Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;225738]Is it just me or does anyone else have nightmarish flashbacks to Tom Carter when seeing Carlos Rogers? Anyone else remember TC? Highly touted first-round pick back in '93. Supposed to be the heir apparent to Darrell Green as the next great Redskins CB. Man, what a waste he was.

I really hope the same doesn't end up being the case for Rogers[/QUOTE]

I remember Tom Carter, but after his initial contract was up, he signed with Chicago and was out of football right after that. I think it was only a matter of time before this front office f***ed up a top ten pick.

Hindsight's always 20/20, but to think that Demarcus Ware and Shawn Merriman were still there at #9 ... sickening.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=hesscl34;226126]The good news is that The East is all in the same boat - excpet for the Eagles... We need to win going forward or we are out of the playoffs...[/quote]

Will someone please HIT THE PANIC BUTTON!! SOMEONE?!?!?

If there was such a thing, now is the time to press it, not when it's too late.

The season is NOT over.. it's not cooked......yet.

However, we HAVE to get this team turned around RIGHT HERE!
If we want a chance to grab a wildcard at 10-6, we have to go 8-2! (assuming loss @indy). There is no time for working things out or giving things time to gel. GOTO PLAN B RIGHT NOW. Saunders needs to move pass this shuffle play offense thats now obviously been over exposed on film for too many weeks. ....And if he needs to make player changes to get his REAL offense executed then by ALL means get it done. This is no time to hold onto player's feelings and friendships. That time was on opening day when its "all good". WAKEUP!! RED ALERT!! MAN YOUR BATTLE STATIONS!! Its all about survival now.

We need to get aggressive on offense AND defense. ATTACK ATTACK LIKE APACHES... Set the tempo, hit someone in the mouth, and then hit em AGAIN. We're playing scared AGAIN on both sides of the ball.. These players NEED TO GET MAD.. I see a bunch of pouters, and excuse makers in the lockeroom.

Someone better do "it" NOW because we are a handful of losses away from being out of the hunt, and there's still alot of games left!!

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;225752]Still too early to panic about Rogers.[/QUOTE]

Cornerback is one of those positions that you basically know what you've got right off the bat. It's a very instinctive position that shouldn't take much time to adjust to the NFL.

Look at it this way, we knew with Champ and Smoot pretty quickly what we had. If at this point Rogers is still "learning the ropes" then we've likely seen the best he has to offer.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Oakland Red;226184][url=http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/09/SPG6BLLF1H1.DTL]Harris leads 49ers' defensive attack with three interceptions[/url]

Walt Harris is tearing it up in SF; he got three interceptions on Sunday and is a team captain....clearly we gave up on him too soon.[/QUOTE]

I agree, he got burned on a few last year, and the hatred for him was unrelenting. I never understood it. Sure like to have him back.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;226187]Cornerback is one of those positions that you basically know what you've got right off the bat. It's a very instinctive position that shouldn't take much time to adjust to the NFL.

Look at it this way, we knew with Champ and Smoot pretty quickly what we had. If at this point Rogers is still "learning the ropes" then we've likely seen the best he has to offer.[/quote]

I really disagree.

Corner is one of the toughest positions to come in to as a rookie, especially in a defense like this that asks so much from the position.

Smoot struggled early on as well.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;226187]Cornerback is one of those positions that you basically know what you've got right off the bat. It's a very instinctive position that shouldn't take much time to adjust to the NFL.

Look at it this way, we knew with Champ and Smoot pretty quickly what we had. If at this point Rogers is still "learning the ropes" then we've likely seen the best he has to offer.[/QUOTE]

I think it'd be different if Rogers was lining up on the other side of Springs, instead of Wright or Rumph. I mean Bailey lined up opposite Green/Sanders and then Smoot lined up opposite Champ

Not saying Rogers doesn't need to step up his game but it makes a big difference

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;226203]I really disagree.

Corner is one of the toughest positions to come in to as a rookie, especially in a defense like this that asks so much from the position.

Smoot struggled early on as well.[/QUOTE]

I guess we'll agree to disagree then. Because I maintain that with corners, you generally know what you've got as soon as they take the field. Smoot wasn't a shutdown corner, but a solid #2 -- and he was better than any cornerback we have right now, that's a certainty.

Rogers might be a decent nickel, but that's about it. After 17 games, I think he's proven that.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;226206]I think it'd be different if Rogers was lining up on the other side of Springs, instead of Wright or Rumph. I mean Bailey lined up opposite Green/Sanders and then Smoot lined up opposite Champ[/QUOTE]

Right, but at that time, the defense stuck our best corners on the best receivers. Gregg Williams makes it very clear that there is no such structure with his D -- so even if Rogers is sometimes lined up against the best, or a #2 or #3, his results are the same no matter who's on the opposite side of the field.

If Springs were here, teams would go after Rogers even more so -- and they'd have even more reason to do that when Gregg Williams himself admits that sometimes the rookie can be lined up against his opponents best wideout.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;226207]I guess we'll agree to disagree then. Because I maintain that with corners, you generally know what you've got as soon as they take the field. Smoot wasn't a shutdown corner, but a solid #2 -- and he was better than any cornerback we have right now, that's a certainty.

Rogers might be a decent nickel, but that's about it. After 17 games, I think he's proven that.[/quote]

Let's revisit this a year from now.

I still say it's too early to write him off.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

I think it is a little early to label Rogers as a bust and a decent nickel. With the injuries to Springs and Prioleau, he has been thrust into the #1 corner and at this point in his career, he is not at that level. He is a decent #2. He needs to capitalize on his opportunities, i.e. catch the damned ball. He is in position, he just not finishing off the play.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

The secondary is giving up too many big plays on third down. You can point out individual collapses, but its the entire unit. The defensive line is not helping matters either, no pressure on the quarterback makes it easy for opposing quarterbacks to find open receivers.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[QUOTE=hail_2_da_skins;226239]The secondary is giving up too many big plays on third down. You can point out individual collapses, but its the entire unit. The defensive line is not helping matters either, no pressure on the quarterback makes it easy for opposing quarterbacks to find open receivers.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you there, but lets remember: There is no #1 and #2 corner with Gregg Williams' defense. Sometimes Rogers is covering Terrell Owens, other times he's on Patrick Crayton. Williams will be the first to admit that.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

as an athlete, there comes a time where you need to step up and accept the challenge, or lay down on the porch like a sad puppy dog. it is about time for rogers to step up, and not everyone keep making excuses for him. its not entirely his fault, but when in man to man, he needs to tighten up

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;226248]I agree with you there, but lets remember: There is no #1 and #2 corner with Gregg Williams' defense. Sometimes Rogers is covering Terrell Owens, other times he's on Patrick Crayton. Williams will be the first to admit that.[/quote]

that's a lie made to appease the ego of fred smoot. springs just went along with it cause he knew better.

Re: How bad is our defense?
 

honestly, corner takes a while to learn. ade turned from absolutely horribly worthless to below average in just three years.

rogers is an okay #2. he's not a burner though and matching him up with terry glenn isn't in his favor. he also drops easy ints, which makes that guy mad.