Re: Conference Championship thread
 

Bonds was won ROY, 3 MVPs, 3 gold gloves and 3 silver slugger awards his first 5 or 6 seasons in the league ... not counting his steals. He, van slyke and bonilla we awesome together. their catcher was really good too.

** im pretty sure of the awards, i checked the net real quick but may be off a little bit **

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1105758]I'd argue he was close to it[/quote]

I think he was a shoe in nobody stole bases and hit for power in the same way he did early in his career. Look at the dichotomy between 1997 and 1998 statistically two different bonds.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

I think arguing about whether or not Bonds deserved the first ballot misses the point.

Belichick should be remembered for being the greatest coach ever. Instead he will be remembered as a cheater. He has no one to blame but himself, of course. What a shame.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

This is funny:

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2336922-alex-rodriguez-reportedly-training-with-barry-bonds-at-bay-area-facility]Alex Rodriguez Reportedly Training with Barry Bonds at Bay Area Facility | Bleacher Report[/url]

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=Lotus;1105763]I think arguing about whether or not Bonds deserved the first ballot misses the point.

Belichick should be remembered for being the greatest coach ever. Instead he will be remembered as a cheater. He has no one to blame but himself, of course. What a shame.[/quote]

Thank for speaking for all sports fans.
I'm sure it took you a long time to interview all of them.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

The football things has happened forever it did for the bucs in 03. People just hate on NE because they win every yr. Didn't the saints cheat too?? All teams look for leverage apparently not our team but everyone else does. Gets old

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1105768]The football things has happened forever it did for the bucs in 03. People just hate on NE because they win every yr. Didn't the saints cheat too?? All teams look for leverage apparently not our team but everyone else does. Gets old[/quote]

If NE wins every year, why the f*ck would they do this?

[url=http://www.theonion.com/articles/nation-cant-wait-to-hear-patriots-fans-excuses-thi,37819/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Pic:1:Default&recirc=super-bowl]Nation Can’t Wait To Hear Patriots Fans’ Excuses This Time | The Onion - America's Finest News Source[/url]

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

I don't mean win championships of course but they win the east ev yr man.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

Sorry the "Everybody does it" defense does not fly with me either as a substantive defense to the violation or as a basis for substantial mitigation of the sanction. Maybe as mitigation on the first confirmed violation of cheating, but not the second. Everybody speeds, but, if I get nailed for multiple speeding tickets, I lose my license even if each infraction is small or causes no imminent injury/danger to others.

In light of the issue being more widespread (i.e. everyone DOES play fast and loose with this particular issue), I can see SOME minor mitigation to the sanction and will back off the forfeit. Other than that, yes, everyone tries to bend the rules to their advantage and we know we only catch one in ten (if that). Because of that, and to protect the integrity of the game - which would otherwise die the death of a 1,000 cuts, violations relating to competitive balance will be dealt with severely when teams are actually caught. Additionally, cheating on the competitive balance has at its core a deception - either on the refs, the other team or the fans. Because so much of our society is reliant on the need for honest dealings, violations involving dishonesty and deceptive dealings should always receive a higher penalty than merely accidental errors.

The penalty this time around should be a multiple of the prior cheating sanction (at least double but, IMHO, treble or quadruple) as it involves almost the exact same management team. Clearly, to the Pats, dishonesty is an acceptable method for gaining a competitive advantage - I strongly disagree. Until dissuaded of this belief, however, the current Patriot staff will continue to ignore the rules wherever possible relying on any penalty imposed when caught never being strong enough to significantly impact their ability to win.

Regardless of the penalty imposed this time, if Belichick gets caught again, he gets banned Pete Rose style. Let him know that as part of any sanction imposed this time around and hold him personally responsible for ensuring the honesty and integrity of his staff and players (No Henry II proclamations of "If only someone would rid me of this meddlesome priest" right before his knights ride off to kill the archbishop).

Belichick is a great coach. The Pats are a great team. They don't need to cheat. They did. Twice blatantly enough to be caught. Belichick's legacy is now in his own hands

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

Cheating is cheating. Always amazing to see people justify it.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/4272abf8f2de26360ad2030e20b7de79.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

You just know some naive ball boy is going to fall on his sword for Brady/Belicheat. He will take all the blame and Goodell will just look the other way.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1105776][IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/4272abf8f2de26360ad2030e20b7de79.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

love that van

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=Hijinx;1105780]You just know some naive ball boy is going to fall on his sword for Brady/Belicheat. He will take all the blame and Goodell will just look the other way.[/quote]

Or Goodell will make the 11 footballs and the ball boy disappear like the Spygate tapes.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

This is screwed up on so many levels. The NFL needs to send a message. I would expedite a thorough investigation before the Super Bowl or postpone it. If the Patriots are found guilty, they automatically forfeit the conference game, the win is reversed and the Colts go on to play Seattle. Suspend Belichek for a year, fine Kraft and take away draft picks. Seeing as how they are repeat offenders, this harsh punishment is necessary. Who knows if the Colts would have won if the balls were inflated properly or not, that is not the question. We wouldn't even be asking these questions if they were and it's obvious this was done intentionally. Question is did the Pats coaching staff order this to be done and/or know about it. This is serious business and should be treated as such.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

they 12th ball was also under-inflated but not to level of greater than -2 psi.

all 12 patriot balls were under-inflated

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

Rough year for the NFL, first 2 week of the season is all about Ray Rice, last 2 weeks is going to be all about Pats cheating.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

People need to reed this .....

[url]https://www.nfl.info/download/2012mediaguides/2013%20nfl%20rule%20book.pdf[/url]



Rule 2 The Ball
Section 1
BALL DIMENSIONS
The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.
The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case
(natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight
shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches;
weight, 14 to 15 ounces.
The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be
furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the
ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.
Section 2
BALL SUPPLY
Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of
the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all
stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games
held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to
the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game.
These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.
In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper
ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the
Commissioner.
In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center.
The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).
Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field .

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=Hijinx;1105789]Rough year for the NFL, first 2 week of the season is all about Ray Rice, last 2 weeks is going to be all about Pats cheating.[/quote]

Two of the supposedly best run organizations (Pats/Ravens) doing dumb sh*t.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/report-colts-had-inflation-concerns-in-november-matchup-with-patriots/]Report: Colts told NFL of inflation concerns after November game vs. Pats | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Hold on, so if the NFL was told of the issue before...???

"According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, the Colts notified the NFL about potential under-inflation after safety Mike Adams picked off Brady twice in New England’s 42-20 victory."

How come this is still an issue? Goodell dropping the deflated ball again? smh...this commish...

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1105793][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/report-colts-had-inflation-concerns-in-november-matchup-with-patriots/]Report: Colts told NFL of inflation concerns after November game vs. Pats | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Hold on, so if the NFL was told of the issue before...???

"According to ESPN’s Adam Schefter, the Colts notified the NFL about potential under-inflation after safety Mike Adams picked off Brady twice in New England’s 42-20 victory."

How come this is still an issue? Goodell dropping the deflated ball again? smh...this commish...[/quote]

At the end of the day, it is up to the owners to decide what to do, and I hope they act on this (remember how the owners led by Mara screwed us with the cap penalty?) If Belicheat gets a slap on the wrist, we will continue to see the sh*t happening over and over again.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=VirgilTibbs;1105786]This is screwed up on so many levels. The NFL needs to send a message. I would expedite a thorough investigation before the Super Bowl or postpone it. If the Patriots are found guilty, they automatically forfeit the conference game, the win is reversed and the Colts go on to play Seattle. Suspend Belichek for a year, fine Kraft and take away draft picks. Seeing as how they are repeat offenders, this harsh punishment is necessary. Who knows if the Colts would have won if the balls were inflated properly or not, that is not the question. We wouldn't even be asking these questions if they were and it's obvious this was done intentionally. Question is did the Pats coaching staff order this to be done and/or know about it. This is serious business and should be treated as such.[/quote]

Lose a draft pick or heavily fined. I thought it should have been a low pick but now I think it should be a 1st round pick and a fine.

No way they force a forfeit. Way too much. If spygate didn't cause a forfeit no way this does.

With those two things combined Bill should be suspended next year. Maybe for half the season. NO way Sean Payton should get a lesser punishment than Bill, for a second offense.

What I don't understand is why the NFL trusted teams to do the right thing this entire time. That is just stupid.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1105794]At the end of the day, it is up to the owners to decide what to do, and I hope they act on this (remember how the owners led by Mara screwed us with the cap penalty?) [B]If Belicheat gets a slap on the wrist, we will continue to see the sh*t happening over and over again.[/B][/quote]

Yup. Exactly.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

I have to chime in, its crazy how much its blown up (rightfully so) over the last couple days.

1) The NFL ball rule doesnt make any sense. They NFL should be in charge of administrating the balls for each game, they shouldnt leave it up to the team - thats just asking for manipulation of the rules..... Unless thats what they wanted when the rule was voted on. Seriously, you could have the NFL be in charge of fielding the balls or let each team play with their own balls based off of this nonsense:
12 balls for the home team +
12 balls for the away team +
12 balls for the home team as back up +
12 optional balls for the away team for backup IF outside

2) I question if Belichick was really involved with this. This seems almost more like a QB thing. I wouldnt be surprised if everyone knew about it but it was all Brady's doing.

3) The NFL should come down as hard if not harder then they did for bountygate. However i think the NFL should offer Brady or Belichick to spill their guts now and risk only X vs. if you stay quite or lie and we really stick it to you. ie the cover up is worse then the crime.

4) If NE wins the Superbowl and the penalty is too great for Brady and/ or Belichick does this cause either or both to retire? Whats the point of playing the last few years you got left if you dont have a good shot at winning (ie major salary cap hit in 2015 and 2016).

5) I think the ideal situation for the Pats is that Belichick takes the fall and gets suspend for the Superbowl along with some fines and a loss of a draft pick for next year. Long suspensions for players and coaches isnt good for anyone. Id like to know what the Saints and NFL lost in revenue after bountygate.

Definitely a bad two weeks for the NFL and the Pats.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

Quote of the day:

[I][B]"They can figure out the pressure of a football two days removed but they can't find a casino elevator video after six months?"[/B][/I]





[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B750x_BIEAA--8X.jpg:large[/IMG]

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

Personally I think Chuck Pagano is putting this shit out there to take the heat off his ass for how lousy his team continues to play against the Patriots. 0-4 and none of them have been close.



[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MpjfyaY.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1105799]Quote of the day:

[I][B]"They can figure out the pressure of a football two days removed but they can't find a casino elevator video after six months?"[/B][/I]

[/quote]

No offense, but this is a stupid quote.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1105791]People need to reed this .....

[url]https://www.nfl.info/download/2012mediaguides/2013%20nfl%20rule%20book.pdf[/url]



Rule 2 The Ball
Section 1
BALL DIMENSIONS
The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.
The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case
(natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight
shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches;
weight, 14 to 15 ounces.
The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be
furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the
ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.
Section 2
BALL SUPPLY
Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of
the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all
stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games
held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to
the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game.
These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.
In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper
ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the
Commissioner.
In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center.
The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).
Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field .[/quote]

Just reading that made my balls deflate by 1 psi.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1105796]Yup. Exactly.[/quote]


Does Arron Rogers Cheat ?


[url=http://milwaukee.suntimes.com/green-bay-packers/7/121/77329/aaron-rodgers-upset-refs-take-air-footballs]Aaron Rodgers 'upset' that refs take air out of footballs | Milwaukee[/url]


Now players are speaking out on the weight of football and how it should be handled. The latest? Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers who gets upset when NFL officials take air out of the footballs they used in games. Rodgers made it clear on his Tuesday ESPN radio show that he doesn’t think it should happen.

“I have a major problem with the way it goes down, to be honest with you,” according to a story by Rob Demovsky.

Yesterday we showed you a clip that was taken from week 13 where Rodgers said he over-inflates the footballs because he ‘likes them that way’. Is this the start of something big in the NFL? Will more players come forward saying they tampered with footballs?

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;1105804]Just reading that made my balls deflate by 1 psi.[/quote]

LOL , yet as you read it even the rule says there can be at least a 1 pound difference sometimes in the game balls ,my question is if it's cheating to under inflate them then is it cheating if they are over inflated ?

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1105802]No offense, but this is a stupid quote.[/quote]

No, no it's not. It's accurate and to the point. Not mine mind you, but a good one none the less.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=mlmpetert;1105798]I have to chime in, its crazy how much its blown up (rightfully so) over the last couple days.

1) The NFL ball rule doesnt make any sense. They NFL should be in charge of administrating the balls for each game, they shouldnt leave it up to the team - thats just asking for manipulation of the rules..... Unless thats what they wanted when the rule was voted on. Seriously, you could have the NFL be in charge of fielding the balls or let each team play with their own balls based off of this nonsense:
12 balls for the home team +
12 balls for the away team +
12 balls for the home team as back up +
12 optional balls for the away team for backup IF outside

2) I question if Belichick was really involved with this. This seems almost more like a QB thing. I wouldnt be surprised if everyone knew about it but it was all Brady's doing.

3) The NFL should come down as hard if not harder then they did for bountygate. However i think the NFL should offer Brady or Belichick to spill their guts now and risk only X vs. if you stay quite or lie and we really stick it to you. ie the cover up is worse then the crime.

4) If NE wins the Superbowl and the penalty is too great for Brady and/ or Belichick does this cause either or both to retire? Whats the point of playing the last few years you got left if you dont have a good shot at winning (ie major salary cap hit in 2015 and 2016).

5) I think the ideal situation for the Pats is that Belichick takes the fall and gets suspend for the Superbowl along with some fines and a loss of a draft pick for next year. Long suspensions for players and coaches isnt good for anyone. Id like to know what the Saints and NFL lost in revenue after bountygate.

Definitely a bad two weeks for the NFL and the Pats.[/quote]

We're talking about deflated balls. It's just not that big a deal that everyone is making it out to be. Also where is the proof that this was purposely done? Maybe it was an accident. Until there's actual evidence, the NFL doesn't have a case. Non issue to me.

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

If it were any team but the Patriots most everyone would say, rightfully so, "What's the big deal"

But it's the Patriot so here we are

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

Why do we really care (other than the kicking balls) what inflation a given team puts in the game balls they will be using? Figure out what is best for your QB and receivers and go with it. Let the other team do the same......
Change the rule...< is more

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[YT]vd3D2gsPUR0[/YT]

:lol:

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1105824]If it were any team but the Patriots most everyone would say, rightfully so, "What's the big deal"

But it's the Patriot so here we are[/quote]

Are you saying that because the Pats have been caught before or because so many people hate them?

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1105824]If it were any team but the Patriots most everyone would say, rightfully so, "What's the big deal"

But it's the Patriot so here we are[/quote]



This .............

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

Matt Leinart wrote on Twitter: “Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!”

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

[quote=Hijinx;1105843]Are you saying that because the Pats have been caught before or because so many people hate them?[/quote]

Probably more so the latter

Re: Conference Championship thread
 

I think because the Deflaitriots are somewhat the Yankees of the last 12 years, that def plays a part.

But I think people are more sick of the cheating within that organization.

Sure it may come to light that this was "norm" within the league such as "speeding", but if you get caught, at the end of the day its still illegal.

If this is such a norm, then the league should address it in the offseason and just say hey with your own 12 balls, put the psi anywhere you like, its no big deal.

I would rather the League focus on play on the field which has become crap. They really need to revisit what is an illegal hit and what is pass interference. Because this has really hurt the game.