Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1286421]I understand that there are NFL players who probably have health conditions that may be affected by the vaccine (i.e. Sweat with his heart issue). But it is a bit hard for me to take serious someone who just doesn't want to get vaccinated without any apparent reason, when they are also making a business decision to play in a sport that has been shown to carry a lot of health risks in the long term.

Also, NFL players always make decisions on their health with a business aspect in mind (i.e. treatment for injury, etc., etc.). So this is not something new for them; however, what is different is that their decision vastly affects others.[/quote]

Everyone has a choice, regardless whether you consider it a bit hard for you take seriously.

Once again, there's empirical evidence (as Schneed also stated) that there could be reactions to the vaccination, whether in the short or long-term, as well as many people wondering what they're taking or getting via the vaccination (ie, the Tuskegee Experiment and 1976 Swine Flu).

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

In a time where players are taking controversial "social justice" stands and driving fans away, here's a player worth supporting. He's standing up for younger players who can't speak up and keep a job.

The Bills' Cole Beasley is taking a stand on forced vaccinations. The League is threatening players if they don't get the injection and he's standing up to them. Several other high-profile players including DeAndre Hopkins and Leonard Fournette are also saying they'll retire over the protocols and the injection.


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl-bills-wr-cole-beasley-on-covid-vaccine-im-not-anti-or-pro-vax-im-pro-choice-211223741.html[/url]

[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/buffalo-bills-cole-beasley-calls-nflpa-a-joke-new-covid19-coronavirus-rules-restricting-unvaccinated-players-193720432.html[/url]


[quote]I'm not anti- or pro-vax — I'm pro-choice. With that being said, the issue at hand is information being withheld from players in order for a player to be swayed in a direction he may not be comfortable with.

When dealing with a player's health and safety, there should be complete transparency regarding information that is vital in the decision-making process. Without having all the proper information, a player can feel misguided and unsure about a very personal choice. It makes a player feel unprotected and gives concerns about future topics regarding health and our ability to make educated decisions.

Some people may think that I’m being selfish and making this a ‘me’ thing. It is all about the young players who don’t have a voice and are reaching out to me every day because they’re being told if they don’t get vaxxed, they’ll be cut. Agents are being told by teams if they have unvaccinated guys, they will not be given opportunities as of now to be seen in workouts. So, once unvaccinated players get cut, they're losing a dream they have worked their whole lives for over a vaccine that is proven to not keep people from contracting COVID as we've seen.

Every doctor I've gone to with questions begins every sentence with 'From what we know now,' which tells me we don't know enough.[/quote]

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

Beasley is a moron.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

Saw that response coming lol.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

I mean come on the dude is sitting there with his mask under his nose. Total buffoon.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=MTK;1286438]I mean come on the dude is sitting there with his mask under his nose. Total buffoon.[/quote]

You've been trained well.

Personally attack and shame anyone who dares to question the Government.



I just listened to a 45-year HVAC engineer explain with REAL SCIENTIFIC FACTS how wearing a mask (aka filter) on your face is dangerous and harmful, especially to children who aren't exactly the best at hygiene.

But Nancy Pelosi calls it "science" as she calls people morons and threatens to arrest them for not wearing masks around her...while she doesn't wear a mask.

[YT]JWIpto3H5X8[/YT]

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=PorkSkins;1286426]Everyone has a choice, regardless whether you consider it a bit hard for you take seriously.

Once again, there's empirical evidence (as Schneed also stated) that there could be reactions to the vaccination, whether in the short or long-term, as well as many people wondering what they're taking or getting via the vaccination (ie, the Tuskegee Experiment and 1976 Swine Flu).[/quote]

Ehhhhhh I don’t think S10 was saying that, he was just calling me an idiot.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1286439]You've been trained well.[/quote]

lol

ok

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1286440]Ehhhhhh I don’t think S10 was saying that, he was just calling me an idiot.[/quote]

LOL, Maybe, he was calling you an idiot (or not). But he was saying what I recently posted.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

Id vote to just lock this thread up.

This is turning into brother on brother. I love reading Chiefs football thoughts and hopefully we are still cool.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1286443]Id vote to just lock this thread up.

This is turning into brother on brother. I love reading Chiefs football thoughts and hopefully we are still cool.[/quote]

Agreed. I think all that can be said has been said.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

Before it gets locked, I'd just like to say it seems to be a matter of risk. People who wear masks in public settings or get the vaccine think the risk of COVID hurting them or someone they care about is high and are willing to take the risk of getting the shot/s to lower the risk of death or disability from COVID. People who think the risk of serious repercussions from COVID are low don't follow protocols and generally don't mind the risk of getting COVID or spreading it elsewhere.

Also Buster, how you gonna come in here tal'm bout real scientific facts from a HVAC engineer and then link us to some Pelosi nonsense nobody wants to watch? If you got the hard truths we need to accept back it up.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

Discussing this on a sports forum was a bad idea from the start. :D

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1286443]Id vote to just lock this thread up.

This is turning into brother on brother. I love reading Chiefs football thoughts and hopefully we are still cool.[/quote]

We're cool man. I have no ill will for you or anyone else. We disagree on some things, and that's ok. The main message I have tried to convey is that, despite having strong opinions one way or another, I don't think it is helpful (or warranted) to shame, name-call, or ostracize individuals who make different or even unpopular decisions for their own, or their family's well-being - no matter which side of the vaccine argument you are on.

It's tough times everywhere you look these days. I'm not sure how we will collectively pull ourselves out of this overwhelmingly divisive era we have found ourselves in. I just try my best to not be a part of the problem(s).

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1286450]We're cool man. I have no ill will for you or anyone else. We disagree on some things, and that's ok. The main message I have tried to convey is that, despite having strong opinions one way or another, I don't think it is helpful (or warranted) to shame, name-call, or ostracize individuals who make different or even unpopular decisions for their own, or their family's well-being - no matter which side of the vaccine argument you are on.

It's tough times everywhere you look these days. I'm not sure how we will collectively pull ourselves out of this overwhelmingly divisive era we have found ourselves in. I just try my best to not be a part of the problem(s).[/quote]

Sound post, Chief.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=mooby;1286447]Before it gets locked, I'd just like to say it seems to be a matter of risk. People who wear masks in public settings or get the vaccine think the risk of COVID hurting them or someone they care about is high and are willing to take the risk of getting the shot/s to lower the risk of death or disability from COVID. People who think the risk of serious repercussions from COVID are low don't follow protocols and generally don't mind the risk of getting COVID or spreading it elsewhere.

Also Buster, how you gonna come in here tal'm bout real scientific facts from a HVAC engineer and then link us to some Pelosi nonsense nobody wants to watch? If you got the hard truths we need to accept back it up.[/quote]

I've spoke to several people and heard quite a few stories, and vaccinated and non-vaccinated people are out in public not wearing masks. As you know, it's confirmed that vaccinated can also contract and spread the virus.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1286435]In a time where players are taking controversial "social justice" stands and driving fans away, here's a player worth supporting. He's standing up for younger players who can't speak up and keep a job.

The Bills' Cole Beasley is taking a stand on forced vaccinations. The League is threatening players if they don't get the injection and he's standing up to them. Several other high-profile players including DeAndre Hopkins and Leonard Fournette are also saying they'll retire over the protocols and the injection.


[url]https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl-bills-wr-cole-beasley-on-covid-vaccine-im-not-anti-or-pro-vax-im-pro-choice-211223741.html[/url]

[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/buffalo-bills-cole-beasley-calls-nflpa-a-joke-new-covid19-coronavirus-rules-restricting-unvaccinated-players-193720432.html[/url][/quote]

Never really thought Cole Beasley was gonna be the type of guy to take this stand. I bet the fact his stance seems to get stronger is do to silent support around the league and I bet a lot of players have reached out behind to closed doors to offer support. Just kinda surprised.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=mooby;1286447]Before it gets locked, I'd just like to say it seems to be a matter of risk. People who wear masks in public settings or get the vaccine think the risk of COVID hurting them or someone they care about is high and are willing to take the risk of getting the shot/s to lower the risk of death or disability from COVID. People who think the risk of serious repercussions from COVID are low don't follow protocols and generally don't mind the risk of getting COVID or spreading it elsewhere.

Also Buster, how you gonna come in here tal'm bout real scientific facts from a HVAC engineer and then link us to some Pelosi nonsense nobody wants to watch? If you got the hard truths we need to accept back it up.[/quote]

I do agree that ultimately people are making decisions based on their own risk assessment. Some are getting the vaccine because the risks associated with contracting the disease significantly outweigh the risks of any side effects from the vaccine. While others think the opposite - the risks of side effects, or unknown future/long term effects from the vaccine outweigh the risks associated with contracting the disease.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=mooby;1286447]Before it gets locked, I'd just like to say it seems to be a matter of risk. People who wear masks in public settings or get the vaccine think the risk of COVID hurting them or someone they care about is high and are willing to take the risk of getting the shot/s to lower the risk of death or disability from COVID. People who think the risk of serious repercussions from COVID are low don't follow protocols and generally don't mind the risk of getting COVID or spreading it elsewhere.

Also Buster, how you gonna come in here tal'm bout real scientific facts from a HVAC engineer and then link us to some Pelosi nonsense nobody wants to watch? If you got the hard truths we need to accept back it up.[/quote]

Never take medical advice from a HVAC guy. Personally I go with my plumber for sound medical advice. He knows his shit.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=MTK;1286456]Never take medical advice from a HVAC guy. Personally I go with my plumber for sound medical advice. He knows his shit.[/quote]

Haha! That was a clever retort.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

I like this ... we are all happy again.

One thing men do well ... we have short term memories. Like the towel we use 8 times in a row after we shower.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1286465]I like this ... we are all happy again.

[/quote]

I got you fam!


[quote=Chico23231;1286453]Never really thought Cole Beasley was gonna be the type of guy to take this stand. I bet the fact his stance seems to get stronger is do to silent support around the league and I bet a lot of players have reached out behind to closed doors to offer support. Just kinda surprised.[/quote]

Beasley is another hypocrite that is pro choice when it comes grandma and grandpa dying from covid but pro life for fetus.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

Personally, if the majority of the world dies from vaccines in the next few years, I'm not sure I want to be around who was left anyway...

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1286473]Personally, if the majority of the world dies from vaccines in the next few years, I'm not sure I want to be around who was left anyway...[/quote]

Pop out of the woodworks and drop a hilarious comment. I like it.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1286473]Personally, if the majority of the world dies from vaccines in the next few years, I'm not sure I want to be around who was left anyway...[/quote]

All this talk about side effects from the vaccine and I'm just sitting here like "if the vaccine doesn't kill me something else will." When your card gets pulled it gets pulled.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1286491]All this talk about side effects from the vaccine and I'm just sitting here like "if the vaccine doesn't kill me something else will." When your card gets pulled it gets pulled.[/QUOTE]Kinda the same for the virus isn't it?

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

Vaccine testing and approval is as much about statistical sample size as it is time, many vaccines take a long time to approve because they are used sparingly at first so it takes time to build up a suitable large sample size from which to draw conclusions, the mark of this pandemic is the shear volume of vaccines that have been given so quickly which massively shortens the time to gather the initial data. This does not remove the need to study long term effects, but that is not such a limiting factor when normally approving drugs as you would have to wait 20 years for any significant valid data on long term effects.

The abundance and casual use of anecdotal evidence has severley damaged the reputation of vaccines. The MMR issues of the last 20 years were entirely due to a doctor who, albeit with the best of intentions, gathered anecdotal evidence which has since been proved to have absolutely no foundation in science. But the damage had been done and since then unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence has taking precedence over science in the minds of the public. Saying a bunch of people have had reactions is the worst type of anecdotal evidence. Many people have an initial reaction to the vaccine, that is the immune system reacting. It is not an adverse reaction.

The only factual numbers I have seen are that 2500+ NFL players have been vaccinated, which is the group we are talking about, and I have not seen one report of an actual adverse reaction, and we surely would have had anti vaxers screaming from the rooftops had it happened

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[QUOTE=EdmundDorf;1286498]Vaccine testing and approval is as much about statistical sample size as it is time, many vaccines take a long time to approve because they are used sparingly at first so it takes time to build up a suitable large sample size from which to draw conclusions, the mark of this pandemic is the shear volume of vaccines that have been given so quickly which massively shortens the time to gather the initial data. This does not remove the need to study long term effects, but that is not such a limiting factor when normally approving drugs as you would have to wait 20 years for any significant valid data on long term effects.



The abundance and casual use of anecdotal evidence has severley damaged the reputation of vaccines. The MMR issues of the last 20 years were entirely due to a doctor who, albeit with the best of intentions, gathered anecdotal evidence which has since been proved to have absolutely no foundation in science. But the damage had been done and since then unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence has taking precedence over science in the minds of the public. Saying a bunch of people have had reactions is the worst type of anecdotal evidence. Many people have an initial reaction to the vaccine, that is the immune system reacting. It is not an adverse reaction.



The only factual numbers I have seen are that 2500+ NFL players have been vaccinated, which is the group we are talking about, and I have not seen one report of an actual adverse reaction, and we surely would have had anti vaxers screaming from the rooftops had it happened[/QUOTE]I would say 2500 athletes in their best conditioning doesn't really make a solid sample base for long term effects. Especially when their daily job takes such a toll and puts their bodies through high stress moments.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=PorkSkins;1286452]I've spoke to several people and heard quite a few stories, and vaccinated and non-vaccinated people are out in public not wearing masks. As you know, it's confirmed that vaccinated can also contract and spread the virus.[/quote]

Pork, and anyone else who hasn’t been vaccinated: You should expect to get this Delta variant. I respect and agree you should have choice and it should always be a choice but the data shows the greatest strength is it’s ability to be spread. The data shows also if your are vaccinated, you have protection against it and if you happen to get it (rare) it will keep you out of the hospital.

But the unvaccinated should expect to get the delta variant, I wouldn’t have said that with the previous covid virus and prior strains.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1286500]I would say 2500 athletes in their best conditioning doesn't really make a solid sample base for long term effects. Especially when their daily job takes such a toll and puts their bodies through high stress moments.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

These are the exact group we were talking about, whether players should get the vaccine, given their age and physical condition they are a uniquely separate group, and as such 2500+ is a significant sample size

Long term effects cannot be determined for at least ten years, more likely 20, which is far beyond the time it usually takes to approve a vaccine. I can simpathize to some degree with those of you in the US where distrust of the profit motive of big pharma is a legitimate concern, but the rest of the world is not as profit driven when it comes to medicines and the regulators are more substantial.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

I agree they are unique but disagree that the sample size is significant relative to all highly trained individuals. In addition, the biggest single question mark is that of time, especially how being given even the low dose of covid required in the vaccine affects an athlete when exerting extreme physical activity. These 2500+ you speak of have not gone through GameDay type exertion, will the vaccinated carry and release covid at a greater rate than the general public, players can't possibly know that because the circumstance has never existed.

I don't belong to the group that doubts big pharma so I am not sure why you mention that, seems like you may be making assumptions without facts.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1286506]I agree they are unique but disagree that the sample size is significant relative to all highly trained individuals. In addition, the biggest single question mark is that of time, especially how being given even the low dose of covid required in the vaccine affects an athlete when exerting extreme physical activity. These 2500+ you speak of have not gone through GameDay type exertion, will the vaccinated carry and release covid at a greater rate than the general public, players can't possibly know that because the circumstance has never existed.

I don't belong to the group that doubts big pharma so I am not sure why you mention that, seems like you may be making assumptions without facts.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

A fair point about exersion, but I was talking about NFL players, not those young and in good condition,there are only 2600 or so NFL players. The olympics happening now with several thousand athletes who are exerting themselves to the extremes would seem to add significantly to that data set

I was not attempting to generalize about your specific position with regards big pharma, more an observation from an external perspective there appears to be a greater distrust in the US than elsewhere, apologies if I did not make that clear

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1286501]Pork, and anyone else who hasn’t been vaccinated: You should expect to get this Delta variant. I respect and agree you should have choice and it should always be a choice but the data shows the greatest strength is it’s ability to be spread. The data shows also if your are vaccinated, you have protection against it and if you happen to get it (rare) it will keep you out of the hospital.

But the unvaccinated should expect to get the delta variant, I wouldn’t have said that with the previous covid virus and prior strains.[/quote]


I see you often speak in absolutes. I'm not saying you're ignorant, but speaking in absolutes is an ignorant approach.

I hope you are aware that the vaccinated has just as high, if not higher risk, to contract the delta variant. I hope you're also aware that the unvaccinated may OR may not contract the variant.

Keep believing everything being told to you by mainstream media.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=PorkSkins;1286511]I see you often speak in absolutes. I'm not saying you're ignorant, but speaking in absolutes is an ignorant approach.

[B]I hope you are aware that the vaccinated has just as high, if not higher risk, to contract the delta variant. [/B] I hope you're also aware that the unvaccinated may OR may not contract the variant.

Keep believing everything being told to you by mainstream media.[/quote]

Trying my hardest to stay out of the COVID discussion, but this is untrue:

[url]https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/5-things-to-know-delta-variant-covid[/url]

Vaccinated people ARE more vulnerable than previous strains, but there is ample evidence that has come out from numerous sources in the past few days that while protection is lower, you're still much less likely to get it.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

Getting the virus and getting seriously ill are two different ball games. Best of luck to those choosing not to take the shot. Talk to your doctor if you have doubts or questions.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=PorkSkins;1286511]I see you often speak in absolutes. I'm not saying you're ignorant, but speaking in absolutes is an ignorant approach.

I hope you are aware that the vaccinated has just as high, if not higher risk, to contract the delta variant. I hope you're also aware that the unvaccinated may OR may not contract the variant.

[B]Keep believing everything being told to you by mainstream media[/B].[/quote]

In bold, I don’t think you realize how ABSOLUTELY ridiculous this statement is when referring to media and my opinions on the media.

And the vaccinated are absolutely more protected against the delta…there is no argument against that. Simply look at infection rates and who is in the hospital and deaths with covid confirmed with delta. Overwhelming the unvaccinated.

I also strongly believe I shouldn’t be made to wear a mask if vaccinated. The data for that hasn’t been provided…and the vaccine works.

Bro…understand I want you to be safe and I’m not going to ridicule you if you’re not vaccinated, that’s your choice.

But the delta is extremely contagious…it’s very likely unvaccinated will get it.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1286512]Trying my hardest to stay out of the COVID discussion, but this is untrue:

[url]https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/5-things-to-know-delta-variant-covid[/url]

Vaccinated people ARE more vulnerable than previous strains, but there is ample evidence that has come out from numerous sources in the past few days that while protection is lower, you're still much less likely to get it.[/quote]

Do more research if you think the quote you bolded is false. Vaccinated people has just as much of a risk of contracting the variant than the unvaccinated.

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/[/url]

There's other reports of what I've stated. There's also counties in the Bay area of California, which has a highest numbers of vaccination, but also some of the highest new case rates. I'm having trouble with the link, but I'll post it when I get a chance.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

One important fact that we do not hear enough about anywhere is that those of us who have previously had COVID now have natural immunity, as a result. The science tells us that this group does not need the vaccine. Vaccines are/were meant to replicate the effect of the actual infection as to creating antibodies and immunity.


I wonder how many unvaccinated players have already had COVID? This statistic should also be tracked and considered.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=PorkSkins;1286516]Do more research if you think the quote you bolded is false. Vaccinated people has just as much of a risk of contracting the variant than the unvaccinated.

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/[/url]

There's other reports of what I've stated. There's also counties in the Bay area of California, which has a highest numbers of vaccination, but also some of the highest new case rates. I'm having trouble with the link, but I'll post it when I get a chance.[/quote]

I read that article and stand by my statement. You said you are at the same or higher risk of CONTRACTING the virus if you are fully vaccinated. Nowhere in that article does it state that. It DOES say that you can equally SPREAD it (not catch it) and I do agree with that.

Re: Coronavirus (sports edition) thread
 

[quote=PorkSkins;1286516]Do more research if you think the quote you bolded is false. Vaccinated people has just as much of a risk of contracting the variant than the unvaccinated.

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/[/url]

There's other reports of what I've stated. There's also counties in the Bay area of California, which has a highest numbers of vaccination, but also some of the highest new case rates. I'm having trouble with the link, but I'll post it when I get a chance.[/quote]

Of course the NYT headline this morning as well as this Wa Post article is about as misleading and trash as ever. Cdc says it will make public the so called research today…which is convenient for a Friday news dump.

Another great example of terrible messaging by the administration pushed by “so called credibile” news org.

Does everyone see how this works? And why we have this predicament? JFC. This feeds the doubts about the vaccine