Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;818717]He hasn't had the chance for it to happen. Now's his chance.[/quote]


He had his chances, just didn't get the job done, even on a befuddled Miami team. Shanny didn't like anything we could have landed in the 2011 draft at QB so he passed on a QB til 2012 and maybe 2013 to get another QB. Could Beck beat out Rexy? Sure he could, but the problem is that isn't saying much in itself. Rexy isn't the best starting QB in the first place. We acquired him to backup McNabb and give us an insurance policy of having a vet QB in there at all times. Rexy is #1 by default. WE are basically in between QB experiments. In spring 2012 our next QB experiment will be revealed, and we will only hope and pray this one takes. Every other QB "experiment" since 1993 has ended in mediocrity.(Shuler,Ramsey,JC, McNabb). I don't include Johnson or Brunell in there since they did get us into the playoffs. Frerotte was never intended to be the starter and had that thrust on him.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Y couldn't we just have had Rodgers in that draft? 1 pick ahead of us SMH

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Beck is a disaster waiting to unfolding. It's not going to be pretty trainwreck so you guys best have hardened stomach. I can't wait for this clown to go away.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I can see why Shanny feels that Beck might have success in this league. Couple of things popped out at me...quick feet, good vision and quick release. I also noticed that he tends to telegraph his passes (tunnel vision) and his accuracy is a big question mark.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;818767]Normally I don't get very excited about pre-season games. This year is going to be different, mainly because of the QB situation. It's going to be an opportunity for this Beck/Grossman competition to play itself out in the face of some very competitive teams, somewhere along the line a victor will emerge.[/quote]

Last flat out open preseason competition we had was between Wurfel/Matthews/Rosenfels. Fun to watch but hopefully the end result will be better this time around.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

i'm pretty sure rex is our starter this season... i'm just not sure beck is good enough to pop in with almost no nfl game day experience can beat out an unproductive nfl starter.

just saying.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Just a really random thought...If Shanahan could teach Rex some accuracy and consistancy he actually could be a decent QB

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=tc2deuce;820983]I can see why Shanny feels that Beck might have success in this league. Couple of things popped out at me...quick feet, good vision and quick release. I also noticed that he tends to telegraph his passes (tunnel vision) and his accuracy is a big question mark.[/quote]
All of this can be fixed with better coaching than what he had in miami am I right??

[QUOTE=saden1;820981]Beck is a disaster waiting to unfolding. It's not going to be pretty trainwreck so you guys best have hardened stomach. I can't wait for this clown to go away.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of whoever starts, there probably will be a QB change in about 4 to 6 weeks, so getting upset isn't really worth it. Both QBs have problems.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;818764]I'm surprised he thinks the job is Beck's to lose and Rex will be backing him up. I'm not so sure about that.[/quote]

John Beck and Joe Theismann share one commonality....they both love to talk.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=hooskins;820989]Regardless of whoever starts, there probably will be a QB change in about 4 to 6 weeks, so getting upset isn't really worth it. Both QBs have problems.[/quote]


I'm actually expecting several QB changes throughout the season. I say Beck starts, Rexy comes in at some point, Beck comes back in, same verse same as the first.

It's going to be interesting.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsguy;821015]I'm actually expecting several QB changes throughout the season. I say Beck starts, Rexy comes in at some point, Beck comes back in, same verse same as the first.

It's going to be interesting.[/quote]

What about Clemens? He's got more starting experience than Beck I believe, and he could pass one of those guys on the depth chart. When he started for the jets I think he was about on Rex's level. Then there's Chappel & Verica. I would be surprised if one of those guys makes it as #3.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=freddyg12;821017]What about Clemens? He's got more starting experience than Beck I believe, and he could pass one of those guys on the depth chart. When he started for the jets I think he was about on Rex's level. Then there's Chappel & Verica. I would be surprised if one of those guys makes it as #3.[/quote]

I think Clemens comes in if one of the other two gets injured. Of course, I'm not hoping for any injures, because I do think we're going to need more than on QB ready to go in at all times...possibly even all three.

I don't know anything about Chappel or Verica. One of those guys will probably make the practice squad.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Peter Kings gives good insight here on Beck and Kyle Shanahan wanting to draft him

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/08/08/tour/1.html]Philadelphia Eagles can redo contracts for Michael Vick, DeSean Jackson and still be under NFL cap - Peter King - SI.com[/url]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;820990]John Beck and Joe Theismann share one commonality....they both love to talk.[/quote]

For someone that hasn't done ANYTHING in the NFL he sure likes to talk. I like his confidence but I don't like his ability. A good friend of mine was out at the park last week and said Beck looked like a high school QB throwing the ball. And this guy use to be a high school football coach.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;821023]Peter Kings gives good insight here on Beck and Kyle Shanahan wanting to draft him

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/08/08/tour/1.html"]Philadelphia Eagles can redo*contracts for Michael Vick,*DeSean*Jackson and still be under NFL cap - Peter King - SI.com[/URL][/quote]

And what is Kyle Shanahan's qualifications for scouting QB's?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821030]And what is Kyle Shanahan's qualifications for scouting QB's?[/quote]

He's significantly more qualified than you or me, or anyone else here.

He works in the NFL doesn't he?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;821031]He's significantly more qualified than you or me, or anyone else here.

He works in the NFL doesn't he?[/quote]

agreed. but that's not saying much either.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;821031]He's significantly more qualified than you or me, or anyone else here.

He works in the NFL doesn't he?[/quote]

A BIG reason he's in the position that he's in is because of his dad. If not for his dad would he have been an offensive coordinator for two NFL teams? No.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821030]And what is Kyle Shanahan's qualifications for scouting QB's?[/quote]



...and your qualifications are??


[quote=skinsfan69;821034]A BIG reason he's in the position that he's in is because of his dad. If not for his dad would he have been an offensive coordinator for two NFL teams? No.[/quote]


He started out as basically a intern. He earned his way up the ladder.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsguy;821015]I'm actually expecting several QB changes throughout the season. I say Beck starts, Rexy comes in at some point, Beck comes back in, same verse same as the first.

It's going to be interesting.[/quote]

Grossman has got to be the starter for the first few weeks. He's shown that he can move the offense. Beck has shown nothing. He'll get his shot sooner or later cause the Shanahans have stuck their neck out for the guy. But their going to have egg on their faces for it.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821032]agreed. but that's not saying much either.[/quote]

I think it says plenty.

He grew up in a football household, he played high school and college ball, and he started out in coaching 8 years ago. I think he knows a thing or two about the game.

[quote]I studied every potential Xs and Os play and issue possible. I spent my whole life working on that. My goal was that any question a player could have about anything on the field, I'd be able to answer it. - Kyle Shanahan.[/quote]

Trying to sell him short because of his Dad is pretty lame.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;821035]...and your qualifications are??





He started out as basically a intern. He earned his way up the ladder.[/quote]

I never said my qualifaications are better than his. They're not. But he's where he is today cause of his dad. I never said he didn't work hard. They're guys in the NFL that have been coaching for years and have never had the chance to run an offense. Doors opened for him and he's taking advantage of that. But in my opinion, if he thinks Beck can be an NFL starter he's sadly mistaken. The Shanahans think Beck is better than any of the guys that came out this year. We'll see. But if Gabbert turns out to be legit then heads might roll.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;821039]I think it says plenty.

He grew up in a football household, he played high school and college ball, and he started out in coaching 8 years ago. I think he knows a thing or two about the game.



Trying to sell him short because of his Dad is pretty lame.[/quote]

Your response is lame cause I'm not questioning his X and O knowledge! I think Kyle knows his stuff about offense. He is where is cause of his dad. But that doesn't mean he's not good at what he does. I'm questioning his talent evaluation of John Beck. I saw the guy play when he was a rookie and I didn't see anything that made me believe that he was going to be good. He throws a bad ball, doesn't spin it and couldn't play in bad weather.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821044]I never said my qualifaications are better than his. They're not. But he's where he is today cause of his dad. I never said he didn't work hard. They're guys in the NFL that have been coaching for years and have never had the chance to run an offense. Doors opened for him and he's taking advantage of that. But in my opinion, if he thinks Beck can be an NFL starter he's sadly mistaken. The Shanahans think Beck is better than any of the guys that came out this year. We'll see. But if Gabbert turns out to be legit then heads might roll.[/quote]

His Dad might have originally opened a few doors for him but ultimately he has to keep himself in the room. If he'd have failed it wouldnt matter who his Dad is, he'd be gone.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821044]I never said my qualifaications are better than his. They're not. But he's where he is today cause of his dad. I never said he didn't work hard. They're guys in the NFL that have been coaching for years and have never had the chance to run an offense. Doors opened for him and he's taking advantage of that. [B]But in my opinion, if he thinks Beck can be an NFL starter he's sadly mistaken.[/B] The Shanahans think Beck is better than any of the guys that came out this year. We'll see. But if Gabbert turns out to be legit then heads might roll.[/quote]


You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm definitely giving it a wait and see what happens on the field stance before I go assuming things about Beck. My gut feeling is that he won't play the entire season, but I could be very wrong.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821047]Your response is lame cause I'm not questioning his X and O knowledge! I think Kyle knows his stuff about offense. He is where is cause of his dad. But that doesn't mean he's not good at what he does. I'm questioning his talent evaluation of John Beck. I saw the guy play when he was a rookie and I didn't see anything that made me believe that he was going to be good. He throws a bad ball, doesn't spin it and couldn't play in bad weather.[/quote]

lol give me a break, you're basing your opinion on a few games you saw on TV, meanwhile KS has broken down hours of tape on the guy and also works with him personally.

But yeah, you're the expert questioning [I]his[/I] credentials.

:doh:

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=irish;821048]His Dad might have originally opened a few doors for him but ultimately he has to keep himself in the room. If he'd have failed it wouldnt matter who his Dad is, he'd be gone.[/quote]

This.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;821050]lol give me a break, you're basing your opinion on a few games you saw on TV, meanwhile KS has broken down hours of tape on the guy and also works with him personally.

But yeah, you're the expert questioning [I]his[/I] credentials.

:doh:[/quote]

Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821060]Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. [B]If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. [/B]I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.[/quote]

Both Ozzie and Bill Parcells had very specific reasons for letting Beck go for a ham sandwich, most of which were not football related.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821060]Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.[/quote]

Good points about Newsome and Parcells regarding Beck. Those two are some of the best personnell minds in the game. Them letting Beck go for next to nothing definitely says something.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;821077]Both Ozzie and Bill Parcells had very specific reasons for letting Beck go for a ham sandwich, most of which were not football related.[/quote]

What reasons? Doug Dutch? Lol.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I'm so happy that we have a game this week so that we can start making educated evaluations of Beck rather than relying on speculation.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821060]Yep. With the really good young QB's you can see if they AT LEAST have the talent. You can see that Sam Bradford has the talent. You can see that Josh Freeman has the talent. You can see that Matt Ryan has what it takes. I didn't see that "it" factor when I saw John Beck play. Even going way back, you could even see that early on, Gus was better than Heath. If Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells is giving the guy away for a ham sandwich then that tells you something. I put waaaaaaaaaaay more stock into what they think vs. Kyle Shanahan. We'll see.[/quote]

I see what you're saying, and in some respects I agree with you. At the same time, let's also keep in mind that not every Super Bowl MVP QB that has ever played the game started off that way in their rookie seasons or even the seasons after that.

Let's also keep in mind that Parcells wasn't exactly an offensive mind during his coaching years in the NFL. Yes, I give him respect because of his Super Bowl wins with the Giants, but I'm not so sure he'd be someone who you'd take his evaluations over someone like Kyle who works solely with the offense and is doing it presently in today's NFL. Sure, maybe Parcells didn't want Beck in Miami, but it's not like he picked an all-star QB to replace him either. As far as Ozzie Newsome is concerned, he probably is more of an offensive mind and could evaluate talent better, but again, his knowledge lays mostly with receiving.

Just give it time and see what happens. Just enjoy the fact that we're getting to see football and this team is going through a change for the better.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

*sigh*

1.) Beck went to Parcells at the end of the 2008 season and laid his cards on the table. He wanted to know where he stood in the organization, and if he'd be able to compete for a starting job. Parcells pretty much told him no. This is a year after Parcells came into the organization and said that Beck reminded him of Tony Romo.

(Which is weord, since Tony Romo wasn't a Parcells product, he was Sean Payton's project. And Mike Shanahan wanted him too. Go figure.)

Beck asked if he'd be allowed to compete for a starting job. Parcells told him no. They apparently had some words. Beck asked to be traded or be released.

Let me repeat this. John Beck [b]ASKED[/b] to be traded or released, if he wasn't going to be able to compete for a chance to compete. This isn't Bill Parcells saying "oh, this guy isn't worth anything". That's Beck going into Parcells office and saying "I deserve to start, at least give me the opportunity to try and start somewhere else". Parcells granted his request. His [i]request[/i].

2.) When it comes to John Beck going to the Ravens, people very much like to ignore the fact that Beck was never going to start there. Ever. To sit and act indignant like "Oh, if Ozzie Newsome saw something in Beck he woulda kept him" conveniently ignores the fact that they already had a franchise quarterback in Joe Flacco, and a back-up quarterback they drafted in Troy Smith.

The Ravens needed a corner. Mike and Kyle liked John Beck. The Ravens had just signed Marc Bulger to be a pretty expensive back-up quarterback, and Joe Flacco is healthy, so the Ravens knew they were going to be rolling with two QB's, so Beck got traded.

It's not this black and white case of "well if those guys saw anything they woulda kept him!". It's business, and it's regime changes.

I'm not saying Beck can start, but I'm kinda of annoyed at the "If Parcells/Newsome thought he had something they woulda kept him" argument. It ignores the facts of his time in the NFL.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GMScud;821081]Good points about Newsome and Parcells regarding Beck. Those two are some of the best personnell minds in the game. Them letting Beck go for next to nothing definitely says something.[/quote]

Are they good points really?

Parcells is a good personnel guy when it comes to OL/DL/LB, but I wouldn't call him some guru on QBs. None of his QBs have been really worth noting. (Simms?..lol, Bledsoe?..lol, Hostetler?...lol) and it took him forever to finally bench Bledsoe for Tony Romo.


Same can be said with Newsome. He's great at the other positions (OL,DB,LB,DL,RB), but lets not make them out to be some QB gurus. Dilfer?...lol Banks?...lol Grbac?...lol Boeller?...lol Hell, even now, we are seeing their prime young QB fail when it matters most. The jury is still out on Flacco at this point in time.


I would value Shannahan/Reid/Holmgren opinion on QBs more than I would Parcells/Newsome.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;821090]*sigh*

1.) Beck went to Parcells at the end of the 2008 season and laid his cards on the table. He wanted to know where he stood in the organization, and if he'd be able to compete for a starting job. Parcells pretty much told him no. This is a year after Parcells came into the organization and said that Beck reminded him of Tony Romo.

(Which is weord, since Tony Romo wasn't a Parcells product, he was Sean Payton's project. And Mike Shanahan wanted him too. Go figure.)

Beck asked if he'd be allowed to compete for a starting job. Parcells told him no. They apparently had some words. Beck asked to be traded or be released.

Let me repeat this. John Beck [B]ASKED[/B] to be traded or released, if he wasn't going to be able to compete for a chance to compete. This isn't Bill Parcells saying "oh, this guy isn't worth anything". That's Beck going into Parcells office and saying "I deserve to start, at least give me the opportunity to try and start somewhere else". Parcells granted his request. His [I]request[/I].

2.) When it comes to John Beck going to the Ravens, people very much like to ignore the fact that Beck was never going to start there. Ever. To sit and act indignant like "Oh, if Ozzie Newsome saw something in Beck he woulda kept him" conveniently ignores the fact that they already had a franchise quarterback in Joe Flacco, and a back-up quarterback they drafted in Troy Smith.

The Ravens needed a corner. Mike and Kyle liked John Beck. The Ravens had just signed Marc Bulger to be a pretty expensive back-up quarterback, and Joe Flacco is healthy, so the Ravens knew they were going to be rolling with two QB's, so Beck got traded.

It's not this black and white case of "well if those guys saw anything they woulda kept him!". It's business, and it's regime changes.

I'm not saying Beck can start, but I'm kinda of annoyed at the "If Parcells/Newsome thought he had something they woulda kept him" argument. It ignores the facts of his time in the NFL.[/quote]

I'm glad you posted this. Maybe now some of the boo birds can quiet their chirping a bit.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;821090]*sigh*

1.) Beck went to Parcells at the end of the 2008 season and laid his cards on the table. He wanted to know where he stood in the organization, and if he'd be able to compete for a starting job. Parcells pretty much told him no. This is a year after Parcells came into the organization and said that Beck reminded him of Tony Romo.

(Which is weord, since Tony Romo wasn't a Parcells product, he was Sean Payton's project. And Mike Shanahan wanted him too. Go figure.)

Beck asked if he'd be allowed to compete for a starting job. Parcells told him no. They apparently had some words. Beck asked to be traded or be released.

Let me repeat this. John Beck [B]ASKED[/B] to be traded or released, if he wasn't going to be able to compete for a chance to compete. This isn't Bill Parcells saying "oh, this guy isn't worth anything". That's Beck going into Parcells office and saying "I deserve to start, at least give me the opportunity to try and start somewhere else". Parcells granted his request. His [I]request[/I].

2.) When it comes to John Beck going to the Ravens, people very much like to ignore the fact that Beck was never going to start there. Ever. To sit and act indignant like "Oh, if Ozzie Newsome saw something in Beck he woulda kept him" conveniently ignores the fact that they already had a franchise quarterback in Joe Flacco, and a back-up quarterback they drafted in Troy Smith.

The Ravens needed a corner. Mike and Kyle liked John Beck. The Ravens had just signed Marc Bulger to be a pretty expensive back-up quarterback, and Joe Flacco is healthy, so the Ravens knew they were going to be rolling with two QB's, so Beck got traded.

It's not this black and white case of "well if those guys saw anything they woulda kept him!". It's business, and it's regime changes.

[B]I'm not saying Beck can start, but I'm kinda of annoyed at the "If Parcells/Newsome thought he had something they woulda kept him" argument. It ignores the facts of his time in the NFL[/B].[/quote]

This exactly.

Also, just to add, Cameron knew that Beck had a better shot at playing here than in Baltimore, so rather than keep him buried on their depth chart they traded him.

So just to recap, regime change in Miami, numbers game in B-More.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Sigh is right. At the end of the day we're arguing about a guy who won't beat out a Rex Grossman for a starting job.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;821077]Both Ozzie and Bill Parcells had very specific reasons for letting Beck go for a ham sandwich, most of which were not football related.[/quote]

Dolphins let him go because they originally got Chad Pennington on a whim then after he got hurt they wanted to make sure the guy they drafted got a shot. Ravens obviously had a franchise QB and knew they were set at backup with Bulger. Both understandable circumstances.

[quote=Lotus;821085]I'm so happy that we have a game this week so that we can start making educated evaluations of Beck rather than relying on speculation.[/quote]

How lucky are we that the already rattled confidence of Redskin Nations QB situation will have it's first test against the Steelers. Obviously the first game is to early to make an honest evaluation but prepare for the 911 switch boards to light up on Friday Night in the DC Metro area.