A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

I've been participating in several of the threads in this forum pertaining to the Redskins personnel strategy in '08 and discussions on what they should do in '09 and have noticed a very negative tenor to many of the perspectives on what the Redskins have done since Gibbs left.

Much of the criticism has been leveled at the Redskins usage of their three second round picks and the commensurate lack of youth and depth along both their offensive and defensive lines.

I would like to throw out the possibility that at the beginning of the 2008 season, the Redskins made a conscientious decision that '08 would be a transitional year and their personnel approach is a reflection on this. I believe this decision was made for several reasons.
[LIST=1][*][B]First, they understood that many key personnel were aging[/B]. Remember, when Gibbs first arrived they had a three-year plan in place. Consequently you saw them go out and get guys who were already in their prime. Zorn's first year would really mark the end of that window and I believe that the Redskins front office understood the limitations of their current personnel due to age. [*]Secondly, I believe they understood that Zorn would be installing a new offense that would take [B]at least one year[/B] for this group and this quarterback to master. The one area where they lacked depth was at receiver and consequently they saw an opportunity to bolster depth in this area. Furthermore, they knew that their offense was not going to perform for a year anyway so the draft was a good way to address this area because most personnel guys will tell you that [B]it takes several years for receivers to mature[/B]. Don't let Cerrato fool you either - teams most certainly do draft for need and I think you saw that in their '08 draft.[/LIST]Based on these considerations I believe they drafted in preparation for '09 or '10, after which point in time their receivers would have matured and their offense would be in rhythm. The early success however was a surprise and it was probably both a blessing and curse because it inflated our expectations for a team that was most certainly in transition.

So what we have now is a team that is still going through a transitional phase. This coming off-season I would expect to see turnover in at least two or three key positions where veterans are replaced with either current personnel or acquisitions. I think that Springs is probably gone (unless he is willing to renegotiate) as well as Daniels and maybe even Marcus Washington.

In free agency, I would also expect them to pick-up at least defensive lineman., a linebacker, and possibly an offensive lineman as well although I do believe that they think they are strong at LT, C and RG going into '09. Along the defensive line it's hard to imagine them going for a guy like Peppers or Haynesworth (if these guys are even available) however a guy like Canty would help bolster their line and allow them to get more creative with Carter and Taylor (if Taylor returns). At linebacker a guy like Suggs could fill a huge void at outside linebacker and could also help provide a guy capable of rushing the passer.

In the draft I would expect them to look for an opportunity to acquire players along their o-line as well as defensive front seven.

All that being said, I believe they made the following mistakes in '08:
[LIST=1][*]First, they panicked when Daniels and Buzbee went down early in camp and acquired an aging veteran in Jason Taylor in exchange for a second round pick. This was certainly a panic move that brought back bad memories of the Duckett trade and doesn't make sense in the context of a three-year plan. [*]Second, I believe they became greedy when Fred Davis (who I would guess they projected as a first rounder) became available with their second round pick. This pick just makes no sense with the personnel they currently have in place and could have been better applied to address the lack of youth and talent along the O-line and defensive front seven.[/LIST]Overall however, I think they are going to be well positioned going into 2009 with younger, more athletic players along their defensive front seven and offensive line and an offense that has one year in the system (as well as two receivers who are ready to become contributors in '09).

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

good post, i've been thinking exactly the same way (give the receivers time to build a foundation for the offense, as o-lines are easier to put together w/ the right talent.) the only thing i disagree w/ is that the fred davis pick was a mistake. he's gonna be a player either for us or someone else. if it's for us, then great, we will have a mean 2 tight end formation. If it's for someone else, hopefully we will be well compensated in a trade (even though that might be difficult, unless he shows well next preseason/season)

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

Well said Drift. In short you seem to be saying we're just a few additions away from being a complete, competitive team (assuming the WR corp develops and Zorn continues to make JC a better QB), and while I don't know if that is the consensus among fans I do believe many of us are of similar mind. Infusions of young talent along the o-line, OLB and d-line will do wonders for this team.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

I really don't mean to sound like a butthole....but are you not saying the same things we all have been saying all along? At the begginning many said it was not going to be a "rebuilding" year but a transitional year cause the team had to learn a new offense. Many said the team would be 8-8 or 9-7. I myself always predict high at my wonderful 10-6. Although a lot of fans wanted lineman there were others such as myself who said we needed taller WR's. We got them. Many said don't expect to much from them cause it usually takes 2-3 yrs for a rookie WR to learn how to play in the pros. Which is why I wanted CJ. but I'm happy to have two young WR's for our future.

Many said the lines were to old and the average age was 29. We need youth. younger faster healthier linemen on both sides of the ball.

Many said including myself that it would take atleast 2-3 yrs to learn a new offense. Many of us have been slamming Zorn for his lack of putting the new guys on the field but every once in a while we hear how one of the rookies was supposed to zig and they zagged or basically went the wrong way or to deep or not deep enough. which basically proves Zorn was right when saying the rookies don't have all the plays down. Now the question is who's fault is it. or is there any possible way instead of giving them the whole play book and saying learn it the team could have given them 10 or 20 plays a piece and told them to learn them inside and out. Then inserted them periodically to use those plays.

...again not to be a butthole but all this was said and expected, but for what ever reason our high expectations got the better of us along with the teams success. but there are things I'm not seeing that worry me. ...Like Zorn not adjusting during games or during the season when teams figured out what he was doing and tried to counter it ,successfully I might add. Will Zorn give us more of the same...here's my game plan win lose or draw I'm sticking with it or will he learn to adjust during games?

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

good post...no doubt that the early success was all a smokescreen, i think zorn has done a decent job of taking this team to a possible 8-8/9-7 finish. To everyone who thinks this was a playoff team because of what he inherited, look again. They were riding the emotion of losing Sean Taylor and were handily beaten by the currently 5-10 Seahawks...
The skins need to draft a linebacker, and completely revamp the o line. Jansen is done, Rabach is close, and even Samuels was easily handled by Ware (watch the tape, its pathetic). Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly were not going to produce in their first year...that was a given, The Fred Davis pick was a mistake, Calais Campbell or Phillip Merling was available and that would have been more productive than throwing a ton of money at Jason Taylor who has been a bust (by his own admission).
That said, here's hoping the necessary adjustments are made and the 2009 season is a success.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;515637]good post...no doubt that the early success was all a smokescreen, i think zorn has done a decent job of taking this team to a possible 8-8/9-7 finish. To everyone who thinks this was a playoff team because of what he inherited, look again. They were riding the emotion of losing Sean Taylor and were handily beaten by the currently 5-10 Seahawks...
The skins need to draft a linebacker, and completely revamp the o line. Jansen is done, Rabach is close, and even Samuels was easily handled by Ware (watch the tape, its pathetic). Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly were not going to produce in their first year...that was a given, The Fred Davis pick was a mistake, [B]Calais Campbell or Phillip Merling was available and that would have been more productive than throwing a ton of money at Jason Taylor who has been a bust (by his own admission).[/B]
That said, here's hoping the necessary adjustments are made and the 2009 season is a success.[/quote]

I don't really buy Campbell or Merling would have been upgrades over Evans and/or Carter. Taylor had the worst season of his career and while we clearly gave up too much for him, I believe he'll be an impact player next year. As i've said in other threads, there is no way the Jason Taylor wants to end his career on a low note. He'll come back next year and I feel confident predicting him to me a monster again. Also Thomas or Kelly look to be the superfluous pick (remains to be seen which)... I tend to think Davis will have success here because Yoder is on his way out and Davis brings tremendous ability after the catch.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=Drift Reality;515616]I've been participating in several of the threads in this forum pertaining to the Redskins personnel strategy in '08 and discussions on what they should do in '09 and have noticed a very negative tenor to many of the perspectives on what the Redskins have done since Gibbs left.

Much of the criticism has been leveled at the Redskins usage of their three second round picks and the commensurate lack of youth and depth along both their offensive and defensive lines.

I would like to throw out the possibility that at the beginning of the 2008 season, the Redskins made a conscientious decision that '08 would be a transitional year and their personnel approach is a reflection on this. I believe this decision was made for several reasons.
[LIST=1][*][B]First, they understood that many key personnel were aging[/B]. Remember, when Gibbs first arrived they had a three-year plan in place. Consequently you saw them go out and get guys who were already in their prime. Zorn's first year would really mark the end of that window and I believe that the Redskins front office understood the limitations of their current personnel due to age. [*]Secondly, I believe they understood that Zorn would be installing a new offense that would take [B]at least one year[/B] for this group and this quarterback to master. The one area where they lacked depth was at receiver and consequently they saw an opportunity to bolster depth in this area. Furthermore, they knew that their offense was not going to perform for a year anyway so the draft was a good way to address this area because most personnel guys will tell you that [B]it takes several years for receivers to mature[/B]. Don't let Cerrato fool you either - teams most certainly do draft for need and I think you saw that in their '08 draft.[/LIST]Based on these considerations I believe they drafted in preparation for '09 or '10, after which point in time their receivers would have matured and their offense would be in rhythm. The early success however was a surprise and it was probably both a blessing and curse because it inflated our expectations for a team that was most certainly in transition.

So what we have now is a team that is still going through a transitional phase. This coming off-season I would expect to see turnover in at least two or three key positions where veterans are replaced with either current personnel or acquisitions. I think that Springs is probably gone (unless he is willing to renegotiate) as well as Daniels and maybe even Marcus Washington.

In free agency, I would also expect them to pick-up at least defensive lineman., a linebacker, and possibly an offensive lineman as well although I do believe that they think they are strong at LT, C and RG going into '09. Along the defensive line it's hard to imagine them going for a guy like Peppers or Haynesworth (if these guys are even available) however a guy like Canty would help bolster their line and allow them to get more creative with Carter and Taylor (if Taylor returns). At linebacker a guy like Suggs could fill a huge void at outside linebacker and could also help provide a guy capable of rushing the passer.

In the draft I would expect them to look for an opportunity to acquire players along their o-line as well as defensive front seven.

All that being said, I believe they made the following mistakes in '08:
[LIST=1][*]First, they panicked when Daniels and Buzbee went down early in camp and acquired an aging veteran in Jason Taylor in exchange for a second round pick. This was certainly a panic move that brought back bad memories of the Duckett trade and doesn't make sense in the context of a three-year plan. [*]Second, I believe they became greedy when Fred Davis (who I would guess they projected as a first rounder) became available with their second round pick. This pick just makes no sense with the personnel they currently have in place and could have been better applied to address the lack of youth and talent along the O-line and defensive front seven.[/LIST]Overall however, I think they are going to be well positioned going into 2009 with younger, more athletic players along their defensive front seven and offensive line and an offense that has one year in the system (as well as two receivers who are ready to become contributors in '09).[/quote]

I concur.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=The Goat;515639]I don't really buy Campbell or Merling would have been upgrades over Evans and/or Carter. Taylor had the worst season of his career and while we clearly gave up too much for him, I believe he'll be an impact player next year. As i've said in other threads, there is no way the Jason Taylor wants to end his career on a low note. He'll come back next year and I feel confident predicting him to me a monster again. Also Thomas or Kelly look to be the superfluous pick (remains to be seen which)... I tend to think Davis will have success here because Yoder is on his way out and Davis brings tremendous ability after the catch.[/quote]

Good point about Thomas and Kelly, it really does seem like Cerrato was hedging his bets at wideout by picking both of them. I was not on board with the Davis pick and even though I like him as a player and think he will be great for us down the line, it still doesn't make sense. You don't draft a second TE when you 1) have a young Pro Bowler already on your roster and 2) have such glaring needs in other spots, such as O-line.

The problem I see with our personnel strategy is that we are trying to be sexy. Snyder and Cerrato have made a ton of moves over time, trading up and trading down, but outside of Sean Taylor they haven't really drafted or brought in an elite guy. It seems they want to make sexy and splashy picks, trading out of the first round a year ago makes them seem engaged but having none of your second round picks make an impact shows something else. We concentrate our resources on the perimeter and try to "make do" with stopgaps on the line.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=Drift Reality;515616]I've been participating in several of the threads in this forum pertaining to the Redskins personnel strategy in '08 and discussions on what they should do in '09 and have noticed a very negative tenor to many of the perspectives on what the Redskins have done since Gibbs left.

Much of the criticism has been leveled at the Redskins usage of their three second round picks and the commensurate lack of youth and depth along both their offensive and defensive lines.

I would like to throw out the possibility that at the beginning of the 2008 season, the Redskins made a conscientious decision that '08 would be a transitional year and their personnel approach is a reflection on this. I believe this decision was made for several reasons.
[LIST=1][*][B]First, they understood that many key personnel were aging[/B]. Remember, when Gibbs first arrived they had a three-year plan in place. Consequently you saw them go out and get guys who were already in their prime. Zorn's first year would really mark the end of that window and I believe that the Redskins front office understood the limitations of their current personnel due to age. [*]Secondly, I believe they understood that Zorn would be installing a new offense that would take [B]at least one year[/B] for this group and this quarterback to master. The one area where they lacked depth was at receiver and consequently they saw an opportunity to bolster depth in this area. Furthermore, they knew that their offense was not going to perform for a year anyway so the draft was a good way to address this area because most personnel guys will tell you that [B]it takes several years for receivers to mature[/B]. Don't let Cerrato fool you either - teams most certainly do draft for need and I think you saw that in their '08 draft.[/LIST]Based on these considerations I believe they drafted in preparation for '09 or '10, after which point in time their receivers would have matured and their offense would be in rhythm. The early success however was a surprise and it was probably both a blessing and curse because it inflated our expectations for a team that was most certainly in transition.

So what we have now is a team that is still going through a transitional phase. This coming off-season I would expect to see turnover in at least two or three key positions where veterans are replaced with either current personnel or acquisitions. I think that Springs is probably gone (unless he is willing to renegotiate) as well as Daniels and maybe even Marcus Washington.

[B]In free agency, I would also expect them to pick-up at least defensive lineman., a linebacker, and possibly an offensive lineman as well although I do believe that they think they are strong at LT, C and RG going into '09. Along the defensive line it's hard to imagine them going for a guy like Peppers or Haynesworth (if these guys are even available) however a guy like Canty would help bolster their line and allow them to get more creative with Carter and Taylor (if Taylor returns). At linebacker a guy like Suggs could fill a huge void at outside linebacker and could also help provide a guy capable of rushing the passer. [/B]

In the draft I would expect them to look for an opportunity to acquire players along their o-line as well as defensive front seven.

All that being said, I believe they made the following mistakes in '08:
[LIST=1][*]First, they panicked when Daniels and Buzbee went down early in camp and acquired an aging veteran in Jason Taylor in exchange for a second round pick. This was certainly a panic move that brought back bad memories of the Duckett trade and doesn't make sense in the context of a three-year plan. [*]Second, I believe they became greedy when Fred Davis (who I would guess they projected as a first rounder) became available with their second round pick. This pick just makes no sense with the personnel they currently have in place and could have been better applied to address the lack of youth and talent along the O-line and defensive front seven.[/LIST]Overall however, I think they are going to be well positioned going into 2009 with younger, more athletic players along their defensive front seven and offensive line and an offense that has one year in the system (as well as two receivers who are ready to become contributors in '09).[/quote]

I agree with 98% of the rest of your thread, but the FA acquitions seem a bit much. I suspect we will be players, but that quantity seems a bit high.

I think the B&G will be more fiscally responsible than what you have posted.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

dont know why they picked any recievers at all unless they WERE looking to the future. wide outs never produce there first year unless you are randy moss.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=redskinjim;515668]dont know why they picked any recievers at all unless they WERE looking to the future. [B]wide outs never produce there first year unless you are randy moss[/B].[/quote]

Or DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal or Donnie Avery.....

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=GMScud;515669]Or DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal or Donnie Avery.....[/quote]

The reason none of these receivers were picked was due their size. Most fans and Skins personnel thought Moss, ARE and Lloyd were too small and wanted more physical receivers. Everyone was bitching about the size of our receivers so that's what we got. The moral of the story is that you can't go by the physical size of someone, it should be measured by the person heart/desire. Does Wes Welker ring a bell? How about Steve Smith, our own Santana Moss?

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;515671]The reason none of these receivers were picked was due their size. Most fans and Skins personnel thought Moss, ARE and Lloyd were too small and wanted more physical receivers. Everyone was bitching about the size of our receivers so that's what we got. The moral of the story is that you can't go by the physical size of someone, it should be measured by the person heart/desire. Does Wes Welker ring a bell? How about Steve Smith, our own Santana Moss?[/quote]

I wish we had the complimentary pieces that would allow us to use Moss out of the slot more often. That's what makes Welker so dangerous.

And Steve Smith is possibly the best weapon in the league right now. The guy is flat out amazing.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;515671]The reason none of these receivers were picked was due their size. Most fans and Skins personnel thought Moss, ARE and Lloyd were too small and wanted more physical receivers. Everyone was bitching about the size of our receivers so that's what we got. The moral of the story is that you can't go by the physical size of someone, it should be measured by the person heart/desire. Does Wes Welker ring a bell? How about Steve Smith, our own Santana Moss?[/quote]

Agreed. Talent evaluation is the problem.
Our FO drafted two WR's that did care enough to show up in shape to their first camp. That is why they slipped in the draft and were slow to develop. Not a good sign. I question are they the the type of [B]dedicated [/B]athlete we want? Will they work hard in the future to improve?

With all of the injuries on the OL, I am really surprised and [B]disappointed [/B] rookie Guard Chad Rinehart has not played more. He was a 3rd round draft pick, a relatively high pick. He could not outplay Jason Fabini? What does that say about what Rinehart is showing the coaches in practice? Stephon Heyer was started as a rookie last year over Fabini. Why is Rinehart not on the field and why hasn't he beaten out Fabini?
Justin Tyron, Durant Brooks....not good.
Chris Horton is the only draft pick that has looked good on an NFL field.
I know it is early, but so far not a good draft class.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=Defensewins;515673]Agreed. Talent evaluation is the problem.
Our FO drafted two WR's that did care enough to show up in shape to their first camp. That is why they slipped in the draft and were slow to develop. Not a good sign. I question are they the the type of [B]dedicated [/B]athlete we want? Will they work hard in the future to improve?

With all of the injuries on the OL, I am really surprised and [B]disappointed [/B]rookie Guard Chad Rinehart has not played more. He was a 3rd round draft pick, a relatively high pick. He could not outplay Jason Fabini? What does that say about what Rinehart is showing the coaches in practice? Stephon Heyer was started as a rookie last year over Fabini. Why is Rinehart not on the field and why hasn't he beaten out Fabini?
Justin Tyron, Durant Brooks....not good.
Chris Horton is the only draft pick that has looked good on an NFL field.
I know it is early, but so far not a good draft class.[/quote]

Tryon and Brooks were certainly pretty bad picks.

Thomas has struggled to learn the offense, but Malcolm Kelly has had to deal with his knee injury. I do however put that one on the front office. We knew his knee was a red flag before we ever drafted him.

Chad Reinhart has been a disappointment. He hasn't even suited up for a game yet, and it's not like there's a huge learning curve on the O-line when transitioning from rookie to pro. Rookie O-lineman contribute all the time in the NFL - undrafted Stephon Heyer last year is a case in point. You can't label Reinhart a bust after one year, but the fact that we've had a line riddled with injuries and he still hasn't played a single snap... not good at all.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=GMScud;515675]Tryon and Brooks were certainly pretty bad picks.

Thomas has struggled to learn the offense, but Malcolm Kelly has had to deal with his knee injury. I do however put that one on the front office. We knew his knee was a red flag before we ever drafted him.

Chad Reinhart has been a disappointment. He hasn't even suited up for a game yet, and it's not like there's a huge learning curve on the O-line when transitioning from rookie to pro. Rookie O-lineman contribute all the time in the NFL - undrafted Stephon Heyer last year is a case in point. You can't label Reinhart a bust after one year, but the fact that we've had a line riddled with injuries and he still hasn't played a single snap... not good at all.[/quote]

You know what really frustrates me about this FO is Tyron is still on our roster. We can not even put him on the field he is so bad. Why are we wasting our time with him.
I would rather take a chance and steal another talented player off another teams developmental list. This is the time to do that. Maybe a young lineman?

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=Defensewins;515676]You know what really frustrates me about this FO is Tyron is still on our roster. We can not even put him on the field he is so bad. Why are we wasting our time with him.
I would rather take a chance and steal another talented player off another teams developmental list. This is the time to do that. Maybe a young lineman?[/quote]

Yeah I'm not too sure why Tryon is on the roster. I thought he should have been released instead of Torrence earlier this year. They are both young and there's no question who the better player is at this point. Maybe they see his potential and think he's a worthy project. I don't know. If so, that's a mighty big project.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=GMScud;515677]Yeah I'm not too sure why Tryon is on the roster. I thought he should have been released instead of [B]Torrence [/B]earlier this year. They are both young and there's no question who the better player is at this point. Maybe they see his potential and think he's a worthy project. I don't know. If so, that's a mighty big project.[/quote]

I agree. When certain players are making the roster because of where they are drafted instead of the level of their [B]play on the field,[/B] we are going to fail as a team Our FO is slow to cut their loses with certain players is they do not want to admit they were wrong for drafting them. Durant Brooks sucked in preseason, but yet he made the team.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=GMScud;515677]Yeah I'm not too sure why Tryon is on the roster. I thought he should have been released instead of Torrence earlier this year. They are both young and there's no question who the better player is at this point. Maybe they see his potential and think he's a worthy project. I don't know. If so, that's a mighty big project.[/quote]

With regards to Tryon I think there is a lot of ego involved with this one. They spent a moderately valuable draft pick on the guy and I think that means they are going to give him more of a window of opportunity than a guy like Torrence, who is probably a better player. I think that is sort of the way things go in the NFL...

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=SBXVII;515629]I really don't mean to sound like a butthole....but are you not saying the same things we all have been saying all along? At the begginning many said it was not going to be a "rebuilding" year but a transitional year cause the team had to learn a new offense. Many said the team would be 8-8 or 9-7. I myself always predict high at my wonderful 10-6. Although a lot of fans wanted lineman there were others such as myself who said we needed taller WR's. We got them. Many said don't expect to much from them cause it usually takes 2-3 yrs for a rookie WR to learn how to play in the pros. Which is why I wanted CJ. but I'm happy to have two young WR's for our future.

Many said the lines were to old and the average age was 29. We need youth. younger faster healthier linemen on both sides of the ball.

Many said including myself that it would take atleast 2-3 yrs to learn a new offense. Many of us have been slamming Zorn for his lack of putting the new guys on the field but every once in a while we hear how one of the rookies was supposed to zig and they zagged or basically went the wrong way or to deep or not deep enough. which basically proves Zorn was right when saying the rookies don't have all the plays down. Now the question is who's fault is it. or is there any possible way instead of giving them the whole play book and saying learn it the team could have given them 10 or 20 plays a piece and told them to learn them inside and out. Then inserted them periodically to use those plays.

...again not to be a butthole but all this was said and expected, but for what ever reason our high expectations got the better of us along with the teams success. but there are things I'm not seeing that worry me. ...Like Zorn not adjusting during games or during the season when teams figured out what he was doing and tried to counter it ,successfully I might add. Will Zorn give us more of the same...here's my game plan win lose or draw I'm sticking with it or will he learn to adjust during games?[/quote]

I don't think there is anything wrong with sharing your perspective. I certainly don't take offense at anyone saying "Hey - isn't this what we've all been saying?"

However, my general impression from reading articles in the mainstream media as well as grooming through threads in this forum was a great deal of negativity and scrutiny of many of the Redskins moves since Gibbs left.

I was just trying to say, "Let's all take a collective breath and put things in perspective," but trying to define why we should put things in perspective and keep some optimism about this team moving into next season.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=backrow;515657]I agree with 98% of the rest of your thread, but the FA acquitions seem a bit much. I suspect we will be players, but that quantity seems a bit high.

I think the B&G will be more fiscally responsible than what you have posted.[/quote]

You might be right. I think a lot will depend on the market. If Springs and Washington do come off the books however that does open up about 15m in space. I think they will acquire at least one player on the defensive front seven.

A linebacker who can blitz and play on the line in nickel situations like Terrell Suggs or Dansby might be sufficient to address the one seeming deficiency on the defensive side of the ball.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=Drift Reality;515689]You might be right. I think a lot will depend on the market. If Springs and Washington do come off the books however that does open up about 15m in space. I think they will acquire at least one player on the defensive front seven.

A linebacker who can blitz and play on the line in nickel situations like Terrell Suggs or Dansby might be sufficient to address the one seeming deficiency on the defensive side of the ball.[/quote]

I agree. Either would be a nice pickup and be effective. Im thinking...D Line though...over LBs at this point. But if we nabbed either of the players you named id be nearly as happy.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=GMScud;515669]Or DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal or Donnie Avery.....[/quote]


Two words. ...Stan Hixon.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

^ that was me trying to be funny. Our WR have produced little in 5yrs. Moss is our only go to guy and seems to catch a pounding every year. No one else produces and to think ARE is a viable #2 is comical. Our problem is part players part coaching. Look at Coles. He caught a ton with the Jets comes to us and is put on the back burner for our run first offense. He leaves and is a scoring machine. Look at Lloyd. Did Ok in San Fran but became a problem. Came to us and hardly saw the field. Why? He goes to Chicago and does better then here. Why? Stan "the man" Hixon needs to go back to the college level where he was a master and the Skins need to find a viable "NFL" WR's coach.

I truely believe next year we will be better. Hopefully Zorn evaluates the players as well as himself and sees what and who is worth keeping for his offense to work. Hopefully Zorn finds a way to "adjust" during games and seasons and we will be set.

Is that positive enough?

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=SBXVII;515709]^ that was me trying to be funny. Our WR have produced little in 5yrs. Moss is our only go to guy and seems to catch a pounding every year. No one else produces and to think ARE is a viable #2 is comical. Our problem is part players part coaching. Look at Coles. He caught a ton with the Jets comes to us and is put on the back burner for our run first offense. He leaves and is a scoring machine. Look at Lloyd. Did Ok in San Fran but became a problem. Came to us and hardly saw the field. Why? He goes to Chicago and does better then here. Why? Stan "the man" Hixon needs to go back to the college level where he was a master and the Skins need to find a viable "NFL" WR's coach.

I truely believe next year we will be better. Hopefully Zorn evaluates the players as well as himself and sees what and who is worth keeping for his offense to work. Hopefully Zorn finds a way to "adjust" during games and seasons and we will be set.

Is that positive enough?[/quote]

YES!!! Couldn't agree more w/ you bro. When half your WR corp can't run proper routes and the other half (the vets) can't get open consistently, when every WR experiences the dropsies, then yeah the WR coach needs to go. Hopefully Zorn has someone great in mind cause I truly believe aside from an infusion of young talent along the o-line it's our WR performance holding this offense back.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=GMScud;515677]Yeah I'm not too sure why Tryon is on the roster. I thought he should have been released instead of Torrence earlier this year. They are both young and there's no question who the better player is at this point. Maybe they see his potential and think he's a worthy project. I don't know. If so, that's a mighty big project.[/quote]

This is true.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

I think we will address our lines primarily in FA and use the draft to address our LB situation.

in a 4-3 defense, you can get by with just about anybody at LB if you have a dominant defensive line and secondary. Here is how i see our FA and draft playing out:

TRADE carlos Rogers for a 2nd round pick.
CUT Washington, Smoot, Taylor, Griff (yes, i think we keep Springs).
I also dont think we will count on McIntosh being a starter next year. This leaves us with the following STARTING NEEDS on defense in 2009:

1DT, 1DE, 2LB, #2/3CB

I also think we will see replacements for starters with players not currently on our roster at RT and C (Rinehart will replace Kendal at LG).

So that means our team will need 7 new starters (with players not currently on our roster) next year. here is how i think we will fill them:

[B]Free Agency:[/B]
DT - Haynesworth will be the only "huge" FA signing. If we can't land him, I think we go with someone like Shaun Cody.
DE - Chris Canty is a good fit here. He won't break the bank and will be an upgrade over Taylor.
CB - Chris Gamble
OT - Mark Tauscher - Replaces Jansen immediately

[B]Draft:[/B]
1st Round - Best OLB available. He will be a starter on opening day.
2nd Round - Best C Available. This guy will be our starter. I know we dont have a 2nd round pick, but i'm assuming we can get a 2nd rounder for Carlos Rogers from someone.
3rd Round - Best LB available. He will compete with McIntosh for the starting spot.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

BigHair- Gamble signed a phat contract with Carolina a few weeks ago to my dismay. I liked the idea of him as well.

And Tauscher is the same age/mileage as Jansen. Not sure how much of an upgrade he'd be.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;516212]I think we will address our lines primarily in FA and use the draft to address our LB situation.

in a 4-3 defense, you can get by with just about anybody at LB if you have a dominant defensive line and secondary. Here is how i see our FA and draft playing out:

TRADE carlos Rogers for a 2nd round pick.
CUT Washington, Smoot, Taylor, Griff (yes, i think we keep Springs).
I also dont think we will count on McIntosh being a starter next year. This leaves us with the following STARTING NEEDS on defense in 2009:
[/quote]

One thing I would say here is that I really believe that cutting all the veterans you mention would have a negative net impact on the locker room. I am a firm believer that the Redskins do have a solid locker room and veteran leadership. I think there are some clear cases of performance/compensation issues with the veterans you mention however I'd be wary of doing a complete hack job.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;515671]The reason none of these receivers were picked was due their size. Most fans and Skins personnel thought Moss, ARE and Lloyd were too small and wanted more physical receivers. Everyone was bitching about the size of our receivers so that's what we got. The moral of the story is that you can't go by the physical size of someone, it should be measured by the person heart/desire. Does Wes Welker ring a bell? How about Steve Smith, our own Santana Moss?[/quote]

guys we've been talking for YEARS about how long it takes WRs to progress...how many times did we hear that THIS was the year Taylor Jacobs was going to dominate? Mike Westbrook? Desmond Howard? Albert Connell? McCants? Mix? Gardner (was good)? Of course its too early to label the WR class of 2008 a bust (just as it was with the other guys), but at some point in the near future, the walks like a duck, talks like a duck test must be implemented...

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

I honestly think that Malcolm Kelly, if healthy, could be a beast. A few game sback (one that he did play) JC over threw him in the end zone, but he sky rocketed over the DB and he can hop.

I think he can be a big time red zone threat.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

Eugene (Richmond): Mr. Matt Sir, If you was the GM of the skins, what would you do in the draft and free agency?

SportsNation Matt Mosley: (1:00 PM ET ) Eugene:

I'd try to re-stock the offensive and defensive lines. I'd go find the best pass-rushers in the draft and try to bring one of them in. And I'd see who's out there as a wide receiver in free agency. The mighty mites aren't getting it done. Randle El doesn't need to be a No. 2 wide receiver. A consistent pass-rusher would be great.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

Jansen to Tauscher is a lateral move, if that. GBs line was a big reason for their offensive decline, despite more production from the QB and WR positions. Tauscher is done, kaput.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

[quote=GMScud;515669]Or DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal or Donnie Avery.....[/quote]

now they did produce as far as catchs, but how many touchdowns did they have between all 3 guys, i bet less than 10 combined.....i dont blame us for picking who we did over those guys......eddie royal seems the most talented to me and remember he played under shanahan too, that guy seems to just make guys work in his system. the other guys will never have more than 8 touchdowns in a season so they arent that great anyways..........but i know you are going to point to production and they did out produce, but talent wise i am willing to bet in the long run our guys will be better. oh and all three had a probowl caliaber quarterback throwing to them.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

(focusing on our defense)

ive always been a Marcus Washington fan but its time to cut em.

Cut Washington, Smoot, Griffin.

Springs should return. cool.

DO NOT CUT.... JASON TAYLOR, OR TRADE F*KIN CARLOS ROGERS!
HOW IS THAT LOGICLE!?... Were cannot trade our shut down corner.
And Taylor should stay...i need no breakdown.. ive argued for him before.

FA wise..Haynesworth is where its at. I think hell be a skin.

Then we work with the draft from there

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

Hi - I'm new here, having seen warpath's truly excellent stat page in a thread on extremeskins:

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm[/url]

I used to be an extremeskins member, and would be still, but they ignore my password reset requests as well as my new membership applications. So it goes.

it seem to me that the following cuts will be made:

gone:
taylor 8.5M 0.0M ( 8.5M saved )
springs 8.5M 2.5M ( 6.0M saved )
washington 6.5M 2.0M ( 4.5M saved )
rabach 3.6M 1.3M ( 2.3M saved)
daniels 2.0M 0.1M ( 1.9M saved )

(btw, these are post June 1st cut numbers)

where the second number is the 2009 cap hit.

Rabach might not get cut because his 3.6M cap number is modest, even if his production is that as well. Love Springs and Washington, but they can't stay on the field long enough to justify their salaries.

It's very tough to argue for Jason Taylor to stay for 8.5M when we could be possibly entering the Terrell Suggs auction.

Griffin costs 6.1M to keep and 2.5M to cut, but how many DT do we want to cut loose before next training camp? Montgomery, Golston, Evans and heck, even Boschetti are testing the FA waters as we speak.

The really interesting contract is Jansen's. And by interesting I mean bad:

Next year in 2009 he'll be 3.4M to keep, and almost 6.2M to cut. And if we wait until the following season's june 1st he'll be 6.4M to keep and 4.1M to cut, which is an awful lot to pay in dead money for someone who seems to have been on a steady decline for years.

Perhaps that's part of the reason that he's been talked about lately as the backup center to Rabach, prepping for an eventual move to that position, because he's not going anywhere else except the pine.

Cutting just those five players drops the salary number for 2009 29.1M, from 116.6M to 87.5M, which is a lot of cap room.

I'd prefer that the skins stop signing FA players on the wrong end of 30, and even more, giving up multiple draft picks for them - an unpardonable sin (see Brunell, Taylor, Kendall)

As far as trading away players, Carlos Rogers would be expensive to trade given signing bonus acceleration. And, he's a very good corner.

The only person who might be tradable is Rocky McIntosh, where 2009 is the last year of his contract. There aren't a lot of options for the redskins here.

Overall, looking at the numbers I'm relieved to see that dire predictions of salary cap hell were just wrong. FA considerations for next year should be:

DL:
Suggs, 26 (Ravens)
Babineaux, 27 (Falcons)
Canty, 26 (Turds)
Haynesworth, 27 (Titans)
Haye, 26 (Bucs)

OL:
Gross, 28
Brown, 25 (Ravens)
Carey, 27 (Fins)

LB:
Dansby, 27 (Cardinals)
Vilma, 26 (Saints)

And this doesn't even take into account cap casualties from other teams, where decent veteran minimum players can be found in abundance.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

Welcome, Gully. Nice first post.

Re: A Different Take on the Redskins Personnel Strategy
 

We can get suggs from baltimore.They cant afford him and lewis ,both are free agents.