Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;720172]Regardless of what Collins was actually changing at the line in his few plays this season, is there any reason to believe the protection was actually better when he was in? I mean, Collins looked great when he was in and his first read on a play came open -- he was accurate and could stick it in there -- but seemed to me that things broke down for sir scrappy just as quickly as they did for Campbell, and usually with more disastrous results.

If the point is Collins [I]seemed[/I] to the untrained eye to be more in charge before the snap than the starter, well, great. I don't care.[/quote]


Campbell never had a 4 game streak like Collins and we never would have had that 4 game streak with Campbell.

But thankfully, it doesn't matter. He is gone and we have a leader behind center, finally.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

From reading this thread i kinda get the feeling the people that hate Campbell really aren't very football savvy.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;720517]Campbell never had a 4 game streak like Collins and we never would have had that 4 game streak with Campbell.

But thankfully, it doesn't matter. He is gone and we have a leader behind center, finally.[/quote]I, for one, welcome our rent-a-leader overlords.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;720316]I would argue against this point. He consistently misread pre-snap coverages and when the first option was covered went straight to his checkdown ignoring the second/third reads. Nor did he "make a bunch of great throws under pressure". What was more prevalent on film was Campbell making decent throws if his first read was open or using his size and stregth to avoid a rush and make a dump-off play for solid yardage. Under pressure he often misfired, missed secondary options, or forced a pass into double/triple coverage or a bad spot in a zone.....actually he did this with no pressure too. [/quote]I'd say go deeper into the season, w/film instead of assuming that six or seven games make a season. Campbell looked a lot like 2008 Campbell for the first six weeks after the bye.

Of course, a lot of the bad habits you saw reappeared in the Week 15 and 16 games, so I guess you could say he was never "above" the influence of a poor offense, just feeding off weak pass defenses. Which supports the whole "Jason Campbell is a good quarterback on a level playing field" theory. That's all I'm saying.

Like I said a million times after the season, it doesn't matter who your quarterback is if you are worse than everyone you play. The story of the Bills game is that we were a completely better team at every level than them. That's far more important that the abstract concept of QB leadership, IMO.[quote]Are you saying that JC only made 2 or less bad plays (mis-reads of coverage, blitz protection, audibles, bad progressions, bad throws) and that his play was responsible for no more than one loss last year or am I misreading what you said?[/quote]Uh, no. I'm pretty sure I never said Campbell only made two bad plays.

Two a game, perhaps.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;720541]From reading this thread i kinda get the feeling the people that hate Campbell really aren't very football savvy.[/quote]

I would say the same thing about anyone who defends his results.

I think Jason is a great guy and hope he takes the Raiders to the Superbowl but I would bet my firstborn that it won't happen.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

JC at the end did show signs of improvement, but overall he was the same guy. You have to pull for him in Oakland or he is going to become just another journeyman backup like most ex Skins starting Qbs still in the league.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;720541]From reading this thread i kinda get the feeling the people that hate Campbell really aren't very football savvy.[/quote]

Because Campbell is a middle of the road QB, he is the perfect Rorschach test onto which people project what they want. The haters will see a glass half empty. The kool aid drinkers will see a glass half full. Reasonable people will see things in the middle.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;720565]I'd say go deeper into the season, w/film instead of assuming that six or seven games make a season. Campbell looked a lot like 2008 Campbell for the first six weeks after the bye.

Of course, a lot of the bad habits you saw reappeared in the Week 15 and 16 games, so I guess you could say he was never "above" the influence of a poor offense, just feeding off weak pass defenses. Which supports the whole "Jason Campbell is a good quarterback on a level playing field" theory. That's all I'm saying.

Like I said a million times after the season, it doesn't matter who your quarterback is if you are worse than everyone you play. The story of the Bills game is that we were a completely better team at every level than them. That's far more important that the abstract concept of QB leadership, IMO.Uh, no. I'm pretty sure I never said Campbell only made two bad plays.

Two a game, perhaps.[/quote]We'll just have to agree to disagree on JC's performance, and I did review the games throughout the year, just didn't have time to do the detailed write ups.

I meant 2 times per game, I know I wrote it incorrectly, sorry about that. I would argue the 2 times per game was not accurate and it was significantly more. But again, :bdh:


Anyway, time to move on, JC's a good young man and hopefully he'll prove my evaluation of him wrong. Let's hope when we look at film this year we're just splitting hairs on how the Skins could've been more dominant in their 10+ wins.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=Lotus;720587]Because Campbell is a middle of the road QB, he is the perfect Rorschach test onto which people project what they want. The haters will see a glass half empty. The kool aid drinkers will see a glass half full. Reasonable people will see things in the middle.[/quote]

Yep, nothing more difficult and tiring than evaluating mediocrity. Well said.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=Lotus;720587]Because Campbell is a middle of the road QB, he is the perfect Rorschach test onto which people project what they want. The haters will see a glass half empty. The kool aid drinkers will see a glass half full. Reasonable people will see things in the middle.[/quote]

Very well put.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote][QUOTE=GTripp0012;720565]I'd say go deeper into the season, w/film instead of assuming that six or seven games make a season. Campbell looked a lot like 2008 Campbell for the first six weeks after the bye.

Of course, a lot of the bad habits you saw reappeared in the Week 15 and 16 games, so I guess you could say he was never "above" the influence of a poor offense, just feeding off weak pass defenses. Which supports the whole "Jason Campbell is a good quarterback on a level playing field" theory. That's all I'm saying.

Like I said a million times after the season, it doesn't matter who your quarterback is if you are worse than everyone you play. The story of the Bills game is that we were a completely better team at every level than them. That's far more important that the abstract concept of QB leadership, IMO.Uh, no. I'm pretty sure I never said Campbell only made two bad plays.

[B]Two a game, perhaps.[/[/B]QUOTE][/quote]


Dude face it u lost the jason arguments.

To end the whole famous discusion about Jason let it be known about this.

Traded for a 4th round 2012 round pick *Jason Campbell* he was always bad and never lived up to his potiential as the next D williams. ..and he was horrible.

Monk 4 congrats man you perfected the argument about jason. Jason is a bum...I remember the 17-0 loss to the cowboys when Collinsworth went on the dude all day.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

^^^^
[quote=Lotus;720587]Because Campbell is a middle of the road QB, he is the perfect Rorschach test onto which people project what they want. The haters will see a glass half empty. The kool aid drinkers will see a glass half full. Reasonable people will see things in the middle.[/quote]

But the people that dislike Campbell usually won't even admit that he's a middle of the road QB. And that's what i don't understand.
Edit: See previous post.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;720664]But the people that dislike Campbell usually won't even admit that he's a middle of the road QB. And that's what i don't understand.[/quote]

Jason Campbell is the ....I guess best back up in the NFL and nothing more. I highly doubt he would do good with the patriots or vikings. If he couldn't hit Santana Moss down field than no way he'll hit Randy or Sidney downfield.

May Mcnabb have mercy on Jason Candle and Raiders nation. I can't wait for the Oakland forums to start saying " why is he checking down so much?"

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=SmootSmack;720375]So let's see in the past 9 months we've added a Super Bowl winning GM, a Super Bowl winning HC, a franchise QB, and a stud LT (among other things), and we just won our preseason opener 42-17...yet we still want to keep harping on Jason Campbell (and Campbell vs. Todd Collins-neither of whom are here anymore-from 2007)?

Raise your hand if you want this thread locked and put out of its misery[/quote]

hand raised. moving on with my life after JC happily

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;719891]Dude honestly? I give examples all day but you all just say no he didn't and the o line was bad and you all are geniuses. It truly is pointless. His play will do all the talking but you all will find an excuse for that as well. He is as indecisive a QB as I have seen in a long time. Take away last year, which is bad for you all because you take away his best year TD wise. But what do you have left ?

I can't use the '07 season as an example because you all will say that it doesn't count because Todd Collins who had to play behind the same O-Line and use the same receivers that couldn't play well and led this team to the playoffs when we were running away from playoff contention. Why ? Because you all will say that it was just because Todd Collins was in Al Saunders' system forever. Cool. Even though we had to defeat the Vikings, Giants, Cowboys, and Bears all four teams had pretty damn good defenses that year but it wouldn't fly though would it ?

I can't use his first year with Zorn because you all will just say that he was good early in the year and that Ron Jaworski said that Campbell played well. But you will forget how Jaworski ripped JC and his followers about JC not having time. But you all would've probably missed that game.

For some reason I am the only guy here who saw JC miss recievers time and time again on deep routes. Whether it was a deep post, a deep out, a fly, or even a fade that he threw put of bounds consistently buuuut I'm sure that would be the receivers fault.

Or how about the line adjustments that he wouldn't quite do ? I mean lets be real people. You all talked about how he wasn't allowed to audible because he was being held back by the administration but he told Matt Mosley that he checked from a pass to a run on a 3 and 8 against the Giants because he forgot the down and distance.

You can look back at the games and see where he misses receivers or waits too long to pull the trigger. When has he wowed you as a fan ? When did you ever look at him and say damn he's good ? I'm sure that you probably left many games saying If he only, or He was that close. Hold on to that New Orleans game because that was the only time that he showed a glimmer of brilliance in my opinion. You tell me when he pointed out a blitz, or when he made you feel like he was special. But what the hell do I know ?

I'm sure some of you play Madden and if you can figure out that sometimes you need to change a protection to survive,.. Why can't he ?

Have your fun loving him and his subpar play. Like I've always said, UNTIL he changes his game he will be what he is. Middle of the pack and apparently we as Redskins fans believe that middle of the pack can work because waaaaaaaaay back in the day we were able to win without the best QB's in the league. The man NEVER had to compete for his job, and only when he was told that he would be replaced did he decide to start becoming a leader on this team. So GTripp maybe this isn't good enough but you all kill me with the way that you all defend him.. You can be so critical of everyone elses play but this guy,...this guy gets a pass. But why ?

He's a Raider and I'm officially done talking about him here. I'll save it for another area where I can talk and see the look in someones eyes when they realize that ot's not just hate, but the fact that I'm a fan of this team who wasn't willing to settle for subpar play at the most important position in all of sports.

Jason Campbell is a bum and I'm done talking about him.

Have fun with this.[/quote]

Not good but GREAT POST.l

Jason Candle yes I said it...Candle was one of the hugest failures in this fourm and the team. He was a whiner...I remember the time he bashed CP because CP said Jason wasn't those type of leaders than scream or get in your face. Nothing more he did say he wasnt a true leader in that category but Jason went ahead and date bash off CP ...CP the real redskins....the man who fought for yards and had countless 1000yards for us and Jason dare mocked him?. Who cares abour pratice...thats all jason said and talked about CP but IDC CP will and always will be one of the greatest Redskins who ever lived.

Jason didn't even say sorry for messing up here in washington or even fault for him self of what he did. He could of said that but CP atleast said that he would come back 100% and show the haters what he did wrong and he usually did.


I remember the time CP bash the OL and that was unclassy but so did Jason. Jason man he doesn't deserve any redskins love from us. We deserve better and we got it in Mcnabb .


I mean he'll excell in Oakland ..who doesn't?. And remember the time he beat the Giants when he was here :).

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=mcnabb5;720663]Dude face it u lost the jason arguments.

To end the whole famous discusion about Jason let it be known about this.

Traded for a 4th round 2012 round pick *Jason Campbell* he was always bad and never lived up to his potiential as the next D williams. ..and he was horrible.

Monk 4 congrats man you perfected the argument about jason. Jason is a bum...I remember the 17-0 loss to the cowboys when Collinsworth went on the dude all day.[/quote]Well, if nothing else, thanks for helping to perpetuate the idea that opponents of my argument are the most illiterate folks who know how to use a computer. That wasn't really my goal here...but I suppose it's a nice thing to know.

I think the irony is that the more people that support Monk's POV, the more ridiculous his position looks, and the more people like this fool tell me I'm wrong, the better I look.

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=mcnabb5;720669]Not good but GREAT POST.l

[B]Jason Candle yes I said it...Candle [/B]was one of the hugest failures in this fourm and the team. He was a whiner...I remember the time he bashed CP because CP said Jason wasn't those type of leaders than scream or get in your face. Nothing more he did say he wasnt a true leader in that category but Jason went ahead and date bash off CP ...CP the real redskins....the man who fought for yards and had countless 1000yards for us and Jason dare mocked him?. Who cares abour pratice...thats all jason said and talked about CP but IDC CP will and always will be one of the greatest Redskins who ever lived.

Jason didn't even say sorry for messing up here in washington or even fault for him self of what he did. He could of said that but CP atleast said that he would come back 100% and show the haters what he did wrong and he usually did.


I remember the time CP bash the OL and that was unclassy but so did Jason. Jason man he doesn't deserve any redskins love from us. We deserve better and we got it in Mcnabb .


I mean he'll excell in Oakland ..who doesn't?. And remember the time he beat the Giants when he was here :).[/quote]

Fatal BERT!!!!!!! Zomg OMGWTFBBQ LOLOLOOOOOOOOOLOOLOLOLOOOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLLOOLOLOLLO K FKLJSDKLFJSD:HJS:EH:LSHG:SHGJ:LVHNVL:JNXV: X CVXLC VLKJl ;jsdfl;kajg;fsdjsdfl;sadkfsljf'saf JCANDLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ZOMG OMG WRTBBQMILF!

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;720664]^^^^


But the people that dislike Campbell usually won't even admit that he's a middle of the road QB. And that's what i don't understand.
Edit: See previous post.[/quote]

You are right. That's what I meant by "glass half empty." Just like the posts on both sides of yours. :)

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=mcnabb5;720669]Not good but GREAT POST.l

Jason Candle yes I said it...Candle was one of the hugest failures in this fourm and the team. He was a whiner...I remember the time he bashed CP because CP said Jason wasn't those type of leaders than scream or get in your face. Nothing more he did say he wasnt a true leader in that category but Jason went ahead and date bash off CP ...CP the real redskins....the man who fought for yards and had countless 1000yards for us and Jason dare mocked him?. Who cares abour pratice...thats all jason said and talked about CP but IDC CP will and always will be one of the greatest Redskins who ever lived.

Jason didn't even say sorry for messing up here in washington or even fault for him self of what he did. He could of said that but CP atleast said that he would come back 100% and show the haters what he did wrong and he usually did.


I remember the time CP bash the OL and that was unclassy but so did Jason. Jason man he doesn't deserve any redskins love from us. We deserve better and we got it in Mcnabb .


I mean he'll excell in Oakland ..who doesn't?. And remember the time he beat the Giants when he was here :).[/quote]

You are not just factually incorrect. The worst part of your arguments is that JC does not play here any more, so there is no point in bashing him. Stop living in the past.

Now, back to our fruitful criticisms of Billy Kilmer...

Re: Good for Campbell
 

[quote=mcnabb5;720665]If he couldn't hit Santana Moss down field than no way he'll hit Randy or Sidney downfield.[/quote]

I can't believe i'm asking you this but wouldn't it be [I][B]easier[/B][/I] to throw to Randy Moss or Sidney Rice?

Re: Good for Campbell
 

Enough of this. You want to continue talking about Jason Campbell at this point go [url=http://www.raiderfans.net/]here[/url]