ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/18/randle-el-dan-snyder-held-jim-zorn-back/]Randle El: Dan Snyder held Jim Zorn back | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

I knew eventually A former player would come out and trash DS. Randle El never lived up to his hype either. So he really can't talk much.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Honestly a man who calls a stretch play when in the endzone doesn't deserve a chance. Zorn isn't a head coach. The only reason he looked good in 08 was because the players were taking everything from the 07 season.

Hell, Zorn calling the stretch plays, never changing up game plans, using Moss and Randle El rather than Kelly and Thomas in the endzone. He just isn't a coach.

He's a good QB coach, but that's it.

Out of all players though, Randle El, talk about a man who was given more than a chance and never did a damn thing. Ugh makes me sick even thinking about all those fair catches when he had room to run and no fair catches when he didn't have anything.

Glad they are both gone, the end.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

^ Agreed. He is one of the last people to talk about the previous regime. It would be nice to hear some real insight about what was going on in the past. I mean was Daniel Snyder calling plays like Al davis? Doubtful on that one. I also doubt Dan had any input on the game plan for Sundays.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

I guess DS held ARE back to.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

He didn't meddle enough it seems. Because I remember at least two occassions last year when Danny Smith and other assistants wanted to and did bench ARE from returning punts...only to have ARE plead his case to Zorn who would overrule the other coaches (as was his right) and keep ARE on the field to return punts when clearly he no longer should have been.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Meh, could be true. However, even though was held back, Zorn did lack some of the necessary skills to be a OC, like making the right playcalls and adjustments, and lacked some of the skills to be a HC, like communicating with his players and managing what was going on. I think he have made this team look even more talentless than it actually was.

And yeah ARE, you came here to get paid and got paid.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=SmootSmack;712957]He didn't meddle enough it seems. [B]Because I remember at least two occassions last year when Danny Smith and other assistants wanted to and did bench ARE from returning punts...only to have ARE plead his case to Zorn who would overrule the other coaches (as was his right) and keep ARE on the field to return punts when clearly he no longer [/B][B]should have been[/B].[/quote]


Damm! I forgot about that.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

I also remember after Gibbs left, ARE said that Gibbs held the team back as well. So anyway, this isn't meant to bash Randle El. Just saying that he seems to have a lot to discuss, but perhaps not much to really say.

Anyhow, what's done is done. Good luck to Zorn in Baltimore, Randle El in Pittsburgh, and Hail to the Redskins!

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

El is just mad that shanny didn't want him. Yea he was good In Pittsburgh bcuz of the players around him. ( ward, Ben, plax, bus etc.) but when he was asked to be a number 2, he couldn't do it. Now he's back at the 3 spot and it wouldn't shock me if he played well again.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

This is another classic case of finger pointing, when you should look no further than the mirror. ARE and Zorn, both good guys.

The one thing in common they both share. Neither one did a notable job for the REDSKINS, underachievers. In Zorns case had way to much on his plate from the day old bug eyes/Dan promoted him to Head Coach before he spent a week trying to figure out how he was going to do the job he was hired to do in the first place.

Good luck, but VERY glad both are gone.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;712964]This is another classic case of finger pointing, when you should look no further than the mirror. [B]ARE and Zorn, both good guys. [/B]

The one thing in common they both share. Neither one did a notable job for the REDSKINS, underachievers. In Zorns case had way to much on his plate from the day old bug eyes/Dan promoted him to Head Coach before he spent a week trying to figure out how he was going to do the job he was hired to do in the first place.

Good luck, [B]but VERY glad both are gone[/B].[/quote]


well said, i totally agree.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

I think its partially true.
Zorn had too much on his plate from the start so any lack of support or meddling from the Owner or his minion Vinny C was a recipe for what we saw.

Zorn was a 1st time HC who had never been an NFL OC, his OC was also a 1st timer from a different scheme so Zorn was the defacto OC and had to create an entire playbook from scratch, with QB coach was a 1st timer from Div III St.Olaf so Zorn was the defacto QB coach.

Is any of the above Synder's fault?

Its debateable.

But, one thing i noticed is that the RZ playcalling improved drastically and Jason Campbell finished as one of the better RZ QBs in the league when Sherman Lewis took the other playcalling duties off Zorn's plate but guess who remained the RZ playcaller?
Yep, the very same Jim Zorn.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

ARE sucks donkey balls.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=30gut;712974]I think its partially true.
Zorn had too much on his plate from the start so any lack of support or meddling from the Owner or his minion Vinny C was a recipe for what we saw.

Zorn was a 1st time HC who had never been an NFL OC, his OC was also a 1st timer from a different scheme so Zorn was the defacto OC and had to create an entire playbook from scratch, with QB coach was a 1st timer from Div III St.Olaf so Zorn was the defacto QB coach.

[B]Is any of the above Synder's fault?

Its debateable.[/B]

But, one thing i noticed is that the RZ playcalling improved drastically and Jason Campbell finished as one of the better RZ QBs in the league when Sherman Lewis took the other playcalling duties off Zorn's plate but guess who remained the [B]RZ playcaller?
Yep, the very same Jim Zorn.[/B][/quote]

Debatable, how so? The man writes the checks and owns the team. Of course it's his fault. No matter what bug eyes said or didn't say as far as hiring decisions Dan has to take full responsibility for the mistake as he agreed or Zorn would have never been the Head Coach. After 1000 hours of interviews, nights on the town, fine meals, sleep overs and cuddling at the mansion, Dan has final say so in this matter.

And you must have had the only head set on, that worked. After that circus act "called football around week 6", I bet there isn't a living ass that could tell you who was calling plays in the RedZone, including the entire team. Due to the fact that everyone involved with the Redskins org./coaching staff/players appeared to be totally clueless for the last 10 weeks of the 2009 season it's all in the record books.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Of course he didn't have a chance. He shouldn't have been a HC in the first place. The Zorn hire can be blamed on Snyder though. The reason he got stuck hiring Zorn was his personality and crazy Steinbrenneresque FO management style. Couldn't get a serious HC if they didn't want to become the next lame duck HC. I like what has transpired the last 8 months, but DS can still take back the reins whenever he likes.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;712977]Debatable, how so? The man writes the checks and owns the team. Of course it's his fault. No matter what bug eyes said or didn't say as far as hiring decisions Dan has to take full responsibility for the mistake as he agreed or Zorn would have never been the Head Coach. After 1000 hours of interviews, nights on the town, fine meals, sleep overs and cuddling at the mansion, Dan has final say so in this matter.

And you must have had the only head set on, that worked. After that circus act "called football around week 6", I bet there isn't a living ass that could tell you who was calling plays in the RedZone, including the entire team. Due to the fact that everyone involved with the Redskins org./coaching staff/players appeared to be totally clueless for the last 10 weeks of the 2009 season it's all in the record books.[/quote]


If Dan wasn't a Steinbrenner wannabe, Zorn would have never been hired.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

I'm so done with last year. Bring on training camp!

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=SmootSmack;712961]I also remember after Gibbs left, ARE said that Gibbs held the team back as well. So anyway, this isn't meant to bash Randle El. Just saying that he seems to have a lot to discuss, but perhaps not much to really say.

Anyhow, what's done is done. Good luck to Zorn in Baltimore, Randle El in Pittsburgh, and Hail to the Redskins![/quote]

ARE was always a joker when it came to his time here in DC. Never seemed to take it seriously and was such a HAM to the camera all the time.

He is the ultimate when it came to "Player Speak".

For those of you detracting Zorn as incompetent and only a QB coach be reminded who appointed him as a head coach.

Snyder's meddling did appoint a highly inexperienced coach to make an ass of himself on national television. Head coach should be a selection performed by a capable GM and not someone as inept at competitive football as Dan Snyder.

Like it or not, Zorn's huge shortcomings are directly reflected on Snyder's hands on meddling.



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Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Dan hired Zorn at the recomendation of Vinny Cerato. You can't put it all on Dan.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

It was a giant Cluster**##@ all the away around. excuse my language

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Dan and Vinny were hoping to strike it lucky and pull an inexperienced assistant like Zorn and watch him develop into another Joe Gibbs. The difference is that Joe was brought in by Bobby and Jack. They kinda knew what they were doing.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;712993]For those of you detracting Zorn as incompetent and only a QB coach be reminded who appointed him as a head coach.

Snyder's meddling did appoint a highly inexperienced coach to make an ass of himself on national television. Head coach should be a selection performed by a capable GM and not someone as inept at competitive football as Dan Snyder.

Like it or not, Zorn's huge shortcomings are directly reflected on Snyder's hands on meddling.



Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk[/quote]

Except for the fact that Zorn's hiring was actually Cerrato's move. Had it been Snyder's call it most likely would have been Fassel, but he and Cerrato wouldn't get along. And Snyder made the decision to entrust all football and administrative decisions to Cerrato. And Cerrato wanted Zorn.

So if you're going to blame Snyder for anything, blame him for giving complete control to Cerrato.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Another thing that i'm surprised nobody has talked about was the fact that nobody in the organization would support Zorn's decisions.

For example, it's been known that Zorn wanted to bench certain players, but he was told in no uncertain terms who he could play. We know he wanted to discipline portis for not practicing and refusing to workout and stuff, but Portis was always in Snyder's pocket so it never happened.

The bottom line is that he really didn't have a chance here. Cerrato already appointed the roster and Zorn knew he could not make changes to it as he wanted. Very sad really, but that has been the state of this franchise for the past 11 years, hopefully it is now turned around.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=SmootSmack;713007]So if you're going to blame Snyder for anything, blame him for giving complete control to Cerrato.[/quote]

Bingo...

The problem since DS has the held the team have been twofold. Initially too much DS involvement. Then when Gibbs came along he scaled that back. Then when Gibbs left he gave everything to Vinny...and Vinny wasn't very good. End of story. Is it time for training camp yet?

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

ARE is a gadget play player they never should have signed, I'm glad he's gone. I still think Zorn could be successful with the right players. The biggest thing that went against Zorn is that he didnt have a functional QB and because of that he was really hamstrung with what he was trying to do. I think if Zorn had McNabb he'd have better results.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;713010]Another thing that i'm surprised nobody has talked about was the fact that nobody in the organization would support Zorn's decisions.

For example, it's been known that Zorn wanted to bench certain players, but he was told in no uncertain terms who he could play. We know he wanted to discipline portis for not practicing and refusing to workout and stuff, but Portis was always in Snyder's pocket so it never happened.

The bottom line is that he really didn't have a chance here. Cerrato already appointed the roster and Zorn knew he could not make changes to it as he wanted. Very sad really, but that has been the state of this franchise for the past 11 years, hopefully it is now turned around.[/quote]

Wasn't Cerrato who said "You need to go get Shaun Alexander"

Zorn probably shouldn't have been hired in the first place and given a job he likely didn't deserve, but don't blame him for accepting it. Still, let's not totally absolve him of any blame simply because he's a good guy.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Zorn was horrible, ARE was horrible, Vinny was horrible. everybody had equal opportunity to do something. The problem is they were all overpaid and horrible at what they did. end of story.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Im not absolving Zorn of blame totally. I really dont think that it was all his fault totally. It's just his general ineptitude coupled with the team problems as a whole doomed us.

Anyway, i'm so over 2009.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Who is this ARE fella? ;)

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;713027]Im not absolving Zorn of blame totally. I really dont think that it was all his fault totally. It's just his general ineptitude coupled with the team problems as a whole doomed us.

Anyway, i'm so over 2009.[/quote]

In industry if somebody takes a position that's way above their head part of the problem lies with them. A larger part may lie with whomever hired him, but you need to respect the position that you're willing to accept. Zorn would have a hard time finding an OC job right now which honestly was a stretch with his initial hiring. He may be a fine QB coach if you attribute Charlie Batch and Matt Hasselbeck to him but there was nothing indicating that he was ready for the next step in my opinion.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=SmootSmack;712961]I also remember after Gibbs left, ARE said that Gibbs held the team back as well. So anyway, this isn't meant to bash Randle El. Just saying that he seems to have a lot to discuss, but perhaps not much to really say.

Anyhow, what's done is done. Good luck to Zorn in Baltimore, Randle El in Pittsburgh, and Hail to the Redskins![/quote]

You know this article appears a little strange to me. I can't remember just where, but recently I read where RE actually praised the Redskin organization and the coaching staff, chalked their lack of a better winning percentage on thing out of their control [like injuries] etc.

I'll say this for RE, he may have fallen short of everyone's expectations, but he never trashed his teammates.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=dblanch66;712999]Dan and Vinny were hoping to strike it lucky and pull an inexperienced assistant like Zorn and watch him develop into another Joe Gibbs. The difference is that Joe was brought in by Bobby and Jack. They kinda knew what they were doing.[/quote]


Very good point. Vinny and Dan, as a team, were gamblers who would basically flip a coin and hope for success.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

All Zorn did was erase erase Steve Spurrier as the worst coach in Redskin history.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

[quote=mredskins;713108]All Zorn did was erase erase Steve Spurrier as the worst coach in Redskin history.[/quote]

I dont think Zorn was THAT bad....come on guys

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

I'm really done with rehashing the Zorn era, but the guy was pretty damn bad. I still think Spurrier was worse, simply because Spurrier wasn't a NFL guy and didn't want to put in the work, but Zorn was pretty much a joke of a head coach in many ways.

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Spurrier was the worst ever, as he was so out of his league it wasn't even funny. The same could be said for Zorn, but at least he put in the work to try and get better. He also was always an NFL guy. Spurrier was a guy who loved golf, not the NFL. :)

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

Cooley wieghed in as well with the Washington Post.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/07/cooley_says_zorn_lost_the_lock.html]D.C. Sports Bog - Cooley says Zorn lost the locker room[/url]

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

quiet offseason so far for Cooley

any insight to what's behind that?

Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"
 

we've got a professional NFL head coach so really no need to talk about zorn. it's over and done with.