Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I think we have a good shot at beating Carolina. 4-5 at the bye wouldn't be so bad.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;958101]Do you realize where our offense ranks? Not sure how you can talk about lack of productivity. Today was apparently a off day for all of our WRs. Probably why Kyle ended up running a screen for Paulsen. He was the best out there today.[/QUOTE]

RG- 3 / Morris/ oline. Can you honestly say Hank or Robinson have anything to do with that? Garcon certainly doesnt he is hurt. Morgan? Moss has been pretty decent but the wr's havent exactly carried our offense NC.
Edit: i did not mean lack of productivity from the offense i meant strictly from the wr's.

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[QUOTE=skinsfanmdc;958097]Yeah Snyder fires him at midseason. Are you thinking before typing this?[/QUOTE]

He is asking for opinions and threw that out there as an option - its a pretty open ended question. You should share your thoughts on your opinion of Shannys job security.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

If Shannahn doesnt workout, what coach would or could you see with the skins in the future with RG III?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;957901]I don't think firing him during the season would help. I don't even know if he should be fired after the season. I don't know, I really wanna give the guy the benefit of the doubt but I'm seeing very little in the way of whole team improvement. The team is practically the same as last year except now we actually have a quarterback. It's like throwing a new gloss of paint on an old shitty car; It looks nice at first but then you realize it's still your same old shitty car.[/quote]

Or a new coat of paint on section 8 housing. Inside, It might have a 70 inch LED 3dtv (RG3), but you're still in downtown detroit. Our defense would be the crumbling foundation, and the old lead based paint chips falling off all over the place. Of course our corners would be the overflowed toilet, and our safeties would be the rat and squirrel droppings in the dark dank corners.

(I don't know why I just typed that, I just kept going, just like the vast majority of my posts........)

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;958024]Shanahan deserves time now that he has RG3, you can't just give up on him after he gets a rookie QB; plus it hurts our rookies progression. Shanahan is smart by buying himself some time by drafting RG3. If shanahan doesn't help this team in terms of wins next year, he'll definitely be a fired candidate. But I believe, and I hope Snyder has learned (plus Snyder went to great lengths to get Mike to coach this team) that you need to give a coach time to get his team together. Now that Mike has his QB, his time is starting now.[/quote]

I agee. He needs at least one more year.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;958075]If i compare his drafts to years gone by ( outside of RG-3 - even Vinny couldnt have missed on that - rite?) i see alot of quanity and a little quality. In the past we had zero quanity and a little quality. Samuels, lavar, cooley, rak, jansen, etc. We would fill our team with veterans, now we fill them with young guys - but i think alot are misses. There has to be a happy medium between quality and quantity.


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I understand what you're saying. My point was more about continuity with the coaching staff/front office (the thread is about whether or not Shanny should be fired, which is what I was trying to disagree with here). Check who the coaches/front office staffs were who drafted Jansen, Lavar, Rak and Cooley. Off the top of my head I believe it's three different coaches...that's my only point.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=44ever;957912]It was sarcasm... I couldn't care less if they fire him or not. The Skins will never be a great team. Well not for a long time anyway...[/quote]

Exactly, its going to take at least another 4 or 5 years until we are playoff ready. It takes time to build a winner. The past 3 years have been the PRE-rebuilding phase. Fans just need to shut the phuck up and be patient. Jeezus christ. It takes a long time to get above .500, even with an ALL UNIVERSE quarterback. DUH. Shanahan will turn us into a perennial contender, just you wait and see (4-5 years). Mike Shanahan has lost his edge (Elway), so its just gonna take him a while to get it back. Thats all..........





/sarcasm

Mike Shanahan has absolutely disappointed, and I believe no longer is qualified to coach any team. His successes this season are completely attributed to Robert Griffin, just as the defense being completely run into the ground, burnt up, then defecated on can be directly attributed to him. I don't know what its going to take to prove the game has passed his geriatric ass by, but sorry to say it has. Denver fired his ass for a reason, we were just so desperate for a good coach, we thought that we could put some good pieces around him, and waalaah, at least have an 8-8 team. Guess we were very wrong. I just hope we cut bait after THIS season, instead of giving him and Haslett one more year of stunted progression. (Other than RG3, regression might actually fit better as the term there.)

Our new coaching staff should be:
HC-Sam Huff
OC-Sonny
DC-Larry Michael
ST-randle el

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I'm a little surprised that Fire has only three votes (for the record, I'm on the fence), because it's a private poll. Not surprised that "No" is in the lead.

How many of you would extend Mike Shanahan's contract today? I'd have to assume between 50-70%...otherwise it would suggest that people are more scared of the alternatives than supporting the status quo.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;957933]This is the other part of my problem. He's only been here 3 years and with a franchise that is/was in rebuilding mode. The last coach that coached here for over 3 years was NORV TURNER and they fired him in 2000. All other coaches have been here for 3 years or less.

To me that's a glaring consistency problem.

Except Zorn. He needed to go.[/quote]

You know whats funny about that whole thing?

Jim Zorn (and I am in no way saying he should have ever been a HC) had, with a MUCH MUCH crappier team, a better winning percentage than Mike Shanahan did with the Redskins. AND he had Mr. Cerrato to contend with as well. Maybe its time people take a few seconds to stop and smell the Folgers, and realize maybe Allen and Shanahan just might not be the saviors all of us envisioned. I understand the longing for consistency, but if you cannot at least get close to the playoffs with an NFL caliber squad in the past 7 years of head coaching, you are just not that good of a coach. No matter if you won 2 super bowls with arguably the top quarterback of all time. You're just not.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=53Fan;957983]I think Mike has improved the personell on this team and except for the secondary put it in pretty good shape for the next HC and his new assistant coaches.[/quote]

That's a really, really good way to look it at. Realistic, yet optimistic at the same time. Leave it to 53 to bring in the sage wisdom :)

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

No need to extend him, I'd let him ride out these last 2 years.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958130]No need to extend him, I'd let him ride out these last 2 years.[/quote]2 years is a really long time to ride out, no? 8 games seems far more reasonable.

If these next eight games are the best eight games of the Shanahan era, I see no reason why he shouldn't remain the coach. But the Redskins have [B]already[/B] erred on the side of patience here. There's no reason to act irrationally.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;957996]Some of you farm animals apparently didn't watch the games against Atlanta, Minnesota, and the Giants. Acting like the whole team has been flat for a month.[/quote]

Indeed, the whole team was flat only today. The coaching, however, has been flat (if flat means woefully outmatched) in all but two games this season. One game was against a guy who's never really coached before (New Orleans) and the other against a pretty bad team (Bucs).

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

We were out coached against the Vikings?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;958128]You know whats funny about that whole thing?

Jim Zorn (and I am in no way saying he should have ever been a HC) had, with a MUCH MUCH crappier team, a better winning percentage than Mike Shanahan did with the Redskins. AND he had Mr. Cerrato to contend with as well. Maybe its time people take a few seconds to stop and smell the Folgers, and realize maybe Allen and Shanahan just might not be the saviors all of us envisioned. I understand the longing for consistency, but if you cannot at least get close to the playoffs with an NFL caliber squad in the past 7 years of head coaching, you are just not that good of a coach. No matter if you won 2 super bowls with arguably the top quarterback of all time. You're just not.[/quote]

The team was worse? They were 8-8 and had 4 Pro Bowl players on that team. (2008) Portis rushed for almost 1500 yards. Campbell had 3000+ yards and more TDs than INTs.

And you can't possibly be saying they were better in 2009 because we finished 4-12.

I don't think we're THAT bad.

[QUOTE=Mechanix544;958118]Or a new coat of paint on section 8 housing. Inside, It might have a 70 inch LED 3dtv (RG3), but you're still in downtown detroit. Our defense would be the crumbling foundation, and the old lead based paint chips falling off all over the place. Of course our corners would be the overflowed toilet, and our safeties would be the rat and squirrel droppings in the dark dank corners.

(I don't know why I just typed that, I just kept going, just like the vast majority of my posts........)[/QUOTE]

That was awesome. Lmao.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=mooby;958016]Gibbs was here 4 years.[/quote]

Four years is a lifetime in the national football league. The league is structured, and I'm talking about the cap, the draft method, and FA, such that you can turn a franchise around in just three years. It's been done plenty.

[QUOTE=Mechanix544;958118]Or a new coat of paint on section 8 housing. Inside, It might have a 70 inch LED 3dtv (RG3), but you're still in downtown detroit. Our defense would be the crumbling foundation, and the old lead based paint chips falling off all over the place. Of course our corners would be the overflowed toilet, and our safeties would be the rat and squirrel droppings in the dark dank corners.

(I don't know why I just typed that, I just kept going, just like the vast majority of my posts........)[/QUOTE]

This is the glass half empty look at it, it could also be looked as we have a brand new mansion in Beverly Hills, but we are sleeping on air mattresses with only a black and white TV.

[QUOTE=skinsfanmdc;958117]If Shannahn doesnt workout, what coach would or could you see with the skins in the future with RG III?[/QUOTE]

I can see that alot of coaches would jump at the chance to have RG-3 as their QB. I dont know who I see - luckily for all of us it isnt my job to choose a coach if and when Shanny is gone. I hope Shanny gets the job done next year - although - as ive pointed out - i dont think its possible to fill every need we have with the cap hit and no first round pick. I hope he does though and than I hope Kyle keeps this offense humming and takes over as HC and gets a defensive mastermind in here and RG -3 wins multiple championships. Thats the pipe dream. Thats the perfect story of continuity and success. Its also becoming less of a reality the more I watch us lose. At the end of the day Im a Redskins fan - could give a crap who the coach is as long as he wins. No reason why we shouldnt be able to put a team around RG3 that allows this to happen sooner than later.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=53Fan;958022]It would be VERY strange GTripp. Mike is pretty much known as a control freak. My biggest problem with him is that his defenses pretty much suck and if he would leave that side of the team alone (including hiring the DC) he would be more successful. I do think he has a lot to offer on the offense. But....would he ever be willing to do that?[/quote]

I mean, you could rationally consider keeping Mike as an HC in title only i.e. his input is strictly limited to the offense. But even if he would agree to it, which I think we all know given his monumental ego it'll never happen, but just for shits and giggles if he did it...what about the rest of the story?

We gotta at least consider the possibility Mike has lost the team at this point. My intuition is this will become increasingly obvious as the season wears on, which is why I say most of us here will agree it's time to move on by week 17.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Again, picking who would replace him is beyond the scope of the thread. I understand the practicality of the argument that you can fire him and end up hiring another bad coach. I get that. I'm not sure that's much of a defense of the current administration, but I get it.

Anyway, 40 games is not a small sample. It's the average NFL career for a player.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;958135]The team was worse? They were 8-8 and had 4 Pro Bowl players on that team. (2008) Portis rushed for almost 1500 yards. Campbell had 3000+ yards and more TDs than INTs.

And you can't possibly be saying they were better in 2009 because we finished 4-12.

I don't think we're THAT bad.[/quote]

Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;958129]That's a really, really good way to look it at. Realistic, yet optimistic at the same time. Leave it to 53 to bring in the sage wisdom :)[/quote]

I do what I can Goat. Hope you're doing well.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

And for the record, I'm not sure any hot coaching candidate would turn down the ability to coach RG3. If he did, we wouldn't want him anyway.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=mooby;958033]Love how we lose our first game of the season in which we played bad from start to finish and we're seriously debating whether to replace Mike Shanahan. Really? It's hard to believe guys like Goat are actually gaining ground here. I guess it really is the coaches' fault our receivers dropped an assload of passes today. I know! Next time let's just stop throwing the ball, that way we can avoid dropped passes completely!

The one constant this team has had this year is our bad defense. Obviously we know it needs more talent on it, and I think everybody is in agreement Haslett is done after the season, but do people really believe any changes we make mid-season will make a huge difference? How well did Sherman Lewis work out for us? Any recent mid-season pickups made a huge difference down the stretch for any team in the NFL? Damn people. This is the bed we've made. Now we just have to sleep in it.[/quote]

If our WRs had caught every ball today...we still would have lost, period. Would the score have been a bit closer? Sure, so what?

Any team out-coached as badly as we were today can't win. And that's the stinker of it. If our coaching staff was made up of Tomlin, Lebeau and Haley, and the Steelers were coached by the Shanahans and Haslett, we would have destroyed Pittsburgh today.

Everyone in the predictions thread who said Pittsburgh is not the team they once were...it's still the truth. They didn't even have their best player on defense today, and for the most part their WRs weren't breaking big ones. Their WRs dropped a fair number of passes today as well. They moved the chains on us because our scheme is shit. We can't/won't create pressure running a 3-4 and our secondary was obviously coached to play soft as jello.

Offensively, Kyle was channeling Jim Zorn today. In terms of play-calling/play-design it was at least as bad as anything we saw in the Zorn era. The Morgan to RG3 pass and designed QB run near the goal line are just inexcusable. Really?! You thought the Steelers wouldn't be keying on RG3 all game?

It's why I say this isn't a serious football team right now. If your coaching is so poor as to make a win metaphysically impossible, you're not a serious team.

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;958155]And for the record, I'm not sure any hot coaching candidate would turn down the ability to coach RG3. If he did, we wouldn't want him anyway.[/QUOTE]

Any coach would want to have RG3 no doubt about it. Jon gruden, whoever would not turn down griff. He's 22 years old and is already playing at an elite level, u heard Brian Billick today, he said Griffin is a top 5 QB right now in the entire league.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;958159]Any coach would want to have RG3 no doubt about it. Jon gruden, whoever would not turn down griff. He's 22 years old and is already playing at an elite level, u heard Brian Billick today, he said Griffin is a top 5 QB right now in the entire league.[/quote]The guy who Griffin reminds me the most of, as a passer, is Philip Rivers.

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;958160]The guy who Griffin reminds me the most of, as a passer, is Philip Rivers.[/QUOTE]

I honestly think he's more of an Aaron Rodgers and GULP Tony Romo when he is on the move he's deadly and even in the pocket he's great. Why do u say rivers?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Anyway, time for the stats part of this post


Winning Percentage

Mike Tice .492
Norv Turner .487
Dave Wannestedt .485
Jerry Glanville .465
Jim Haslett .435
Rich Kotite .417
Butch Davis .414
Eric Mangini .413
Vince Tobin .394
Bruce Coslet .379
June Jones .379
Mike Shanahan (WAS only) .350
John McKay .333
Mike Nolan .327
Joe Bugel .300

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;958149]Again, picking who would replace him is beyond the scope of the thread. I understand the practicality of the argument that you can fire him and end up hiring another bad coach. I get that. I'm not sure that's much of a defense of the current administration, but I get it.

Anyway, 40 games is not a small sample. It's the average NFL career for a player.[/quote]

Well, it's pretty hard to limit the scope to ending one regime, but not think about what replaces it.

Somebody made a pretty brilliant observation that RG3 (alone) will attract coaching talent. I think Snyder should look at it this way. We have something very special to offer.

So, to hell with scope. I'd take Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher tomorrow. I'd take Parcells tomorrow too. Outside the legacy coaches you just have to look around the league at teams that are getting it right.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;958163]I honestly think he's more of an Aaron Rodgers and GULP Tony Romo when he is on the move he's deadly and even in the pocket he's great. Why do u say rivers?[/quote]A lot of the throws he makes only Rivers would attempt.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;958153]Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.[/quote]

I'm shocked...that kind of clear logic didn't crash the site :)

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;958169]A lot of the throws he makes only Rivers would attempt.[/QUOTE]

I see, but rivers really has been bad last two seasons

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;958155]And for the record, I'm not sure any hot coaching candidate would turn down the ability to coach RG3. If he did, we wouldn't want him anyway.[/quote]

We definitely wouldn't want him because he'd have to be an idiot.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;958167]So, to hell with scope. I'd take Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher tomorrow. I'd take Parcells tomorrow too. Outside the legacy coaches you just have to look around the league at teams that are getting it right.[/quote]Aren't you a little nervous that big picture, we'd be making the same mistake there we did with Shanahan.

I think you have to get someone unproven. Not Zorn-level unproven, but maybe Todd Bowles unproven?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;958167]Well, it's pretty hard to limit the scope to ending one regime, but not think about what replaces it.

Somebody made a pretty brilliant observation that RG3 (alone) will attract coaching talent. I think Snyder should look at it this way. We have something very special to offer.

So, to hell with scope. I'd take Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher tomorrow. I'd take Parcells tomorrow too. Outside the legacy coaches you just have to look around the league at teams that are getting it right.[/quote]

You have a problem with "living off his overrated past" Shanahan, yet you'd instantly go after Cowher or Gruden?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;958203]You have a problem with "living off his overrated past" Shanahan, yet you'd instantly go after Cowher or Gruden?[/quote]

Yes, because they aren't two bit moron knuckleheaded egotistic sacks of dog shit that the rest of the league has read the book on and knows their moves 2 moves in advance, just running their teams into the ground for no reason. That's the problem with Shanny.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Why is this such a pressing issue after having one of the best offenses in the league and almost beating the NY Giants last week? Isn't everyone allowed a bad game?

There are two threads on this, but clearly the better question is should Haslett be fired. At least that question would make sense.