Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

This column by [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091001494.html]Thomas Boswell[/url] (another good one from Bos) got me thinking...(insert joke here)

We've talked a lot about Jason Campbell adjusting to fit the WCO, and if he can't to just cut bait with him. But should we consider the opposite? Should Zorn adjust his scheme (on more than just the occassional shotgun) to suit the skills of Campbell?

I refer back to Joe Gibbs first run as head coach as a comparison. He was brought in to add excitement to the team (particularly the offense) and implement the Air Coryell, aggressive downfield passing attack. But then he saw that he had a huge asset in Riggins and the running game and adjusted accordingly. His ability to do so ultimately made him one of the best head coaches of all time.

At what point do we/should we expect the same of Zorn? (I don't mean expect him to be one of the best all time, I mean expect him to adjust)

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

Yes he should...look what happened when Joe Gibbs adapted to fit Theismann and Riggo!

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

To Zorn's credit he's already said he will allow JC to work out of the gun more. I think we can count this as an adjustment, because Zorn is clearly not a huge fan of the shotgun.

All in all though I really think that Zorn feels he's not asking JC to do something that he's not capable of doing.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I agree with The Ego on both his points. Coaches will adjust their systems to fit their personnel. And if they don't, those coaches find themselves looking for work...

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

No offense, SS, it's a good thread, but god I hope JC has a good game Sunday, so we can take a break from the JC s***.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;474753]This column by [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091001494.html"]Thomas Boswell[/URL] (another good one from Bos) got me thinking...(insert joke here)

We've talked a lot about Jason Campbell adjusting to fit the WCO, and if he can't to just cut bait with him. But should we consider the opposite? Should Zorn adjust his scheme (on more than just the occassional shotgun) to suit the skills of Campbell?

I refer back to Joe Gibbs first run as head coach as a comparison. He was brought in to add excitement to the team (particularly the offense) and implement the Air Coryell, aggressive downfield passing attack. But then he saw that he had a huge asset in Riggins and the running game and adjusted accordingly. His ability to do so ultimately made him one of the best head coaches of all time.

At what point do we/should we expect the same of Zorn? (I don't mean expect him to be one of the best all time, I mean expect him to adjust)[/quote]
Yea but did he really adjust or went with what worked best in his system. He just gave the ball more to Riggins then it opened up the passing game but he did not change anything more than how he called the plays. I take your question as to changing the plays themself to better fit JC which is not going to happen because Zorn believes in the system or he would not have brought it here. He could do minor things to help JC.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

Sherman Smith said they were going to put Campbell in the shot gun more because Campbell said he can see the field better. "But if he still does'nt play well, then we have a problem." Zorn has pretty much left it up to Campbell when to use it. In Zorns own words it does somewhat restrict the running game so you can't use it all the time. They will continue to make adjustments but I seriously doubt they will trash the wco. On a side note, Kelly and Thomas had very good pratices today.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

Pratices? I'm having trouble c ing today.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I really think this whole thing is being over analyzed to death too. I know it sounds like a broken record but it's been one freaking game. Can we just give him the chance to get a grasp on this new offense??

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I agree with Matty but I do think coaches need to fit the scheme to maximize the abilities of the players. No reason that Zorn can't try to get his stuff in and as he evaluates make adjustments that need to be made.

As much as I hate Belichek this is one thing he does well. He makes his schemes fit his players...and well. It's a big reason they win.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

PLEEEEEEASE. JC is 6ft what? Telling me he can't see his wr's? Has anyone thought about checking his eyesight? Time to just MAN UP!

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

The best coaches do that, adapt their style to their players. Look at the difference between Reid and Zorn.. Same coaching tree from Holmgren but Reid has always had significant deep ball components to his game because that's one of McNabb's strengths. He uses the screen more than ever (and more than most WCO teams) because it's Westbrook's strength.. Maximizing your talent to win games is what great coaching is about, not making players excel in 'your scheme'.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

The Campbell thing is being overdone in my opinion. IF Campbell sucks it up all season, look for him to be replaced via the draft for someone Zorn feels fits the west coast system a bit better. Personally, I think Campbell will be fine and be here for many years to come. I think part of the reason JC is getting ripped so hard is how confident he was acting as if the pre-season blowouts and all around meager offensive drives shouldn't be a reason for concern.

PS -- Been swamped, I still read -- havent abandoned ship after the loss =p

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

[quote=redsk1;474765]No offense, SS, it's a good thread, but god I hope JC has a good game Sunday, so we can take a break from the JC s***.[/quote]

Personally, I think that he can be very good in a WCO, and especially when he has Kelly, Thomas , and even Davis in there regularly. Ultimately, Campbell is just one piece (though a large piece) of this new offense.

I agree with Matty that Campbell probably isn't being asked to do anything the coaches don't think he's capable of (to think otherwise is to imply they are setting him up for failure).

But there are plenty of people who are ready to write Campbell off now. And that's fine, I think that's extreme, but their opinion. But before they do, I just wanted to ask simply "What Should Zorn Do?"

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

How come JC can see the guy 5 yards infront of the line but cannot see a guy 18 yards down field. It sounds like he has selective seeing.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I think the point is so he can see the WHOLE field better to switch off one receiver to another.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

He needs help right now to make quick adjustments until he gets comfortable with the offense. Again ... only been one game.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

Let's just see how it goes on Sun. This subject has been beaten to death.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I like the Boswell article--good points, no doubt.

But there's another factor here, one downplayed due to JCs struggles: the rest of the offense has to play BETTER. They're learning this thing too, and they have not always been sharp. Minimize stupid penalties. Pickup the right blocking assignments in both pass pro and the run game. Receivers have to run the right routes---please run PAST the 1st down sticks! And so on. While JC is part of the problem (and hopefully part of the solution!) the rest of the team needs to step it up!!! Give the man some help.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;474794]Personally, I think that he can be very good in a WCO, and especially when he has Kelly, Thomas , and even Davis in there regularly. Ultimately, Campbell is just one piece (though a large piece) of this new offense.

I agree with Matty that Campbell probably isn't being asked to do anything the coaches don't think he's capable of (to think otherwise is to imply they are setting him up for failure).

But there are plenty of people who are ready to write Campbell off now. And that's fine, I think that's extreme, but their opinion. But before they do, I just wanted to ask simply [B]"What Should Zorn Do?"[/B][/quote]

I don't think it was wise for Campbell to publicly ask for more shotgun formations- he probably should have done that behind closed doors. But I am happy to hear Zorn will grant his request to some extent. Hopefully we'll be creative and have some decent running plays set up out of the shotgun as well.

Zorn should absolutely adapt to Campbell. It's a good question with a simple answer really. You can still continue teaching JC the intricacies of the WCO while playing to his strengths, with the shotgun thing as case in point. If a little more shotgun will help JC see the field and coverages a little faster, then run more of it.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

[quote=Paintrain;474791]The best coaches do that, adapt their style to their players. Look at the difference between Reid and Zorn.. Same coaching tree from Holmgren but Reid has always had significant deep ball components to his game because that's one of McNabb's strengths. He uses the screen more than ever (and more than most WCO teams) because it's Westbrook's strength.. Maximizing your talent to win games is what great coaching is about, not making players excel in 'your scheme'.[/quote]

Great point Paintrain. I've always thought Reid is one of the best coaches in the NFL.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I believe its give and take. Let him shotgun it until he's ready (more comfortable) to take it from under center. I believe switching to shotgun is short term. Campbell will make the necessary adjustments and the offense will be flowing. We will have a top 10 offense by week 10. F the naysayers.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

A coach should do whatever it takes to make sure he's QB is in a position to win.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

[quote=firstdown;474767]Yea but did he really adjust or went with what worked best in his system. He just gave the ball more to Riggins then it opened up the passing game but he did not change anything more than how he called the plays. I take your question as to changing the plays themself to better fit JC which is not going to happen because Zorn believes in the system or he would not have brought it here. He could do minor things to help JC.[/quote]

minor? the widespread use of singleback formations and H-backs? (mainly to stop LT)... 91's run run bomb offense? (the other seasons didn't quite look the same).

only a stupid coach wouldn't adjust to fit his players. gibbs did it midway into his 1st year, schotty did it with terrible players here... its a free force multiplier, so you might as well use it.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

look - during gibbs II we were strong on screens, on that 3rd and 2 dump off to cooley, on the moss deep balls, running zone and up to middle, HB passes, etc... use what works. right now the big WRs that are needed for his WCO are sidelined, and two of his best receiving threats are TEs - so use them. line up sellers and alexander as blocking TEs or the goalline, whatever it takes.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

Isn't it the head coaches job to adjust to his teams strengths and design a scheme to fit the players? This is the coaches job and anybody who is not doing that is retarded.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I hate to be harsh, but I think the whole can't see the field thing is just an excuse. Obviously, I don't know for sure, but that's what it sounds like to me. Is a former first round pick who the FO wants to build around really going to admit, "I'm not trusting my receivers. I don't know how to make the right the reads. I don't know what I'm doing in this new offense. I'm overwhelmed."

On a side note, didn't Campbell lobby for a WCO, since he ran it so well in college or was that the brainchild of someone else. I don't remember.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

The prescription for success may have come from JC himself.
He said " I need to get back to playin Jason Campbell football. Just drop back and let it go". JC does not look comfortable, happy. Very tenative.
Maybe he needs to just.......relax and play JC ball?

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

[quote=JWsleep;474809]I like the Boswell article--good points, no doubt.

But there's another factor here, one downplayed due to JCs struggles: the rest of the offense has to play BETTER. They're learning this thing too, and they have not always been sharp. Minimize stupid penalties. Pickup the right blocking assignments in both pass pro and the run game. Receivers have to run the right routes---please run PAST the 1st down sticks! And so on. While JC is part of the problem (and hopefully part of the solution!) the rest of the team needs to step it up!!! Give the man some help.[/quote]

I think this was clearly shown by AREs two false starts....I think when ur WRs are causing false start penalties, your offense is not up to speed.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

i dont care if youre 6 ft 10 its still hard to see receivers that are 5ft 10 and under.. when our other receivers get out there lets see if it helps him any also. hmmmm idea.... can moss, thrash, portis, cooley and ARE run fast wearing 2foot stilts?

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I don't think we need to change the system entirely because that would over compensating imo but good coaches do adjust the system to fit their players. It seems to me Zorn is doing that to help out Jason right now so hopefully this will help him become better. But this thing will take time, so it's important to not overreact too much after one game. If this becomes a problem the entire season then yes it may be warranted but right now it's too early to tell.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

In the end, its up to JC to get it done. I think Zorn has been adapting to JC all along.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;474753]This column by [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091001494.html"]Thomas Boswell[/URL] (another good one from Bos) got me thinking...(insert joke here)

We've talked a lot about Jason Campbell adjusting to fit the WCO, and if he can't to just cut bait with him. But should we consider the opposite? Should Zorn adjust his scheme (on more than just the occassional shotgun) to suit the skills of Campbell?

I refer back to Joe Gibbs first run as head coach as a comparison. He was brought in to add excitement to the team (particularly the offense) and implement the Air Coryell, aggressive downfield passing attack. But then he saw that he had a huge asset in Riggins and the running game and adjusted accordingly. His ability to do so ultimately made him one of the best head coaches of all time.

At what point do we/should we expect the same of Zorn? (I don't mean expect him to be one of the best all time, I mean expect him to adjust)[/quote]


Why not... sure, what the hell. Let's do whatever it takes to help JC become the awesome QB he really is becuase he is our biggest asset and Zorn should adjust accordingly.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

Kind of early for Zorn to be adjusting to Campbell. I think they are still learning, Campbell learning the system and Zorn learning his offensive personnel.

One adjustment I look for this game, Campbell won't be taking a three step drop to start this game.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I'd like to see him be able to audible to a run out of the shotgun, which I would think plays into CP's strengths and the zone blocking scheme. But it's true, you do take away a good chunk of the running plays in shotgun, and are tipping your hand to the D. Hopefully Zorn will adapt, because this O wasn't built for the WCO.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;474758]To Zorn's credit he's already said he will allow JC to work out of the gun more. I think we can count this as an adjustment, because Zorn is clearly not a huge fan of the shotgun.

All in all though I really think that Zorn feels he's not asking JC to do something that he's not capable of doing.[/quote]

Yes that maybe true, but it isn't like we have the ideal receivers to run the WCO. I know that the seattle receivers aren't really tall, but they aren't as short as Randle El and Moss. It is hard when you take a 3 and 5 step drop and you are hoping that the receiver is going to be to the spot because you can't see over the lineman and they get lost. There is a lot of faith that goes into that type of decision. I would say that it is wise for Zorn to change his philosophy to adapt to Jason's strengths.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

Hopefully Malcolm Kelly will be able to make an impact. Cooley isn't short, throw him the damn ball too!

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

hopefully it will come together..

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

I can see it both ways on this argument. Zorn certainly needs to see the strengths of his QB and adjust his gameplans accordingly, but Zorn is the coach, and it's Zorn's system, so of course, Campbell needs to do the bulk of the adjusting. All in all, I do not think either of them are too dumb to realize that.
I just have a feeling, by midpoint / latter part of the season, we're going to see a REALLY good skins team, but how far we will be in the hole is the question.

Re: Should Zorn Adapt to Campbell?
 

should zorn adjust to campbell?

as much as he can without debihilitating his ability to implement and run how he thinks a winning football team should be run.

(is "debihilitating" a word?)

go skins!!!