Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=skins89moss;572629]Well if our O-Line scares you and [B]your not[/B] [B]sitting back there taking hits[/B], [B]than how will Jason Campbell feel[/B]? [B]Thats why he is a QB and your a fan[/B]. We got to Man Up and go kicks some azzzzz.[/quote]
exactly what does this mean?

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;572590]Our line is in big trouble at the moment. Someone might say this is jumping the gun, I would tell them to look at the last 8 games from last year...[/quote]

can anyone tell me the starting OLine lineup for the last 4 games of the year? Particularly SF and Cinci. I looked and found snippets, but couldn't find the straightforward LT, LG, C, RG, RT listings.

I ask because, in trying to either a) convince myself I am right or b) Cause me to doubt myself completely, I wanted to compare that group to the group we are looking at now. For example,
Cincy starters (I believe):

LT/RT Heyer/ Jansen, and clearly a below avg pairing
Heyer was not a great run blocker = reduced our running threat to the left
Jansen could not pass block anyone = Campbell on a**, Portis maybe maybe not

Backups - uh hey guy with the big beer belly seat 13, yes you , can you come out and cover LT for us. Thx.

Current starters
LT/RT Samuels/Heyer - I believe an above avg pairing

Samuels =if he's in I aint worried about the left side
Heyer = Competent pass and run block, ought to be a notch better this year

backups
Heyer = average LT (WOULD SO LIKE LEVI JONES IN THIS SPOT)
Bridges = proven starter, could fill believe he's a solid upgrade from last year.
wildcard -- can M Williams be ready by the bye week to be a suitable backup.

I believe the same kind of comparison could be made for the guard positions, but not as clear on them. as for the center, well I hope Edwin Williams is the real deal.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

Wow, didn't take long for the sky to start falling huh.

Look, some of these tweaks are things that wouldn't even be a blip on the radar during the season. But in August there's no reason to risk guys so a broken finger nail is going to keep a guy out of practice. Rabach is coming back today, and we knew from the start that Thomas was going to be brought along slowly during the preseason.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

Worreid about O-line but i got a feeling we gonna see production from the d-line like the days of Butz, Manley, and Mann once again!!! Half full.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

While I'm not panicking over Heyer, it's somewhat hard for me to understand why we don't go out and pick up Jon Runyan, who has been on the market all spring and summer. Even at his advanced age he's still an upgrade over Heyer, even when Heyer is healthy.

Maybe he's demanding a lot of $, I don't know. We don't have the cap space to go signing somebody to a deal with a significant signing bonus. But seems like we should at least stop to sniff that fire hydrant.

They have an open roster spot, Manapuna was released and nobody was signed to take his spot. Maybe Vinny's gearing up to do something (warning, pure speculation, no basis for this).

Re: Heyer Injured
 

Schneed do you have a ballpark of what we could sign someone for? I think they probably are looking for a solid OT but it seems like everyone may be asking too much right now.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

schneed, im with you on this. but Runyan probably wants more then a one year deal. i do agree even at his age, he is an upgrade

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;572646]Schneed do you have a ballpark of what we could sign someone for? I think they probably are looking for a solid OT but it seems like everyone may be asking too much right now.[/quote]

Well, apparently we just signed DJ Hackett and waived Roydell Williams. I'm guessing they offset each other when it comes to the cap.

After Jansen's release and allowing for rookie signings, we should have in the neighborhood of $2.0 million in space. CC is doing an update this week so we'll get a better number with more detail behind it then.

But assuming the $2.0 is right, and assuming we need to leave $0.5 available to help with other injuries, it sure seems like we can afford to pay somebody a Pete Kendall type deal. 1 or 2 years for $1.5 million per season.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

And apparently we signed this Marquart guy (a DT) to replace Manapuna's roster spot.

So there goes the theory that we are about to grab an OT. Doesn't mean it can't happen, I'm sure that as camp goes along if the coaches find reason to worry about RT, they'll send Vinny out to bark up all kinds of free agent trees.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Schneed10;572659]Well, apparently we just signed DJ Hackett and waived Roydell Williams. I'm guessing they offset each other when it comes to the cap.

After Jansen's release and allowing for rookie signings, we should have in the neighborhood of $2.0 million in space. CC is doing an update this week so we'll get a better number with more detail behind it then.

But assuming the $2.0 is right, and assuming we need to leave $0.5 available to help with other injuries, it sure seems like we can afford to pay somebody a Pete Kendall type deal. 1 or 2 years for $1.5 million per season.[/quote]
Good info, Thanks

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;572626]I don't know that happy is the right word. Just not panicked yet. Like I said, this is not the same line that finished the year. Dockery is younger, at least equal to kendall, samuels is healthy, heyer has a competent backup in bridges, jansen is gone. I am hopeful that rinehart will be more prepared,.

To me the center is the only spot we are just thin at.

if u look across the nfl at the best lines, I am confident most teams, are allowing there vet lines some grace time. I know dallas is, philly had both tackles held out the last two practices, I don't know about the giants. If we get to the baltimore game and our oline starters don't take the field as a unit for several series, then I will worry.

One final point, there just isn't much talent sitting out there that would upgrade your two concerns, health and age. Levi jones would, but as I said earlier he is waiting, otherwise who do we plug in that would be better than the youth we already have, and are trying to train (rinehart, williams the center, bridges).

I don't expect this line to be all-pro hogs style. But I expect that our talent positions, CP, Campbell, will be given enough time and holes to get a better job done.

By the way, the line about the koolaid was classic

Let's keep drinking at least until we see the group in action, I do have an extra cup if you want one :)[/quote]


Can you put about 3 ounces of vodka in that cup before you pass it over....

I worry more about our line because I think the other 3 lines in the division are proven compared to our's which was an obvious question mark going to the offseason. Obviously, little was done to upgrade it.

I think Bridges could start game one and it would not hurt us at all. In fact, I believe he may earn a starting spot at guard or tackle outright.

I am glad that Reinhart is doing better but I am not sure he can be trusted yet.

I know Heyer will come back but I don't know if I feel comfortable with him as the starter even if he is 100%.

It seems that Jones may be too expensive so they should see if Runyan might have some interest. He is definitely familiar with the division... I really never wanted to see him in the Redskins uniform but oh well.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;572671]Can you put about 3 ounces of vodka in that cup before you pass it over....

[B]I worry more about our line because I think the other 3 lines in the division are proven compared to our's[/B] which was an obvious question mark going to the offseason. Obviously, little was done to upgrade it.

I think Bridges could start game one and it would not hurt us at all. In fact, I believe he may earn a starting spot at guard or tackle outright.

I am glad that Reinhart is doing better but I am not sure he can be trusted yet.

I know Heyer will come back but I don't know if I feel comfortable with him as the starter even if he is 100%.

It seems that Jones may be too expensive so they should see if Runyan might have some interest. He is definitely familiar with the division... I really never wanted to see him in the Redskins uniform but oh well.[/quote]

I'm not sure.

Dallas: last year had troubles at both guard and tackle. Adams has been going downhill and may be worse this year

Philly: counting people who change positions, 3/5 of their line is new this year, and they had trouble at center last year but didn't change anything regarding that position

NYG: pretty solid, but they've been lucky with injuries

It seems to me that almost every team in the NFC Beast is struggling with offensive line woes.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Mattyk72;572640]Wow, didn't take long for the sky to start falling huh.

Look, some of these tweaks are things that wouldn't even be a blip on the radar during the season. But in August there's no reason to risk guys so a broken finger nail is going to keep a guy out of practice. Rabach is coming back today, and we knew from the start that Thomas was going to be brought along slowly during the preseason.[/quote]

A voice of reason.

Better to have Thomas sit out of camp but be healthy for Dallas than the other way around.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

There's no need to panic, but it's hard to be comfortable with our current linemen. Even Zorn admitted he was reluctant to call deep passing plays last season because he didn't think our line would give Jason time. Is there any reason to think our line will be able to provide Jason with more time this season?

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Lotus;572692]I'm not sure.

Dallas: last year had troubles at both guard and tackle. Adams has been going downhill and may be worse this year

Philly: counting people who change positions, 3/5 of their line is new this year, and they had trouble at center last year but didn't change anything regarding that position

NYG: pretty solid, but they've been lucky with injuries

It seems to me that almost every team in the NFC Beast is struggling with offensive line woes.[/quote]

True true, in fact Dallas says the same thing about how JJ won't draft line talent, but in their case I understand it more. They had many picks in the later rounds to pick out several OL to see what they could find, but didn't. I still think we have the second best situation, like you said the Giants have been lucky, but still they have a solid line and they probably would survive an injury, because their backups have had lots of practice.

Dallas is in way worse shape then us, they have no real youth, and Flozell between his false starts and getting worse health is not the force he once was. The rest of their line is average. They are counting on running alot this year, like us, and I think their line will not hold up. We all know its three games if TR hurts his pinky. ;) I would be ok with AH gunning for a pinky LOL

The Eagles. I've never seen a team get so many passes. If we had gotten Andrews or Peters again, DS would be ridiculed for overpaying underperforming athletes. What a joke, AH after 2 lights out seasons, and an expressed desire to prove he is the best gets criticized as a slacker, while J Peters has a poor year and gets called the steal of the off season, or a great move by the Eagles. If he has a better year than AH I will eat suishi! (some may not consider that a punishment, but for me it is.)

All in all, we are looking good.

by the way did anyone else see the Texans lost a starting CB to a fractured leg. I am not trying to invoke karma, but really lets compare around the league.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;572697]There's no need to panic, but it's hard to be comfortable with our current linemen. Even Zorn admitted he was reluctant to call deep passing plays last season because he didn't think our line would give Jason time. Is there any reason to think our line will be able to provide Jason with more time this season?[/quote]

late in the season wasn't this line. I went through it somewhere else, but Jansen gone, Geisinger gone, other depth linemen gone. Samuels Healthy, Bridges here, Dockery here.

There was no splashy off season acquisition, but neither is this the same group that crashed so spectacularly last year. I think the FO's approach was something along the lines of : Our starters healthy went 6-2, our backups went 2-6 --- FIRE the backups. So they did and went and got a whole bunch of new back ups. I hope they are right.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;572699]late in the season wasn't this line. I went through it somewhere else, but Jansen gone, Geisinger gone, other depth linemen gone. Samuels Healthy, Bridges here, Dockery here.

There was no splashy off season acquisition, but neither is this the same group that crashed so spectacularly last year. I think the FO's approach was something along the lines of : Our starters healthy went 6-2, our backups went 2-6 --- FIRE the backups. So they did and went and got a whole bunch of new back ups. I hope they are right.[/quote]

good points

Overall could we be in a more favorable situation? Sure. But I'm far from hitting the panic button over your typical training camp bumps and bruises. Last I checked we haven't lost anyone to a significant injury.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;572699]late in the season wasn't this line. I went through it somewhere else, but Jansen gone, Geisinger gone, other depth linemen gone. Samuels Healthy, Bridges here, Dockery here.

There was no splashy off season acquisition, but neither is this the same group that crashed so spectacularly last year. I think the FO's approach was something along the lines of : Our starters healthy went 6-2, our backups went 2-6 --- FIRE the backups. So they did and went and got a whole bunch of new back ups. I hope they are right.[/quote]

Good points. My biggest problem is I just don't see anyone on our roster who can step in and play right tackle. I always liked Heyer as a backup, but I don't trust him as a starter. And I certainly don't trust Mike Williams as a right tackle either.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

PINEAPPLE JESUS gear? THAT is...............incredible

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;572704]Good points. My biggest problem is I just don't see anyone on our roster who can step in and play right tackle. I always liked Heyer as a backup, but I don't trust him as a starter. And I certainly don't trust Mike Williams as a right tackle either.[/quote]

I hear ya, and I wanted Oher real bad at the draft, but when Orakpo was there I understood. After that any RT taken or acquired was, in my opinion as big a crap shoot as Heyer, and he has been in our system.

I have this basic belief in a healthy Samuels, if he is in and playing teams will have to account for it, and the rest of the line is better. when/if he gets hurt the defenses can attack more at our weaker RT and we get stuck. I hope Bridges can be that effective fill in if Heyer has to go to the LT spot. but we will only know it on the field.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;572697]There's no need to panic, but it's hard to be comfortable with our current linemen. [B]Even Zorn admitted he was reluctant to call deep passing plays last season because he didn't think our line would give Jason time. Is there any reason to think our line will be able to provide Jason with more time this season?[/B][/quote]

These are my feelings as well. What bothers me more is not the line itself, but the fact almost nothing was done to change what the head coach noted was lacking.

Why are Zorn's concerns not addressed via free agency or draft? Is this whole get the best talent thing panning out? Especially when the need is so severe.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;572699] Our starters healthy went 6-2, our backups went 2-6 --- FIRE the backups. So they did and went and got a whole bunch of new back ups. I hope they are right.[/quote]

That is a good way of looking at it...

*sigh* I just have to wait and hope it works out.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;572707]I hear ya, and [B]I wanted Oher real bad at the draft, but when Orakpo was there I understood. After that any RT taken or acquired was, in my opinion as big a crap shoot as Heyer, and he has been in our system.[/B]

I have this basic belief in a healthy Samuels, if he is in and playing teams will have to account for it, and the rest of the line is better. when/if he gets hurt the defenses can attack more at our weaker RT and we get stuck. I hope Bridges can be that effective fill in if Heyer has to go to the LT spot. but we will only know it on the field.[/quote]

This is an excellent point which goes unnoticed by many folks who scream, "Why didn't they draft an OT?"

In the '08 draft the best WR on many boards fell into our lap. In the '09 draft the best defensive player on many boards fell in our lap. Perhaps '10 will be the year for a tackle to miraculously appear.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

Just got a tweet from Redskins Insider - Heyer's MRI on his knee revealed no structural damage, so they're just going to give him a few days rest. Phew.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Lotus;572737]This is an excellent point which goes unnoticed by many folks who scream, "Why didn't they draft an OT?"

In the '08 draft the best WR on many boards fell into our lap. In the '09 draft the best defensive player on many boards fell in our lap. Perhaps '10 will be the year for a tackle to miraculously appear.[/quote]

Yeah, and we will always fill our draft needs a season too late. Never going to win the big one that way. We need to do a better job of projecting and filling needs before or as they happen instead of always playing catch up a season later.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

We need the Jason Campbell haters to come out and rant that last year's demise was entirely his fault. Maybe this will come down the gloom and doom crowd about the offensive line.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

Redskins offensive line coach Joe Bugel admitted that he is "concerned" with the health of RG Randy Thomas.

Thomas is still having problems with the knee he had scoped in May, and isn't practicing. "I'm concerned about Randy," Bugel said. "Randy's had some problems."

Heres the deal, Bridges is going to have to start at RG this year!! [COLOR="DarkRed"]And no one believes [/COLOR]that Heyer is capable of starting 16 games..Its a no brainer that we must bring in the best RT left óf the FA's....

Re: Heyer Injured
 

Joe Bugel: "I don't know why everyone is really concerned about RT. That aggravates me."
[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2009/08/05/morning-practice-clinton-drives-the-equipment-cart/#continued]Morning Practice - Clinton Drives The Equipment Cart[/url]

Re: Heyer Injured
 

lol @ Buges

Always a grump

Re: Heyer Injured
 

This made me laugh

[quote]On the field, Jason Campbell had a very good day, as did Santana Moss. On at least one occasion, [B]Moss's good day came at the expense of Fred Smoot, who did not have quite as good a day[/B].
[/quote]

As did this [quote]Oh, and [B]Colt Brennan[/B] threw a long touchdown pass to Moss that should get the Cult of Colt all riled up, but I didn't get a picture of it. Instead, here's Brennan from the other day, punching out a tackling dummy. Close enough.
[/quote]

Re: Heyer Injured
 

Carolina just lost Kemoeatu, a starting defensive tackle, and they are thin there.

So I say we offer them Golston or Montgomery. We offer someone else like Doughty or Blades, perhaps as well as a late-round pick next year.

In return, we get Jeff Otah or Jordan Gross.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

Buges take on RT sounds good
[quote]"I don't know why everyone is really concerned about right tackle," he said. [B]"That aggravates me. We've got great candidates here. Heyer has played there, he's started there. [Jeremy] Bridges has started in the league right there. We're not desperate in that position.[/B] We've got Mike Williams, who's really come on. He had a little bit of a groin injury right there. So, we've got plenty of beef right there, just coach them hard. You can get Humpty Dumpty to get in there -- as long as the guy is tough, I'll coach him. Don't be worried about the right tackle."[/quote]

But
[quote]"There are some guys that really jumped to the top. Devin Clark, we had thought he wouldn't be able to play tackle because of the high rushers, and he is having an awesome camp. I'm real pleased with that [B]because we needed someone behind Chris Samuels.[/B]" [/quote]
Again, I am more concerned about this spot than RT.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

With Heyer healthy the O-Line was looking bad. How's it going to be if a couple of key guys get hurt? The D-Line is tearing them up anyway.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Lotus;572808]Carolina just lost Kemoeatu, a starting defensive tackle, and they are thin there.

So I say we offer them Golston or Montgomery. We offer someone else like Doughty or Blades, perhaps as well as a late-round pick next year.

In return, we get Jeff Otah or Jordan Gross.[/quote]

Nice idea Lotus. I think we need to shore up the o-line w/ MW visibly struggling and Heyer hobbled up. Good to hear the knee doesn't have structural damage but again I just feel he's a bit of the risk there at RT.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Lotus;572808]Carolina just lost Kemoeatu, a starting defensive tackle, and they are thin there.

So I say we offer them Golston or Montgomery. We offer someone else like Doughty or Blades, perhaps as well as a late-round pick next year.

In return, we get Jeff Otah or Jordan Gross.[/quote]

If we suggested that trade the Carolina GM would tell Vinny that is the worst trade proposal he had ever heard of in his life and thank us for the laugh.

The other team isn't about to give away a Pro Bowler or a first round pick from two years ago for a bunch of nothing in terms of trade value.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=wilsowilso;572819]If we suggested that trade the Carolina GM would tell Vinny that is the worst trade proposal he had ever heard of in his life and thank us for the laugh.

The other team isn't about to give away a Pro Bowler or a high first round pick from two years ago for a bunch of nothing in terms of trade value.[/quote]

Fair enough.

We just have riches now at defensive tackle and I thought we could parlay them into help elsewhere.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Ruhskins;572766]We need the Jason Campbell haters to come out and rant that last year's demise was entirely his fault. Maybe this will come down the gloom and doom crowd about the offensive line.[/quote]

Do you think that they O-Line will be ready to start against the GMen and win? I'm more than confident about about the D. Even the special teams will be better with Hunter. I'm not hating on the O-Line, but as of right now I don't think they're a "Championship Level" squad.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

Ok, try this:

Trade Golston or Monty, plus Doughty, to Jax for Tony Pashos.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Lotus;572820]Fair enough.

We just have riches now at defensive tackle and I thought we could parlay them into help elsewhere.[/quote]

I agree, but if we are going to trade backup players we are getting backups in return.

Re: Heyer Injured
 

[quote=Lotus;572826]Ok, try this:

Trade Golston or Monty, plus Doughty, to Jax for Tony Pashos.[/quote]

Something like this is much closer to what could happen. Does JAX have a big need at DT like Carolina does?