified, and I don't think the team can win with him in that role. At a minimum, I would like to see him lose power over football operations, and just be the Head Coach. Unfortunately, I don't see him giving that up at all, and that is the problem.

Shanahan was fired from Denver because he wielded too much power, was overbearing in personnel decisions, and took over every aspect of the organization to the point where everything was "Yes Sir". Irsay fired Polian this year for the same reason, he said that Bill just took over the entire organization. It was suffocating. Jerry Jones the same, he won't fire himself, and their team is a perennial shambles. Andy Reid and Bill Parcells became poor coaches when they became De Facto General Managers.


There are no checks and balances, it's Mike's way or the highway on most every single decision. The Head Coach cannot overcome the GM.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;957894]So let's JUST blame the players.

I know some people have been making stupid "fire x coach" comments/threads that are uncalled for. But how much does something fall on the players and how much does something fall on a coaches?[/quote]

He's not just the coach but he's the President of Football operations, in other words THEY ARE HIS PLAYERS!

[QUOTE=jdc65;961867]Speaking for myself, I thought the Shanahan hire was terrific, and I was particulary pleased with Kyle coming as OC as I had read nothing but glowing reports about him. I didn't like the swith to the 3-4 nor Haslett to run it. I also didn't like Mike having total control of football operations as I read substantially more negatives than positive reviews. But take the good with the bad and go from there, which brings us to today.

The problem and main complaint I have is not so much Mike the Head Coach, but Mike the head of everything football related. Too many of the negative reviews have been verified, and I don't think the team can win with him in that role. At a minimum, I would like to see him lose power over football operations, and just be the Head Coach. Unfortunately, I don't see him giving that up at all, and that is the problem.

Shanahan was fired from Denver because he wielded too much power, was overbearing in personnel decisions, and took over every aspect of the organization to the point where everything was "Yes Sir". Irsay fired Polian this year for the same reason, he said that Bill just took over the entire organization. It was suffocating. Jerry Jones the same, he won't fire himself, and their team is a perennial shambles. Andy Reid and Bill Parcells became poor coaches when they became De Facto General Managers.


There are no checks and balances, it's Mike's way or the highway on most every single decision. The Head Coach cannot overcome the GM.[/QUOTE]

Great post
I myself don't like the hiring your son as off co though,if he sucks are you gonna fire your son? Doubtful

[QUOTE=whistler;961908]He's not just the coach but he's the President of Football operations, in other words THEY ARE HIS PLAYERS![/QUOTE]

Such a simple concept that flies over so many heads.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

No IMO Mike's the man, I've sufferd through the pass 10+ yrs of AWFUL SKINS football, if it takes 4+ yrs to right the ship I'm OK with that. I beleive Mike's the man.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

All threads lead back to the Shannys and Haslett.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=htownskinfan;961911]Great post
I myself don't like the hiring your son as off co though,if he sucks are you gonna fire your son? Doubtful[/quote]

In hindsight, I agree completely with this now. I genuinely thought at the time that Kyle had head coaching potential, and would replace Mike to keep continuity going. It has become apparent that Kubiak was the real mastermind of the Texan offense. The father-son thing has to be somewhat irksome to the players as the OC gets a pass.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=jdc65;961930]In hindsight, I agree completely with this now. I genuinely thought at the time that Kyle had head coaching potential, and would replace Mike to keep continuity going. It has become apparent that Kubiak was the real mastermind of the Texan offense. The father-son thing has to be somewhat irksome to the players as the OC gets a pass.[/quote]

Its not so much as I think kyle is a bad off co,its the fact I dont think you can have an unbiased outlook on evaluating the position if he's your son

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=jdc65;961930]In hindsight, I agree completely with this now. I genuinely thought at the time that Kyle had head coaching potential, and would replace Mike to keep continuity going. It has become apparent that Kubiak was the real mastermind of the Texan offense. The father-son thing has to be somewhat irksome to the players as the OC gets a pass.[/quote]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[QUOTE=Bucket;961947]You have no idea what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]

Another comment full of substance. Dude youre killing me with your insight.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;961949]Another comment full of substance. Dude youre killing me with your insight.[/quote]

What would you like me to say? I get tired of repeating the same thing over and over again to random poster #2322 and so on.

It's the same thing every 4-5 pages. People say the same thing. One corner you have the Shanahan haters who spew non sense about anything to damage the man reputation, and the other corner you have people defending Shanahan no matter the faults.

Then you have people like me who are realists and didn't pick Shanahan as their head coach choice, but know it would cripple us for longer if we were to drop him now, then to give him his full contract term.

Besides.. most of your posts Punch are barely 2-3 sentences... I don't want to hear about mine.. So please refrain yourself. Thanks.

Edit : For example.. Your last 8-10 posts alone in this thread don't even equal 100 characters.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;961949]Another comment full of substance. Dude youre killing me with your insight.[/quote]

said the pot.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=That Guy;961958]said the pot.[/quote]

Shhh.. Don't let him know

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Edit to delete.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Mike Shanahan isn't the problem. It's been the defense in general for the reason why the team lost to St. Louis, Cincinnati, NYG, Atlanta, and Carolina. Jim Haslett might not even be fired. He might be retained. I don't think you can blame the defensive coordinator if you don't have the correct players playing defense.

[QUOTE=Bucket;961961]Shhh.. Don't let him know[/QUOTE]

Not one of my comments has ever resembled anything like - "you dont know what your talking about". You and that guy would really enjoy ES. You should both check it out. Its full of angry people that are more interested in arguing with others and starting shit than talking about the Redskins.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;961997]Not one of my comments has ever resembled anything like - "you dont know what your talking about". You and that guy would really enjoy ES. You should both check it out. Its full of angry people that are more interested in arguing with others and starting shit than talking about the Redskins.[/quote]


methinks you should take your own advice. I've been around here since what? 03/04? I think I understand this board pretty well overall, but go ahead, keep protesting. responding to every imagined slight seems to be your thing.

or you can spend 30 more posts telling us how much shannahan sucks, cause obviously by your post frequency, you're not quite done yet. I doubt i'll be wasting much more time with this thread. stay strong.

[QUOTE=That Guy;962001]methinks you should take your own advice. I've been around here since what? 03/04? I think I understand this board pretty well overall, but go ahead, keep protesting. responding to every imagined slight seems to be your thing.

or you can spend 30 more posts telling us how much shannahan sucks, cause obviously by your post frequency, you're not quite done yet. I doubt i'll be wasting much more time with this thread. stay strong.[/QUOTE]

Exactly what i thought - because i dont think Shanny is the guy thats going to get it done you have a problem with me. Classic.
I keep it all in this thread. I dont care how long you have been posting here. What does that mean? That i have to agree with you?
You have called me classless and also strait up asked me why i post so much in this thread? I imagined that - no you said it. Why, - Because im new to the site? Because i dont agree with you? Ive never called anyone on here a name or stupid - ive never once told anyone how much i think they should post or not post. Not sure what your problem is? Inbox me if you want to tell me how classless or annoying i am. Why go there for everyone else to see?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;961997]Not one of my comments has ever resembled anything like - "you dont know what your talking about". You and that guy would really enjoy ES. You should both check it out. Its full of angry people that are more interested in arguing with others and starting shit than talking about the Redskins.[/quote]

You hate on one site because you were banned. It was most likely because of the same stuff you do here. My opinion was he doesn't know what he's talking about. It's no different then you attacking me with your following post.

I'm not going to argue with anyone, you made a judge-mental post that was to initiate an argument with me, and then posted about how I would enjoy ES better because it's full of people that want to argue with each other..

The irony in all of that is beautiful.

I'm sure you will follow it all with some sort of "defense post" to make you look like a victim. Or,you will post another one sentence quirky post.

Either way, I wont be reading it because you have yet to give me any reason to read anything you post with much interest.

Edit : I don't mind if you dislike Shanahan, but if you don't enjoy what I post and if i'm not breaking rules. Either don't read it or don't post about it and not expect backlash.

/game

Sorry I brought the thread off topic. I was provoked. Please carry on.