Gibbs defends Brunell
 

Well boy's it looks like were going to see brunell again in two weeks.

yea i figured. i hope he just says that now but changes his mind later. no one usually changes qb after a win. but 8/22 for less thatn 100?!?!?

Were you just watching the post game press conference as well? It sounded like he said the two weeks will give Brunell a chance to get healthy meaning Brunell is definitely playing against GB. I know he said Mark played smart. I don't think a lot of those throws out of bounds were intentional I think he just missed his receivers.

I think this is one of the few rhings that I have to disagree with Gibbs on.

brunell would throw more picks if he was mor eaccurate. hes throws are almost to far off to be picked off.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]brunell would throw more picks if he was mor eaccurate. hes throws are almost to far off to be picked off.[/QUOTE]
agreed

lame that thats the truth...atleast ramsey drives down the field. even if he throws a pick he alteast kept the d off the field and moved the ball. gives us a better chance to score then brunell. I dont think we have any chance to score under brunell

When an offense is struggling like this offense, the defense has to make up their minds that they can decide the outcome of the game. Sean Springs, Sean Taylor, Fred Smoot, Marcus Washington and Antonio Pierce has that mindset and it shows. The Ravens won a Superbowl with an offense that was as bad as this one. With Lavar returning in two weeks, this defense should be at full throttle. We all know what Brunell is able or unable to do. He's playing with a brace on his knee which makes it virtually impossible to run and pass out of the pocket. If he can heal and run to make the short 20 to 30 yd passes he will be successful. The timing is still not there for Brunell and Jacobs on the long pass. Chicago stacked the box and Portis was still able to run for 171 yds.

I'm not sure that Ramsey is approaching his secondary role to Brunell in good favor. No question he is more talented than Brunell, but he obviously doesn't understand what Gibbs is trying to do. Otherwise he would have started this week. Two weeks, Green Bay in our house. Let's get it started in here!

I openly disagree with Gibbs on this move, as I'm pretty sure everyone does. 3 Superbowl rings or not... this is a bad move in my opinon.

If we had lost today- i would agree with you guys- but we have the bye week now, and I think Brunell deserves one final chance to show us something at home against Green Bay. The INT returned for a TD was a fluke play- not really his fault, so he played well enough for a 13-3 win.
If we lose against Green Bay and Brunell is at fault- then by all means bench him- but give him the bye to try to readjust.

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]I openly disagree with Gibbs on this move, as I'm pretty sure everyone does. 3 Superbowl rings or not... this is a bad move in my opinon.[/QUOTE]

Well I don't disagree with Gibbs until Ramsey can prove to Gibbs in practice that he understands his system and knows when to throw the ball and not take a sack. This is why he's isn't playing now, so why should he allowed to learn now that we won. If we had loss this game I could understand, but a victory sealed Brunell's position for another two weeks.

well whats gibbs going to say in a press conference. that hes happy we won and hes going to bench his starting qb. of course not. He still might play ramsey but i doubt it, either way he wouldnt have said anything in a post game conference.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]I'm not sure that Ramsey is approaching his secondary role to Brunell in good favor. No question he is more talented than Brunell, but he obviously doesn't understand what Gibbs is trying to do. Otherwise he would have started this week.[/QUOTE]
I don't buy that at all. This has nothing to do with Ramsey's performance in practice or otherwise, and everything to do with Gibbs presenting a consistent message of confidence in Brunell. He has stated repeatedly-- ad nauseum-- that he doesn't believe Brunell is the problem, and that the inefficacy of the offense is a product of poor team play and poor coaching. Making a quarterback change would have been totally inconsistent with that message of team accountability.

While I understand and respect that team-oriented approach-- Gibbs knows a hell of a lot more about coaching than I do-- I totally disagree with his assertion that replacing Brunell wouldn't improve the offense, and I feel his heartfelt loyalty to Brunell is blinding him to the cold truth about Brunell's glaring deficiencies.

Brunell's main strength is handing the ball off to Portis, that is when he doesn't fumble the hand off. He doesn't have the arm strength to be effective; I'm sorry to say it but JG is in denial.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]I don't buy that at all. This has nothing to do with Ramsey's performance in practice or otherwise, and everything to do with Gibbs presenting a consistent message of confidence in Brunell. He has stated repeatedly-- ad nauseum-- that he doesn't believe Brunell is the problem, and that the inefficacy of the offense is a product of poor team play and poor coaching. Making a quarterback change would have been totally inconsistent with that message of team accountability.

While I understand and respect that team-oriented approach-- Gibbs knows a hell of a lot more about coaching than I do-- I totally disagree with his assertion that replacing Brunell wouldn't improve the offense, and I feel his heartfelt loyalty to Brunell is blinding him to the cold truth about Brunell's glaring deficiencies.[/QUOTE]

APPARENTLY brunell has been injured, or so Gibbs says. But if gibbs thinks its a team and play calling problem then I agree we should stick with brunell. the last thing we need is to make the matter worse. if gibbs feels that the team needs more time to learn his system and for brunell to get on the same page as his receivers then ill go ahead and hope hes right for now. i think ramsey will throw more picks anyways, but I think ramsey gives us the best chance to move the ball and score

[QUOTE=joecrisp]I don't buy that at all. This has nothing to do with Ramsey's performance in practice or otherwise, and everything to do with Gibbs presenting a consistent message of confidence in Brunell. He has stated repeatedly-- ad nauseum-- that he doesn't believe Brunell is the problem, and that the inefficacy of the offense is a product of poor team play and poor coaching. Making a quarterback change would have been totally inconsistent with that message of team accountability.

While I understand and respect that team-oriented approach-- Gibbs knows a hell of a lot more about coaching than I do-- I totally disagree with his assertion that replacing Brunell wouldn't improve the offense, and I feel his heartfelt loyalty to Brunell is blinding him to the cold truth about Brunell's glaring deficiencies.[/QUOTE]

If Gibb's message is consistentcy and confidence in a QB then I will defend him to the end because that's something we didn't have for the last two years. If the Redskins win the next 3 games, (Packers, Lions and Bengals)
with Brunell, there should be some kind of an apology thread to Gibbs for accusing him of being blind to the obvious facts. And what are the obvious facts? A young talented QB who threw 3 INTS in his only game appearance. 2 sacks in the same. Seems incapable of moving in the pocket. On the other hand, an injured veteran with a proven record, whose skills have deminished, but still able to lead his team with a weak O line. Now loyalty to Brunell has nothing to do with Ramsey on the bench. Ramsey had his chance and blew it. If Rasmey won the game against the Giants, do you think Gibbs would have benched him anyway?

yes,gibbs still would have put ramsey back on the bench even if ramsey would have led the skins to victory over the giants.gibbs would have said "nice job by ramsey but brunell is the starter,wer lucky to have such a good backup qb".
thats just my opinion.

I think the ineffectiveness of the offense can't be totally laid at Burnell's feet. I think the loss of Jon Jansen was a huge blow to our offensive line and protection he would have afforded, as well as blocking for Portis. I've read article after article that said although Samuels was focused on playing back to his pro-bowl level, he has yet to show the determination he did during camp and sometimes takes plays off. So Burnell has a make shift line he's working with. Gibbs doesn't have all the players with the skills he needs to make his offense hum. We are working with so-so tight ends, our only stellar wide receiver with speed is Coles, the rest are so-so. After losing games to turnovers and mistakes it looks like Gibbs has scaled back the offense and gone back to basics to get some wins and work with the talent the Redskins have on offense. In other words, our defense is being counted on to win games, and our offense is supposed to just be good enough not to lose the game. I think we need another draft (too bad we gave up a 2nd round pick for Bailey cause we could've used that pick...SIGH!) Anyway, Joe can't perform miracles with talent he lacks on offense! He's tinkering and trying but the team just isn't there yet. I've heard Theismann say and I've heard Gibbs say as well that he would prefer to have a QB throw the ball away then try to force something that isn't there. Burnell is doing what he can, with what he has. Yes, Ramsey is younger, and had a nice drive when he came in, BUT he also threw several picks........Gibbs isn't going to yield the team to a young gun...I think he feels a younger QB would make even more costly mistakes, something this offense can ill afford. And that's my humble opinion for what it's worth.........Joe needs more time folks, we waited 13 so what's one or two more......SIGH

I'll stand behind Gibbs with whatever decision he makes, but right now I don't think Brunell should be starting. I hope he proves us all wrong.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]If the Redskins win the next 3 games, (Packers, Lions and Bengals) with Brunell, there should be some kind of an apology thread to Gibbs for accusing him of being blind to the obvious facts. And what are the obvious facts? A young talented QB who threw 3 INTS in his only game appearance. 2 sacks in the same. Seems incapable of moving in the pocket.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, SUNRA, Brunell was responsible for two turnovers himself in that game (1 interception, 1 fumble lost on a sack), and was ineffective once the Giants unleashed their pass rush and started blitzing. Ramsey came in with very little practice and forced passes, trying to lead the team from behind. He also scrambled for 17 yards on one play, despite his alleged immobility.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]On the other hand, an injured veteran with a proven record, whose skills have deminished, but still able to lead his team with a weak O line. Now loyalty to Brunell has nothing to do with Ramsey on the bench. Ramsey had his chance and blew it. If Ramsey won the game against the Giants, do you think Gibbs would have benched him anyway?[/QUOTE]
Brunell has "led" this team to 2 victories over very weak teams, and 4 losses that could have been avoided, had the offense shown any signs of life prior to the 4th quarter in those games. If Ramsey had won the game against the Giants, it wouldn't have mattered. Gibbs would have put Brunell back in there, because that's the guy who "earned" the starting job in the preseason.

Ramsey would've had to go in and throw 5 touchdowns and won the game for Gibbs to have even considered benching Brunell. That's not a fair expectation, either. On the other hand, Brunell has 5 touchdowns in a little over five and a half games, and there have been no signs of improvement.

[quote=SUNRA]If he can heal and run to make the short 20 to 30 yd passes he will be successful. The timing is still not there for Brunell and Jacobs on the long pass.

I'm not sure that Ramsey is approaching his secondary role to Brunell in good favor.[/quote] you realize he's only completed 3 long passes the entire season and hasn't been remotely close on any of the others right? its not the timing as much as a jelly arm...
and wtf do you keep pulling this crap about ramsey not doing sh*t right??? did you catch him talking crap or something? seriously, unless you have some kind of proof or source, you need to cut that...

[quote=SUNRA]If Gibb's message is consistentcy and confidence in a QB then I will defend him to the end because that's something we didn't have for the last two years. If the Redskins win the next 3 games, (Packers, Lions and Bengals)
with Brunell, there should be some kind of an apology thread to Gibbs for accusing him of being blind to the obvious facts. And what are the obvious facts? A young talented QB who threw 3 INTS in his only game appearance. 2 sacks in the same. Seems incapable of moving in the pocket. On the other hand, an injured veteran with a proven record, whose skills have deminished, but still able to lead his team with a weak O line. Now loyalty to Brunell has nothing to do with Ramsey on the bench. Ramsey had his chance and blew it. If Rasmey won the game against the Giants, do you think Gibbs would have benched him anyway?[/quote]
history lesson: Gibbs sticks with crappy QBs, always has... even when they're REALLY REALLY stinking it up, check the records. you mention ramsey had 2 sacks, but forgot to mention that BRUNELL HAD 3, and MB gave up points and couldn't drive down the field, unlike ramsey. Not to mention that ramsey didn't have a full week with the 1st team, and was thrown in 14 points down... he got seven... brunell hasn't even been able to come back for 3.

In five games brunell has proven he's old and tired, give ramsey a full game... IT CAN'T BE ANY WORSE. under 100 yards?? in two games?? five turnovers taken back for touchdowns??? come on...

Brunell was 8/22 with 95 yards.

Let's break down the stats a bit farther.

5 rushes were throw plays he botched. 8/27.
He got sacked once, so that was another pass play: 8/28. 8/28 with an Int. That is absolutely pathetic. 29% of his throws actually get caught. Sometimes this year dropped balls have been a problem. His play has been absolutely pathetic. Maybe Joe needs to take a step back and realize what ever fan, writter, and commentator for miles sees!

attaboy gibbs, finally a smart move sticking with mark

I really am tired of hearing about how Ramsey isn't any good, while Brunell stink's the place up every week, worse than any game I have ever seen Ramsey play, Ramsey is still a kid, and the bottom line, he showed more potential than either Carr, or Harrington, who by the way have seen far more playing time than Ramsey, anyone who say's this kid has proven he can't play, has very little understanding of the game.

[QUOTE=That Guy]you realize he's only completed 3 long passes the entire season and hasn't been remotely close on any of the others right? its not the timing as much as a jelly arm...
and wtf do you keep pulling this crap about ramsey not doing sh*t right??? did you catch him talking crap or something? seriously, unless you have some kind of proof or source, you need to cut that...


history lesson: Gibbs sticks with crappy QBs, always has... even when they're REALLY REALLY stinking it up, check the records. you mention ramsey had 2 sacks, but forgot to mention that BRUNELL HAD 3, and MB gave up points and couldn't drive down the field, unlike ramsey. Not to mention that ramsey didn't have a full week with the 1st team, and was thrown in 14 points down... he got seven... brunell hasn't even been able to come back for 3.

In five games brunell has proven he's old and tired, give ramsey a full game... IT CAN'T BE ANY WORSE. under 100 yards?? in two games?? five turnovers taken back for touchdowns??? come on...[/QUOTE]

First of all, I'm gonna keep sh@$ting on Ramsey as long you keep pulling him out of your a@#$. The most illlogical statement you made was play Ramsey for a full game, it can't be any worse . Oh you don't mine losing with him because at least he put up good numbers right? I think passing yard stats mean more to you than wins.

You're beating a dead horse and the fact still remains that Brunell is starting in two weeks. So take a deep breath and cheer for the Redskins to win with Brunell rather than hoping Brunell loses his job.

History lessons for you guys:

Gibbs won Super Bowls with Joe Theismann, Doug Williams, and Mark Rypien. Out of those three names, the only one that I felt was a "franchise" player was joe Theismann. Doug Williams was a flash in the pan as well as Rypien yet Gibbs was successful with them. When this offense is gelled completely, it really won't matter who the QB is. Now, certainly I haven't been too impressed by Brunell, but I still don't think Ramsey at this point can do a better job...but that isn't to say that Brunell is doing an outstanding job because he's not...bottom line:

I really can care less who the QB is as long as the Redskins win! Heck, bring back Doug Williams or Mark Rypien...heck I'll play...just let the Redskins win!

Well, if you guys recall, *I* put a history lesson in a couple threads last week. It was related to what I saw as Gibbs' one an only MAJOR flaw as a head coach. That is his stubborn refusal to replace a QB that is stinking up the joint. And you Brunell fans can say what you like, there was no excuse for some of those horrible, horrible passes. He is awful at this point in his career.

Theismann was at the same point in HIS career (per my "history lesson" from last week), and the only thing that got him out of there and transformed a team headed under .500 to 10-6 was LT breaking his leg. I hope Gibbs realizes by tomorrow that he can go nowhere with this guy at the helm the rest of the season. If not, I will have to revise my 9-7 projection that is clearly still attainable with someone that can complete a downfield pass and can move a PRO offense.

Brunell is washed up. Period.

lol, sunra has been leading an argument in the last two threads i checked

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]lol, sunra has been leading an argument in the last two threads i checked[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you checked. Thank you Eyewitness News for your report.

as a sided note sunra. let me ask you. I see you are from jersey city. Is that anywhere near Dover NJ. I have to move there for work in six months and have been trying to find out about jersey and that area specifically.

I don't recall Gibbs sticking with a QB a major flaw..heck...he stayed sith several medicore QBs and still was able to have 3 Super Bowl rings in 4 Super Bowl appearences..I hardly call that a flaw.....

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]as a sided note sunra. let me ask you. I see you are from jersey city. Is that anywhere near Dover NJ. I have to move there for work in six months and have been trying to find out about jersey and that area specifically.[/QUOTE]

Dover is about forty miles west of Jersey City. Jersey City is five miles west of New York City.

You guys remember when Gibbs went down to see Brunell in Jacksonville, and Brunell ended up having to take Gibbs to the hospital because Gibbs was having some sort of diabetes attack and had forgotten his medication?

Anyone else starting to think that Brunell was like "I'll drive you to the hospital but here are a few of my demands"...and that's why Brunell is still the starter

In addition to SUNRA's comment about Ramsey's play in the Giants game
 

Sunra: I believe that Mark had placed the Skins in the hole immediately when he was injured, I believe they had a substantionally larger deficit when Ramsey entered the game than when he finished. I also believe that he was not truly responsible for two of the three interceptions thrown. The receivers were more responsible for those two mishaps than he was. Please don't encourage harmony concerning the play of Brunell (even though he was obviously a great player at one time and a nice guy) because he simply is not earning his keep. Gibbs in my opinion is probably protecting him until he looks at the tape throughly. I will support the Redskins no matter what decision they make, but as far as Brunell is concerned he will have to do a lot to prove his worth and contribution. Especially when you consider the last few games that we lost preceeding this win should not have been loses, and directly reflecting on our supposed LEADSHIP on offense which should begin with our vetran Quarterback. In addition, our running game has not been effective because they know that we have not had an effective passing game. Whose responsibility is that, with the exception of a few dropped passes, though most of the passes have not been with in reach of our tremendous receivers with great protection.

[QUOTE=skinsguy]I don't recall Gibbs sticking with a QB a major flaw..heck...he stayed sith several medicore QBs and still was able to have 3 Super Bowl rings in 4 Super Bowl appearences..I hardly call that a flaw.....[/QUOTE]

Yes, a couple of us went into all of the detail last week, about when Theismann was playing just like Brunell is now. It was in his last year. The Skins were 5-5, I believe. But Theismann had been TERRIBLE all year while the rest of the team was great, and Gibbs would not make the change. We were losing to the Giants when his leg got broken. We came back to win the game and went 10-6 for the season. Gibbs is VERY slow to change his QB, if it is a veteran. That may be his only fault as a head coach. It certainly is his biggest. I am hoping he is just putting this out for the press and has different plans, but that is not likely.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]First of all, I'm gonna keep sh@$ting on Ramsey as long you keep pulling him out of your a@#$. The most illlogical statement you made was play Ramsey for a full game, it can't be any worse . Oh you don't mine losing with him because at least he put up good numbers right? I think passing yard stats mean more to you than wins.

You're beating a dead horse and the fact still remains that Brunell is starting in two weeks. So take a deep breath and cheer for the Redskins to win with Brunell rather than hoping Brunell loses his job.[/QUOTE]
SUNRA, I was all for brunell when he became our starter as Ramsey was struggling. It was the best choice at the beginning of the season. RIGHT NOW it is not.
BTW brunell has not won us any games. Both the games were won by our defense!! In fact brunell did do everything in his power to make sure we lost!!
Can you explain how this supposedly decent QB could not even muster 100 yrds against the 28th ranked passing team in the NFL!! I'm not sure Ramsey is the answer either, but at this point of time our offense needs LEADERSHIP and SPARK. It's not their with brunell. Who know benching brunell for a game might be exactly what he needs. All I know at this point, with a bye, it the perfect oppurtunity to get Ramsey ready for the net game. We can't expect our defense to keep bailing us out all the time.

I'll be cheering for the Redskins to win even if denim monger is the QB (did I just say that?!) And I don't want Brunell to get badly hurt or anything like that but I think we need to be proactive about this. I will respect Gibbs' decision no matter what but I think instead of waiting for another game in which we lose because the offense couldn't take advantage of our great defense we need to send someone out there with the physical tools to generate some offense for us.

Ramsey has the physical tools and the only way for him to develop the intangible skills is for him to get out there and play.

I agree, Smack. Gibbs is the guy making the decisions. And whether I agree with them or not, I will be rooting for the team 100%. But I sure hope it won't take too long for him to make the call that has to be made.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]as a sided note sunra. let me ask you. I see you are from jersey city. Is that anywhere near Dover NJ. I have to move there for work in six months and have been trying to find out about jersey and that area specifically.[/QUOTE]

Hey SkinsnCanes, you will be moving less than 10 minutes from my house, let me know if you need to find a place to live, I'll hook you up. PM me for details.

[quote=SUNRA]First of all, I'm gonna keep sh@$ting on Ramsey as long you keep pulling him out of your a@#$. The most illlogical statement you made was play Ramsey for a full game, it can't be any worse . Oh you don't mine losing with him because at least he put up good numbers right? I think passing yard stats mean more to you than wins.

You're beating a dead horse and the fact still remains that Brunell is starting in two weeks. So take a deep breath and cheer for the Redskins to win with Brunell rather than hoping Brunell loses his job.[/quote]

so you don't mind losing with a crap QB, but you would mind losing with a good one?? brunell is the worst starting QB in the league, ramsey's numbers from when he's played have been much much much much better. Since ramsey has started, he's had a better W-L ratio than brunell, and as i've repeated, all of his stats are better, INCLUDING TD/TURNOVER ratio, so i have no idea why you think he's the end of the world... we've given brunell plenty of time and he's proved he really really sucks. give ramsey a chance and you'll see he can't be any worse. The only illogical thing thats been said has been your assertion that ramsey can be worse than brunell... brunell has lost 4 games by himself, and didn't win either of the other two.

The comment about cutting the crap was because you keep saying sh*t like "ramsey isn't approaching his role in good favor" and that he's stinking up practice... those comments can only be based on some kind of fanatical zealotry i'm guessing, cause i haven't seen anything to back them up... my comments have been solely based on facts.

And i can cheer for the redskins just fine while still wanting brunell benched... maybe you should take a deep breath and re-watch the last 3 games...