Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;821099]Dolphins let him go because they originally got Chad Pennington on a whim then after he got hurt they wanted to make sure the guy they drafted got a shot. Ravens obviously had a franchise QB and knew they were set at backup with Bulger. Both understandable circumstances.[/quote]

Both understandable, but regardless of the reasons, the fact that he was given away for next to nothing not once but twice doesn't really lend to the idea of him having much value for multiple teams, especially as a potential starter. If he wasn't viewed as anything more than a clipboard holder, he wouldnt have been passed off so easily.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;821091]Are they good points really?

[B]Parcells is a good personnel guy when it comes to OL/DL/LB, but I wouldn't call him some guru on QBs. None of his QBs have been really worth noting. (Simms?..lol, Bledsoe?..lol, Hostetler?...lol) and it took him forever to finally bench Bledsoe for Tony Romo.[/B]


Same can be said with Newsome. He's great at the other positions (OL,DB,LB,DL,RB), but lets not make them out to be some QB gurus. Dilfer?...lol Banks?...lol Grbac?...lol Boeller?...lol Hell, even now, we are seeing their prime young QB fail when it matters most. The jury is still out on Flacco at this point in time.


I would value Shannahan/Reid/Holmgren opinion on QBs more than I would Parcells/Newsome.[/quote]

You're kidding me right? Phil Simms was a damn good NFL Qb. So was Drew Bledsoe. They were both very good. If you don't think those guys were not good then I can't respect your football IQ.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821102]You're kidding me right? Phil Simms was a damn good NFL Qb. So was Drew Bledsoe. They were both very good. If you don't think those guys were not good then I can't respect your football IQ.[/quote]


Bledsoe took an AVG Pats team to the SB and Simms has won a SB.. I think they were both really good NTM Romo is a solid player also

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

whoa

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/08/kyle-shanahan-says-he-wanted-texans-to-take-john-beck-with-10th-pick-in-2007-draft/]Kyle Shanahan says he wanted Texans to take John Beck with 10th pick in 2007 | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;821104]whoa

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/08/kyle-shanahan-says-he-wanted-texans-to-take-john-beck-with-10th-pick-in-2007-draft/]Kyle Shanahan says he wanted Texans to take John Beck with 10th pick in 2007 | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Man, the QB class of 2007 sucked. Also, I love how PFT is digging at Redskins' non-stories. LOL. They are like a crackhead who is going through withdrawal.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;821104]whoa

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/08/kyle-shanahan-says-he-wanted-texans-to-take-john-beck-with-10th-pick-in-2007-draft/]Kyle Shanahan says he wanted Texans to take John Beck with 10th pick in 2007 | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Maybe a case of revisionist history but Rick Smith (Texans GM) confirming Kyle liking Beck 4 years after the fact gives it some credibility. I don't know, it's one of those things where it's fun to fix up a sports car rather then break the bank for a new one before you can afford it.

Still I keep on talking to my Dad about this and he's like oh the Skins are going to be like 3-13 this year. And I asked him how is that so? Last year they went 6-10 with one of the worst QB's in the league (at least performance wise, seeing as how McNabb was McNabb in name only), the 31st ranked defense, and the 24th ranked rushing attack. They shored up the offensive and defensive lines, started building through the draft, and if anything they'll get better QB play out of Grossman then they got out of McNabb this year.

Better defense, better O-Line, deeper running back stable, improved QB play, easier overall schedule, and second year in both offensive and defensive systems all point towards the team imporving.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;821105]Man, the QB class of 2007 sucked. Also, I love how PFT is digging at Redskins' non-stories. LOL. They are like a crackhead who is going through withdrawal.[/quote]

seriously, talk about making stories out of non-stories, but that's what PFT does best.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821102]You're kidding me right? Phil Simms was a damn good NFL Qb. So was Drew Bledsoe. They were both very good. If you don't think those guys were not good then I can't respect your football IQ.[/quote]


I'll might be willing to give you Bledsoe, but Phil Simms no. Dude's average QB rating is BELOW 80.

Also, looking at Bledsoe even further. His completion % sucked balls and has a career QB rating of 77. Sure he may have thrown many seasons with 20+ TDs, but he also had a ton of INTs to go along. That and he was a statue that took sacks instead of being able to avoid them.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;821108]Maybe a case of revisionist history but Rick Smith (Texans GM) confirming Kyle liking Beck 4 years after the fact gives it some credibility. I don't know, it's one of those things where it's fun to fix up a sports car rather then break the bank for a new one before you can afford it.

Still I keep on talking to my Dad about this and he's like oh the Skins are going to be like 3-13 this year. And I asked him how is that so? Last year they went 6-10 with one of the worst QB's in the league (at least performance wise, seeing as how McNabb was McNabb in name only), the 31st ranked defense, and the 24th ranked rushing attack. They shored up the offensive and defensive lines, started building through the draft, and if anything they'll get better QB play out of Grossman then they got out of McNabb this year.

Better defense, better O-Line, deeper running back stable, improved QB play, easier overall schedule, and second year in both offensive and defensive systems all point towards the team imporving.[/quote]

I'm starting to think it's becoming a defense mechanism. Trying to convince themselves it's going to be a horrible season, so if we have a good season they can be "pleasantly surprised" or if they have a bad season they can say "I told you so".

We didn't make some big move in the offseason that allowed people to say "SUPER BOWL, MAN!", so instead fans are saying we'll suck for doing exactly what they said they didn't want to do.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;821105]Man, the QB class of 2007 sucked. Also, I love how PFT is digging at Redskins' non-stories. LOL. [B]They are like a crackhead who is going through withdrawal[/B].[/quote]

It is pretty laughable.

However the notion of John Beck is pretty laughable, too.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NLC1054;821115]I'm starting to think it's becoming a defense mechanism. Trying to convince themselves it's going to be a horrible season, so if we have a good season they can be "pleasantly surprised" or if they have a bad season they can say "I told you so".

We didn't make some big move in the offseason that allowed people to say "SUPER BOWL, MAN!", so instead fans are saying we'll suck for doing exactly what they said they didn't want to do.[/quote]

With no big splashy moves to get people excited, I do think the more casual fans have already written this season off as a lost cause.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;821103]Bledsoe took an AVG Pats team to the SB and Simms has won a SB.. I think they were both really good NTM Romo is a solid player also[/quote]


Dilfer also won a Super Bowl. Yup, had nothing to do with the defenses carrying those offenses eh? Nah, the Giants didn't have one of only NFL defensive players ever to win the MVP award(1 other one).

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

We will get a first peek this Friday of how Beck may do this season. Of all the Redskins, I'm most anxious of how Beck will do against the Steeler's defensive starters. Then I wanna see how well the Redskins defense plays overall.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Simms was a good QB. A bit of a late bloomer who battled injury problems early on in his career. You can't compare his numbers to QBs of today. What I do know is the guy won a lot of games, and his SB performance against the Broncos was one of the best of all time. I think you might be selling him a little short NC.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

How does that old adage go? Past performance does not guarantee or imply future success? Let's not forget the Shanahans are they ones who were smart enough to trade a 2nd rounder for McNabb.

Reservation and disbelief is warranted.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;821123]Simms was a good QB. A bit of a late bloomer who battled injury problems early on in his career. You can't compare his numbers to QBs of today. What I do know is the guy won a lot of games, and his SB performance against the Broncos was one of the best of all time. I think you might be selling him a little short NC.[/quote]

I'm not saying he's bad, but for the pick he was selected at, not really. Different era and different mentality I suppose (run vs pass).

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=saden1;821125]How does that old adage go? Past performance does not guarantee or imply future success? Let's not forget the Shanahans are they ones who were smart enough to trade a 2nd rounder for McNabb.

Reservation and disbelief is warranted.[/quote]


Only one Shannahan wanted McDummy. (it wasn't Kyle)

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;821127]Only one Shannahan wanted McDummy. (it wasn't Kyle)[/quote]

Well, despite what Danny and Shanny say, there's plenty of speculation that Snyder pushed for that move. The smartest guy on 980am (Kevin Sheehan) thinks so.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;821112]I'll might be willing to give you Bledsoe, but Phil Simms no. Dude's average QB rating is BELOW 80.

Also, looking at Bledsoe even further. His completion % sucked balls and has a career QB rating of 77. Sure he may have thrown many seasons with 20+ TDs, but he also had a ton of INTs to go along. That and he was a statue that took sacks instead of being able to avoid them.[/quote]

You simply can not compare numbers of today to the mid 90's or 80's. You just can't because it's become a pass happy league where teams run a lot more 4-5 wr sets. The illegal contact rule has become a major issue. It's just harder to defend the pass today than it was 10 years ago.

You obviously never saw Phil Simms play cause you're judging him on a silly rating. If you put him in todays offenses his numbers would be MUCH better cause he was such an accurate mid range passer. He also played for a run first coach who wanted the TE to be the focal point of the offense. Yes Bledsoe was a statue, he played for some bad teams, but how many QB's threw for more yardage than him? Probably a handful? You don't do that unless you've got serious skills. So again, neither was a geat Qb, but they certainly were very good to good, and I'd bet the guys that played with and against them would agree with me and not you.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GMScud;821128]Well, despite what Danny and Shanny say, there's plenty of speculation that Snyder pushed for that move. The smartest guy on 980am (Kevin Sheehan) thinks so.[/quote]

I think Snyder is a total twat and douchebag, but I don't think he had anything to do with that move. In fact, I think he's not a part of football operations at this point in time. Had this been the past, I would absolutely bank on this being a Snyder move. I think it was a huge gamble by Shanny and a utter failure at that. At least he owned up to it and moved on.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I wish I could be a fly on the wall for that conversation...

Mike: So I'm thinking this deal for Donovan is done.

Kyle: Um...yeah, Dad? We've talked about this before. A lot. I don't want McNabb. He's not a fit for our system.

Mike: Have you mowed the grass yet?

Kyle: Dad, that's not the point. Haven't you heard about this guy? About the laziness, the lack of tempo. Not to mention his fundamentals are all over the place, Dad, and...

Mike: That grass is looking mighty long, Kyle.

Kyle: ...Okay, I get the grass is growing a bit. But personally, I wouldn't mind working with Jason Campbell, letting him and Rex compete for the job...

Mike: How about this? We'll trade for Donovan, and we'll work to fixing his fundamentals...

Kyle: He's 34, how can we--

Mike: In the meantime, while me and Bruce finalize the puppy, you can mow the grass

Kyle: I really don't see.

Mike: Does someone want to get grounded?

Kyle: ...Dad, I'm 31 years old, and...

Mike: Okay *pats Kyle on the back*, good talk son. Going to go trade for Donovan now. I expect that grass to be mowed when I come back.

*Mike walks off, leaving Kyle looking defeated. Vanquished, Kyle sighs, walks away, and goes to get the lawn mower, cursing McNabb's name the whole time*

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821130]You obviously never saw Phil Simms play cause you're judging him on a silly rating..[/quote]

I assure you, I've watched him play. I can't tell you how many times I've cursed the name Mark Bravaro. That guy ****ing destroyed us each and every game. I'm not saying he was bad, just nothing that impressed me that much. Jim Kelly was a better QB in my opinion and so were a few other QBs during that era.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I'm not going to say Ozzie Newsome, the same guy who traded picks to ensure he'd move up for Kyle Boller, giving up on John Beck is the death knell for Beck. At the same time, I don't know how I feel about us being the ones to "truly" give him his first real opportunity...at 30 years old. Really hope I'm proven wrong about him. But I feel we're going to put a lot of pressure on our running game and defense with Beck behind center.

And, while it's not a topic I want to keep talking about as I prefer to just move on, I've heard repeatedly from many people the McNabb talk was initially pushed by Bruce Allen.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;821104]whoa

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/08/kyle-shanahan-says-he-wanted-texans-to-take-john-beck-with-10th-pick-in-2007-draft/"]Kyle Shanahan says he wanted Texans to take John Beck with 10th pick in 2007 | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]

that confirms but earlier statement!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;821135]
And, while it's not a topic I want to keep talking about as I prefer to just move on, I've heard repeatedly from many people the McNabb talk was initially pushed by Bruce Allen.[/quote]

Well he's coming from Tampa, where Jon Gruden changed quarterbacks like he changed underwear, so it makes sense...

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;821136]that confirms but earlier statement![/quote]

Apart from the fact that statement doesn't make sense...what statement are you talking about?

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

A more direct quote from Kyle about Beck and the 2007 Draft:
[QUOTE][B]Monday: Washington Redskins; Ashburn, Va.[/B]

Everyone think this is a bit harebrained, handing the starting job to a guy who's never done it in the NFL, who surrendered three seasons of college football training to go on a Mormon mission. "I guess that's expected,'' the confident and exceedingly well-spoken John Beck said after the morning practice. "I don't take the time to think about it. I have so much respect for Steve Young [they're both former BYU quarterbacks], and he told me, 'Don't try to figure out the why.' It's mental quicksand.

"Nobody thinks the red-haired freckled kid who missed three years of football for a mission is going to make it. But finally I feel a system in the NFL is right for me. This offense relies on the quarterback to make quick decisions, to have accuracy, to use your legs to get outside and make plays.''

I'm not sure after talking to Mike Shanahan and his offensive coordinator son, Kyle, who likes Beck more. Kyle: "My first year as a position coach in the league, Houston had me scout all the quarterbacks coming out that year,'' Kyle Shanahan said. "That was the JaMarcus Russell year, with Brady Quinn, Trent Edwards, Kevin Kolb and Beck. So they asked me who I'd pick if I had the 10th pick in the draft. I told them Beck. They said he's not worth the 10th pick in the draft. I was standing on the table for him. I've never seen a guy play that well in college.''

Beck turns 30 in two weeks. Mike Shanahan has implied that he'll get the starting nod over Rex Grossman. Beck's had some rough practices this summer. But knowing the Shanahans, they're not going to cave if they think Beck's good enough. I think he'll start that emotional season opener against the Giants on 9/11.

Read more: [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/08/08/tour/index.html#ixzz1UTFju5M3]Philadelphia Eagles can redo*contracts for Michael Vick,*DeSean*Jackson and still be under NFL cap - Peter King - SI.com[/url][/QUOTE]

On a side note, Steve Young has already mentored one talented late bloomer. Lets hope he can do it again.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Well it really sucks we won't see Beck play this Friday due to his groin injury. That blows. I really wanted to see him in action against the steelers D

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;821166]Well it really sucks we won't see Beck play this Friday due to his groin injury. That blows. I really wanted to see him in action against the steelers D[/quote]

Is there a more recent update than this?

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/john-beck-says-hell-be-ready-for-steelers/2011/08/08/gIQA3O1b2I_blog.html]John Beck says he’ll be ready for Steelers - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;821181]Is there a more recent update than this?

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/john-beck-says-hell-be-ready-for-steelers/2011/08/08/gIQA3O1b2I_blog.html]John Beck says he’ll be ready for Steelers - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

Hmmm. I saw an article on NFL. com. Let me check and see what was more recent.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;813925]Who know's Beck could be the next Romo?[/quote]

I think not cmon guys what the hell has Romo done? He melts down all the time!!!!! Let's give Beck a chance lets see what he does on the field!!!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;821149]A more direct quote from Kyle about Beck and the 2007 Draft:


On a side note, Steve Young has already mentored one talented late bloomer. Lets hope he can do it again.[/quote]


I say Dan Persa or Nick Foles in 2012. Kellen Moore if we can nab him!!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=tygarcia;821224]I think not cmon guys what the hell has Romo done? He melts down all the time!!!!! Let's give Beck a chance lets see what he does on the field!!![/quote]

Hopefully Beck will simply be the next Beck. Though I will admit a successful campaign from Beck would have many compare any rise by him to that of Drew Brees.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;821243]Hopefully Beck will simply be the next Beck. Though I will admit a successful campaign from Beck would have many compare any rise by him to that of Drew Brees.[/quote]


Brees was a better college QB than Beck. The best analogy if Beck does become a solid QB would be with Kurt Warner, but not so bad, since Warner was bagging groceries at one point. Beck could surprise us all, but if he is having a rough preseason and already getting a groin tweak, I am not so sure. It is early in camp though, so we have to hold final judgement til the end of preseason at the earliest.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=tygarcia;821224]I think not cmon guys what the hell has Romo done? He melts down all the time!!!!! Let's give Beck a chance lets see what he does on the field!!![/quote]

Tony's a good QB

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I'm going to be comparing Kolb and Beck this year. Both were high 2nd round picks in 2007 with limited NFL opportunities and limited success. I want to see if Kolb is really worth a 2nd round pick and a starter on defense vs. Beck's practice squad compensation.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;821251]I'm going to be comparing Kolb and Beck this year. Both were high 2nd round picks in 2007 with limited NFL opportunities and limited success. I want to see if Kolb is really worth a 2nd round pick and a starter on defense vs. Beck's practice squad compensation.[/quote]

Beck will have just as many TDs watch

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

The Cards gave too much for Kolb. I think he will pan out, but isn't going to get Arizona to the promised land anytime soon. Beck is struggling at camp they say, and with him already getting injured isn't a good omen. I know it isn't serious, but still. The Shannys have put there reps on the line for saying this guy is the real deal and he has this happen. I'll tell you one thing, if Beck doesn't pan out and is a bust, Shanny is going to get it.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;821244]Brees was a better college QB than Beck. The best analogy if Beck does become a solid QB would be with Kurt Warner, but not so bad, since Warner was bagging groceries at one point. Beck could surprise us all, but if he is having a rough preseason and already getting a groin tweak, I am not so sure. It is early in camp though, so we have to hold final judgement til the end of preseason at the earliest.[/quote]

Honestly though, I can't think of a QB thats ever been in Becks situation thats turned around his career. And thats not a bad thing because I can't think of any 2nd or 3rd round QB's that were really given an actual shot with another team. For him to be a Brees he would have had to have a breakout year they year they drafted Henne only to have the team eventually say we're going with Henne.

He wasn't undrafted like Warner or Romo. Wasn't a big trade like Favre to the Packers. Steve Young went to the USFL.

The only reason I mention Brees is because thats the guy he seemed to be compared to a lot when he was coming out of college. (2:45 with Steve Young)
[YT]MflFK7Q0o9E[/YT]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

I think it would just be great if it's Kellen Clemens...or Ben Chappell (though considerably less likely) that emerges from this as the man at QB