Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

They should have kept Jackson he was better in coverage than Rak. We spent alot of time developing him.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

Rob Jackson is irrelevant. There is a reason no one has signed him.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[QUOTE=donofriose;1090492]Rob Jackson is irrelevant. There is a reason no one has signed him.[/QUOTE]


Exactly. If he was any better than Rak in coverage he wouldn't be watching games on his sofa this season. We did spend a lot of time developing him, but to me that just tells me either our talent evaluators are not finding the right pieces, our coaching is falling short, or...a little of both.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1090489]I still can't see the FO's logic in letting Rob Jackson go only to take a chance on a draft pick, most 3-4 OLBs struggle rookie season. Jackson stepped in and made an impact at every opportunity.

Meanwhile RT doesn't get upgraded. BA hasn't been great in the personnel decisions and maybe the biggest thing holding team back. That and RG's injuries.[/quote]

You act like Rob Jackson was a stud from day 1 in the NFL and teams were shocked when he was cut and a bidding war began.

He did almost nothing his first 3 years in the league and is still without a team now.

Good guy, decent player. But that's it

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

As usual, John Keim hits the nail on the head:

"Rushing the passer is about more than sacks, and Orakpo influences the pass rush. But when you're being paid $11.45 million for one season and when you want to be paid even more, then you have to do more than set up others. You have to make game-changing plays. In the end, that's what Orakpo has failed to do in Washington...

To have a strong 3-4 defense, you must have pass-rushing outside linebackers. That's why ultimately the Redskins brought back Orakpo. They could have invested at other defensive positions, but were reluctant to spend a lot on a safety (they needed two).

If you're going to overpay, it should be at a premium position. And pass-rushers help you win on defense, and the Redskins hoped the extra help would transform Orakpo from a guy with a career-best 11 sacks in one season to someone who could record several more.

[B]In his first five seasons, Orakpo intercepted one pass and forced six fumbles (while recording 39.5 sacks). [/B][B]Some linebackers being paid the kind of money Orakpo seeks have forced the same number of turnovers in one season.[/B] And it was clear in the spring from coach Jay Gruden that these sort of plays were expected."

(The bolded part is my doing)

Thank you John Keim for summing it all up. That's a wrap, folks. Brian Orakpo is already so far gone that he is nearly over the horizon. Book it.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

Gotta give credit to Bruce and FO for not locking up Orakpo to a major deal when we clearly had the cap room. The franchise tag play was perfect by the club. kudos to team.

Like to see Murphy step in, but also would like another player in the mix for playing time.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=donofriose;1090492]Rob Jackson is irrelevant. There is a reason no one has signed him.[/quote]
Good special teams bargain.......?

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1090512]
To have a strong 3-4 defense, you must have pass-rushing outside linebackers. That's why ultimately the Redskins brought back Orakpo. They could have invested at other defensive positions, but were reluctant to spend a lot on a safety (they needed two).
[/quote]


This is why I've never been a fan of the 3-4 Defense, it requires having too many of the right players in the right position due to the fact that you only have three lineman and are forced to rely on the lighter linebackers to help pressure the passer (I much prefer the 4-3, where you have two tackles, both of who are typically better matched up against the Offensive lineman, I feel this gives you more room for error as even just the 4 man line may be able to bring pressure without needing the Linebackers, freeing them up to assist the secondary)

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

If Orakpo is willing to come back at around 5-6 million, I'd be all for it. He brings a lot of pressure, he just hasn't been able to close the deals this year. Plus, he's solid in pass coverage and has become a good run defender as well. I like Trent Murphy, but he hasn't show he can rush from the outside yet. I guess we'll see this next Monday.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1090530]This is why I've never been a fan of the 3-4 Defense, it requires having too many of the right players in the right position due to the fact that you only have three lineman and are forced to rely on the lighter linebackers to help pressure the passer (I much prefer the 4-3, where you have two tackles, both of who are typically better matched up against the Offensive lineman, I feel this gives you more room for error as even just the 4 man line may be able to bring pressure without needing the Linebackers, freeing them up to assist the secondary)[/quote]

good post and welcome.

the 3-4 has not really worked here and like you said, it requires very specific players with very specific skill sets.

i think the loss of cofield is huge as our NT.

last year i think we played out of nickel (4 down lineman) like 60% of the time. cooley sd if you want to run on the skins, just go nickel on offense so we have to match and then run the ball. he sd our 3-4 is very good at the run but teams know they can get us out of the 3-4 and then run it.

i want to stick with the 3-4 but i am worried that our FO spends so much time and energy looking for 3-4 specific guys .... only to have out true base D be a nickel.

one thing is certain - this D has not really gelled since greg blache.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

Ah yes, the Greg Blache glory days. Who can forget that juggernaut of a D?

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Mattyk;1090538]Ah yes, the Greg Blache glory days. Who can forget that juggernaut of a D?[/quote]

lol yeah. lots of bored skins fans back then. good solid D with no turnovers paired with a low scoring, 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Mattyk;1090538]Ah yes, the Greg Blache glory days. Who can forget that juggernaut of a D?[/quote]
That's when you know the season has gone off the rails when people are pining for Greg Bland..I mean Blache.. What's next, complaining that maybe Jay Gruden needs help calling plays from Sherman Lewis?

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1090530]This is why I've never been a fan of the 3-4 Defense, it requires having too many of the right players in the right position due to the fact that you only have three lineman and are forced to rely on the lighter linebackers to help pressure the passer (I much prefer the 4-3, where you have two tackles, both of who are typically better matched up against the Offensive lineman, I feel this gives you more room for error as even just the 4 man line may be able to bring pressure without needing the Linebackers, freeing them up to assist the secondary)[/quote]

The thing I dislike about the 3-4 is that not as many colleges run it compared to the number of pro defenses. thus the number of quality nose tackles out there is limited. Some profess that DTs can be good NT but I think that transition is harder than many realize.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

I'm going to trump all of you and pine for the return of Richie Petitbon. But only as a defensive coordinator.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1090542]The thing I dislike about the 3-4 is that not as many colleges run it compared to the number of pro defenses. thus the number of quality nose tackles out there is limited. Some profess that DTs can be good NT but I think that transition is harder than many realize.[/quote]

Well doing the 3-4 at college level would be difficult, due to the fact that you're dealing with people who have not completely physically matured.

The ideal NT for a 3-4 is someone huge and powerful who basically needs to be double teamed on every play.

Many of the college guys, especially the Freshmen and Sophomores, are probably still bulking up at that point, and are unlikely to be able to play that position well.

You might find a few already at that point, but they would be the rarity not the rule.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=skinsguy;1090546]I'm going to trump all of you and pine for the return of Richie Petitbon. But only as a defensive coordinator.[/quote]

Pretty good chance Mike Nolan will be available after this year. Maybe Danny can send out for some more ice cream.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

The Cowboys just cut Michael Sam from the practice squad. Isn't he supposed to be a good pass rusher? Should we sign him or is he not NFL material?

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Counter-Tre;1090555]The Cowboys just cut Michael Sam from the practice squad. Isn't he supposed to be a good pass rusher? Should we sign him or is he not NFL material?[/quote]

Media circus - strike one
Former Cowboy - strike two (not really but I'm working a theme here)
Cut from 2 practice squads - strike three

No upside to bringing him in.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1090252]This is who we should sign if the Lions don't franchise him:

Ndamukong Suh[/quote]

Why would we sign Suh he plays in the 4-3 def we run the 3-4？

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Counter-Tre;1090555]The Cowboys just cut Michael Sam from the practice squad. Isn't he supposed to be a good pass rusher? Should we sign him or is he not NFL material?[/quote]

maybe just bring him in for the cowboys game and try to find their achillies (hint: stop Murray). Of course i would love to see Sam in the game, sack Romo and see a pelvic thrust sack celebration on the cowboy star in primetime.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Counter-Tre;1090555]The Cowboys just cut Michael Sam from the practice squad. Isn't he supposed to be a good pass rusher? Should we sign him or is he not NFL material?[/quote]

I was thinking just this when I saw the news on ESPN. I think we should take a look at Sam and sign him to the practice squad. He can rush the passer and with Rak gone for the season we need depth at the at the position. We have Jeffcoat and Gabe Miller on PS right now. Bring in Sam and see what he has . He can also give us some 411 on the Cowboys defense.

As far a PR it would be positive for the Redskins who many people view as negative. The gay community would be happy and maybe we get lucky that Sam can play . It's a no lose situation .

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1090481]I was against the Haynesworth signing, Suh is in shape and dominates everyone. How are the lions D doing?[/quote]

Lions D is fine, how's the team doing? Suh is the reason they're going to the Superbowl huh?

At what point do you want to start maneuvering like the model franchises in this league? Suh isn't the missing piece, doesn't fill a need, doesn't make us a contender - we're not one move away.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

Sam is a 4-3 end. No fit here.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

I think Orakpo will get a decent deal (3-5M) on a 4-3 team and do pretty well at DE. His big rookie year he did most of his damage from the 3 point stance. He hasn't played at a Pro Bowl level since that rookie campaign. He has the physical tools and talent, but I don't think his stay will be in Washington. I wish him the best of luck going forward.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

If Haslett gets canned, will we go back to a 4/3. Experts say going to a 3/4 is difficult, but how difficult is it going back to a 4/3.

I'm not an expert but I have always thought the defensive was better suited to play in a 4/3.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Kindoy;1090574]Lions D is fine, how's the team doing? Suh is the reason they're going to the Superbowl huh.[/quote]

5-2 a top the NFC North, allowing the seconds fewest point in the NFL with some crappy DB's, meaning the DLinemen are doing an awesome job. Oh yeah, no Calvin Johnson and Reggie Bush.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Kindoy;1090574]Lions D is fine, how's the team doing? Suh is the reason they're going to the Superbowl huh?

At what point do you want to start maneuvering like the model franchises in this league? Suh isn't the missing piece, doesn't fill a need, doesn't make us a contender - we're not one move away.[/quote]

The Lions have always had a good offense, with no defense to go along. I think they finally have a defense to complement their offense.

It seems that around here no one wants to get this whole concept of having both good offenses and defenses, realizing that one unit affects the other, and that the faults of one of the units will affect the other.

I don't know who would see our team this year, and think that defense is the only problem and getting an expensive defensive player will fix everything.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1090581]If Haslett gets canned, will we go back to a 4/3. Experts say going to a 3/4 is difficult, but how difficult is it going back to a 4/3.

I'm not an expert but I have always thought the defensive was better suited to play in a 4/3.[/quote]

4/3 is definitely more plug and play and easier to find personnel from the draft.

A well built 3/4 that is clicking is a tough defense to face because the players in pass protection are never 100% sure where the pressure is coming from and the half second it takes to read and react gives the rushers a leg up.

Shanny switched to a 3/4 which required completely new personnel and did not invest on the defensive side of the ball in the draft. The cap hit hurt too.

Jarvis Jenkins was our defensive line draft pick? What did everyone expect?

I believe converting back to 4/3 is easier.

Also, because of the reality of injuries keeping players sidelined and availability through the draft having 2 types of players, (ends and tackles) makes more sense than having 3 types (nose, ends, and olb)

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1090485][B]The most immediate concern with Murphy is coverage.[/B] Romo and his Frankenstein TE will eat us alive this week.

Murphy didn't cover in college and his first match up is against a dude that makes veterans look bad.[/quote]

He can't be any worse than Orakpo in coverage. Orakpo is no Monte Coleman.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1090584]5-2 a top the NFC North, allowing the seconds fewest point in the NFL with some crappy DB's, meaning the DLinemen are doing an awesome job. Oh yeah, no Calvin Johnson and Reggie Bush.[/quote]

That is not a Superbowl team.
Suh doesn't make them a Superbowl team.
Suh doesn't make us a Superbowl team.
Suh hardly makes us a better team.
The goal is to get better.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

fuck suh

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

Suh is used to playing an attacking three technique. He might not take kindly to, or be particularly good at, being on the nose instead.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

Hope so. What a waste. If he wasnt creating pressure he was injured. Ugghh.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Lotus;1090639]Suh is used to playing an attacking three technique. He might not take kindly to, or be particularly good at, being on the nose instead.[/quote]

We've seen how that ends.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=Chico23231;1090631]fuck suh[/quote]I dated a Korean gal named Fuk Suh.

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

[quote=counter-tre;1090664]i dated a korean gal named fuk suh.[/quote]


lmao

Re: Is Brian Orakpo career as a Redskin possibly over
 

Isnt that the same as grilled cocker spaniel and teriyaki sauce?