Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

This holdout is getting more interesting by the day. On one hand, Quinn was chosen late in the first round, but on the other hand he is a top quarterback prospect. So the Browns are like, hey, we want to pay you like the 22nd pick should be paid - and that's fair. Quinn's agent wants him to get paid like he's the man, and to some that's fair too.

I think the bigger question, at least in mind, is do players respect the game anymore? I'm sure people that know Quinn personally will tell you,to a person, that Brady loves Cleveland, loves football, blah, blah. But couldn't he step in and end this and bring his ass to camp? It's bad enough you have guys that are already in the league that have this sense of entitlement. Lance Briggs and Strahan are two that jump out at me for some reason.

But now a days, you have these kids coming straight out of college that want it all. Help me out here please....

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/news/story?id=2960669"]ESPN - Browns impatient as QB Quinn holdout continues - NFL[/URL]

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

I think they could meet somewhere in the middle on this one, I don't think Quinn should be paid like a top ten pick because he wasn't one, but on the other hand he's a top ten talent. Pay him like the 16th draft pick would be paid, that's kinda meeting in the middle. And if all that Quinn loves football, loves Cleveland, talk is true, then he would've accepted the first thing they threw at him because he wouldn't want to miss any time.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

I agree. The Browns know they got lucky to get the kid at 22, but by the same token you would think he wouldn't be playing hard ball with them. He's definitely falling out of favor with the fans every day this thing lingers.

I hate to say it, but I think playing at USC breeds this mentality in these college athletes. They're constantly in the spot light and placed on a pedal stool.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

I don't see Quinn's point of view in even the slightest bit. If he was a "top QB prospect", then somebody would have taken him higher. The fact that 21 teams passed on him means exactly this: there are 21 players deemed to be worth more to their teams.

He should shut up and get paid like the 22nd pick.

Easy for me to say, because it's millions of dollars at stake. But you can't deny the logic.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;336043]I agree. The Browns know they got lucky to get the kid at 22, but by the same token you would think he wouldn't be playing hard ball with them. He's definitely falling out of favor with the fans every day this thing lingers.

I hate to say it, but I think playing at USC breeds this mentality in these college athletes. They're constantly in the spot light and placed on a peddle stool.[/QUOTE]

But what does USC have to do with Brady Quinn? Didn't he play at Notre Dame?

I think I can't begrudge the man for going for as much as possible. That said though, whether or not he's a top 10 talent shouldn't matter as much as where he actually selected. You can load up his contract with incentives but the basics of the salary should be relatively in accordance with where he was selected, in my opinion.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=12thMan;336043]I agree. The Browns know they got lucky to get the kid at 22, but by the same token you would think he wouldn't be playing hard ball with them. He's definitely falling out of favor with the fans every day this thing lingers.

I hate to say it, but I think playing at USC breeds this mentality in these college athletes. They're constantly in the spot light and placed on a peddle stool.[/quote]

Quinn played at Notre Dame. But the USC effect you speak of might still apply to ND players; no college gets ND's national TV coverage.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

Oh shit...too many beers...ummm...I thinking about that asshole Leinert. (sp)
Funny...damn!! You guys know what I mean!!!

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=12thMan;336047]Oh shit...too many beers...ummm...I thinking about that asshole Leinert. (sp)
Funny...damn!! You guys know what I mean!!![/quote]

Well one thing's for damn sure... Leinart is a major asshole!

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

you know that's one of the things i think i appreciate about the skins under gibbs. i honestly think these guys want to win and care about the team and the city. for the most part this seems like a pretty level headed bunch.

i can't really think of one guy i would consider an asshole on the skins...

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

....then again, lloyd is pretty close. the jury's still out on him...

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

The way I look at situations like this is that a player shouldn't hold out until he proves himself in the NFL. Then again we are talking about maybe one of the most desperate franchises in the NFL.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

Isn't Condon notorious for doing this though?

I mean, yeah, I'm sure Quinn would like to be in camp and hes taking a PR hit by not being in camp, but I think theres a reason hes staying out of the negotiation process. It's a no win situation for him. The market value for a franchise QB is much higher than the market value of the 22nd pick, so when both sides have leverage, shit like this happens. Quinn, and QBs in general are unlikely to hold out at any point because they have so much value to the team so he has to get a better than market value contract now while he still has leverage.

In a month, this will all be water under the bridge anyway.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=Schneed10;336044]I don't see Quinn's point of view in even the slightest bit. If he was a "top QB prospect", then somebody would have taken him higher. The fact that 21 teams passed on him means exactly this: there are 21 players deemed to be worth more to their teams.

He should shut up and get paid like the 22nd pick.

Easy for me to say, because it's millions of dollars at stake. But you can't deny the logic.[/quote]He thinks he's the franchise QB. I mean, it's completely subjective whether or not you think the Browns took him for value (like the Pack did with Rodgers), or to be the franchise QB (like we did with Campbell), but if hes going to be the starting QB for many years, hes going to want to be paid like one.

If the Browns think Quinn is a "top QB prospect" (they did trade their 2008 first rounder to get him...and they are Cleveland), thats really all the leverage he needs. Doesn't matter what 31 other teams think.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

Good point, GT. Now that I think about it, some of this has to do with Russell still holding out. What I mean is, I'm sure Condon is slotting his client right behind Russell to see what kind of deal he's going to get, and possibly bring Quinn within striking distance of that.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;336055]He thinks he's the franchise QB. I mean, it's completely subjective whether or not you think the Browns took him for value (like the Pack did with Rodgers), or to be the franchise QB (like we did with Campbell), but if hes going to be the starting QB for many years, hes going to want to be paid like one.[/quote]

I think teams are being more cautious now in the wake of guys like Heath Shuler, Tim Couch, ummmm...what's his face...San Diego? Yeah, Ryan Leaf!!! So there's no guarantee a guy is a franchise QB until he becomes a franchise QB.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=12thMan;336057]I think teams are being more cautious now in the wake of guys like Heath Shuler, Tim Couch, ummmm...what's his face...San Diego? Yeah, Ryan Leaf!!! So there's no guarantee a guy is a franchise QB until he becomes a franchise QB.[/quote]QB projection system!

Which admittenly is irrelevant given the general ignorance of the system around the league (Save Philly). Still, the Packers could make your argument with Rogers since he fell into their laps. The Browns gave up a lot to get Quinn, and they obviously value him.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=Schneed10;336044]I don't see Quinn's point of view in even the slightest bit. If he was a "top QB prospect", then somebody would have taken him higher. The fact that 21 teams passed on him means exactly this: there are 21 players deemed to be worth more to their teams.

He should shut up and get paid like the 22nd pick.

Easy for me to say, because it's millions of dollars at stake. But you can't deny the logic.[/quote]


Same situation as Aaron Rogers. Thought to be drafted high and slipped to the 20's. Was Aaron Rogers paid like a number 1 pick (Where he could have gone) I dont think so. So Quinn shut up get your ass in camp and play for the number 22 pick money.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

Why is it that people think ill of someone for trying to get the maximum they possibly can? Unless you are foolish, I bet every single person in here would be making the same business decision Quinn is making. If the Browns don't want to pay him what he is asking for they should let him sit the fuck out.

I subscribe to Business 101...get paid the most amount of money doing the least amount of work.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;336059]QB projection system!

Which admittenly is irrelevant given the general ignorance of the system around the league (Save Philly). Still, the Packers could make your argument with Rogers since he fell into their laps. The Browns gave up a lot to get Quinn, and they obviously value him.[/quote]

See, I knew I made the right choice by picking you as talent evaluator.But still, the Packers have a Hall of Famer in front of Rodgers, that's the difference. So to some extent, we're talking apples and oranges with those situations.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=saden1;336062]Why is it that people think ill of someone for trying to get the maximum they possibly can? Unless you are foolish, I bet every single person in here would be making the same business decision Quinn is making. If the Browns don't want to pay him what he is asking for they should let him sit the fuck out.

I subscribe to Business 101...get paid the most amount of money doing the least amount of work.[/quote]

No, no, no...bro I'm with the biz 101 thing - trust me. But where do you draw the line? Let's face it, Quinn is going to get paid, but then he has to line up on Sunday and make the city of Cleveland fall in love with the Browns again. That's not a business decision, that's a heart thing. Where's the line is what I'm asking?

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

Let me first say that I'm a huge ND fan, and I loved Quinn when he was our QB. He was great for us, and I agree that he probably should have been a top ten pick, although it pisses me off that he and his agent are holding to this perception in their negotiations. What a bunch of shit...I'm sure we all perceive ourselves to be in higher pay grades. While perception is reality in some cases in America this is not one. I agree with all those who posted before saying he hasn't proven shit...and until he does he should take 22nd pick money.

I guess I also see a problem in general with the NFL in this respect, so much of the precious cap money is wasted on shitty ass college prospects that take their first big check and turn into non productive, fat, complaining, bitching, fighting, whining, wastes of money. I mean there is a laundry list of Ryan Leaf's and Lendale White's out there that are dead money for teams...

Ok, time for another beer, I will step down off my soapbox and defer to the kind Gentlemen from elsewhere.

WAR ND
WAR REDSKINS
WAR USMC
God Bless America....and I'm out....

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=IrishSkins Fan;336069]Let me first say that I'm a huge ND fan, and I loved Quinn when he was our QB. He was great for us, and I agree that he probably should have been a top ten pick, although it pisses me off that he and his agent are holding to this perception in their negotiations. What a bunch of shit...I'm sure we all perceive ourselves to be in higher pay grades. While perception is reality in some cases in America this is not one. I agree with all those who posted before saying he hasn't proven shit...and until he does he should take 22nd pick money.

I guess I also see a problem in general with the NFL in this respect, so much of the precious cap money is wasted on shitty ass college prospects that take their first big check and turn into non productive, fat, complaining, bitching, fighting, whining, wastes of money. I mean there is a laundry list of Ryan Leaf's and Lendale White's out there that are dead money for teams...

Ok, time for another beer, I will step down off my soapbox and defer to the kind Gentlemen from elsewhere.

WAR ND
WAR REDSKINS
WAR USMC
God Bless America....and I'm out....[/quote]

Preach on brotha! And keep drinkin that damn beer!!!!

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;336055]He thinks he's the franchise QB. I mean, it's completely subjective whether or not you think the Browns took him for value (like the Pack did with Rodgers), or to be the franchise QB (like we did with Campbell), but if hes going to be the starting QB for many years, hes going to want to be paid like one.

If the Browns think Quinn is a "top QB prospect" (they did trade their 2008 first rounder to get him...and they are Cleveland), thats really all the leverage he needs. Doesn't matter what 31 other teams think.[/quote]

OK fine, he wants to be paid like a starting QB, that's fine. But if Brady Quinn thinks he can dictate the market value for starting QBs in their rookie season who are drafted in the 20s of the first round, he's got another thing coming.

Let's say Brady Quinn thinks he's going to start for a long time. Jason Campbell's starting for a long time for us, he was drafted 25th. He's getting $8 million over 5 years with a signing bonus of less than $1 million.

Aaron Rodgers didn't get much more than that. Explain to me what leg Quinn has to stand on if he's trying to ask for much more than that?

You can think you're a starter and a franchise QB all you want, but the market is what guides your value. The Browns have no reason to rush Quinn into action in his rookie season; it's not like he's going to be their savior this year. The Browns have all the leverage here, and Quinn's grasping at straws.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

I mean the key questions here are:

- What makes Brady Quinn any different from Aaron Rodgers and Jason Campbell?

- If the NFL (ie, THE MARKET) had a general consensus in place that Quinn was a top 10 pick, then why did he fall all the way to 22?

Answers:

Quinn's situation is no different from the situations of Rodgers and Campbell.

He fell to 22 because teams felt there were 21 other players who would help their team more. And when some of those teams were offered a trade by anyone interested in trading up for Quinn, the Browns didn't offer enough to make it worthwhile to trade down. That tells me that even the Browns had limits on their opinion of Quinn.

Of course they're going to say "We think Brady Quinn will be a great QB in this league." Doesn't mean he should get paid like Leinart or Carson Palmer. After all, the 'Skins thought Jason Campbell would be great, and he got 8 million over 5 years.

Quinn's got nothing.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=Schneed10;336075]I mean the key questions here are:

- What makes Brady Quinn any different from Aaron Rodgers and Jason Campbell?

- If the NFL (ie, THE MARKET) had a general consensus in place that Quinn was a top 10 pick, then [B]why did he fall all the way to 22[/B]?[/quote]


Because no team from 9-22 needed a quarterback that badly to pick him up.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=12thMan;336064]No, no, no...bro I'm with the biz 101 thing - trust me. But where do you draw the line? [/quote]

The line is drawn when there is compromise. If he doesn't want to compromise let his ass sit out and watch TV.

[quote=12thMan;336064]Let's face it, Quinn is going to get paid, but then he has to line up on Sunday and make the city of Cleveland fall in love with the Browns again. That's not a business decision, that's a heart thing. Where's the line is what I'm asking?[/quote]

What happens if he doesn't produce? He'll get kicked to the curb. There is no love in the NFL, all people care about is winning. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get people excited but your first priority is to get paid. Once that's out of the way then flirty with "love." If "love" wasn't meant to be, you still got paid :)

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=Schneed10;336074]OK fine, he wants to be paid like a starting QB, that's fine. But if Brady Quinn thinks he can dictate the market value for starting QBs in their rookie season who are drafted in the 20s of the first round, he's got another thing coming.

Let's say Brady Quinn thinks he's going to start for a long time. Jason Campbell's starting for a long time for us, he was drafted 25th. He's getting $8 million over 5 years with a signing bonus of less than $1 million.

Aaron Rodgers didn't get much more than that. Explain to me [B]what leg Quinn has to stand on[/B] if he's trying to ask for much more than that?

You can think you're a starter and a franchise QB all you want, but the market is what guides your value. The Browns have no reason to rush Quinn into action in his rookie season; it's not like he's going to be their savior this year. The Browns have all the leverage here, and Quinn's grasping at straws.[/quote]


Quinn has no legs to stand on but that shouldn't preclude him and his agent from trying. If I was the owner I would tell him to go suck a d*ck! Plain, simple and to the point, though crude.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=Schneed10;336075]I mean the key questions here are:

- What makes Brady Quinn any different from Aaron Rodgers and Jason Campbell?

- If the NFL (ie, THE MARKET) had a general consensus in place that Quinn was a top 10 pick, then why did he fall all the way to 22?

Answers:

Quinn's situation is no different from the situations of Rodgers and Campbell.

He fell to 22 because teams felt there were 21 other players who would help their team more. And when some of those teams were offered a trade by anyone interested in trading up for Quinn, the Browns didn't offer enough to make it worthwhile to trade down. That tells me that even the Browns had limits on their opinion of Quinn.

Of course they're going to say "We think Brady Quinn will be a great QB in this league." Doesn't mean he should get paid like Leinart or Carson Palmer. After all, the 'Skins thought Jason Campbell would be great, and he got 8 million over 5 years.

Quinn's got nothing.[/quote]The Cleveland Browns, perennial losers (and likely this next year also) traded a first round pick to [I]move up[/I] and get Brady Quinn.

That did not happen in Campbell's case, nor in Rodgers. Thats the difference here.

I don't think hes looking for top ten pay (if he is, Condon is insane). He's just looking to leapfrog a few pay spots because his services are apparently more valuable to Cleveland than Reggie Nelson's are to Jacksonville, or Aaron Ross' are to the Giants.

I don't think many would disagree with that. The Browns leverage is to say that they took him at 22, and he should be paid accordingly, but if they honestly believe they can sell the farm to trade for a guy, and come back and say he doesnt have more value than the people taken ahead of him...then I can't see this deal getting done anytime soon.

Saying that the Browns have all the leverage here is blatently false. If Quinn doesn't sign, he likely goes back into the draft, and gets picked in the 2nd round next year as a flier. He loses a little money over what he would have gotten by giving in. Meanwhile the Browns totally lose a second round pick in 2007 and a first rounder in 2008, and their entire coaching staff and front office gets whacked!

I'd say Quinn's got the leverage, although its clearly in both parties best interest (as always) to compromise.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;336083]The Cleveland Browns, perennial losers (and likely this next year also) traded a first round pick to [I]move up[/I] and get Brady Quinn.

That did not happen in Campbell's case, nor in Rodgers. Thats the difference here.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure the Redskins traded a first round pick (among other things) to move up and draft Campbell

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Quinn is being stupid. I mean come on..........it is what it is! 22nd pick, 22nd money. Plain and simple. The browns wouldn't have this problem if they would have drafted Troy Smith!

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

This notion of he's a Top 10 talent is ridiculous. He was drafted 22nd overall and should be paid accordingly. Cleveland is somewhat over the barrel because they can't just say 'screw you, here's our offer, call us when you're ready to accept' because they gave up next year's #1 and the fans would crucify them if they did that for nothing.

That being said, if you think you are that talented, think you are that much of a stud, think you are 'that guy' then load that contract with incentives, play to your talent, cash in and either re-sign for the long haul or bounce out at the end of your deal.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;336062]Why is it that people think ill of someone for trying to get the maximum they possibly can? Unless you are foolish, I bet every single person in here would be making the same business decision Quinn is making. If the Browns don't want to pay him what he is asking for they should let him sit the fuck out.

I subscribe to Business 101...get paid the most amount of money doing the least amount of work.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% with your description of Business 101 when it comes to 99.9999% of the population. I don't think, however, that Quinn, as an NFL QB, is being particularly smart about the matter. As an NFL rookie who will likely be asked to step in and start a few games this season at the game's most demanding position, he probably should get into camp as fast as possible. I can understand wanting to get paid like a star now, but I just question whether his desire for a great rookie contract is going to affect his on-field performance, development, etc. and eventually cost him $ when his rookie deal expires.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

I think the main issue, as I understand it, is what kind of money Quinn would be getting two or three years down the road when he is (most likely) the starter.

But you'd think they'd just deal with that when the time comes

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;336044]I don't see Quinn's point of view in even the slightest bit. If he was a "top QB prospect", then somebody would have taken him higher. The fact that 21 teams passed on him means exactly this: there are 21 players deemed to be worth more to their teams.

He should shut up and get paid like the 22nd pick.

Easy for me to say, because it's millions of dollars at stake. But you can't deny the logic.[/QUOTE]

I'm with you. He should get paid for where he was drafted. That's how it works. If I was Cle I would let him sit the whole year. Release the contract that was offered. Show that it is right bewteen the 21 and 23 picks and then let him be the total douche. This is stupid.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

Dam that sukz

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;336090]I'm pretty sure the Redskins traded a first round pick (among other things) to move up and draft Campbell[/quote]Yeah, totally slipped my mind.

Even still, the price on Quinn was still significantly higher than the price on JC, trading up from the 2nd round as opposed to swapping a pick from one year to the next. And I also think that the fact that the Browns traded up [B]specifically[/B] to get Quinn whereas the Skins wanted to target a QB at 25 (and made the trade 3 weeks prior to the draft) definately seperates the value even further.

Still, I'm shocked that Campbell's deal wasn't leaps and bounds better than Rodgers'.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=Crat92;336101]Quinn is being stupid. I mean come on..........it is what it is! 22nd pick, 22nd money. Plain and simple. The browns wouldn't have this problem if they would have drafted Troy Smith![/quote]But then they would have a QB that isn't really a NFL prospect instead of a potential franchise cornerstone. That's a lot worse.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

Honestly I wish all rookie contracts earned low pay but had a lot of potential escalators and performance bonuses in them. That way if they light things up and reached a certain level they would trigger those bonuses, and if they sat on the bench for a couple seasons or so they would get paid accordingly. These contracts are only going to start getting richer and richer because the veterans aren't going to like the rookies getting more money than them.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;336108]I think the main issue, as I understand it, is what kind of money Quinn would be getting two or three years down the road when he is (most likely) the starter.

But you'd think they'd just deal with that when the time comes[/quote]But isn't that what the impasse is all about. It would be a mutiny if Quinn signs a deal today that is less than market value and gets into camp, only to bitch about his deal in 2009. That's why the rookie deal is so important. He not only has to get a fair amount of bonus money, but he has to be well compensated for the 2009, 2010, and 2011 seasons.

All the players in the draft are trying to accomplish this also, but not every player got a team to mortage a future draft for them. Not since...Rocky McIntosh has this last happened.

Re: Is Brady Quinn Being Selfish By Holding Out?
 

Quinn better be worth it