The Truth about Champ! Portis-Champ Trade Analysis.
 

I know many of you were wondering if the Portis-Champ trade was a good deal for us. Yes, I am going to open my mouth and state my opinion as usual. In all honesty, I have never seen Champ as a "Shut Down" Corner and after his performance against GB on Sunday, I have my proof. If we look a few years back when he first came to the Skins, who was on the other side of him? Does the name "Future Hall of Famer" and probably "Best Corner of All Time" (Those quotes were just my opinion) Darrell Green enter your mind? Let's take a look at what the opposing offenses had to throw at. When you have Green (the Greatest of all time) in the secondary and then Bailey (his protege'), how do you think Bailey got the "Shut Down" title. Considering they weren't going to throw at Darrell, so they were only left with throwing at Bailey. All it would take is a few good plays for him to get the label as "Shut down" Granted during Green's last couple of years, he lost a step and got beat. But that's when Smooooot came in. To me..Smoot is a much better "all-a-round" corner. Not only does he sacrifice his body for the team, but he actually is a great coverage corner..and smart too. I think Smoot learned alot from Darrell and also from Bailey. Now with Springs added. I think we have one of the best secondaries and will for the next few years.

IMO, the Skins getting Portis was a much better deal. While Bailey does have the chance to cause game breaking plays, Portis will be making game breaking runs. Even though Portis has not had the Greatest Season so far, I expect him to pick up the pace and start running over opponents.

Post your thoughts too. All are welcome and read.

GO SKINS!!!!!

I'm not going to jump on the "let's bash Bailey after one bad night" bandwagon.

Let's not blow things out of proportion here, he is still one of the top 3 corners in the league, that's not even up for debate.

All great corners get beat, sometimes just for a play and sometimes for an entire game like last night. Even our beloved Darrell Green was beat on occassion, and I can remember him having his share of rough outings too.

The difference between a great corner and a good one is the ability to forget the last play and keep coming back for more. Sooner or later a great corner will make you pay.

Last night's game doesn't change my opinion of Champ in the least bit, and it hasn't changed his opinion of himself, as it shouldn't.

Matty...I agree with you and I disagree. The parts you are saying about a great corner are definitely true. Great Corners do come back to play and forget the bad play or game before. But I just don't see Champ as being a "Great" Corner. I seem to remember him gettting beat last season quite a bit. I see him as being a "Good" corner..just not Great. I know, almost everyone else in the league thinks he is great...I personally just don't see it. For once Matty, we disagree on something..LOL. I might be the only person seeing him as Good..but I still think we got the better deal with Portis. With Springs, Smoot and Taylor in the Secondary...we are going to be great for years to come.

As of this week:

Redskins: #1 Defense w/o Champ, 95 points allowed
Broncos: #2 Defense with Champ, 100 points allowed

Since they have been flip-flopping in the ratings, I'll call it even.

Portis: 593 yards in 6 games: 98.83 average
Griffen as feature back: 295 yards in 4 games
Droughns as feature back: 479 yards in 3 games
Combined: 774 yards in 7 games: 110.57 average

Slight edge to Denver.

That said, Portis is just getting acclimated to the new system and should be more consistent the rest of the year. Plus, if our passing game had a pulse, we would probably have actually built decent leads in a couple games, and would have run more in the second half, so it would probably be more even.
Really, I think both teams made out well and got what they wanted. This is what I thought when the trade was made, and it appears to hold true almost halfway through the season.

I agree he's very good... but he's not the best. He falls down too often to be the best. That fall last night reminded me of his game against the Giants last year at Fedex.

I don't regret letting Champ go, I think Portis is going to be great for us.

I just disagree that he's not a "great" corner.

Dragon, if Bailey isn't one of the best I'd like to hear your short list as to who you think is better.

[QUOTE=SkinsRock]As of this week:

Redskins: #1 Defense w/o Champ, 95 points allowed
Broncos: #2 Defense with Champ, 100 points allowed

Since they have been flip-flopping in the ratings, I'll call it even.

Portis: 593 yards in 6 games: 98.83 average
Griffen as feature back: 295 yards in 4 games
Droughns as feature back: 479 yards in 3 games
Combined: 774 yards in 7 games: 110.57 average

Slight edge to Denver.

That said, Portis is just getting acclimated to the new system and should be more consistent the rest of the year. Plus, if our passing game had a pulse, we would probably have actually built decent leads in a couple games, and would have run more in the second half, so it would probably be more even.
Really, I think both teams made out well and got what they wanted. This is what I thought when the trade was made, and it appears to hold true almost halfway through the season.[/QUOTE]
SkinsRock-I would agree with you..but if you take into account that 35 points of the 95 scored on us have been a result of our offense..not our defense..than the trade is definitely in our favor. Our defense has only allowed a total of 50some points all season..(going to have to look at actual stats for this).

Don't get me wrong..I like Champ..I just don't think he is the "Shut Down" Corner everyone is claiming him to be

I think Bailey is a great corner. I think that everyone just wants to believe that he is not so great now that he wears another uniform. He got beat last night but there is not a corner alive who doesn't get beat. I am still skepticle of the trade. I think we gave up to much for Portis. The trade should not have included a 2nd round pick since a corner of Baileys ability is much harder to find than a RB. That has been discussed to death on this site though. However, can anyone honestly say that they are not worried about Portis being a system back now that we have seen yet another Denver RB go from obscurity to Pro Bowler in matter of weeks? Portis until this past week has struggled in Washington's system yet Denver still has thier running game going for the most part. I don't know about you but that sure has me worried.

I think what this season shows is that this trade was a true win-win situtation, which is probably why it happened despite the fact that such blockbuster trades are so rare in the NFL.

Gibbs needed a solid running back, and he got one. Our running game with Portis is greatly improved compared with last year, and should only get better. And our defense is stellar even without Bailey.

Denver decided that its priority was in upgrading its defense, and it has done just that. Moreover, Mike Shanahan is demonstrating very persuasively that he truly can plug any running back into his system and make it work. I mean, had anyone heard of Droughns at the beginning of this season?

[QUOTE=JudgeJebus]I think what this season shows is that this trade was a true win-win situtation, which is probably why it happened despite the fact that such blockbuster trades are so rare in the NFL.

Gibbs needed a solid running back, and he got one. Our running game with Portis is greatly improved compared with last year, and should only get better. And our defense is stellar even without Bailey.

Denver decided that its priority was in upgrading its defense, and it has done just that. Moreover, Mike Shanahan is demonstrating very persuasively that he truly can plug any running back into his system and make it work. I mean, had anyone heard of Droughns at the beginning of this season?[/QUOTE]

This defintley was a win-win for both teams. Denver got the slight edge cause of the 2nd round pick, but I'm defintley happy with who we have in Porits and Baileys replacement Springs. I'm sure Denver is happy with Bailey and Portis replacement, Drougns.

Bailey is a great athlete, and a good corner. Someone rightly pointed out that Marv Lewis knew better than to respect his "shutdown cover corner" status and ended up testing CB pretty good. However, for Denver to claim that they came out on top of the Bailey-Portis trade, they have to better last year's performance (1st round playoffs), which they will not do for two reasons IMHO:

1. Shanahan is the biggest coaching sham in the league. What has he achieved with their admittedly excellent running game since Elway left?
2. No one will win the big game with Jake the Mistake as their QB. He's got to be the paragon of inconsistency at the QB position.

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]This defintley was a win-win for both teams. Denver got the slight edge cause of the 2nd round pick . . . [/QUOTE]
Ah, yes. I always forget about that damn second-round pick we gave up.

[QUOTE=dragontat7169]SkinsRock-I would agree with you..but if you take into account that 35 points of the 95 scored on us have been a result of our offense..not our defense..than the trade is definitely in our favor. Our defense has only allowed a total of 50some points all season..(going to have to look at actual stats for this).

Don't get me wrong..I like Champ..I just don't think he is the "Shut Down" Corner everyone is claiming him to be[/QUOTE]

True about the offense giving up points, but since I don't follow the Broncos, I don't know how many points their offense or ST have given up, if any. Most teams have at least 1 or 2 INT or kick return TD's against them by this point, but I didn't research each Denver game to find that out. I just went by the rating and points allowed totals.
So if you give the Skins the edge because of the offense giving up points, it still evens out at this point since Denver's RB's have more yards.....but remember that 7 of those points were from a Portis fumble. :doh:

I agree to an extent on Champ. He is one of the best corners in the league, but I don't believe there is such a thing as a "shut-down corner". Every corner gets burned, but the best ones keep it from happening as often as others. That said, it was kinda nice to see Champ have a bad night on the national stage last night, considering how the media tends to talk him up to be practically invincible.

corners are intentionally hobbled this year by the new rule don't forget, so Champ would be less effective this year no matter how good he is. but im glad Lewis threw at him so much. MOXIE!

However it stacks up, Denver is probably missing Portis a bit more today:

[URL=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1910039]Broncos lose Griffen for the Year--ESPN.com[/URL]

man you guys are leaving out some info.

if champ isnt the best corner who is? Mcallister is only a zone defence corner. C.woodson is always hurt and is struggleing this year. surtain isnt as good as champ. if champs not the best who is?

also, champ felldown on the TD play. but he also took points away with his INT.

now onto portis. portis lost a game for us. portis has played HORRIBLY in 3 games.


denver is 5:2. #2 ranked defence. champ has helped them tremendously.

[QUOTE=jamf]man you guys are leaving out some info.

...

denver is 5:2. #2 ranked defence. champ has helped them tremendously.[/QUOTE]

Hmmmm - NOW who is leaving out some info? Sure Denver has the number 2 Defense. Who is number one?????????????

Washington Redskins WITHOUT Bailey. The defense was terrible last year WITH him. Now, I am not saying we are better BECAUSE he left, but I am also not convinced that Denver's is better because he is THERE. NO WAY he is a "shut down" CB. I have seen most of Denver's games, and have seen Bailey make some very good plays, AND get beaten MANY times. He was beaten like a DRUM this week by Chad Johnson (just like the Giants used to eat him up every time out).

AND!!! The only shining moment for Bailey, the interception, was a BAD play by him. Watch the rerun (I still have it on TIVO). Chad is running a crossing pattern, and is between the QB and Bailey. BAILEY needed to be between him and the QB on a crossing pattern. That was a certain first down if Palmer throws a ball that Chad has ANY chance of catching. The only way Bailey could break it up would be to come THROUGH Chad. But Palmer led Chad so far, he could not even touch the ball with a forward dive. Bottom line, Bailey lucked out on a play where he was beaten.

One thing that has helped Bailey in Denver so far is that teams have been throwing away from him due to his reputation. Marvin Lewis knew better. Exptect to see more of the same. Against Cincy, Bailey reminded me a lot of his play throughout last season. It was WAY below the level he had set in previous years. He has been living on reputation.

This is what I hate about Skins fans. Once a player is no longer a Redskins he is no longer highly regarded. The same shit happened with Davis. Please people, be more rational. Put the fucking thinking hat on and take that asinine clown hat off.

so saden, which team do you root for? green bay?

Saden: Just remember what an ass Bailey was before he left. Snyder gave him a very reasonable contract and he wanted the worst D coordinator of all time to stick around. I'm glad he's gone just so we can have Greg!

I still haven't seen anyone's list that shows who they think are better than Champ, if he's not a top 3 corner.

Bottom line is both teams won with this trade. Springs and Smoot have picked up the slack with huge help from Williams, Bailey has helped to vastly improve the Broncos secondary, Portis is starting to pay off for us, and all is well in Bronco and Redskin land.

I think alot of people are sounding like sour grapes with Bailey. I hear alot of "See, I told you he sucks, we're better off without him, he wasn't worth the $$, blah, blah, blah"

champ is easily a top 3 corner... like mk72 says name the ones who are better if he's not. seems like both defenses are better. ill take what we got, portis and a 2nd for champ. but still portis hasn't been money yet, but he will be, esp. if zzzzzz our passing game can get something done zzzzzzz. count it.

Saden, cool down man, I understand what you're saying but your choice of language really isn't necessary, you've been around here long enough to know better.

Hogskin,

To be fair to Saden perhaps he wasn't attacking you directly, there are a few "Bailey stinks" threads going around and he could have been just reacting to all of those in general.

Why would I come after you "again"? I'm getting the feeling you think I have it out for you or something and that I only respond to those who hit back and not to who struck first.

Matty, I have just read two threads in a row with people arguing. I propse that I become the special enforer of the warpath, and do your dirty work. That way you can write " WARPATH ENFORCER " on top of my little picture.

We can make a jailhouse thread, and everyone who I put in jail can only post there! We can even make a whole goverment system and have trials and stuff, and it all starts with me... YOUR WARPATH ENFORCER!!!

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I still haven't seen anyone's list that shows who they think are better than Champ, if he's not a top 3 corner.[/QUOTE]

I don't make it a point to hate former skins once they leave. I've never thought Champ was the best even when he was here. It would've been great for us to keep him, but not at the money he was demanding...same view on Stephen Davis.

I'd say Champ is a top 10 corner in the league, but not a top 3.

1. Ty law
2. Chris Mcallister
3. Ronde Barber

Bailey appears in the second batch along with Charles Woodson, Antoine Winfield, Ken Lucas, Smootie, - Champ may undoubtedly be the best athelete among this group, but as far as his corner skills go, there's not much to clearly choose one from among this group.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]
But, of course, this is a football fan site, so we are all used to seeing NFL officials do the very same thing LOL. But, Matty, it seems like in your case, it is not poor judgement (like the refs). My feeling is that you are a good guy who sees the original post, and just hopes it will get ignored so you won't have to step in. Then an excitable, argumentative guy like me responds the way I do, and you are forced into action. A simple post after the first attack would not stop me from responding, but it would certainly affect the severity of the tone.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that's probably the case, it's not intentional but I'll try to be more careful of that in the future.

It's also probably due to the fact I try to read every post on the board, so some manage to slip by me and it's easy to lose track of who "hit first".

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]Matty, I have just read two threads in a row with people arguing. I propse that I become the special enforer of the warpath, and do your dirty work. That way you can write " WARPATH ENFORCER " on top of my little picture.

We can make a jailhouse thread, and everyone who I put in jail can only post there! We can even make a whole goverment system and have trials and stuff, and it all starts with me... YOUR WARPATH ENFORCER!!![/QUOTE]
I might have to take you up on that!

I like the idea of the jail too!

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I like the idea of the jail too![/QUOTE]

Uh-oh... I think I will be a "lifer", what with my argumentative nature, and my comments about a couple trades by the WARPATH ENFORCER in our fantasy league!!!!!!!! LOL

I'll have to try to get a spot on the parole board so I can get some time out on "somewhat good" behavior.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]All right, I'm sure Matty will come after ME again for responding to this blatant attack, but I don't stand by and let someone shit on me simply because he disagrees with me.

Saden, I was saying the same things about Bailey when he WAS a Redskin. Go back and look it up. He played TERRIBLE last year.

Now, let me tell you what IS "asinine", "hate"ful, "shit"ty, ir"rational", "fuck"ed up, non"thinking", and "clown"ish. It is a fool who makes those type of attacks on a Mensa member for only ONE reason: he disagrees with his opiniion.[/QUOTE]

What? I didn't even read your post! I was making a general comment to all the Champ haters. You give yourself too much credit if you thought I was responding to your comment. In the future you shouldn’t assume my posts are meant for you unless I address you specifically.

And please save us the Mensa bullshit. It fools no one and makes you look quite foolish.


Matty, sorry man. I’ll try my best to hold my peace.

I think a good rule of thumb is to use the quote feature if you are replying to someone directly.

Seems like most of us do that already, but if you don't, it's a good idea to avoid confusion.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]OK, so the asshole won't let it drop, Matty. First he directs his hate at me, then he comes back later and can't even be honest about it.

- His first post came 28 minutes after mine
- My post was the ONLY strongly critical post about Bailey in the thread at that point. Who does he expect us to believe he was responding to? Maybe some guy at the bar he just got home from.
- This last post (hold the peace?????) was again hostile, and was made after the thread had settled down.

If you want BS, look in a mirror. BTW, your jealousy was showing big time.[/QUOTE]


What is this? Third grade? LOL is all I can say.

Thanks for putting a smile on my face. Have a great day! :lol:

you guys I joined this site because it was the only place I could find that has educated fans DISCUSSING issues. Actual discussion in this thread has been limited and arguments have taken over. If you have something you want to say about someone send them a private message, I dont care to read about it.

Champ Bailey is a great corner back. Players in the league respect his ability to shut people down. That doesnt mean he was the best last year, or that he was amazing against chad johnson. Bailey had a lot of great plays in the bengals game, and none of them have been mentioned. Which is how it should be, the great players dont make any plays. WHen the quarterback doesnt throw to a guy because hes covered, the corner is doing his job. Johnson had a great came and you cant take that away from him. you win some and you lose some but whether bailey is a redskin or not it doesnt change his abilities as a corner. You guys mentioned barber and McCalister as other better corners. Im not aruging whether they are better than bailey or not but if you odnt think they have given up big plays you are fooling your self. Its easier to be a receiver then a corner and the wr is going to win some.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]you guys I joined this site because it was the only place I could find that has educated fans DISCUSSING issues. Actual discussion in this thread has been limited and arguments have taken over. If you have something you want to say about someone send them a private message, I dont care to read about it.[/QUOTE]

Nicely put Canes.

"The thing I hate about an argument is it always interrupts a discussion"-Gil Chesterton (aka Joe Gibbs)

"The aim of discussion, should not be victory, but progress"-Joseph Joubert (aka Joe Gibbs)

"It's better than to remain silent and be thought the fool, then speak and remove all doubt"-Joe Gibbs

Hopefully we can get back to talking football in a respectful manner, or we might have to start locking people up in the warpath jail.

ronde barber is a top 3 corner? he couldnt cover himself with a blanket.

barber NEVER plays man coverage only zone.
Mcallister is a very good cover corner but he is a product of a great team that plays alot of zone.

ty law is legit, he can match up with anyone and has since before the patriots were good.

man is there anyone else in here that thinks ronde is a top 10 corner(not even a top 3)?

you know who I think is underrated? Quentin Jammer

if gmac is the ENFORCER, can i be the PUNISHER, or the EXECUTIONER??

I really want a spiffy title too ;)

The child's play has gone on long enough.

skinsncanes summed it up nicely, if you want to have a bitchfest take it to email or private messages. Nobody wants to hear it.

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