The Truth about Champ! Portis-Champ Trade Analysis.

dragontat7169 · 10-26-2004, 04:34 PM

I know many of you were wondering if the Portis-Champ trade was a good deal for us. Yes, I am going to open my mouth and state my opinion as usual. In all honesty, I have never seen Champ as a "Shut Down" Corner and after his performance against GB on Sunday, I have my proof. If we look a few years back when he first came to the Skins, who was on the other side of him? Does the name "Future Hall of Famer" and probably "Best Corner of All Time" (Those quotes were just my opinion) Darrell Green enter your mind? Let's take a look at what the opposing offenses had to throw at. When you have Green (the Greatest of all time) in the secondary and then Bailey (his protege'), how do you think Bailey got the "Shut Down" title. Considering they weren't going to throw at Darrell, so they were only left with throwing at Bailey. All it would take is a few good plays for him to get the label as "Shut down" Granted during Green's last couple of years, he lost a step and got beat. But that's when Smooooot came in. To me..Smoot is a much better "all-a-round" corner. Not only does he sacrifice his body for the team, but he actually is a great coverage corner..and smart too. I think Smoot learned alot from Darrell and also from Bailey. Now with Springs added. I think we have one of the best secondaries and will for the next few years.

IMO, the Skins getting Portis was a much better deal. While Bailey does have the chance to cause game breaking plays, Portis will be making game breaking runs. Even though Portis has not had the Greatest Season so far, I expect him to pick up the pace and start running over opponents.

Post your thoughts too. All are welcome and read.

GO SKINS!!!!!

MTK · 10-26-2004, 04:50 PM

I'm not going to jump on the "let's bash Bailey after one bad night" bandwagon.

Let's not blow things out of proportion here, he is still one of the top 3 corners in the league, that's not even up for debate.

All great corners get beat, sometimes just for a play and sometimes for an entire game like last night. Even our beloved Darrell Green was beat on occassion, and I can remember him having his share of rough outings too.

The difference between a great corner and a good one is the ability to forget the last play and keep coming back for more. Sooner or later a great corner will make you pay.

Last night's game doesn't change my opinion of Champ in the least bit, and it hasn't changed his opinion of himself, as it shouldn't.

dragontat7169 · 10-26-2004, 04:58 PM

Matty...I agree with you and I disagree. The parts you are saying about a great corner are definitely true. Great Corners do come back to play and forget the bad play or game before. But I just don't see Champ as being a "Great" Corner. I seem to remember him gettting beat last season quite a bit. I see him as being a "Good" corner..just not Great. I know, almost everyone else in the league thinks he is great...I personally just don't see it. For once Matty, we disagree on something..LOL. I might be the only person seeing him as Good..but I still think we got the better deal with Portis. With Springs, Smoot and Taylor in the Secondary...we are going to be great for years to come.

SkinsRock · 10-26-2004, 05:01 PM

As of this week:

Redskins: #1 Defense w/o Champ, 95 points allowed
Broncos: #2 Defense with Champ, 100 points allowed

Since they have been flip-flopping in the ratings, I'll call it even.

Portis: 593 yards in 6 games: 98.83 average
Griffen as feature back: 295 yards in 4 games
Droughns as feature back: 479 yards in 3 games
Combined: 774 yards in 7 games: 110.57 average

Slight edge to Denver.

That said, Portis is just getting acclimated to the new system and should be more consistent the rest of the year. Plus, if our passing game had a pulse, we would probably have actually built decent leads in a couple games, and would have run more in the second half, so it would probably be more even.
Really, I think both teams made out well and got what they wanted. This is what I thought when the trade was made, and it appears to hold true almost halfway through the season.

EEich · 10-26-2004, 05:03 PM

I agree he's very good... but he's not the best. He falls down too often to be the best. That fall last night reminded me of his game against the Giants last year at Fedex.

MTK · 10-26-2004, 05:05 PM

I don't regret letting Champ go, I think Portis is going to be great for us.

I just disagree that he's not a "great" corner.

Dragon, if Bailey isn't one of the best I'd like to hear your short list as to who you think is better.

dragontat7169 · 10-26-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinsRock

As of this week:

Redskins: #1 Defense w/o Champ, 95 points allowed
Broncos: #2 Defense with Champ, 100 points allowed

Since they have been flip-flopping in the ratings, I'll call it even.

Portis: 593 yards in 6 games: 98.83 average
Griffen as feature back: 295 yards in 4 games
Droughns as feature back: 479 yards in 3 games
Combined: 774 yards in 7 games: 110.57 average

Slight edge to Denver.

That said, Portis is just getting acclimated to the new system and should be more consistent the rest of the year. Plus, if our passing game had a pulse, we would probably have actually built decent leads in a couple games, and would have run more in the second half, so it would probably be more even.
Really, I think both teams made out well and got what they wanted. This is what I thought when the trade was made, and it appears to hold true almost halfway through the season.

SkinsRock-I would agree with you..but if you take into account that 35 points of the 95 scored on us have been a result of our offense..not our defense..than the trade is definitely in our favor. Our defense has only allowed a total of 50some points all season..(going to have to look at actual stats for this).

Don't get me wrong..I like Champ..I just don't think he is the "Shut Down" Corner everyone is claiming him to be

celts32 · 10-26-2004, 05:17 PM

I think Bailey is a great corner. I think that everyone just wants to believe that he is not so great now that he wears another uniform. He got beat last night but there is not a corner alive who doesn't get beat. I am still skepticle of the trade. I think we gave up to much for Portis. The trade should not have included a 2nd round pick since a corner of Baileys ability is much harder to find than a RB. That has been discussed to death on this site though. However, can anyone honestly say that they are not worried about Portis being a system back now that we have seen yet another Denver RB go from obscurity to Pro Bowler in matter of weeks? Portis until this past week has struggled in Washington's system yet Denver still has thier running game going for the most part. I don't know about you but that sure has me worried.

JudgeJebus · 10-26-2004, 05:22 PM

I think what this season shows is that this trade was a true win-win situtation, which is probably why it happened despite the fact that such blockbuster trades are so rare in the NFL.

Gibbs needed a solid running back, and he got one. Our running game with Portis is greatly improved compared with last year, and should only get better. And our defense is stellar even without Bailey.

Denver decided that its priority was in upgrading its defense, and it has done just that. Moreover, Mike Shanahan is demonstrating very persuasively that he truly can plug any running back into his system and make it work. I mean, had anyone heard of Droughns at the beginning of this season?

Gmanc711 · 10-26-2004, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudgeJebus

I think what this season shows is that this trade was a true win-win situtation, which is probably why it happened despite the fact that such blockbuster trades are so rare in the NFL.

Gibbs needed a solid running back, and he got one. Our running game with Portis is greatly improved compared with last year, and should only get better. And our defense is stellar even without Bailey.

Denver decided that its priority was in upgrading its defense, and it has done just that. Moreover, Mike Shanahan is demonstrating very persuasively that he truly can plug any running back into his system and make it work. I mean, had anyone heard of Droughns at the beginning of this season?

This defintley was a win-win for both teams. Denver got the slight edge cause of the 2nd round pick, but I'm defintley happy with who we have in Porits and Baileys replacement Springs. I'm sure Denver is happy with Bailey and Portis replacement, Drougns.

hurrykaine · 10-26-2004, 05:26 PM

Bailey is a great athlete, and a good corner. Someone rightly pointed out that Marv Lewis knew better than to respect his "shutdown cover corner" status and ended up testing CB pretty good. However, for Denver to claim that they came out on top of the Bailey-Portis trade, they have to better last year's performance (1st round playoffs), which they will not do for two reasons IMHO:

1. Shanahan is the biggest coaching sham in the league. What has he achieved with their admittedly excellent running game since Elway left?
2. No one will win the big game with Jake the Mistake as their QB. He's got to be the paragon of inconsistency at the QB position.

JudgeJebus · 10-26-2004, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

This defintley was a win-win for both teams. Denver got the slight edge cause of the 2nd round pick . . .

Ah, yes. I always forget about that damn second-round pick we gave up.

SkinsRock · 10-26-2004, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragontat7169

SkinsRock-I would agree with you..but if you take into account that 35 points of the 95 scored on us have been a result of our offense..not our defense..than the trade is definitely in our favor. Our defense has only allowed a total of 50some points all season..(going to have to look at actual stats for this).

Don't get me wrong..I like Champ..I just don't think he is the "Shut Down" Corner everyone is claiming him to be

True about the offense giving up points, but since I don't follow the Broncos, I don't know how many points their offense or ST have given up, if any. Most teams have at least 1 or 2 INT or kick return TD's against them by this point, but I didn't research each Denver game to find that out. I just went by the rating and points allowed totals.
So if you give the Skins the edge because of the offense giving up points, it still evens out at this point since Denver's RB's have more yards.....but remember that 7 of those points were from a Portis fumble.

I agree to an extent on Champ. He is one of the best corners in the league, but I don't believe there is such a thing as a "shut-down corner". Every corner gets burned, but the best ones keep it from happening as often as others. That said, it was kinda nice to see Champ have a bad night on the national stage last night, considering how the media tends to talk him up to be practically invincible.

illdefined · 10-26-2004, 05:41 PM

corners are intentionally hobbled this year by the new rule don't forget, so Champ would be less effective this year no matter how good he is. but im glad Lewis threw at him so much. MOXIE!

JWsleep · 10-26-2004, 08:54 PM

However it stacks up, Denver is probably missing Portis a bit more today:

Broncos lose Griffen for the Year--ESPN.com

10-26-2004, 08:54 PM	#15
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,719	However it stacks up, Denver is probably missing Portis a bit more today: Broncos lose Griffen for the Year--ESPN.com __________________ Hail from Houston!

10-26-2004, 04:34 PM	#1
dragontat7169 Camp Scrub Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 92	The Truth about Champ! Portis-Champ Trade Analysis. I know many of you were wondering if the Portis-Champ trade was a good deal for us. Yes, I am going to open my mouth and state my opinion as usual. In all honesty, I have never seen Champ as a "Shut Down" Corner and after his performance against GB on Sunday, I have my proof. If we look a few years back when he first came to the Skins, who was on the other side of him? Does the name "Future Hall of Famer" and probably "Best Corner of All Time" (Those quotes were just my opinion) Darrell Green enter your mind? Let's take a look at what the opposing offenses had to throw at. When you have Green (the Greatest of all time) in the secondary and then Bailey (his protege'), how do you think Bailey got the "Shut Down" title. Considering they weren't going to throw at Darrell, so they were only left with throwing at Bailey. All it would take is a few good plays for him to get the label as "Shut down" Granted during Green's last couple of years, he lost a step and got beat. But that's when Smooooot came in. To me..Smoot is a much better "all-a-round" corner. Not only does he sacrifice his body for the team, but he actually is a great coverage corner..and smart too. I think Smoot learned alot from Darrell and also from Bailey. Now with Springs added. I think we have one of the best secondaries and will for the next few years. IMO, the Skins getting Portis was a much better deal. While Bailey does have the chance to cause game breaking plays, Portis will be making game breaking runs. Even though Portis has not had the Greatest Season so far, I expect him to pick up the pace and start running over opponents. Post your thoughts too. All are welcome and read. GO SKINS!!!!!

10-26-2004, 04:50 PM	#2
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,569	I'm not going to jump on the "let's bash Bailey after one bad night" bandwagon. Let's not blow things out of proportion here, he is still one of the top 3 corners in the league, that's not even up for debate. All great corners get beat, sometimes just for a play and sometimes for an entire game like last night. Even our beloved Darrell Green was beat on occassion, and I can remember him having his share of rough outings too. The difference between a great corner and a good one is the ability to forget the last play and keep coming back for more. Sooner or later a great corner will make you pay. Last night's game doesn't change my opinion of Champ in the least bit, and it hasn't changed his opinion of himself, as it shouldn't.

10-26-2004, 04:58 PM	#3
dragontat7169 Camp Scrub Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 92	Matty...I agree with you and I disagree. The parts you are saying about a great corner are definitely true. Great Corners do come back to play and forget the bad play or game before. But I just don't see Champ as being a "Great" Corner. I seem to remember him gettting beat last season quite a bit. I see him as being a "Good" corner..just not Great. I know, almost everyone else in the league thinks he is great...I personally just don't see it. For once Matty, we disagree on something..LOL. I might be the only person seeing him as Good..but I still think we got the better deal with Portis. With Springs, Smoot and Taylor in the Secondary...we are going to be great for years to come.

10-26-2004, 05:01 PM	#4
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	As of this week: Redskins: #1 Defense w/o Champ, 95 points allowed Broncos: #2 Defense with Champ, 100 points allowed Since they have been flip-flopping in the ratings, I'll call it even. Portis: 593 yards in 6 games: 98.83 average Griffen as feature back: 295 yards in 4 games Droughns as feature back: 479 yards in 3 games Combined: 774 yards in 7 games: 110.57 average Slight edge to Denver. That said, Portis is just getting acclimated to the new system and should be more consistent the rest of the year. Plus, if our passing game had a pulse, we would probably have actually built decent leads in a couple games, and would have run more in the second half, so it would probably be more even. Really, I think both teams made out well and got what they wanted. This is what I thought when the trade was made, and it appears to hold true almost halfway through the season.

10-26-2004, 05:03 PM	#5
EEich The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bristol, CT Age: 61 Posts: 1,001	I agree he's very good... but he's not the best. He falls down too often to be the best. That fall last night reminded me of his game against the Giants last year at Fedex.

10-26-2004, 05:05 PM	#6
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,569	I don't regret letting Champ go, I think Portis is going to be great for us. I just disagree that he's not a "great" corner. Dragon, if Bailey isn't one of the best I'd like to hear your short list as to who you think is better.

10-26-2004, 05:17 PM	#8
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 53 Posts: 2,665	I think Bailey is a great corner. I think that everyone just wants to believe that he is not so great now that he wears another uniform. He got beat last night but there is not a corner alive who doesn't get beat. I am still skepticle of the trade. I think we gave up to much for Portis. The trade should not have included a 2nd round pick since a corner of Baileys ability is much harder to find than a RB. That has been discussed to death on this site though. However, can anyone honestly say that they are not worried about Portis being a system back now that we have seen yet another Denver RB go from obscurity to Pro Bowler in matter of weeks? Portis until this past week has struggled in Washington's system yet Denver still has thier running game going for the most part. I don't know about you but that sure has me worried.

10-26-2004, 05:22 PM	#9
JudgeJebus Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 85	I think what this season shows is that this trade was a true win-win situtation, which is probably why it happened despite the fact that such blockbuster trades are so rare in the NFL. Gibbs needed a solid running back, and he got one. Our running game with Portis is greatly improved compared with last year, and should only get better. And our defense is stellar even without Bailey. Denver decided that its priority was in upgrading its defense, and it has done just that. Moreover, Mike Shanahan is demonstrating very persuasively that he truly can plug any running back into his system and make it work. I mean, had anyone heard of Droughns at the beginning of this season?

10-26-2004, 05:26 PM	#11
hurrykaine Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Washington, D.C. Age: 51 Posts: 762	Bailey is a great athlete, and a good corner. Someone rightly pointed out that Marv Lewis knew better than to respect his "shutdown cover corner" status and ended up testing CB pretty good. However, for Denver to claim that they came out on top of the Bailey-Portis trade, they have to better last year's performance (1st round playoffs), which they will not do for two reasons IMHO: 1. Shanahan is the biggest coaching sham in the league. What has he achieved with their admittedly excellent running game since Elway left? 2. No one will win the big game with Jake the Mistake as their QB. He's got to be the paragon of inconsistency at the QB position.

10-26-2004, 05:41 PM	#14
illdefined Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: nyc Age: 48 Posts: 2,631	corners are intentionally hobbled this year by the new rule don't forget, so Champ would be less effective this year no matter how good he is. but im glad Lewis threw at him so much. MOXIE!

The Truth about Champ! Portis-Champ Trade Analysis.

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