Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;963203]This thread has gone on longer than 3 gameday threads.....why do you all continue to beat a dead horse?

[B]You all would rather talk about Shanahan sucking or he should be fired, but not about the positives or other threads on this board[/B]. I feel like I'm dealing with a lot of these people when I come to this board...

[YT]MT0-OL_71yU[/YT][/quote]

I think we all want to discuss the things it would take for us to get better and that means talking about what problems we have that need fixing.

You dont have to worry about fixing the postive things to get better......, That is, of course, unless its your defense. And your defensive personal and scheme happen to be the strength of your team and you want to change it because, um... well, i guess because it was just as pressing as..... or because an overhall was needed since.... Wait why did Mike make the change again?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=redskin29633;963217]In the current digital issue of [B][I]Pro Football Weekly[/I][/B], they ran a short feature article on Shanahan and the Redskins' problems. The article states that had Shanahan known how bad his other 52 players were, he would not have made the deal for RGIII. PFW intimates that Shanahan did not expect that the Redskins draft picks (relinquished for Griffin) would be such quality picks. Had he known, the story contends, Shanahan would have never made the deal with St. Louis. Shanahan made the trade with St. Louis believing that his Redskins would be a contender right now![/quote]

If Shanahan said this or anything like it publicly Snyder needs to fire him immediately, as a matter of principle.

Is there a link to the story?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Ill say this. When we hired MS I knew that with the fact that no Super Bowl coaches have won Super Bowls with other teams, that that was unlikely to happen here. I figured that MS was more so a hiring to get our team in the right direction, and hand it over to someone else when he would retire (like his son Kyle for example). The problem is this team hasn't progressed, in most ways it's regressed.

[QUOTE=The Goat;963309]If Shanahan said this or anything like it publicly Snyder needs to fire him immediately, as a matter of principle.

Is there a link to the story?[/QUOTE]

Wow if true I agree he needs to be gone.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

You guys really think he said that? It's an opinion from PFW

[QUOTE]Redskins head coach Mike Shanahan said after a 21-13 home loss to the previously 1-6 Panthers that he would begin evaluat- ing which players would be part of the picture in 2013. Where Shanahan failed previously was not properly doing so this year.
Shanahan thought he had a playoff-caliber roster, and what holes there were could be caulked by the dynamic talents of pre- cocious rookie QB Robert Griffin III. Shanahan was right about Griffin — the kid is good — but wrong about the other 52 guys.
Why else would he gamble and give up so much (first-round picks gone the next two seasons), even for as rare a talent as RG3? If you had told Shanahan that the picks he would give up would be top-10s, I guarantee he would have hesitated.
As executive VP, this falls on Shanahan. Sure, he unearthed a nice fit for his zone scheme (sixth-round RB Alfred Morris) and the team has lost four starters to injury, but that also reflects on the depth of the bottom half of the roster — there is next to none.
When Shanahan was dusting the NFL in the 1990s with his offense, he could get away with undersized linemen because he had whiz OL coaches like Bobb McKittrick and Alex Gibbs, star receivers such as Jerry Rice, Rod Smith and Shannon Sharpe and Hall of Fame QBs in Steve Young and John Elway.
Griffin is great, but even he can’t compensate for this mess on his own. Years of bad personnel moves, some under Shanahan’s watch, have left the Redskins’ till mostly bare. — Eric Edholm[/QUOTE]

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;963321]You guys really think he said that? It's an opinion from PFW[/quote]

You must feed the savages their blood man lol.

I dont think the team has regressed.. I think its currently plagued woth injuries and any team would be struggling with the same amount of them.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Don't discourage a good witch hunt. Hatters gonna hatt every chance they get legit reason or not.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I'm not sure Shanny would have used the picks wisely even if he had them back. I was one of those guys who kept wanting to build the o-line and getting a pass rushing DE who could actually pressure the QB and have to be accounted for. At one point I thought we could trade down..get an extra pick and get Aldon Smith. But I in no way regret trading up for RG3. It was always about getting a FQB with a lot of posters. Well I'm glad we waited for this one. Couldn't be happier about that. But we obviously didn't do much for the rest of the team before we got him. Trades for Jason Taylor and McNabb still make me sick every time I think about it. And as much as I respect Joe Gibbs.....giving up a third rounder for a RB we neither needed or even played for us..well....we've made plenty of stupid moves with draft choices.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[IMG]http://cdn.head-fi.org/0/01/015c657f_torchmob.jpeg[/IMG]


Man your stations!! We got us a witch to burn!!!

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Wasted picks for McNabb, Jason Taylor. Also lets not forget about the wasted draft picks on Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly. Just imagine how solid we'd be if we'd drafted wisely and used those 3 2nd round picks and that 3rd rounder on the team instead of trading them away from nothing.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;963317]Ill say this. When we hired MS I knew that with the fact that no Super Bowl coaches have won Super Bowls with other teams, that that was unlikely to happen here. I figured that MS was more so a hiring to get our team in the right direction, and hand it over to someone else when he would retire (like his son Kyle for example). The problem is this team hasn't progressed, in most ways it's regressed.[/quote]

There's a 1st time for every thing. Don't know how far into the future it will happen, but one day a NFL head coach will win Super Bowls with two different teams.

I'm stunned -stunned- that shanahan made the exact same mistake three years in a row.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;963340]There's a 1st time for every thing. Don't know how far into the future it will happen, but one day a NFL head coach will win Super Bowls with two different teams.[/quote]

Heck Holmgren almost did it with Sea. If the refs hadn't blown some calls (which the NFL apoligized for) he could've broken that trend.

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;963370]I'm stunned -stunned- that shanahan made the exact same mistake three years in a row.[/QUOTE]

Which one?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;963321]You guys really think he said that? It's an opinion from PFW[/quote]

I didn't read a quote in there, so pretty doubtful it's anything more than the author's opinion. The criticism of personnel decisions is spot on though because personnel and scheme decisions are directly linked.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;962987]I concur. I was against the McNabb trade and on the fence with the Brown trade. It was pretty foolish. I knew McNabb was overrated and what talent he did have was gone. If you take back those picks we gave up, we could potentially have 3 starters (or depth) out of it.

I do give Mike a pass on the Parker/Johnson/Galloway signing though. Remember, it was the uncapped year with teams using tenders on all their restricted FAs so we had nothing to really work with.





At first I was for waiting till the end of the season, but after it was apparent the defensive squad had stopped responding to this man, I wanted him out during this bye week. The team that played against Atlanta isn't the same team that played against the Steelers and Panthers. It was very apparent. I still think Mike's biggest downfall could very well be his selection of a DC to run this defense. I realize Jim was option #2, but surely there were other people more qualified than Jim. He had a year to figure this out.




Ruhskin and a couple others talked about the penalties the other week and mentioned how it's a clear sign of a undisciplined team or lack of leadership. This falls on Mike. Plain and simple. Mike should have suspended Kyle and Dhall for their parts. After the Morgan bit, he should have dropped the hammer that anymore would result in sitting for a game. He didn't and it's continued.




I think Mike's ego is getting in the way of some of this. Instead of just correcting the mistake like he did with McNabb, he's going to let this defense thing fester until it's too late.

I personally think he will not succeed here, but he will have a good base built for the next guy to come and get all the credit for turning around. I hope I'm wrong.






He'll definitely be swimming uphill. Said the other day that I'm not even sure why he took this job knowing it was in the shape it was. Vinny's stench is still haunting this team via capgate. Mike is basically going to have to hit homeruns on all the draft picks this upcoming off-season. He also didn't do himself any favors with the poor FA moves/trades. (McNabb/Brown/Jackson/Meriweather/Morgan)







By all means, rant.[/QUOTE]

So NC - me gtripp goat and mechanix are fools for doubting Shanny but HTTR 24-7 is spot on?
Im confused.
Edit: not sure how u can agree with everything that HTTR 24-7 has said but than say he will leave a solid foundation for the next guy. Suddenly you say he will not succeed here - yet every post you have made says that he is succeeding here - you have said repeatedly he is on the rite track - did u mean the rite track to failure?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

highway to hell

[QUOTE=Bucket;963189]Yeah.. Griffin would of already broken every record in the NFL, and thrown for 20 touchdowns if it wasn't for Shanahan[/QUOTE]

He wasnt being sarcastic. He is referring to inside info that we already had.

[QUOTE=los panda;963541]highway to hell[/QUOTE]

The road to nowhere.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=HTTR247;962986]You can't just toss out a season like it never existed. Last week in the Monday "Evaluation part deux" presser, Shanny said he knew when he took the job the team was old and needed to get younger which they started in year 1. That comment was a head scratcher because he traded and signed older players like Galloway,Mcnabb, Johnson,Parker ,and (insert name). Actions said he thought he could win AND rebuild simultaneously.




We are in year 3 and do have some nice young talent but not nearly enough.



I'm usually not a fan of letting coaches go mid season but Haslett needs to go asap. This team had Haz/player issues carryover from 2011 into 2012 and a player or two are not even on speaking terms with the coach. Some veterans have become increasing frustrated with how he leads the defense. I spoke to a few veterans who have taken issue with the most recent Haslett quote...

"I come to work, I work hard, I do the best I can with what we got and try to put these guys in position to win games and be successful on defense,” “That’s all really I can do.”

Honest or not some of the guys have taken it as Haz blaming them and taking no accountability in the issues. Players have routinely told the media not to blame the scheme or the coach it was on the players to make plays. Guys that have issues with Haslett still went to bat for him with a mic in their face. Defensive lockeroom is fractured and now on gameday you are starting to see no intensity, no fire, no communication, and so on.. Those are all signs that you are losing the unit and getting ready to be fired.




I want to see "team going in right direction" but I don't see it at all. I see a team regressing in a year they are suppose to be progressing as a team. I see coaches getting fined for chassing & cussing out refs, Players cussing out refs, One of the most penalized teams in the league. Then tons of dropped balls, can't run the base Shanahan offense because of the LG & RTS play, coaches messing up in the media.

On defense I see the most passive 3-4 unit I think I have ever seen in the NFL. Drives me nuts that we have all 4-3 coaches, coaching a 3-4 defense filled with 4-3 personnel, with a Defensive coordinator that never wanted to run the 3-4 here.

And most of that is not even the tip of the ice berg.

Im not sure where I stand on Mike Shanahan yet.. Everything added up does not paint a picture of future success under his guidance unless changes are made.

Hasletts ticket for departure will come anytime after Thanksgiving. Kyle is not guaranteed to stay with the organization either. You could be looking at a new DC & OC entering year 4/5 and that to me is a mess. Year 4 is when you usually have to decide if you are going to extend a coach or enter the infamous last year of the contract with no extension aka " lame duck coach" .

So how would Shanahan improve the team with -18 million, little draft picks, new DC, new OC, possible new DL coach , and a lot of needs??

You are almost at the point that it might be better to cut bait from Mike and start the process again around RG3. I cant believe I said it but its how I feel. Shanny is not going to coach forever and he likely wont be here past 5 IF he makes it that long. so what are you losing?

Some will say you are losing a year of RG3s development..True but if Mike sucks it up in 2013 and is gone then you have wasted 2 years. The problem will just compound.

Maybe I would have a different view if I haven't heard from some folks at the park that they are not sold on Shanahan.. and these were not players.

Sorry fro the rant.. HTTR[/quote]

Me, Gtripp, goat and Mechanix have uttered these same things - especially about cutting RG-3's lost years at one instead of letting Shanny waste 3 of his years - and we literally get laughed at. All I hear is Shanny is on the right track - over, and over, and over.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;963555]Me, Gtripp, goat and Mechanix have uttered these same things - especially about cutting RG-3's lost years at one instead of letting Shanny waste 3 of his years - and we literally get laughed at. All I hear is Shanny is on the right track - over, and over, and over.[/quote]

Scroll to the 2:15 mark

[YT]QrRUXsDumrM[/YT]

It's in the presentation

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;963545]The road to nowhere.[/quote]

stairway to heaven :argue:

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[IMG]http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3871/fmdaves2.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;963563]Scroll to the 2:15 mark

[YT]QrRUXsDumrM[/YT]

It's in the presentation[/quote]

lmao - cant believe you had an obscure cosby show scene on hand for that.

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that if one of us had posted [I]exactly[/I] what HTTR 24-7 had (because I believe we have), that NC skins reply would not have been "please rant" and "i agree" - not by a mile.

There is now someone who is alittle more respected as an "in the know" guy (and for good reason), than us "haters" and he is bringing some credibility to what we have been saying. Bottom line is we have been saying the same thing.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;963539]So NC - me gtripp goat and mechanix are fools for doubting Shanny but HTTR 24-7 is spot on?
Im confused.
Edit: not sure how u can agree with everything that HTTR 24-7 has said but than say he will leave a solid foundation for the next guy. Suddenly you say he will not succeed here - yet every post you have made says that he is succeeding here - you have said repeatedly he is on the rite track - did u mean the rite track to failure?[/quote]


You see what you want to see. I've pointed out quite a few mistakes that Mike has made, yet they go unnoticed to you. Disagree with a point you Shanny haters make and all of a sudden you are a apologist.

I don't think he'll end up succeeding here because I believe his hole was too deep to start with, not because he's a has been or incapable. Couple that with some of mistakes (Haslett/McNabb/Brown) he made at the beginning and it may very well end up doing him in. That said, I'm not wanting him fired.


The difference between me and you guys is, you expect a complete turnaround within 3 years or fire the guy. It's the same mentality that Dan Snyder has, and the same mentality that has caused this franchise to be abysmal the past decade. None of you have still showed me where a person has taken a team as dreadful as ours, and turned it into a consistent contender. Key word here is consistent. I don't want one year of 11-5. I want 10+ wins on a consistent basis, with 10 being a "down" year.

You don't correct 15+ years of horrible mismanagement in 2-1/2 years. You also can't compare us to other people. Each situation is different, and what works for one franchise, may not work for us.

Also, you fail to take into consideration a multitude of factors.

1) Restricted free agency his first year here. Nobody worth a damn on market

2) Lockout. Shortened FA period coupled with a 36 million cap hit hours before FA starts.

3) Injuries to key players and starters. (not backups or scrubs)

4) Inherited one of the oldest teams in the NFL with absolutely NO depth or no youth.


That is what I call a decked stacked against you. Sure, you think some brilliant guy could have came in and done this with all this against him, but why do you think Gruden and many other coaches said no to us? Because it was a god awful situation and they KNEW they wouldn't be able to turn it around before fans like yourself started calling for their head. I'm still shocked Mike agreed to coach this garbage pale that Vinny and Gibbs left him.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;963577]You see what you want to see. I've pointed out quite a few mistakes that Mike has made, yet they go unnoticed to you. [B]Disagree with a point you Shanny haters make and all of a sudden you are a apologist.[/B]I don't think he'll end up succeeding here because I believe his hole was too deep to start with, not because he's a has been or incapable. Couple that with some of mistakes (Haslett/McNabb/Brown) he made at the beginning and it may very well end up doing him in. That said, I'm not wanting him fired.


[B]The difference between me and you guys is, you expect a complete turnaround within 3 years or fire the guy.[/B] It's the same mentality that Dan Snyder has, and the same mentality that has caused this franchise to be abysmal the past decade. None of you have still showed me where a person has taken a team as dreadful as ours, and turned it into a consistent contender. Key word here is consistent. I don't want one year of 11-5. I want 10+ wins on a consistent basis, with 10 being a "down" year.

You don't correct 15+ years of horrible mismanagement in 2-1/2 years. You also can't compare us to other people. Each situation is different, and what works for one franchise, may not work for us.

Also, you fail to take into consideration a multitude of factors.

1) Restricted free agency his first year here. Nobody worth a damn on market

2) Lockout. Shortened FA period coupled with a 36 million cap hit hours before FA starts.

3) Injuries to key players and starters. (not backups or scrubs)

4) Inherited one of the oldest teams in the NFL with absolutely NO depth or no youth.


That is what I call a decked stacked against you. Sure, you think some brilliant guy could have came in and done this with all this against him, but why do you think Gruden and many other coaches said no to us? Because it was a god awful situation and they KNEW they wouldn't be able to turn it around before fans like yourself started calling for their head. I'm still shocked Mike agreed to coach this garbage pale that Vinny and Gibbs left him.[/quote]

Fair enough - I dont think any of us would argue that he inherited a shit show.
Funny how you are labeled a "hater" when you are displeased with the win total going down - nobody expected a complete turnaround, a superbowl, or deep playoff runs. We simple expected a better product than what we have at year three - and it sounds like you expected the same.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;963563]Scroll to the 2:15 mark

[YT]QrRUXsDumrM[/YT]

It's in the presentation[/quote]

You just love that reference don't you?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;963585]You just love that reference don't you?[/quote]

It's my go to. I have others but I think that one best captures why some posters here are better than others even if the message is the same

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=los panda;963566][img]http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3871/fmdaves2.jpg[/img][/quote]

this

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;963563]Scroll to the 2:15 mark

[YT]QrRUXsDumrM[/YT]

It's in the presentation[/quote]

More like timing there buddy boy. Some of us saw things clearly way earlier, that's all. It would have taken just one "authority" figure on TWP to stop the nonsensical defending of this regime, but you all chose to keep up the charade. Can't put that on anybody else.

To his credit Tripp saw it first, or at least said so first.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;963598]More like timing there buddy boy. Some of us saw things clearly way ealier, that's all.[/quote]

No, you were illogical with most of your rants about Shanahan. Negating his success in Denver to "Elway's doing", not crediting him with anything beyond drafting RGIII. You criticize the speed of a Garcon, yet thought he should have resigned Gaffney and brought in Plaxico Burress.

Most of your "things" you saw earlier still aren't correct and are invalid. Shanhan has made his mistakes, just not the ones you think he has.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;963601]No, you were illogical with most of your rants about Shanahan. Negating his success in Denver to "Elway's doing", not crediting him with anything beyond drafting RGIII. You criticize the speed of a Garcon, yet thought he should have resigned Gaffney and brought in Plaxico Burress.

Most of your "things" you saw earlier still aren't correct and are invalid. Shanhan has made his mistakes, just not the ones you think he has.[/quote]

Despite the success of the passing offense, I didn't agree with the decision to keep Aldrick Robinson over Anthony Armstrong. Very stupid choice. Armstrong was clearly the better wide receiver while Robinson has dropped many passes this year that Armstrong would have pulled in.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;963604]Despite the success of the passing offense, I didn't agree with the decision to keep Aldrick Robinson over Anthony Armstrong. Very stupid choice. Armstrong was clearly the better wide receiver while Robinson has dropped many passes this year that Armstrong would have pulled in.[/quote]


They fact that Armstrong hasn't stuck on a team yet validates Mike's move. I think he kept Robinson due to the upside as compared to AA. Also, it had been said a few times that AA was having troubles getting off the line cleanly.

I personally don't think it mattered that much which one of them he kept, they are both backups as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Haven't waded through all the pages, but anyone making an argument that Shanny is anything but a mediocre head coach, doesn't have the stats to back it up. Furthermore, outside of a handful of draft picks the team's talent level is very underwhelming. Outside of Kerrigan, who's been so so this season, and maybe Rak when he returns next season, there's not one single player this team can't live without.

I don't know if Shanny should be fired, but I'm very reluctant to say he's the coach of the future.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Well....he's available as the Jags cut him. Soooo apparently he did not impress them either.
[url=http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2012/11/12/3635358/jaguars-roster-moves-greg-jones-anthony-armstrong]Jaguars sign LB Greg Jones, cut WR Anthony Armstrong - Big Cat Country[/url]

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;963598]More like timing there buddy boy. Some of us saw things clearly way earlier, that's all. It would have taken just one "authority" figure on TWP to stop the nonsensical defending of this regime, but you all chose to keep up the charade. Can't put that on anybody else.

To his credit Tripp saw it first, or at least said so first.[/quote]

Buddy boy? You make some decent points in your posts. And then you come up with such idiocies as "Mike Shanahan had the benefit of playing in the easy AFC" followed by "Jeff Fisher is so awesome. He's been an amazing coach in the (suddenly powerful) AFC" or "Mike Shanahan is a has been who hasn't won in forever" followed by "I certainly wouldn't say no if Bill Cowher called"

That is why people say you hate just to hate.

You have this ridiculous assumption that the "authority" figures (I'm guessing you mean the mods) all agree on everything and I guess supress the voice of the "opposition" You couldn't be more wrong. You know's who long been an anti-Shanahan (particularly Kyle) guy. GMScud (not to drag you into this G) but that didn't stop me from suggesting he be our new moderator or the rest of the mods unanimously voting him in.

It's no wonder so many people have started ignoring you.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;963555]Me, Gtripp, goat and Mechanix have uttered these same things - especially about cutting RG-3's lost years at one instead of letting Shanny waste 3 of his years - and we literally get laughed at. All I hear is Shanny is on the right track - over, and over, and over.[/quote]


Just one more thing. Up until a week or so ago, LL (HTTR24/7) would have been laughing at you as well. He's been going at it with the other Shanny haters on the ES forums. The only reason he's saying this stuff now is due to some concerns being shared by players. So it's not like he's felt this way the whole time.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;963630]Just one more thing. Up until a week or so ago, LL (HTTR24/7) would have been laughing at you as well. He's been going at it with the other Shanny haters on the ES forums. The only reason he's saying this stuff now is due to some concerns being shared by players. So it's not like he's felt this way the whole time.[/QUOTE]

Guess we were rite about him sooner than. Its ok im not an "i told you so" guy. Cant speak for goat gtripp n mechanix on that one though.
Also i thought new poster httr 24-7 was not LL? Think they are two diff people. Could be wrong though. Thought i remember httr 24-7 referencing LL in one of his first posts the other nite. Or he was talking about himself in the third person which is fine too. Lol
Edit: not just concern by players, but brass too apparently.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;963636]Guess we were rite about him sooner than. Its ok im not an "i told you so" guy. Cant speak for goat gtripp n mechanix on that one though.
Also i thought new poster httr 24-7 was not LL? Think they are two diff people. Could be wrong though. Thought i remember httr 24-7 referencing LL in one of his first posts the other nite. Or he was talking about himself in the third person which is fine too. Lol[/quote]

We don't know anything yet. His time here isn't done.

The tweets I post on occasions is from LL (LavarLeap56 from Extremeskins). His user ID on here is HTTR24-7

[B] LL
@HTTR24_7 [/B]

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;963622]Buddy boy? You make some decent points in your posts. And then you come up with such idiocies as "Mike Shanahan had the benefit of playing in the easy AFC" followed by "Jeff Fisher is so awesome. He's been an amazing coach in the (suddenly powerful) AFC" or "Mike Shanahan is a has been who hasn't won in forever" followed by "I certainly wouldn't say no if Bill Cowher called"

That is why people say you hate just to hate.

You have this ridiculous assumption that the "authority" figures (I'm guessing you mean the mods) all agree on everything and I guess supress the voice of the "opposition" You couldn't be more wrong. You know's who long been an anti-Shanahan (particularly Kyle) guy. GMScud (not to drag you into this G) but that didn't stop me from suggesting he be our new moderator or the rest of the mods unanimously voting him in.

It's no wonder so many people have started ignoring you.[/quote]

Just don't try to make the "presentation" argument. I'm an unapologetic a$$hole and once it was obvious didn't hold back about calling this regime the joke it is, but there were plenty of folks around here offering perfectly polite analysis of how bad Mike and Co have been. Had nothing to do with lack of reasoned arguments, approach, etc. Had everything to do with the mods seemingly endless efforts to makes excuses for the regime and diminish the skeptics and their posts. Some of the skeptics just left the conversation, I didn't.

Again, trying to put it on presentation is just dishonest.

Edit: I think mods can forget how much their insertion of opinion, however inconsistent with reality, influences discussion etc etc. You have sycophants, toadies and bootlickers like NC who can't help themselves from agreeing with people of authority. That's an extreme case, but there's probably some reasonable, thoughtful Skins fans who just avoid discussion here because at times it's been more about rooting for a failed regime than a franchise.