Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;962937]Shanny should NOT be fired. Lets throw out the 1st year. In my opinion that was a year to see if we could compete with the roster we had, and obviously that didn't happen.[/QUOTE]

You can't just toss out a season like it never existed. Last week in the Monday "Evaluation part deux" presser, Shanny said he knew when he took the job the team was old and needed to get younger which they started in year 1. That comment was a head scratcher because he traded and signed older players like Galloway,Mcnabb, Johnson,Parker ,and (insert name). Actions said he thought he could win AND rebuild simultaneously.


[QUOTE] I believe it takes 3 years to turn a roster over from free agents to draft picks in order to show progress. Our roster was over aged, and over paid. Now we have young players at key positions that can help us for years to come.[/QUOTE]

We are in year 3 and do have some nice young talent but not nearly enough.

[QUOTE] I dont think Haslett should be fired either. They are playing without 4/5 starters, two in the safety spot. THat is huge. I am surprised we didn't/haven't taken a look at Route to be honest.[/QUOTE]

I'm usually not a fan of letting coaches go mid season but Haslett needs to go asap. This team had Haz/player issues carryover from 2011 into 2012 and a player or two are not even on speaking terms with the coach. Some veterans have become increasing frustrated with how he leads the defense. I spoke to a few veterans who have taken issue with the most recent Haslett quote...

"I come to work, I work hard, I do the best I can with what we got and try to put these guys in position to win games and be successful on defense,” “That’s all really I can do.”

Honest or not some of the guys have taken it as Haz blaming them and taking no accountability in the issues. Players have routinely told the media not to blame the scheme or the coach it was on the players to make plays. Guys that have issues with Haslett still went to bat for him with a mic in their face. Defensive lockeroom is fractured and now on gameday you are starting to see no intensity, no fire, no communication, and so on.. Those are all signs that you are losing the unit and getting ready to be fired.


[QUOTE]But Shanny is moving this team in the right direction and needs to be given the time to make it work.[/QUOTE]

I want to see "team going in right direction" but I don't see it at all. I see a team regressing in a year they are suppose to be progressing as a team. I see coaches getting fined for chassing & cussing out refs, Players cussing out refs, One of the most penalized teams in the league. Then tons of dropped balls, can't run the base Shanahan offense because of the LG & RTS play, coaches messing up in the media.

On defense I see the most passive 3-4 unit I think I have ever seen in the NFL. Drives me nuts that we have all 4-3 coaches, coaching a 3-4 defense filled with 4-3 personnel, with a Defensive coordinator that never wanted to run the 3-4 here.

And most of that is not even the tip of the ice berg.

Im not sure where I stand on Mike Shanahan yet.. Everything added up does not paint a picture of future success under his guidance unless changes are made.

Hasletts ticket for departure will come anytime after Thanksgiving. Kyle is not guaranteed to stay with the organization either. You could be looking at a new DC & OC entering year 4/5 and that to me is a mess. Year 4 is when you usually have to decide if you are going to extend a coach or enter the infamous last year of the contract with no extension aka " lame duck coach" .

So how would Shanahan improve the team with -18 million, little draft picks, new DC, new OC, possible new DL coach , and a lot of needs??

You are almost at the point that it might be better to cut bait from Mike and start the process again around RG3. I cant believe I said it but its how I feel. Shanny is not going to coach forever and he likely wont be here past 5 IF he makes it that long. so what are you losing?

Some will say you are losing a year of RG3s development..True but if Mike sucks it up in 2013 and is gone then you have wasted 2 years. The problem will just compound.

Maybe I would have a different view if I haven't heard from some folks at the park that they are not sold on Shanahan.. and these were not players.

Sorry fro the rant.. HTTR

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=HTTR247;962986] Shanny said he knew when he took the job the team was old and needed to get younger which they started in year 1. That comment was a head scratcher because he traded and signed older players like Galloway,Mcnabb, Johnson,Parker ,and (insert name). Actions said he thought he could win AND rebuild simultaneously.[/quote]

I concur. I was against the McNabb trade and on the fence with the Brown trade. It was pretty foolish. I knew McNabb was overrated and what talent he did have was gone. If you take back those picks we gave up, we could potentially have 3 starters (or depth) out of it.

I do give Mike a pass on the Parker/Johnson/Galloway signing though. Remember, it was the uncapped year with teams using tenders on all their restricted FAs so we had nothing to really work with.



[quote=HTTR247;962986]I'm usually not a fan of letting coaches go mid season but Haslett needs to go asap. This team had Haz/player issues carryover from 2011 into 2012 and a player or two are not even on speaking terms with the coach.[/quote]

At first I was for waiting till the end of the season, but after it was apparent the defensive squad had stopped responding to this man, I wanted him out during this bye week. The team that played against Atlanta isn't the same team that played against the Steelers and Panthers. It was very apparent. I still think Mike's biggest downfall could very well be his selection of a DC to run this defense. I realize Jim was option #2, but surely there were other people more qualified than Jim. He had a year to figure this out.


[quote=HTTR247;962986] I see a team regressing in a year they are suppose to be progressing as a team. I see coaches getting fined for chassing & cussing out refs, Players cussing out refs, One of the most penalized teams in the league. Then tons of dropped balls, can't run the base Shanahan offense because of the LG & RTS play, coaches messing up in the media. [/quote]

Ruhskin and a couple others talked about the penalties the other week and mentioned how it's a clear sign of a undisciplined team or lack of leadership. This falls on Mike. Plain and simple. Mike should have suspended Kyle and Dhall for their parts. After the Morgan bit, he should have dropped the hammer that anymore would result in sitting for a game. He didn't and it's continued.


[quote=HTTR247;962986] Im not sure where I stand on Mike Shanahan yet.. Everything added up does not paint a picture of future success under his guidance unless changes are made. [/quote]

I think Mike's ego is getting in the way of some of this. Instead of just correcting the mistake like he did with McNabb, he's going to let this defense thing fester until it's too late.

I personally think he will not succeed here, but he will have a good base built for the next guy to come and get all the credit for turning around. I hope I'm wrong.




[quote=HTTR247;962986] So how would Shanahan improve the team with -18 million, little draft picks, new DC, new OC, possible new DL coach , and a lot of needs??[/quote]

He'll definitely be swimming uphill. Said the other day that I'm not even sure why he took this job knowing it was in the shape it was. Vinny's stench is still haunting this team via capgate. Mike is basically going to have to hit homeruns on all the draft picks this upcoming off-season. He also didn't do himself any favors with the poor FA moves/trades. (McNabb/Brown/Jackson/Meriweather/Morgan)




[quote=HTTR247;962986] Sorry fro the rant.. HTTR[/quote]


By all means, rant.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Fire Mike Shanahan. Promote Kyle. That would be my dream scenario. Since we probably can't keep Kyle if we fire his dad, hire Gruden as HC but don't give him final say over personnel.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=InsaneBoost;962983]Shanahan is lucky RGIII is here, even though he (RGIII) feels that they (Shanahan's) don't trust him. Players already said **** Shanahan, but keep playing cause RGIII won't quit. Without RGIII, this would be BAD right now.

Dan won't fire Shanny though.[/quote]

I love wherr people get this kind of intel. Its like they are in the locker room.


Once upon a time......Shanahan was asked to coach and take over a glorious franchise in which he was offered all of king midus gold just to turn it around. In which he did, and all the people rejoiced right before they all died of small pocs. Them Shanahan had tea with his leader and they spoke of the glory days.

You know what? It is fun making up stories

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Bucket;962998]I love wherr people get this kind of intel. Its like they are in the locker room.


You know what? It is fun making up stories[/quote]

I generally agree with you on these types of things, but this one happens to be true.

Let's just finish a season without any drama for once... Oh wait the redskins can't do that.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Bucket;962998]You know what? It is fun making up stories[/quote]

That it is. Especially with has-been coaches.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=InsaneBoost;963005]That it is. Especially with has-been coaches.[/quote]

You have someone to take his place? Bring in 3-4 more O-line to change the scheme with, and so fourth? Let's here it.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Unfortunately no because Shanahan had to play with fire and get a huge cap hit. That's why next season will be no different than this year. AKA. Can his ass now. Get someone in here to put their scheme together, and go from there.

A big help for the 3-4 would stop bringing in 4-3 players to play a position they have no business in. Oh how much common sense would fix a fair amount of our problems. That's too easy for Shanahan though because he has to let his pride get in the way.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=InsaneBoost;963007]Unfortunately no because Shanahan had to play with fire and get a huge cap hit. That's why next season will be no different than this year. AKA. Can his ass now. Get someone in here to put their scheme together, and go from there.

A big help for the 3-4 would stop bringing in 4-3 players to play a position they have no business in. Oh how much common sense would fix a fair amount of our problems. That's too easy for Shanahan though because he has to let his pride get in the way.[/quote]

Wait.. So you're saying it's Shanahan's fault we took a big cap hit, and that we should bring someone else in because he should of known better?

What players were brought in that can't handle the 3-4 at the moment? I'm just wondering if you actually believe what you are saying or even know what you are saying or maybe you're just shooting fireballs out of your ass.

You shouldn't listen to all the hear say and believe it. Shanahan needs to improve to stay here, but he's doing no worse if not better then what the Redskins are use to in the past 2 decades. Is that to say it's acceptable? No, it isn't but the players are young and I think it's to early to say.. Well, they are not going to mesh or do well.

This is what a revamped roster in two years of off season building looks like. I just think it's unfair to throw stones at a guy who came in on day one and said it would take 5 years to turn things around. He's in 2.5 at the moment..

Of course this is Washington and the Colts are 6-3, so we should be too. Right?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

He has full control doesn't he? Then yes, he's the reason. He has the final say and didn't stop anyone. Whether there's collusion involved or something more, the truth of the matter is, something was said and only us and a few others decided to test things.

Bowen and Cofield are two players who have no business being in the 3-4 IMO. I'm not even sure that they belong as backups. Ryan Kerrigan for the most part hasn't been all that impressive, nor has Jenkins who some argued could be a starter.

In the past 20 years, the Washington Redskins have been worse than 6-10 (Shanahan's best record) six times (one of which has happened under Shanahan, 5-11). Shanahan, if he's lucky, will end up 4-12 which will be one win better than the worst of 3-13, but that's not to say Shanahan can't go 3-13 this season.

I'll give him the first two years as they were the major parts of a rebuild, but for a man who claimed QB was really the last major missing piece, that sure has changed drastically. Yes injuries don't help, but you build with quality depth, something the Redskins lack in all compartments.

Hopefully the rookies can come through, but let's be honest, they need time to groom, they can't be thrown into the mix day one and expect to perform.

Not to mention using your teams strengths. Seems like they still fail to realize they need the offense to score in order to win. This is an offense who even without Garcon and Davis can put up at least 30+, yet the play calling keeps holding them back.

Should we be 6-3, I don't know, but we shouldn't be worse than teams like Minnesota, Tampa Bay and Indianapolis who are in their first and second year of rebuilds, meanwhile we should be just about finished with ours.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;963001]Let's just finish a season without any drama for once... Oh wait the redskins can't do that.[/quote]

This is hard to do when you have seven starters out for the year with injuries. This is also hard to do when your secondary can't stop anyone in the NFL from attaining long gains through the air. This is also hard to do when your head coach insists perpetually that this team is better when it isn't. This is also hard to do when the offense keeps producing enough points to win games but yet your defense can't stop the opposing offense and ends up giving games away time and time again after the offense puts you in position for a win. This hard to do when the Redskins fans know in their hearts that the Redskins are just as good as any other NFL team but fails to show it. This is hard to do when you know the Redskins should be in the division lead and they're not.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Pains me to say it, but Tripp probably had a good point earlier in this thread. Either you move on from Shanahan now or you commit to him for more than the two years he's got remaining (and perhaps Kyle as well)

Because what's the point then of Mike publicly stating it's a 3 year process for Griff when he'll only be here 2 more years himself?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;963021]Pains me to say it, but Tripp probably had a good point earlier in this thread. Either you move on from Shanahan now or you commit to him for more than the two years he's got remaining (and perhaps Kyle as well)

[B][I]Because what's the point then of Mike publicly stating it's a 3 year process for Griff when he'll only be here 2 more years himself?[/[/I][/B]QUOTE]

Did he say that? That just sounds like a coach trying to buy himself more time to me

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=InsaneBoost;963005]That it is. Especially with has-been coaches.[/quote]

Oh no you didn't.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Bucket;963006]You have someone to take his place? Bring in 3-4 more O-line to change the scheme with, and so fourth? Let's here it.[/quote]

I think this argument is the weakest, yet its one people keep repeating. Keeping a bad coach just for continuity's sake will only set the team back farther than it already is, especially with the uber questionable moves Mike has made, ( and could still make) and not worked out.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=htownskinfan;963022][QUOTE=SmootSmack;963021]Pains me to say it, but Tripp probably had a good point earlier in this thread. Either you move on from Shanahan now or you commit to him for more than the two years he's got remaining (and perhaps Kyle as well)

[B][I]Because what's the point then of Mike publicly stating it's a 3 year process for Griff when he'll only be here 2 more years himself?[/[/I][/B]QUOTE]

Did he say that? That just sounds like a coach trying to buy himself more time to me[/quote]

Everything Mike Shanahan has said here, no matter what it is, seems to be the wrong frikkin thing. The Haynesworth situation (not that the wrong move was made, just that the way it was handled left A TON to be desired), the mcnabb conditioning crap, the way he manages clock during the game (even worse than gibbs, never thought Id ever say that, the way he is handling adversity this year.........this guy is an egomaniac, it seems the players know it, and aren't too impressed with the product and squad that he himself has created.

Its a shame its going to take 2 years away from RG3 with this regime for everyone to understand Mike Shanahan is an old has been coach who hasn't won squat in 14 years after Elway. It sucks to be a Redskin fan right now, and it sucks even more knowing you might have one of the most talented kids ever to play QB wasting time with an old has been coach and his son.

The only real optimism the skins and their fans have is knowing that RG3 is here, and will always be here. I'm just looking forward to the day in which he can start digging the franchise out of this mess. Right now, as it seems, the hole is getting deeper. Watch the eagles come out and spank us like red headed step children. I have a bad feeling we might not even get to 6 wins this year.

For a team to not be able to match the win total they had the year prior with John Beck and Rex Grossman, having one of the top talents at QB on your team, that tells me this team is NOT moving forward, and RG3's and ALmo's efforts are just enough to keep this team from really dropping off the cliff.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=InsaneBoost;963007]Unfortunately no because Shanahan had to play with fire and get a huge cap hit. That's why next season will be no different than this year. AKA. Can his ass now. Get someone in here to put their scheme together, and go from there.[/quote]

Don't blame Shanny for Vinny's mess. He was only cleaning up his garbage. Had he not done what he did, our cap would have been ****ed.


Also, I thought you were done with the Redskins?

[B]
InsaneBoost ‏@InsaneBoost
Just sold my tickets and parking to #Eagles fans. Hope they piss off the entire section while the Redskins get murdered.


InsaneBoost InsaneBoost ‏@InsaneBoost
@NC_Skins23 I'm not anymore. Making the most of my money back and burning my box of Redskins "memorabilia."[/B]

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

edit: retracted. Smoot found the quote and link below.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Here's what I'm referring to

[QUOTE]What we've done over time is develop to where we're only doing things Robert is comfortable with," Shanahan said. "He's a rookie. You have to do that. So we put the offense in over the first two weeks of OTAs, and the first two weeks of camp, and we saw what he was comfortable with. [B]Over a time frame of about three years, we'll put everything in, and he'll really be able to branch out. [/B]But initially, we're gonna do what he does well."[/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000078914/article/robert-griffin-iii-mike-shanahan-cook-up-everevolving-offense]Robert Griffin III, Mike Shanahan cook up ever-evolving offense - NFL.com[/url] (Oct. 9, 2012)

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=InsaneBoost;963010]He has full control doesn't he? Then yes, he's the reason. He has the final say and didn't stop anyone. Whether there's collusion involved or something more, the truth of the matter is, something was said and only us and a few others decided to test things.

[B]Bowen and Cofield are two players who have no business being in the 3-4 IMO[/B]. I'm not even sure that they belong as backups. Ryan Kerrigan for the most part hasn't been all that impressive, nor has Jenkins who some argued could be a starter.

In the past 20 years, the Washington Redskins have been worse than 6-10 (Shanahan's best record) six times (one of which has happened under Shanahan, 5-11). Shanahan, if he's lucky, will end up 4-12 which will be one win better than the worst of 3-13, but that's not to say Shanahan can't go 3-13 this season.

I'll give him the first two years as they were the major parts of a rebuild, but for a man who claimed QB was really the last major missing piece, that sure has changed drastically. Yes injuries don't help, but you build with quality depth, something the Redskins lack in all compartments.

Hopefully the rookies can come through, but let's be honest, they need time to groom, they can't be thrown into the mix day one and expect to perform.

Not to mention using your teams strengths. Seems like they still fail to realize they need the offense to score in order to win. This is an offense who even without Garcon and Davis can put up at least 30+, yet the play calling keeps holding them back.

Should we be 6-3, I don't know, but we shouldn't be worse than teams like Minnesota, Tampa Bay and Indianapolis who are in their first and second year of rebuilds, meanwhile we should be just about finished with ours.[/quote]

Bowen played in a 3-4 in Dallas before coming here. C'mon man.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;963032]Here's what I'm referring to



[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000078914/article/robert-griffin-iii-mike-shanahan-cook-up-everevolving-offense]Robert Griffin III, Mike Shanahan cook up ever-evolving offense - NFL.com[/url] (Oct. 9, 2012)[/quote]


That's crazy talk. While I think you shouldn't necessarily overwhelm them, he should be going at RGIII's pace. If he's absorbing it, then give him more. No sense of putting on cuffs if it's not needed.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=InsaneBoost;963010]Bowen and Cofield are two players who have no business being in the 3-4 IMO. I'm not even sure that they belong as backups. Ryan Kerrigan for the most part hasn't been all that impressive, nor has Jenkins who some argued could be a starter.[/quote]


[quote=Mattyk;963034]Bowen played in a 3-4 in Dallas before coming here. C'mon man.[/quote]

Thank you Matty for point out his error. Bowen has played well for us. Cofield is definitely out of place, but still doing a hell of a job allowing LBs to make the tackles.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;963034]Bowen played in a 3-4 in Dallas before coming here. C'mon man.[/quote]

He was not a starter during his tenure there, and if he was, I believe it was because he was a depth guy.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;963038]He was not a starter during his tenure there, and if he was, I believe it was because he was a depth guy.[/quote]

He was in the process of taking Marcus Spears job because he was playing better than he was. The only reason the Cowboys didn't resign him is due to salary cap issues.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;963030]Don't blame Shanny for Vinny's mess. He was only cleaning up his garbage. Had he not done what he did, our cap would have been ****ed.[/quote]You do see the logical flaw in arguing that Shanahan/Allen acted in 2010 the way they did because they had no choice, and then not holding them accountable for the cap penalty, right?

Even if you believe that the NFL jumped its authority with the cap penalty, as I do, you still can't put it on anyone but the current regime. This could/would have been a past issue in 2010 if left to organic means.

Vinny's influence on the 2011 Redskins was less than 1/2 a percent. At this point, he's a completely negligible character in the teams current situation.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Wade Phillips doesn't really run a three four. He runs something much closer to a 4-3 where the linebackers (instead of the DEs) have rush/contain responsibility.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

They aren't a straight 3-4 in Dallas lol. They're hybrid, and the Cowboys even laughed about re-signing him because they said he wasn't worth the money we gave him....looks like they were right.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Bowen is one of our more solid starters, really not sure why he's being called out.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;963045]Wade Phillips doesn't really run a three four. He runs something much closer to a 4-3 where the linebackers (instead of the DEs) have rush/contain responsibility.[/quote]

I heard someone on ESPN say that Wade runs a 3-4 which is closer to the 5-2 defense because its a surprise when the ends (OLBs in this case) aren't rushing the QB.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;963055]Bowen is one of our more solid starters, really not sure why he's being called out.[/QUOTE]

He's been our best front 7 player. If anything call out kerrigan he's been invisible

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

LOL Bowen isn't good at all.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;963034]Bowen played in a 3-4 in Dallas before coming here. C'mon man.[/quote]

Doesn't mean he's good at it..... lol
jk i like Bowen personally

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Had heard this around this same point of the season last year but, the end is near:

@JayGlazer on @FOXSports just reported that Dan Snyder was not happy with Mike Shanahan's comments last Sunday. FWIW. #Redskins

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;963061]Had heard this around this same point of the season last year but, the end is near:

@JayGlazer on @FOXSports just reported that Dan Snyder was not happy with Mike Shanahan's comments last Sunday. FWIW. #Redskins[/QUOTE]

These next 7 games will be very interesting

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

No body was happy with them. Probably not even Mike himself

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=InsaneBoost;963051]They aren't a straight 3-4 in Dallas lol. They're hybrid, and the Cowboys even laughed about re-signing him because they said he wasn't worth the money we gave him....looks like they were right.[/quote]

Have you lost your mind? Dude had 41 tackles and 6 sacks last year.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;963063]No body was happy with them. Probably not even Mike himself[/quote]


Yeah, but the fact the very next day he blamed the media for twisting what he said was just as pathetic. Got on Mike Wise's case about it. Instead of just saying.........Hey, I ****ed up and I apologize to my team".....he then makes the situation worse.

Being a arrogant egomanic only works when you are winning.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;963065]Being a arrogant egomanic only works when you are winning.[/quote]Said something really similar to this at the end of the 2010 season.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;963055]Bowen is one of our more solid starters, really not sure why he's being called out.[/quote]

Easily our best D-Line this year. Not close. Sux the effect a poor secondary has on the entire defense.

While talking about DLine, dont be surprised if we bring in another 3-4 D coordinator and he decides to go with a more traditional Nose Tackle tackle and replaces Coefield. Coefield hasnt been bad, just saying