Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=wilsowilso;818077]We need a really big step forward from the O line this year.

Speaking of the big boys in front of Beck or Grossman did anyone see the Trent Williams interview today?

That guy is really articulate and it seems like his head is in the right place for him to continue to grow and grow into a top flight player. Hopefully.[/quote]

I'm very impresed with TW. The knock on him has been discipline. So the fact that he worked out all off-season on his own (well with Vince Young and Andian Peterson), and basically said "I don't need teammates or coaches breathing down my back. I'll be ready" and he is is a testament, I think, to how much he's grown.

I know people want to say well what about our OL? Why are we ignoring it. But really, there's only so much depth you can have at OL because those guys don't play teams. And in the past year we've added Williams, Brown, Kory L., Eric Cook, Selvish Caper, and Chris Chester (among a few others). That's a good amount of youth and guys entering their prime. With the possible exception of Jammal Brown, depending on your view.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;818110]I don't know if this has been posted yet but this doesn't give me a shred of confidence that our offense won't remain stagnant.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/john-becks-saturday-practice/2011/07/31/gIQApL8hmI_blog.html]John Beck’s Saturday practice - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

Yeah Beck's struggling, was that a surprise? It will take time and if he manages to develop a rhythm with the receivers that will happen less and less. Beck is not the savior and is a stop gap at best.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I thought I asked it somewhere but really would like to hear how Capers is looking. Anyone heard/seen anything about him?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I heard he struggled on Saturday, but that's second hand info so I don't really know.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

heard beck looked good,but was struggling on the long throws.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I sure hope Beck does rise to the occasion and freaks us out by becoming maybe a Joe Flacco type, meaning a good game manager, making few if any mistakes. I can't see him really lighting it up for some massive passing yards, but it would be nice. We have a stud WR corp on paper now. I would like to see Paul really step it up and win a spot. I would like to have a set of wideouts that will be around for awhile. Get a new posse going!!!!!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;818156]Yeah Beck's struggling, was that a surprise? It will take time and if he manages to develop a rhythm with the receivers that will happen less and less. Beck is not the savior and is a stop gap at best.[/quote]


Exactly. Stop gap at best. Not trying to overuse the Frerotte thing, but that is what you get with Beck, if that. Beck might be decent enough to be behind center and execute a basic offense, but that is it. He might be good enough to get us at 8-8, but no playoffs. I think our FO knew this QB class was overrated and decided to take a pass on Mallet and Locker. I don't think we will be lucky to get Luck next draft, but there will be fine QBs just the same. Luck is good as gone unless we really suck, but good guys like Dan Persa, Kellen Moore, Nick Foles, etc will be out there. I put Dan Persa out there because I think we know Luck will be taken, along with Moore probably. Persa and Foles should be there for us if we have a mid number pick in the first round.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/shanahan-beck-doubters-dont-study-film/2011/08/01/gIQArAjynI_blog.html]Shanahan: Beck doubters don’t study film - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;818254][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/shanahan-beck-doubters-dont-study-film/2011/08/01/gIQArAjynI_blog.html"]Shanahan: Beck doubters don’t study film - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/URL][/quote]


Okie, I think the comments posted after the article says it all. The one guy asked did Shanny watch the tape of McNabb, another said the same of Clemens. To think the Tuna or Harbaugh doesn't know QB talent is a stretch. Sorry dude, but I think Shanny is trying to spin this to not admit the season might be a long one. I don't think we are going to take a fall for Luck, but we are going for mid round pick again. We are rebuilding still and will be for another season or two. We still have depth/talent issues at DB.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

To think we ditched probably better QB prospects over the past few seasons(Brennan, Daniel) to end up with Beck and Clemens is rather sobering.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

If the philosophy for this team "creating competition at every position", then why isn't there any competition at the QB position?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=diehard;818326]If the philosophy for this team "creating competition at every position", then why isn't there any competition at the QB position?[/quote]

There's plenty! Beck v. Grossman v. Chappell. I mean how many quarterbacks do you need competing to qualify it as a competition?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Ah yeah I forgot how Colt and Chase have tearing up the league since they left.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Why do you hate Kellen Clemens?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=diehard;818326]If the philosophy for this team "creating competition at every position", then why isn't there any competition at the QB position?[/quote]
Why? Easy, Shanny and co didn't like the Qbs that were available in the draft, and opted for another DE to LB experiment. I think they should have just gone with Ponder, then drafted Nic Foles or Dan Persa, or whoever will be the best QB they could get from the SEC in 2012 to get some decent young depth in there. If Rexy gets hurt we might be in for a crappy season.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;818333]Ah yeah I forgot how Colt and Chase have tearing up the league since they left.[/quote]

They seemed to have more upside than Beck. How can you be the 3rd string QB on Miami? I mean 3rd behind Henne? Chad Henne? Chase Daniel would have done better than Henne. Don't get me going Matty!!!!!!! I might just have to start my bbring back you know who campaign!!!!!!!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Just wait and see Gus, JB may turn out to be the surprise of the 2011 season.. And Rex played decent last year and knows the system. I would rather have Orton but I'm not going to just hope these guys fail in order to get a High pick in '12

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;818334]Why do you hate Kellen Clemens?[/quote]

Mwah? I don't hate him, just innocently forgot that he existed and is under contract for the Redskins. It's easy to do that when you think he has a snowball's chance in hell of starting for this team. But for competition purposes, I'll include him.

Beck v. Grossman (once he resigns) v. Clemens v. Chappell.

There you happy?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

REALLY? We're bringing up Colt Brennan as being a better prospect then John Beck? REALLY? The second round draft pick who was highly touted coming out of college, versus the system quarterback who put up huge numbers in a "what the hell is the run game" Hawaii offense that Jim Zorn had?

If we're sitting here talking about a guy who would be somewhere if anyone saw anything in him, here we have Colt Brennan. A guy who, if Mike saw anything in him, could possibly be in John Beck's position, who's greatest accomplishment was a couple good preseason games against 3rd and 4th stringers, who's hype was never justified by his talents.

Colt Brennan wasn't some 7th round gem. He was a guy who'd maybe be a halfway decent back-up at best, as evidenced by the fact that after he got cut here, he pretty much never stepped foot on the field when the Raiders gave him a look and no team was in a rush to sign him after he was cut there.

I hope he's okay after his accident, and wish him luck with the Hartford Colonials whenever the UFL gets it's act together, but Colt was never going to be an NFL starter. Physically he had what Mike looks for; big arm, mobility. But Mike STILL didn't want him.

And Mike had nothing to do with Chase Daniel getting cut, and he was largely cut because of Colt being on the roster and him being a weird fan favorite despite doing jack squat. Ain't that about a bitch.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;818340]Just wait and see Gus, JB may turn out to be the surprise of the 2011 season.. And Rex played decent last year and knows the system. I would rather have Orton but I'm not going to just hope these guys fail in order to get a High pick in '12[/quote]


Dude, I want Beck to make me eat crow. I am cheering for the guy, but this situation harkens back to when we were asked to suspend disbelief when Spurrier brought in Wuerffel and Mathews. 3rd string QB on the Dolphins, who were desperate for any warm body that could sling a football, and I am supposed to think this guy is a total gamer now?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I'm getting more nervous about the Beck experiment everyday. I mean I know he's doing everything he can control in terms of preperation and everything else but if I wasn't a Skins fan I would be shaking my head at the prospect of Beck as a viable starter. Shanahan's track record is the only glue keeping this together.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;818343][B]REALLY? We're bringing up Colt Brennan as being a better prospect then John Beck? REALLY?[/B] The second round draft pick who was highly touted coming out of college, versus the system quarterback who put up huge numbers in a "what the hell is the run game" Hawaii offense that Jim Zorn had?

If we're sitting here talking about a guy who would be somewhere if anyone saw anything in him, here we have Colt Brennan. A guy who, if Mike saw anything in him, could possibly be in John Beck's position, who's greatest accomplishment was a couple good preseason games against 3rd and 4th stringers, who's hype was never justified by his talents.

Colt Brennan wasn't some 7th round gem. He was a guy who'd maybe be a halfway decent back-up at best, as evidenced by the fact that after he got cut here, he pretty much never stepped foot on the field when the Raiders gave him a look and no team was in a rush to sign him after he was cut there.

I hope he's okay after his accident, and wish him luck with the Hartford Colonials whenever the UFL gets it's act together, but Colt was never going to be an NFL starter. Physically he had what Mike looks for; big arm, mobility. But Mike STILL didn't want him.

And Mike had nothing to do with Chase Daniel getting cut, and he was largely cut because of Colt being on the roster and him being a weird fan favorite despite doing jack squat. Ain't that about a bitch.[/quote]

:laughing- Love that opening line NLC. Good job. And great post.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818339]They seemed to have more upside than Beck. How can you be the 3rd string QB on Miami? I mean 3rd behind Henne? Chad Henne?[/quote]

Seemed to, but where are they now?

About as relevant as your constant Gus references.

Meanwhile Henne is still a starter.

How can you be 3rd string in Miami? Easy. He got caught up in a regime change. Parcells drafted Henne and brought in Pennington. Not too hard to figure out really.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818345]Dude, I want Beck to make me eat crow. I am cheering for the guy, but this situation harkens back to when we were asked to suspend disbelief when Spurrier brought in Wuerffel and Mathews. 3rd string QB on the Dolphins, who were desperate for any warm body that could sling a football, and I am supposed to think this guy is a total gamer now?[/quote]

Well lol I agree to a degree BUT he's got some skills, Big arm and good athlete. Remember Tony Romo came out of no where also.. It's possible for him to have a good career under MS/KS.. In fact some writers have said he's just as good as Kolb as far as attributes.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;818343]REALLY? We're bringing up Colt Brennan as being a better prospect then John Beck? REALLY? The second round draft pick who was highly touted coming out of college, versus the system quarterback who put up huge numbers in a "what the hell is the run game" Hawaii offense that Jim Zorn had?

If we're sitting here talking about a guy who would be somewhere if anyone saw anything in him, here we have Colt Brennan. A guy who, if Mike saw anything in him, could possibly be in John Beck's position, who's greatest accomplishment was a couple good preseason games against 3rd and 4th stringers, who's hype was never justified by his talents.

Colt Brennan wasn't some 7th round gem. He was a guy who'd maybe be a halfway decent back-up at best, as evidenced by the fact that after he got cut here, he pretty much never stepped foot on the field when the Raiders gave him a look and no team was in a rush to sign him after he was cut there.

I hope he's okay after his accident, and wish him luck with the Hartford Colonials whenever the UFL gets it's act together, but Colt was never going to be an NFL starter. Physically he had what Mike looks for; big arm, mobility. But Mike STILL didn't want him.

And Mike had nothing to do with Chase Daniel getting cut, and he was largely cut because of Colt being on the roster and him being a weird fan favorite despite doing jack squat. Ain't that about a bitch.[/quote]

Who said anything about Shanny cutting Chase. I just said I thought Chase and Colt were brighter prospects when we got them. We did draft them, so the organization thought they had something to offer afresh. Beck is a journeyman 3rd stringer, who couldn't make backup on the sad ass Dolphins. I am supposed to have renewed confidence in this?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;818350]Well lol I agree to a degree BUT he's got some skills, Big arm and good athlete. Remember Tony Romo came out of no where also.. It's possible for him to have a good career under MS/KS.. In fact some writers have said he's just as good as Kolb as far as attributes.[/quote]


I hope you are right, but I will continue to be skeptical til preseason starts and I see him play. Right now I just think it is another hype job on an average journeyman QB.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818351]Who said anything about Shanny cutting Chase. I just said I thought Chase and Colt were brighter prospects when we got them. We did draft them, so the organization thought they had something to offer afresh. Beck is a journeyman 3rd stringer, who couldn't make backup on the sad ass Dolphins. I am supposed to have renewed confidence in this?[/quote]


Sometimes we as diehard fans have blinders on and I agree I'm not all hyped about John Beck either, or Rex for that matter.
I just hope our Run Game will be classic MS style and the QB can make some accurate passes deep here and there.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Come testify at the Chapell! The Chappell of Ben!!!! Championship!!!!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818353]I hope you are right, but I will continue to be skeptical til preseason starts and I see him play. Right now I just think it is another hype job on an average journeyman QB.[/quote]

I still don't get how starting John Beck can be looked at as a hype job. What hype? There is none. Nobody is hyping him up like the next Kurt Warner. Everywhere I look, I see people trashing Shanny's decision. That's not hype. That's negativity. And even the remotely optimistic people are looking at Beck like there's a slight chance he could turn out to be good, and when I say good, I mean, okay game manager, not next undrafted qb to throw for 40 touchdowns when he finally got the opportunity. And if he does bad, he'll get benched. And we'll ride out the season, and in all likelihood, draft our franchise qb in the first round of next year's draft.

Edit: Example #1. Dan Graziano, who has become my new favorite blogger on ESPN since he replaced Matt Mosley, wrote this on Friday.

[quote=Dan Graziano]
Washington was the busiest team in the division all week until Friday, when they didn't make a move of major consequence. [B]Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan talked about what he sees as the looming quarterback competition between John Beck and Rex Grossman, which kind of reminded everybody that all the other moves the Redskins have been making could have a hard time helping too much in 2011...[/B]
[/quote]

It doesn't take a genius to know that he's saying for all the good moves we're making, qb is probably going to hold us back this year. And that's the prevailing theme amongst writers, bloggers, and tv pundits everywhere.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Sometimes we have reverse blinders on too and refuse to believe we're capable of doing anything right.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Look at it this way, Shanahan had plenty of chances to upgrade the QB spot if he wanted to. He could have drafted someone, traded for someone, or picked up a free agent. So why is he rolling with Beck or Rex? I'd love to hear a legit response. And don't even bring up tanking for Luck.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;818359]Sometimes we have reverse blinders on too and refuse to believe we're capable of doing anything right.[/quote]


No doubt my man, I'm just going to trust MS

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

look at it this way, this team is much improved at almost ev position and we won 6 games in 2010, and actually should have won 7-8

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;818361]Look at it this way, Shanahan had plenty of chances to upgrade the QB spot if he wanted to. He could have drafted someone, traded for someone, or picked up a free agent. So why is he rolling with Beck or Rex? I'd love to hear a legit response. And don't even bring up tanking for Luck.[/quote]


Again he made Jake Plummer and Brian Griese look great

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;818355]Sometimes we as diehard fans have blinders on and I agree I'm not all hyped about John Beck either, or Rex for that matter.
I just hope our Run Game will be classic MS style and the QB can make some accurate passes deep here and there.[/quote]


I am not closed to the thought Beck can turn it around and Shanny can mentor him or give him the shot he needs. Right now, I am going by the guy's history of being 3rd string everywhere he goes. Matty made a point on how both Chase and Colt haven't made a mark after we let them loose, but they were drafted by us and never could unseat JC, but we did think highly enough of them to draft them. At the time we drafted them, most of us were enthusiastic about each of them and were begging for them to get a shot at starting. Alas it all was for not, but with Beck, he was a FA journeyman QB, when we acquired him. All my Lions fan friends are asking me WTF? You just have to hope the guy works hard and sees this at a shot at redemption.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

In all fairness Lions fans can't talk about any team.. They haven't won a playoff game in like 40 years

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Technically Chase wasn't drafted and Beck wasn't a FA journeyman QB

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;818361]Look at it this way, Shanahan had plenty of chances to upgrade the QB spot if he wanted to. He could have drafted someone, traded for someone, or picked up a free agent. So why is he rolling with Beck or Rex? I'd love to hear a legit response. And don't even bring up tanking for Luck.[/quote]


I never said we were tanking for Luck. I think we are going to get the 15th pick or something around there. I hope we get a QB that has real potential. I will be watching Foles and Persa this season. I think that is the caliber guy we will be getting, unless Kellen Moore somehow falls to us. That guy has a cannon!!!!!!! That kid from Tennessee is pretty good also.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818366]I am not closed to the thought Beck can turn it around and Shanny can mentor him or give him the shot he needs. Right now, I am going by the guy's history of being 3rd string everywhere he goes. Matty made a point on how both Chase and Colt haven't made a mark after we let them loose, but they were drafted by us and never could unseat JC, but we did think highly enough of them to draft them. At the time we drafted them, [B]most of us were enthusiastic about each of them and were begging for them to get a shot at starting[/B]. Alas it all was for not, but with Beck, he was a FA journeyman QB, when we acquired him. All my Lions fan friends are asking me WTF? You just have to hope the guy works hard and sees this at a shot at redemption.[/quote]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I definitely wasn't on the "start a 6th rounder or an undrafted free agent qb over Jason Campbell" bandwagon. I was on the "fix the offensive line" bandwagon though.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=mooby;818358]I still don't get how starting John Beck can be looked at as a hype job. What hype? There is none. Nobody is hyping him up like the next Kurt Warner. Everywhere I look, I see people trashing Shanny's decision. That's not hype. That's negativity. And even the remotely optimistic people are looking at Beck like there's a slight chance he could turn out to be good, and when I say good, I mean, okay game manager, not next undrafted qb to throw for 40 touchdowns when he finally got the opportunity. And if he does bad, he'll get benched. And we'll ride out the season, and in all likelihood, draft our franchise qb in the first round of next year's draft.

Edit: Example #1. Dan Graziano, who has become my new favorite blogger on ESPN since he replaced Matt Mosley, wrote this on Friday.



It doesn't take a genius to know that he's saying for all the good moves we're making, qb is probably going to hold us back this year. And that's the prevailing theme amongst writers, bloggers, and tv pundits everywhere.[/quote]

Possible hype job due to the fact the guy hasn't cracked second string with 3 teams and now all of a sudden he is going to actually compete for a starting position. Could happen, but I wouldn't bet money on it. You are asking for another Kurt Warner story to occur, and that might be a little much at this point for me to swallow.