ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"

skinsfaninok · 07-18-2010, 06:01 PM

Randle El: Dan Snyder held Jim Zorn back | ProFootballTalk.com

I knew eventually A former player would come out and trash DS. Randle El never lived up to his hype either. So he really can't talk much.

InsaneBoost · 07-18-2010, 06:24 PM

Honestly a man who calls a stretch play when in the endzone doesn't deserve a chance. Zorn isn't a head coach. The only reason he looked good in 08 was because the players were taking everything from the 07 season.

Hell, Zorn calling the stretch plays, never changing up game plans, using Moss and Randle El rather than Kelly and Thomas in the endzone. He just isn't a coach.

He's a good QB coach, but that's it.

Out of all players though, Randle El, talk about a man who was given more than a chance and never did a damn thing. Ugh makes me sick even thinking about all those fair catches when he had room to run and no fair catches when he didn't have anything.

Glad they are both gone, the end.

artmonkforhallofamein07 · 07-18-2010, 06:45 PM

^ Agreed. He is one of the last people to talk about the previous regime. It would be nice to hear some real insight about what was going on in the past. I mean was Daniel Snyder calling plays like Al davis? Doubtful on that one. I also doubt Dan had any input on the game plan for Sundays.

chewman · 07-18-2010, 06:47 PM

I guess DS held ARE back to.

SmootSmack · 07-18-2010, 07:24 PM

He didn't meddle enough it seems. Because I remember at least two occassions last year when Danny Smith and other assistants wanted to and did bench ARE from returning punts...only to have ARE plead his case to Zorn who would overrule the other coaches (as was his right) and keep ARE on the field to return punts when clearly he no longer should have been.

SirClintonPortis · 07-18-2010, 07:26 PM

Meh, could be true. However, even though was held back, Zorn did lack some of the necessary skills to be a OC, like making the right playcalls and adjustments, and lacked some of the skills to be a HC, like communicating with his players and managing what was going on. I think he have made this team look even more talentless than it actually was.

And yeah ARE, you came here to get paid and got paid.

NYCskinfan82 · 07-18-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

He didn't meddle enough it seems. Because I remember at least two occassions last year when Danny Smith and other assistants wanted to and did bench ARE from returning punts...only to have ARE plead his case to Zorn who would overrule the other coaches (as was his right) and keep ARE on the field to return punts when clearly he no longer should have been.

Damm! I forgot about that.

SmootSmack · 07-18-2010, 07:32 PM

I also remember after Gibbs left, ARE said that Gibbs held the team back as well. So anyway, this isn't meant to bash Randle El. Just saying that he seems to have a lot to discuss, but perhaps not much to really say.

Anyhow, what's done is done. Good luck to Zorn in Baltimore, Randle El in Pittsburgh, and Hail to the Redskins!

skinsfaninok · 07-18-2010, 07:40 PM

El is just mad that shanny didn't want him. Yea he was good In Pittsburgh bcuz of the players around him. ( ward, Ben, plax, bus etc.) but when he was asked to be a number 2, he couldn't do it. Now he's back at the 3 spot and it wouldn't shock me if he played well again.

skinsfan_nn · 07-18-2010, 07:53 PM

This is another classic case of finger pointing, when you should look no further than the mirror. ARE and Zorn, both good guys.

The one thing in common they both share. Neither one did a notable job for the REDSKINS, underachievers. In Zorns case had way to much on his plate from the day old bug eyes/Dan promoted him to Head Coach before he spent a week trying to figure out how he was going to do the job he was hired to do in the first place.

Good luck, but VERY glad both are gone.

wolfeskins · 07-18-2010, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan_nn

This is another classic case of finger pointing, when you should look no further than the mirror. ARE and Zorn, both good guys.

The one thing in common they both share. Neither one did a notable job for the REDSKINS, underachievers. In Zorns case had way to much on his plate from the day old bug eyes/Dan promoted him to Head Coach before he spent a week trying to figure out how he was going to do the job he was hired to do in the first place.

Good luck, but VERY glad both are gone.

well said, i totally agree.

30gut · 07-18-2010, 10:13 PM

I think its partially true.
Zorn had too much on his plate from the start so any lack of support or meddling from the Owner or his minion Vinny C was a recipe for what we saw.

Zorn was a 1st time HC who had never been an NFL OC, his OC was also a 1st timer from a different scheme so Zorn was the defacto OC and had to create an entire playbook from scratch, with QB coach was a 1st timer from Div III St.Olaf so Zorn was the defacto QB coach.

Is any of the above Synder's fault?

Its debateable.

But, one thing i noticed is that the RZ playcalling improved drastically and Jason Campbell finished as one of the better RZ QBs in the league when Sherman Lewis took the other playcalling duties off Zorn's plate but guess who remained the RZ playcaller?
Yep, the very same Jim Zorn.

wilsowilso · 07-18-2010, 10:39 PM

ARE sucks donkey balls.

skinsfan_nn · 07-18-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think its partially true.
Zorn had too much on his plate from the start so any lack of support or meddling from the Owner or his minion Vinny C was a recipe for what we saw.

Zorn was a 1st time HC who had never been an NFL OC, his OC was also a 1st timer from a different scheme so Zorn was the defacto OC and had to create an entire playbook from scratch, with QB coach was a 1st timer from Div III St.Olaf so Zorn was the defacto QB coach.

Is any of the above Synder's fault?

Its debateable.

But, one thing i noticed is that the RZ playcalling improved drastically and Jason Campbell finished as one of the better RZ QBs in the league when Sherman Lewis took the other playcalling duties off Zorn's plate but guess who remained the RZ playcaller?
Yep, the very same Jim Zorn.

Debatable, how so? The man writes the checks and owns the team. Of course it's his fault. No matter what bug eyes said or didn't say as far as hiring decisions Dan has to take full responsibility for the mistake as he agreed or Zorn would have never been the Head Coach. After 1000 hours of interviews, nights on the town, fine meals, sleep overs and cuddling at the mansion, Dan has final say so in this matter.

And you must have had the only head set on, that worked. After that circus act "called football around week 6", I bet there isn't a living ass that could tell you who was calling plays in the RedZone, including the entire team. Due to the fact that everyone involved with the Redskins org./coaching staff/players appeared to be totally clueless for the last 10 weeks of the 2009 season it's all in the record books.

GusFrerotte · 07-18-2010, 11:04 PM

Of course he didn't have a chance. He shouldn't have been a HC in the first place. The Zorn hire can be blamed on Snyder though. The reason he got stuck hiring Zorn was his personality and crazy Steinbrenneresque FO management style. Couldn't get a serious HC if they didn't want to become the next lame duck HC. I like what has transpired the last 8 months, but DS can still take back the reins whenever he likes.

07-18-2010, 06:01 PM	#1
skinsfaninok Warpath Hall of Fame Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UNITED STATES Age: 38 Posts: 36,149	ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" Randle El: Dan Snyder held Jim Zorn back \| ProFootballTalk.com I knew eventually A former player would come out and trash DS. Randle El never lived up to his hype either. So he really can't talk much. __________________ “Mediocre people don’t like high achievers, and high achievers don’t like mediocre people.” ― Nick Saban

07-18-2010, 06:24 PM	#2
InsaneBoost The Starter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: DC Age: 36 Posts: 1,300	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" Honestly a man who calls a stretch play when in the endzone doesn't deserve a chance. Zorn isn't a head coach. The only reason he looked good in 08 was because the players were taking everything from the 07 season. Hell, Zorn calling the stretch plays, never changing up game plans, using Moss and Randle El rather than Kelly and Thomas in the endzone. He just isn't a coach. He's a good QB coach, but that's it. Out of all players though, Randle El, talk about a man who was given more than a chance and never did a damn thing. Ugh makes me sick even thinking about all those fair catches when he had room to run and no fair catches when he didn't have anything. Glad they are both gone, the end. __________________

07-18-2010, 06:45 PM	#3
artmonkforhallofamein07 Pro Bowl Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Charleston , SC Posts: 5,001	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" ^ Agreed. He is one of the last people to talk about the previous regime. It would be nice to hear some real insight about what was going on in the past. I mean was Daniel Snyder calling plays like Al davis? Doubtful on that one. I also doubt Dan had any input on the game plan for Sundays. __________________ Just win.

07-18-2010, 06:47 PM	#4
chewman Special Teams Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pasadena,MD Posts: 140	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" I guess DS held ARE back to.

07-18-2010, 07:24 PM	#5
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" He didn't meddle enough it seems. Because I remember at least two occassions last year when Danny Smith and other assistants wanted to and did bench ARE from returning punts...only to have ARE plead his case to Zorn who would overrule the other coaches (as was his right) and keep ARE on the field to return punts when clearly he no longer should have been. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

07-18-2010, 07:26 PM	#6
SirClintonPortis Pro Bowl Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,052	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" Meh, could be true. However, even though was held back, Zorn did lack some of the necessary skills to be a OC, like making the right playcalls and adjustments, and lacked some of the skills to be a HC, like communicating with his players and managing what was going on. I think he have made this team look even more talentless than it actually was. And yeah ARE, you came here to get paid and got paid. __________________ Analysis using datasets (aka stats) is an attempt at reverse-engineering a player's "goodness". Virtuosity remembered, douchebaggery forgotten. The ideal character profile shoved down modern Western men and women's throats is Don Juan.

07-18-2010, 07:32 PM	#8
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" I also remember after Gibbs left, ARE said that Gibbs held the team back as well. So anyway, this isn't meant to bash Randle El. Just saying that he seems to have a lot to discuss, but perhaps not much to really say. Anyhow, what's done is done. Good luck to Zorn in Baltimore, Randle El in Pittsburgh, and Hail to the Redskins! __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

07-18-2010, 07:40 PM	#9
skinsfaninok Warpath Hall of Fame Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UNITED STATES Age: 38 Posts: 36,149	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" El is just mad that shanny didn't want him. Yea he was good In Pittsburgh bcuz of the players around him. ( ward, Ben, plax, bus etc.) but when he was asked to be a number 2, he couldn't do it. Now he's back at the 3 spot and it wouldn't shock me if he played well again. __________________ “Mediocre people don’t like high achievers, and high achievers don’t like mediocre people.” ― Nick Saban

07-18-2010, 07:53 PM	#10
skinsfan_nn Playmaker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Newport News,Virginia Age: 60 Posts: 4,495	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" This is another classic case of finger pointing, when you should look no further than the mirror. ARE and Zorn, both good guys. The one thing in common they both share. Neither one did a notable job for the REDSKINS, underachievers. In Zorns case had way to much on his plate from the day old bug eyes/Dan promoted him to Head Coach before he spent a week trying to figure out how he was going to do the job he was hired to do in the first place. Good luck, but VERY glad both are gone. __________________ "There's no greater feeling than moving a man from Point A to Point B, against his will." #68 THANKS COACH GIBBS FOR EVERYTHING! YOUR THE MAN AND ALWAYS WILL BE!

07-18-2010, 10:13 PM	#12
30gut Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,323	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" I think its partially true. Zorn had too much on his plate from the start so any lack of support or meddling from the Owner or his minion Vinny C was a recipe for what we saw. Zorn was a 1st time HC who had never been an NFL OC, his OC was also a 1st timer from a different scheme so Zorn was the defacto OC and had to create an entire playbook from scratch, with QB coach was a 1st timer from Div III St.Olaf so Zorn was the defacto QB coach. Is any of the above Synder's fault? Its debateable. But, one thing i noticed is that the RZ playcalling improved drastically and Jason Campbell finished as one of the better RZ QBs in the league when Sherman Lewis took the other playcalling duties off Zorn's plate but guess who remained the RZ playcaller? Yep, the very same Jim Zorn.

07-18-2010, 10:39 PM	#13
wilsowilso Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Age: 51 Posts: 2,841	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" ARE sucks donkey balls. Last edited by wilsowilso; 07-18-2010 at 11:12 PM.

07-18-2010, 11:04 PM	#15
GusFrerotte Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Detroit area Posts: 4,153	Re: ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance" Of course he didn't have a chance. He shouldn't have been a HC in the first place. The Zorn hire can be blamed on Snyder though. The reason he got stuck hiring Zorn was his personality and crazy Steinbrenneresque FO management style. Couldn't get a serious HC if they didn't want to become the next lame duck HC. I like what has transpired the last 8 months, but DS can still take back the reins whenever he likes.

ARE: "Zorn never had a real chance"

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