Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;226187]Cornerback is one of those positions that you basically know what you've got right off the bat. It's a very instinctive position that shouldn't take much time to adjust to the NFL.

Look at it this way, we knew with Champ and Smoot pretty quickly what we had. If at this point Rogers is still "learning the ropes" then we've likely seen the best he has to offer.[/QUOTE]

I think it'd be different if Rogers was lining up on the other side of Springs, instead of Wright or Rumph. I mean Bailey lined up opposite Green/Sanders and then Smoot lined up opposite Champ

Not saying Rogers doesn't need to step up his game but it makes a big difference

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;226203]I really disagree.

Corner is one of the toughest positions to come in to as a rookie, especially in a defense like this that asks so much from the position.

Smoot struggled early on as well.[/QUOTE]

I guess we'll agree to disagree then. Because I maintain that with corners, you generally know what you've got as soon as they take the field. Smoot wasn't a shutdown corner, but a solid #2 -- and he was better than any cornerback we have right now, that's a certainty.

Rogers might be a decent nickel, but that's about it. After 17 games, I think he's proven that.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;226206]I think it'd be different if Rogers was lining up on the other side of Springs, instead of Wright or Rumph. I mean Bailey lined up opposite Green/Sanders and then Smoot lined up opposite Champ[/QUOTE]

Right, but at that time, the defense stuck our best corners on the best receivers. Gregg Williams makes it very clear that there is no such structure with his D -- so even if Rogers is sometimes lined up against the best, or a #2 or #3, his results are the same no matter who's on the opposite side of the field.

If Springs were here, teams would go after Rogers even more so -- and they'd have even more reason to do that when Gregg Williams himself admits that sometimes the rookie can be lined up against his opponents best wideout.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;226207]I guess we'll agree to disagree then. Because I maintain that with corners, you generally know what you've got as soon as they take the field. Smoot wasn't a shutdown corner, but a solid #2 -- and he was better than any cornerback we have right now, that's a certainty.

Rogers might be a decent nickel, but that's about it. After 17 games, I think he's proven that.[/quote]

Let's revisit this a year from now.

I still say it's too early to write him off.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

I think it is a little early to label Rogers as a bust and a decent nickel. With the injuries to Springs and Prioleau, he has been thrust into the #1 corner and at this point in his career, he is not at that level. He is a decent #2. He needs to capitalize on his opportunities, i.e. catch the damned ball. He is in position, he just not finishing off the play.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

The secondary is giving up too many big plays on third down. You can point out individual collapses, but its the entire unit. The defensive line is not helping matters either, no pressure on the quarterback makes it easy for opposing quarterbacks to find open receivers.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=hail_2_da_skins;226239]The secondary is giving up too many big plays on third down. You can point out individual collapses, but its the entire unit. The defensive line is not helping matters either, no pressure on the quarterback makes it easy for opposing quarterbacks to find open receivers.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you there, but lets remember: There is no #1 and #2 corner with Gregg Williams' defense. Sometimes Rogers is covering Terrell Owens, other times he's on Patrick Crayton. Williams will be the first to admit that.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

as an athlete, there comes a time where you need to step up and accept the challenge, or lay down on the porch like a sad puppy dog. it is about time for rogers to step up, and not everyone keep making excuses for him. its not entirely his fault, but when in man to man, he needs to tighten up

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;226248]I agree with you there, but lets remember: There is no #1 and #2 corner with Gregg Williams' defense. Sometimes Rogers is covering Terrell Owens, other times he's on Patrick Crayton. Williams will be the first to admit that.[/quote]

that's a lie made to appease the ego of fred smoot. springs just went along with it cause he knew better.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

honestly, corner takes a while to learn. ade turned from absolutely horribly worthless to below average in just three years.

rogers is an okay #2. he's not a burner though and matching him up with terry glenn isn't in his favor. he also drops easy ints, which makes that guy mad.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;226349]that's a lie made to appease the ego of fred smoot. springs just went along with it cause he knew better.[/QUOTE]

I have not been happy with the D this season. But giving up 19 points and the O getting only 3 points that is bad! The D has been holding up there part of this team for two seasons now while the O has been bad to so so. Will Springs make all our problems go away? Not unless he plays on the O side of the ball!!!!

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=RedskinPete;226355]I have not been happy with the D this season. But giving up 19 points and the O getting only 3 points that is bad! The D has been holding up there part of this team for two seasons now while the O has been bad to so so. Will Springs make all our problems go away? Not unless he plays on the O side of the ball!!!![/quote]

honestly our D is so bad i can't imagine one player can make that big a difference. if springs turns our D back into a top 5 unit by himself, he should be the unquestioned NFL MVP this year, hands down. our O didn't have the ball enough to do all that much. the D didn't give up many points, but they sure didn't help us win either.

not to say i'm excusing the offense. they did nothing as well.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete;226355]I have not been happy with the D this season. But giving up 19 points and the O getting only 3 points that is bad! The D has been holding up there part of this team for two seasons now while the O has been bad to so so. Will Springs make all our problems go away? Not unless he plays on the O side of the ball!!!![/QUOTE]

You know what's interesting. Since the beginning of 2005, the Redskins have scored at least 30 points in seven games. Only the Colts have done that more times, with nine games.

Take from that what you will

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=That Guy;226349]that's a lie made to appease the ego of fred smoot. springs just went along with it cause he knew better.[/quote]

hahaha

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;226415]You know what's interesting. Since the beginning of 2005, the Redskins have scored at least 30 points in seven games. Only the Colts have done that more times, with nine games.

Take from that what you will[/quote]

All that in spite of the worst QB in the league. Amazing.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;226415]You know what's interesting. Since the beginning of 2005, the Redskins have scored at least 30 points in seven games. Only the Colts have done that more times, with nine games.

Take from that what you will[/QUOTE]


That can be misleading though. While the Redskins may have had more 30+ point games than all but one other team, eleven teams still scored more points than they did in 2005.

So, in all of the other games, the Skins could be held to 3, like they were against the Giants, or 10 against the Cowboys, while other teams might be more apt to consistently score 21-29 points.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

Well scoring 9 against the Bears and getting shutout last year against the Giants didn't help.

But this was just addressed to those who act like every single game for the last two years we've barely managed a couple of field goals. That's all

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;226466]Well scoring 9 against the Bears and getting shutout last year against the Giants didn't help.

But this was just addressed to those who act like every single game for the last two years we've barely managed a couple of field goals. That's all[/quote]

I am sure both parties can agree that the offense is really hit or miss. Atleast recently.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;226466]Well scoring 9 against the Bears and getting shutout last year against the Giants didn't help.

But this was just addressed to those who act like every single game for the last two years we've barely managed a couple of field goals. That's all[/QUOTE]

No, I know what you're saying. The Redskin offense has certainly had its moments. That's a testament to how consistency is so difficult to attain.

Despite the outing against the Giants, I expect the offense to get that way as the season wears on.

The defense though, I have geniune concerns there.