Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mechanix544;958153]Ok, so circular logic begs me to ask the question that if we weren't all that bad, why in the hell did it need rebuilding so horribly. Did we fall off so much from 2008 to 2009? I think the VAST majority of people on this board have been caught saying that the team Shanahan took over in 2009 was quite possibly the most atrocious squad ever to don the B&G. The year prior to Shanahan, our defense was ranked top 10, and while not good, we still churned out 22nd in the league in offense. The point is that he hasn't done much with 3 years here to instill any sort of confidence. RG3, 110 out of 100 people could hit on that pick. Shanahan is coaching here based SOLELY on previous accolades (from the 97 -98 seasons). And it shows.[/quote]

We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;958241]We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.[/QUOTE]

Good post I agree

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=mooby;958219]Yes, because they aren't two bit moron knuckleheaded egotistic sacks of dog shit that the rest of the league has read the book on and knows their moves 2 moves in advance, just running their teams into the ground for no reason. That's the problem with Shanny.[/quote]

........Is there nothing more persuasive than well founded, empirically derived logic?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=ethat001;958235]Why is this such a pressing issue after having one of the best offenses in the league and almost beating the NY Giants last week? Isn't everyone allowed a bad game?

There are two threads on this, but clearly the better question is should Haslett be fired. At least that question would make sense.[/quote]

I don't believe that Shanahan should be fired or that he's been "totally outcoached all season" or that this isn't a "serious football team" or any of that other nonsense. But it's fine if people want to have speculative discussions. I mean why else be on a message board

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;958203]You have a problem with "living off his overrated past" Shanahan, yet you'd instantly go after Cowher or Gruden?[/quote]

Not quite go after. If any three of Cowher, Parcells or Gruden called the Redskins to say they wanted to come back from "retirement" and coach this team, with this QB, I think you talk to them. With Mike, it was always about his ego, but I think his coming out of retirement had more to do with being fired from Denver. That's more like spite, and spite only goes so far. Parcells has that rep as a guy with a big ego. I never heard Cowher or Gruden described that way, though you'd know more about it to be sure. What I think is that those guys love football. I think Mike's still in the game because of his ego and spite, and I remember saying that before Snyder hired him.

But GTripp could be right about finding that rising talent, future Lombardi winner too.

And for the love of all that's decent, please don't try to put Kyle in that category.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;958241]We did fall off in 2009, ending far below .500.

Here comes 2010.

2010 we had bum McNabb
Then we had INT crazy Rexy.
And the Beck experiment.

So we basically didn't have a QB.

Then we had injured plague Portis who was on the downward trek of his career and didn't even play a full season in 2009 or 2010.
Then Larry Johnson who did squat.
Ryan Torain who was the shining spot that year.

We had Moss, our one constant.
Devin Thomas - Bum
Joey Galloway - Was way too old
Roydell Williams - Who??
Armstrong and Banks. Alright. They're not bad.

Our line wasn't horrible or too different from how it is now, except now we don't have 2 liabilities, aka Heyer and Rabach.

Our defense honestly, isn't very different from 2010, there are some major names missing from our current team (Rogers, Landry, HAYNESWORTH).

Which leads me to believe that there is a defensive coaching issue, rather than a head coach issue.

Our offense blew in 2010, we were 6-10, ranked 25th on offense.
Blew in 2011, 5-11, ranked 26th on offense.
Now in 2012, we're currently 3-5 but 5th in offense.

They've done nothing but get better. We added skill, youth and depth. Improvement!

In regards to total defense, yards per game:
2009 we were ranked 10
2010 - 31st
2011 - 13th

And we all know how this year has been.

People are so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater, if there's a problem here, it's Haslett, not Shanahan. We are also injury plagued, with little defensive depth.

I'm not a Shanahan apologist by any means, but I don't think he's the real glaring problem here.[/quote]How is letting Shanahan pick the next defensive coordinator any different than letting Bruce Allen pick the next head coach, which people are terrified of?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I don't know how anyone could disagree that getting rid of Haslett would be an improvement. Does anyone on this board think he's done a good job?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Firing Shanahan for performance (of the team) is no different than firing Haslett for performance (of the defense), except that it actually signifies the first meaningful step in building a winner, instead of window-dressing for the sake of window-dressing.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I damn sure wouldn't let Mike pick the DC. Seen that movie.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;958252]How is letting Shanahan pick the next defensive coordinator any different than letting Bruce Allen pick the next head coach, which people are terrified of?[/quote]

New head coach usually means there are more changes underway. I imagine if Mike goes, Kyle goes, which means a new offensive scheme to learn. I doubt Haslett sees another year here after this debacle, so we may or may not be switching back to 4-3 which if we did, means a new defensive scheme to learn and 3-4 with the Skins is all some of these guys know.

Considering how awful the defense has been I see defensive overhaul in the future along with depth signings.

So basically we're back in complete rebuilding mode. Again.

I'd rather them fire Haslett, fill in the gaps on defense with the draft and free agency, see how the Shanahan's fair next year, then take another look at him coaching here.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

We have this same thread every year... Did any of you really think we would have a winning season this year? ..... Oh yeah, many of you did. Hate to break it to you but it will take a few more years for Shanny to put all the pieces together. Lets not forget our injuries are serious. Seems almost all the key players are out. Next season if healthy, we will break .500 and with the acquisition of a few more key players (secondary sucks ass) we will start to gel. Cant start talking about firing coaches at this point. Thats just asinine. I'm actually real surprised of some of the guys even considering the matter. Seems out of character for some...

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;958251]Not quite go after. If any three of Cowher, Parcells or Gruden called the Redskins to say they wanted to come back from "retirement" and coach this team, with this QB, I think you talk to them. With Mike, it was always about his ego, but I think his coming out of retirement had more to do with being fired from Denver. That's more like spite, and spite only goes so far. Parcells has that rep as a guy with a big ego. I never heard Cowher or Gruden described that way, though you'd know more about it to be sure. What I think is that those guys love football. I think Mike's still in the game because of his ego and spite, and I remember saying that before Snyder hired him.

But GTripp could be right about finding that rising talent, future Lombardi winner too.

And for the love of all that's decent, please don't try to put Kyle in that category.[/quote]

Oh I see. So Mike Shanahan doesn't like football really, he's just got a big ego?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I voted no but, if he doesn't make change(s) with the defense's inability to to stop opposing teams and the mental lapses of the team as a whole then yes, he needs to go.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=RGIII;958265]I voted no but, if he doesn't make change(s) with the defense's inability to to stop opposing teams and the mental lapses of the team as a whole then yes, he needs to go.[/quote]So...youre waiting until after the season, basically.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;958266]So...youre waiting until after the season, basically.[/quote]

'Tripp something has to be done ASAP.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

As we complain incessantly of how poorly the defense has been, and how we need to change the coach despite currently having one of the more prolific offenses in the league, consider this:

Before last year, no team had ever surrendered more than 4600 yards in a season. Two teams broke history last year for the most passing yards allowed in a season:

1) Green Bay Packers - 4796 yards (record 15-1)
2) New England Patriots - 4704 yards (record 13-3)

[URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10812237"]Worst Pass Defenses in NFL History[/URL]

Point is, as has been said time and time again -- [U]we can win with a bad defense[/U]. It's not ideal, but it can (and has) been done. Our offense continues to impress, and just had a bad game. Eventually we'll get Garcon back, and next year F.Davis. Our D will get Orakpo, Carriker, and a slew of likely defensive draft picks / FAs. If the D gets just a little bit better, we have a playoff caliber team. (Btw, I would still suggest that firing Haslett alone may be enough to make us better)

Our division is on the decline - DAllas / Eagles continue to underachieve, Romo/Vick will be gone in 2-3 years and I would suspect we will float to the top of the division along with NYG by then.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=RGIII;958273]'Tripp something has to be done ASAP.[/quote]
Dropping the HC mid-season.....ain't it....

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Hog1;958280]Dropping the HC mid-season.....ain't it....[/quote]

We can get Terry Robiskie back, since he's experienced in being an interim HC.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I voted Yes, fire him now...because I wanted to **** with the results :)

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

No. For me, you give him the 5 years. Somehow though he has to say what plan he has for the defense.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Hog1;958280]Dropping the HC mid-season.....ain't it....[/quote]

It's definitely not the answer but, Haslett or Raheem is. Players aren't getting the job done and thier jobs are safe because of injuries and the notion that the coaches aren't putting them in position (or playing them to thier strengths) in order to be successful. Somebody's head has to roll at this point. Why not Raheem's?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;958283]Somehow though he has to say what plan he has for the defense.[/quote]I thought it was sign other teams castoffs and make them play a rigid system?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Really?

Ridiculous thread.

I guess it is his fault that 6/7 projected starters ended up on IR/PUP or suspended this year. Not to mention RGIIIs #1 WR hasn't been on the field for several weeks.

If they pay half as much attention to the defense in the coming off season as they did the offense this past off season we will be right in the mix for a run next year.

This thing was a mess when he came aboard and just 2 and a half years into it things are looking bright. Now is not the time to blow it up again...cause that is what happens when you remove a HC. Systems change, schemes change, personnel change, coaches change...You really want to start this whole thing over now?

Not me, not now. See what it looks like two years from now and if we are still treading at .500, then yeah...time for a change.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;958288]Really?

Ridiculous thread.

I guess it is his fault that 6/7 projected starters ended up on IR/PUP or suspended this year. Not to mention RGIIIs #1 WR hasn't been on the field for several weeks.

If they pay half as much attention to the defense in the coming off season as they did the offense this past off season we will be right in the mix for a run next year.

This thing was a mess when he came aboard and just 2 and a half years into it things are looking bright. Now is not the time to blow it up again...cause that is what happens when you remove a HC. Systems change, schemes change, personnel change, coaches change...You really want to start this whole thing over now?

Not me, not now. See what it looks like two years from now and if we are still treading at .500, then yeah...time for a change.[/quote]Nothing is more ridiculous than waiting two years then doing what we should have done three years before.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Anyone have real proof Shanahan has a crazy ego?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

This is so "Romney vs Obama".

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Evilgrin;958293]Anyone have real proof Shanahan has a crazy ego?[/quote]

Have you read his book?

Safe to say you have to have a pretty big ego to be a great coach in this league. Not that it's a bad thing, I think it comes with the territory.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;958291]Nothing is more ridiculous than waiting two years then doing what we should have done three years before.[/quote]


Sorry bro, but firing Shanahan just isn't the answer right now.

The Offense is clicking pretty well, even with the injuries.

S Teams are average, at least it looks like we finally found a kicker.

I don't think it would hurt anything to make some serious changes on the Defense though. Hell it can't get much worse, so I would not be surprised to see some changes with the defensive coaching staff over the next couple weeks. That, I think is reasonable, if not probable...

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I'm glad the majority of fans haven't lost their heads just yet.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958295]Have you read his book?

Safe to say you have to have a pretty big ego to be a great coach in this league. Not that it's a bad thing, I think it comes with the territory.[/quote]

I meant crazy ego, as in maniacal like some here love to think.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958302]I'm glad the majority of fans haven't lost their heads just yet.[/quote]I think everyone has just institutionalized losing, at least to the point where it doesn't set off red flags anymore.

I don't know how else to explain what goes on. People seem to be really convinced that this is normal. Good for them, I guess.

Many and I mean many Dallas fans have called in for Garrett's head tonight. You think skins fans r bad today? Should hear some of these Dallas fans

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Sorry, I don't see red flags when a team loses on the road to Pittsburgh, or on the road to the defending SB Champs, or even at home to the only remaining undefeated team in the league. Yeah, we could have pulled out a few of the five we have lost, but we didn't. Largely, if not mostly due to our porous defense.

I think it is an understatement to say that the defense has underperformed this year, injuries or not. And I am a fan of some coaching changes on that side of the ball, but beyond that - don't F*** with it.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I have not posted in a loooooonnnngggg time, but I just could not resist after seeing this poll.

I know that the NFL is a "win now" league, but seriously? He started with garbage and has put a pretty good product on the field regardless of the current record. The team has so many issues that are out of his control that makes even the thought of his firing absolutely absurd. He took over a team with a so so defense and a terrible offense and has turned it into a team with a terrible defense and a good offense. On top of that the depth is much improved.

Offensively he has put together a pretty decent offensive line. He cleaned house at RB and drafted another 6th round gem. He has brought in a pleathora of recievers that are contributing in many ways. It can still use some work (especially after today), but we all knew that WR was an issue that would have to be addressed next year. Finally and most importantly he drafted the best QB that we have seen in franchise history (no offense to Baugh, Jorgensen, Theisman, or Rypien).

On defense they switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4. They drafted Orakpo and Kerrigan. They put a pretty decent squad together. The problem lies in the fact that we have three major injuries and a suspension that have hampered the defense to this point in the season. Those things are out of his control. I think that barring those things this defense would have looked much different this season. We'll get them back next year. It's no secret that our corners are average at best, but thir weaknesses would have been covered up by a healthy defense at the rest of the positions.

On special teams it seems as if they have finally struck gold at kicker and returner.

Bottom line, the team is much more improved now from when Shannahan took over the team. The team is still in the hunt. They have been in all but 1 game this season. It is realistic that they could finish around .500 or better. I am excited for the rest of the season and I would love to see what additions they make at WR and Corner over the next two years. It is comming together and it is visible, I would love for us to stay patient. I realize that it is a tall order in DC, but I truly believe in the direction that this team is heading.

Edit: I gave them credit for Orakpo and that was incorrect, but I still stand by my statements otherwise.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Angry where you been?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958324]Angry where you been?[/quote]

Long story, but in short "Church".

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;958288]Really?

Ridiculous thread.

I guess it is his fault that 6/7 projected starters ended up on IR/PUP or suspended this year. Not to mention RGIIIs #1 WR hasn't been on the field for several weeks.

If they pay half as much attention to the defense in the coming off season as they did the offense this past off season we will be right in the mix for a run next year.

This thing was a mess when he came aboard and just 2 and a half years into it things are looking bright. Now is not the time to blow it up again...cause that is what happens when you remove a HC. Systems change, schemes change, personnel change, coaches change...You really want to start this whole thing over now?

Not me, not now. See what it looks like two years from now and if we are still treading at .500, then yeah...time for a change.[/quote]

Huh? [I]Still [/I]treading at .500? That was Zorn, not Shanny :silly:

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Listen guys we suck and to be honest Panthers are 1-5 and guess what ? we usually lose to those type of team with a awful homefield advantage . We also do horrible against mobile QB's so get ready for us to lose again.

I mean week 1 was nice and wee2 kinda destroyed my heart.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Nice thread... fire them all..... lol

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Next week they win.... All RG III show.