Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

What...the...deuce. When did we all "realize" WR would have to be a need after this season? I mean, that statement, if true, indicates Shanny's overall failure here. We JUST spent millions of cap dollars on WRs, at an enormous opportunity cost to boot. And now we need to go get more?! Hellllllloooo Vinny! ;)

Our WR corp isn't the problem. Outside our starting safeties and right tackle, the roster isn't the problem even accounting for the injuries.

And can we stop pretending legitimately good teams don't lose lots of players to injury (but still win anyway)? Bellichick lost Brady for basically a whole season and that team would smoke our gig 9 out of 10 games...and you know it whether you admit. The Steelers were missing their best player on defense (arguably the best player on the team) and running their 3rd string back.

I mean, the excuses for Mike's inability to wins pro football games in this division are spectacular.

But hey, we're a good team, we just don't win lol. It reminds me of the comedians you see joke about deferred success or delayed success in K-12 schools hehe.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;958336]What...the...deuce. When did we all "realize" WR would have to be a need after this season? I mean, that statement, if true, indicates Shanny's overall failure here. We JUST spent millions of cap dollars on WRs, at an enormous opportunity cost to boot. And now we need to go get more?! Hellllllloooo Vinny! ;)

Our WR corp isn't the problem. Outside our starting safeties and right tackle, the roster isn't the problem even accounting for the injuries.

And can we stop pretending legitimately good teams don't lose lots of players to injury (but still win anyway)? Bellichick lost Brady for basically a whole season and that team would smoke our gig 9 out of 10 games...and you know it whether you admit. The Steelers were missing their best player on defense (arguably the best player on the team) and running their 3rd string back.

I mean, the excuses for Mike's inability to wins pro football games in this division are spectacular.

But hey, we're a good team, we just don't win lol. It reminds me of the comedians you see joke about deferred success or delayed success in K-12 schools hehe.[/quote]
Shanny is done i hope he leaves out he got us RG3 and Morris and a nice LT but other than that we can be sooo so much better on defense and weapon wise I think a lil better.

I agree. Shanny has one more year maybe but if we went 5-11 im done with him.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;958336]What...the...deuce. When did we all "realize" WR would have to be a need after this season? I mean, that statement, if true, indicates Shanny's overall failure here. We JUST spent millions of cap dollars on WRs, at an enormous opportunity cost to boot. And now we need to go get more?! Hellllllloooo Vinny! ;)[/quote]

What are you talking about?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;958336]What...the...deuce. When did we all "realize" WR would have to be a need after this season? I mean, that statement, if true, indicates Shanny's overall failure here. We JUST spent millions of cap dollars on WRs, at an enormous opportunity cost to boot. And now we need to go get more?! Hellllllloooo Vinny! ;)

Our WR corp isn't the problem. Outside our starting safeties and right tackle, the roster isn't the problem even accounting for the injuries.

And can we stop pretending legitimately good teams don't lose lots of players to injury (but still win anyway)? Bellichick lost Brady for basically a whole season and that team would smoke our gig 9 out of 10 games...and you know it whether you admit. The Steelers were missing their best player on defense (arguably the best player on the team) and running their 3rd string back.

I mean, the excuses for Mike's inability to wins pro football games in this division are spectacular.

But hey, we're a good team, we just don't win lol. It reminds me of the comedians you see joke about deferred success or delayed success in K-12 schools hehe.[/quote]

I do not know about anyone else, but I was under the impression that everyone understood that while we brought in Garcon and Morgan that it would not be the end all to WR woes. Quantity never compensates for quality and I thought it was very apparent that those additions (save Garcon) would more than likely be a band aid until the position could be addressed through the draft or with better FA's. At the same time I do not blame them for our losses, but they did play a big part today.

The rest of the losses are due to a vulnerable defense that has been hampered by injuries and a suspension. Even with how bad the defense is the team is still contending. I think that you may have had unrealistic expectations comming into this season. They might have been realistic if we had our starting safties, Orakpo and Carriker. I am pleasantly supprised that they have done this well. I am sorry that they haven't been good enough for you.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I voted wait until the end of the season to decide. If we lose the rest of the games there is no way I would keep him. That being said, I think we will end any where from 6-10 to 9-7. If we can do that this year I would give 1 more year and with the expectation of having at least 10 wins....

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I wish we could revisit what everyone's expectations were back when camp opened. I thought we were talking like .500 at best?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Angry;958343]I do not know about anyone else, but I was under the impression that everyone understood that while we brought in Garcon and Morgan that it would not be the end all to WR woes. Quantity never compensates for quality and I thought it was very apparent that those additions (save Garcon) would more than likely be a band aid until the position could be addressed through the draft or with better FA's. At the same time I do not blame them for our losses, but they did play a big part today.

The rest of the losses are due to a vulnerable defense that has been hampered by injuries and a suspension. Even with how bad the defense is the team is still contending. I think that you may have had unrealistic expectations comming into this season. They might have been realistic if we had our starting safties, Orakpo and Carriker. I am pleasantly supprised that they have done this well. I am sorry that they haven't been good enough for you.[/quote]

I appreciate your optimism, but it also pisses me off because we're looking at the same thing but see a totally different picture. You're a good one though and I'll not pick. :)

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958347]I wish we could revisit what everyone's expectations were back when camp opened. I thought we were talking like .500 at best?[/quote]

Mine were .500 at a minimum to justify another year...we're not gonna make it.

I know a lot of people talked about 10+ wins this season.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958347]I wish we could revisit what everyone's expectations were back when camp opened. I thought we were talking like .500 at best?[/quote]

Their eyes got big when they realized how good Griffin is. He has performed beyond my expectations, but the defense has performed below. It was a trade off. I still think we are on the right track. Regardless of how the rest of the season goes I believe that it would be a mistake to make another coaching change.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

The situation with Garcon kinda reminds me of Andre Carters first year here. I remember people tossing him under the bus and calling him a bum, all before even giving him a fair shot. Difference now with Garcon is injury, gotta at least give the guy a fair shot on the field before writing him off.

I know some don't want to hear the "injury excuse", but it's starting to pile up in a pretty real way. Helu, Orakpo, Carriker, Garcon, Davis, those 5 represent significant losses when you're talking potential difference makers.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958352]The situation with Garcon kinda reminds me of Andre Carters first year here. I remember people tossing him under the bus and calling him a bum, all before even giving him a fair shot. Difference is now with Garcon is injury, gotta at least give the guy a fair shot on the field before writing him off.

I know some don't want to hear the "injury excuse", but it's starting to pile up in a pretty real way. Helu, Orakpo, Carriker, Garcon, Davis, those 5 represent significant losses when you're talking potential difference makers.[/quote]

I am not down on Garcon by any means. In the one game that he was healthy he lit it up. The staff tries to compensate for injuries with depth, but with the amount that we have had it is a tall order to expect much more out of the team. Even with those injuries the team is competing. I cannot get down on them...we have all seen much worse with healthy teams.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I don't get why the New Coach thread got locked, but I just read through it a moment ago and was pretty surprised Jack Del Rio wasn't mentioned.

[QUOTE=artmonkforhallofamein07;958334]Next week they win.... All RG III show.[/QUOTE]

If they dont than this talk today will just pale in comparison.


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[QUOTE=The Goat;958354]I don't get why the New Coach thread got locked, but I just read through it a moment ago and was pretty surprised Jack Del Rio wasn't mentioned.[/QUOTE]

Would looooooove him as a DC but im pretty sure Denver does too.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Angry;958353]I am not down on Garcon by any means. In the one game that he was healthy he lit it up. The staff tries to compensate for injuries with depth, but with the amount that we have had it is a tall order to expect much more out of the team. Even with those injuries the team is competing. I cannot get down on them...we have all seen much worse with healthy teams.[/quote]

I hear ya, I just know some are down and out on Garcon without giving him a fair shake is all. I think when healthy he could really solidify our WR corps. He and Griffin seemed to be building on something before he got hurt.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958347]I wish we could revisit what everyone's expectations were back when camp opened. I thought we were talking like .500 at best?[/quote]

Not me. I said 5-6 wins and I stand by that.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

still, i figured a 7-9ish season just due to breakining a rookie QB and the terrible secondary. being at 4-5 after next week would be right on track... so i guess that's why i'm and surprised with all the fire and brimstone stuff.

looks like it's a very small minority though.

I'd probably go for another year. there's no gaurantee you'll get anyone better, and we've been down that path quite a bit already, so i'd rather make sure before upheaving the entire team again with unknown results.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;958354]I don't get why the New Coach thread got locked, but I just read through it a moment ago and was pretty surprised Jack Del Rio wasn't mentioned.[/quote]

Because I created it for you and you didn't post there and many of the responses were idiotic. Wasn't worth it

[QUOTE=Angry;958343]I do not know about anyone else, but I was under the impression that everyone understood that while we brought in Garcon and Morgan that it would not be the end all to WR woes. Quantity never compensates for quality and I thought it was very apparent that those additions (save Garcon) would more than likely be a band aid until the position could be addressed through the draft or with better FA's. At the same time I do not blame them for our losses, but they did play a big part today.

The rest of the losses are due to a vulnerable defense that has been hampered by injuries and a suspension. Even with how bad the defense is the team is still contending. I think that you may have had unrealistic expectations comming into this season. They might have been realistic if we had our starting safties, Orakpo and Carriker. I am pleasantly supprised that they have done this well. I am sorry that they haven't been good enough for you.[/QUOTE]

I really like everything you have to say - but we spent a high draft pick on Hank and alot of money on Garcon and Morgan. I was definitely under the impression that they thought they had that particular area squared away.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958352]The situation with Garcon kinda reminds me of Andre Carters first year here. I remember people tossing him under the bus and calling him a bum, all before even giving him a fair shot. Difference now with Garcon is injury, gotta at least give the guy a fair shot on the field before writing him off.

I know some don't want to hear the "injury excuse", but it's starting to pile up in a pretty real way. Helu, Orakpo, Carriker, Garcon, Davis, those 5 represent significant losses when you're talking potential difference makers.[/quote]

Ok then, let's get into it. The Packers won the frikkin Superbowl with something like a third of the roster on IR or seriously banged up. The Superbowl. Muff said. I already covered the Pats w/ Cassell and we're just hours past a game we lost to team missing as much "starter talent" as we have. Any adult, and lots of kids, who follow the game could work up a list of a dozen really, really banged up teams that went to the playoffs etc.

Mike can't get us above .500 in a season, and we're trending downward, both offensively and defensively, week by week.

And I can't let the Garcon "thing" go either. Unless you expect him to significantly outperfrom his best season (played w/ Peyton Manning for 4 years), he's just not going to make much of a difference. He'll replace Moss in production eventually, but I suspect never top Moss' best two or three seasons.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;958361]Because I created it for you and you didn't post there and many of the responses were idiotic. Wasn't worth it[/quote]

There were some good names thrown in the hat, and I guess I was hoping discussion of them on an individual basis would follow. But whatevs, we'll have lots of those threads toward end of the season and beyond.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;958362]I really like everything you have to say - but we spent a high draft pick on Hank and alot of money on Garcon and Morgan. I was definitely under the impression that they thought they had that particular area squared away.


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It was no secret that Hankerson had problems with the hands comming out of college, but he was still very productive. They thought that they could develop him and it is still possible. I would still make the move on Garcon today given everything that I know. I thought that Morgan was going to be camp fodder and shouldn't have be signed for as much. Honestly, I thought that we had 2 other WR's in camp better than Morgan (Armstrong and what's his name?), but I do not work with the team everyday. I thought and still think that Garcon can replace Moss, but I do not have confidence in anyone else besides Moss being Moss.

Morgan is the only player where I feel that they definately should not have done or could have done better.

Jack Del Rio?

Really?

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I'd take Russ Grimm, Ray Horton, Kevin Greene, and Marc Trestman before I took Del Rio. He never did anything impressive in Jacksonville in his many years there.

[QUOTE=Angry;958367]It was no secret that Hankerson had problems with the hands comming out of college, but he was still very productive. They thought that they could develop him and it is still possible. I would still make the move on Garcon today given everything that I know. I thought that Morgan was going to be camp fodder and shouldn't have be signed for as much. Honestly, I thought that we had 2 other WR's in camp better than Morgan (Armstrong and what's his name?), but I do not work with the team everyday. I thought and still think that Garcon can replace Moss, but I do not have confidence in anyone else besides Moss being Moss.

Morgan is the only player where I feel that they definately should not have done or could have done better.[/QUOTE]

I liked Armstrong too. Is whats his name Terrance Austin? I agree with you that the wr's need to be adressed still and with your takes on all those guys. I think that the team thought it was a done deal though. I dont really sweat the wr's because regardless of todays cluster **** our offense has been a mild surprise to say the least.


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Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;958372]I liked Armstrong too. Is whats his name [B]Terrance Austin[/B]? I agree with you that the wr's need to be adressed still and with your takes on all those guys. I think that the team thought it was a done deal though. I dont really sweat the wr's because regardless of todays cluster **** our offense has been a mild surprise to say the least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Yes, that was him.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958347]I wish we could revisit what everyone's expectations were back when camp opened. I thought we were talking like .500 at best?[/quote]

I was thinking .500, and maayyyyybe a winning record if the defense was solid. We know how that's turning out, but I'm thinking at this point we'll probably be slightly below .500. Best case scenario for me right now is .500, but I think we'll end up 7-9 or 6-10 probably. And I'm ok with that, because that's pretty close to what I envisioned going into the season. The only difference was I thought we would be around .500 because it would take RG3 time to adjust, I didn't envision this defensive collapse. Next year if the offense can keep performing at this level, and the defense becomes solid, we can definitely contend for a playoff spot. I just hope RG3 doesn't have the collapse that Cam is having this year.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=The Goat;958363]Ok then, let's get into it. The Packers won the frikkin Superbowl with something like a third of the roster on IR or seriously banged up. The Superbowl. Muff said. I already covered the Pats w/ Cassell and we're just hours past a game we lost to team missing as much "starter talent" as we have. Any adult, and lots of kids, who follow the game could work up a list of a dozen really, really banged up teams that went to the playoffs etc.

Mike can't get us above .500 in a season, and [B]we're trending downward, both offensively[/B] and defensively, week by week.

And I can't let the Garcon "thing" go either. Unless you expect him to significantly outperfrom his best season (played w/ Peyton Manning for 4 years), he's just not going to make much of a difference. He'll replace Moss in production eventually, but I suspect never top Moss' best two or three seasons.[/quote]

You are literally the only person who believes our offense is trending downward. I mean seriously. You're the only person who thinks everything the offense does, turnovers, w/e, is the fault of the coordinators for calling the wrong plays. It's f'n asinine.

And the hilarious thing is Garcon had his best season as a pro with Dan Orlovsky and that other scrub they had at qb last year, not with Peyton.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

This team has major injuries on defense and outside of RG3 they really dont have much talent at all on offense. I'm surprised at how good they have looked at times considering how little talent this team has. Shanny can stay cause he isnt the problem.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=punch it in;958362]I really like everything you have to say - but we spent a high draft pick on Hank and alot of money on Garcon and Morgan. I was definitely under the impression that they thought they had that particular area squared away.


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Hank, imo, has been borderline disappointment. He doesnt play fast enough and when he does he drops it. Robinson and Briscoe have done zilch this year. Garcon injuried all year and Morgan is a decent no. 2. Moss is almost done. I dont think WR is squared away at all, in fact its been a major disappointment. Garcon should just IR at this point.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

I get tired of hearing that Garcon is out.WR is the deepest position on the team. Plus we're no talking about Calvin Johnson. The Giants had so many of their players out a few weeks ago and some no name rb and wr's abused Carolina. The good teams can overcome injuries and the bad ones can't.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Mike Shanahan is a great coach. While that is true, he hasn't been able to get his Redskins to play on the same level as the Giants, Packers, and Saints. Shanahan claimed at the start that Washington was a rebuilding assignment. But it's not entirely his fault that his record as Redskins HC is very poor. I say give him continue to reshape the roster until the Redskins are completely sound on both sides of the ball. He told Snyder in the beginning that the Redskins weren't going to be winners over night. But they could be winners now if not for the pitiful pass defense. He's the one who hired Raheem Morris so it's his fault that the Redskins are losing.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

One bad game by the offense and everyone is talking about how our WRs are all bottom of the barrel? Get real, we have a very legit offense that shot itself in the foot today. The reason we are so upset about them is we are use to getting at least 20 points every game easily. When Garcon comes back, I bet you it becomes even better.

It was clear from watching this game that the offense had to be perfect. The defense didn't even make the Steelers punt until the end of the half! That's not getting a lot of opportunities for more possessions. Then, when you are down points, you can't be balanced. The redskins offense is best when it's balanced so RG doesn't have to throw, throw, throw.

Hall's attitude has been enough for me. He was another Cerrato hail mary and it's time for us to move on.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958369]Jack Del Rio?

Really?[/quote]

SO Damn...Many.....good names.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[QUOTE=REDSKINS4ever;958386]Mike Shanahan is a great coach. While that is true, he hasn't been able to get his Redskins to play on the same level as the Giants, Packers, and Saints. Shanahan claimed at the start that Washington was a rebuilding assignment. But it's not entirely his fault that his record as Redskins HC is very poor. I say give him continue to reshape the roster until the Redskins are completely sound on both sides of the ball. He told Snyder in the beginning that the Redskins weren't going to be winners over night. But they could be winners now if not for the pitiful pass defense. He's the one who hired Raheem Morris so it's his fault that the Redskins are losing.[/QUOTE
He also said it would take 5 years.....

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

What about a poll on a more likely scenario? Please put up a poll on whether or not Jim Haslett should be fired. There should be some entertaining comments on that one.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Angry;958343]I do not know about anyone else, but I was under the impression that everyone understood that while we brought in Garcon and Morgan that it would not be the end all to WR woes. Quantity never compensates for quality and I thought it was very apparent that those additions (save Garcon) would more than likely be a band aid until the position could be addressed through the draft or with better FA's. At the same time I do not blame them for our losses, but they did play a big part today.

The rest of the losses are due to a vulnerable defense that has been hampered by injuries and a suspension. Even with how bad the defense is the team is still contending. I think that you may have had unrealistic expectations comming into this season. They might have been realistic if we had our starting safties, Orakpo and Carriker. I am pleasantly supprised that they have done this well. I am sorry that they haven't been good enough for you.[/quote]That would have been a ton of money to spend on a band aid.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=Mattyk;958347]I wish we could revisit what everyone's expectations were back when camp opened. I thought we were talking like .500 at best?[/quote]I thought .500, maybe 7-9 at worst. They're officially underachieving.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;958391]What about a poll on a more likely scenario? Please put up a poll on whether or not Jim Haslett should be fired. There should be some entertaining comments on that one.[/quote]

Haslett should get a pink slip right after the gun goes off of the 16th game. I have no idea how he's coaching in the NFL. If Greg Williams was coaching this defense we would not be this bad. Not saying I want him back or anything, just making a point. One guy can coach, scheme and mix things up. One guy can't and has a confused look on his face.

Re: Should Mike Shanahan be fired?
 

Where's the fire Shanny from being in charge of personnel option?