Draft Order
 

It look's like our little victory today cost us at least 6 spot's in the draft order we will be picking 11th, I guess all that momentum we created today for next year will be worth it though.

6-10 and picking 11th? wow, lots of bad teams this years

I think that's fine - at least it will end all the discussions of us drafting Mike Williams.

The DEs in the first round are all supposed to go between 11-20 anyway.

[QUOTE=offiss]I guess all that momentum we created today for next year will be worth it though.[/QUOTE]

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

If sarcastic, sorry - I think it's BS to lose a game to move up 5 slots. The draft is crapshoot at best (Ben Rothlesberger anyone?) Cultivating an attitude that it is important to win every game, every quarter, every play even if nothing appears to be on the line is much much more important.

5 or six plays separated us from being a 9-7 or 10-6 team. Play every moment to win. It's the only way to prepare for winning when you absolutely have to.

If you were being serious - please pardon my rant.

I think losing today would have been the better option. It does nothing. We didn't play spoiler to Minnesota. It apparently created contreversy as to the starting RB should be. (That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard) And it dropped us in the draft. Who cares?

i care because i like to see the redskins win, and the players like to win i would hope.

[QUOTE=jdlea]I think losing today would have been the better option. It does nothing. We didn't play spoiler to Minnesota. It apparently created contreversy as to the starting RB should be. (That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard) And it dropped us in the draft. Who cares?[/QUOTE]

i guess we found a true skins fan here, LMAO

I'm never going to complain about a win, even when it costs us some draft spots.

I am a Redskins fan, but my patience with this team is wearing thin. I am a fan of the entire NFL, but the Redskins are my favorite team. I look at the big picture. I was cheering my ass off today and I was happy that they won. In retrospect, however, all it did was hurt them. I think I heard something about the Arizona Cardinals last season that I would say applies to the Redskins "they're so bad they can't even lose the right games." If not trying to put a smile on everything this team does is not being a true Skins fan then I wear it as a badge of honor. Was I happy they won? Yes. Do I think it was a good thing? Not particularly. It didn't help and who cares if you end the season with a win if is only your 6th.

I agree one meaningless win in week 17 doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme and I'm not saying today eases the pain of the season in the least bit. Given the choice though, I feel much better ending the season the way we did than if we just rolled over today and got smoked 35-10.

The team over the course of the season has shown a ton of heart and fight, and it never decreased even when times got tough and when the team pretty much knew they were out of it. The character of the team was tested this year, and they reacted in the way a Gibbs team reacts, they fight and scrap til the very end.

This season helped weed out the non-core Skins, and helped shine the light on guys Gibbs knows he can go to war with next year and build the foundation of the team upon.

6-10 is what it is, it sucks. The naysayers will say that Gibbs had a bad year, and even some idiots will say he should be fired. I agree he's had a rough first season full of adjusting, and at times the 'new' NFL has hit him like a slap in the face. But what we can hang our hats on is the fact Gibbs is going to work his tail off to get this straightened out and on the right track.

The '04 season might have ended today, but the '05 season starts tomorrow for Gibbs.

I feel Gibbs had a poor season, but as Matty said, it was a season for adjusting. That doesn't mean he won't figure it out. We had a lot of problems this year, but not once did I see the team give up like I have before. All of that credit lands directly on Gibbs shoulders. He's a great leader, I just hope he can get his playcalling and clock management skills to a quarter of what his leadership skills are - and we're going to the super bowl.

The higher your pick, the more cash you gotta shell out. 11th is fine.

I agree with Bozzy, if we are headed for cap trouble then why would you want a top 5 pick and have to shell out money which will only hurt us later on in the cap situation? Besides this win today does alot for the team as a whole!!

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]I agree with Bozzy, if we are headed for cap trouble then why would you want a top 5 pick and have to shell out money which will only hurt us later on in the cap situation? Besides this win today does alot for the team as a whole!![/QUOTE]


It's simple the higher the pick the more pick's you can deal down for, we need to deal down and draft linemen, 11th pick limit's our ability to do that.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]Are you being serious or sarcastic?

If sarcastic, sorry - I think it's BS to lose a game to move up 5 slots. The draft is crapshoot at best (Ben Rothlesberger anyone?) Cultivating an attitude that it is important to win every game, every quarter, every play even if nothing appears to be on the line is much much more important.

5 or six plays separated us from being a 9-7 or 10-6 team. Play every moment to win. It's the only way to prepare for winning when you absolutely have to.

If you were being serious - please pardon my rant.[/QUOTE]


The draft is only a crapshoot to those who are incapable of evaluating talent, no need for a pardon I am absolutly serious, I play to win, and if losing will help me win that much quicker than by all mean's, I am not interested in bragging right's over a meaningless game that may cost us the kind of talent that may put us over the top, celebrating a meaningless win that cost's our team talent is like endzone dancing with 10 second's left in the game and your losing by 30 point's.

Two things the draft it is only worth drafting high if there are real players available . the only real impact player i have heard of so far is Mike Williams and many comentators say there are no must have picks this year.

Secondally what does it say about the team leadership if they go to the players and go ah well best not win this one, best not play your hearts out we will be able to pick it up again later. Then where does it stop your 5-7 next year do you mail the rest of the season in to get the best available draft pick? Just not try against the best teams to conserve your efforts to beat the not so good teams?

Every game means something no-one should be compeating for the wooden spoon okay in the big scheme of things it ment nothing in terms of post season but to everyone of the players out there Betts, Harris, Taylor etc etc the fact that they know they gave it their best and beat a playoff team who had everything to play for gives them a little more self belif which is far more valuble than being told to throw a game so they can get some Rookie who has at best a 50-50 chance of panning out in the nest two years and would cost a bunch of $$$$.

One other thing sure it is easier to deal out of 5th pick than the 11th but there has to be some intrinsant value in the pick. In a below average draft clas high pick is just going to cost you money .

Also if you can evaluate talent it really doesn't matter where you pick becasue you can always get the best player available . Picking in top five is typically expensive and really a no brainer but never gifts sucess and we realy are not one rookie away from being great.

If you look at it, rookie first round draft picks rarely make huge contributions anyway. Ben Roethlisberger is the exception to the rule. Remember back in March and April when everyone was ringing their hands about whether we would pick Sean Taylor or Kellen Winslow Jr. ? In the grand scheme of things, how much did our first round draft pick really change anything about the outcome of the season?

Too much emphasis is placed on the draft. I'm as interested in who we pick and what positions we address this offseason as anyone else, but rookies usually never put a team over the top, if they even get a chance to break into the starting lineup. It's the veterans who make the difference.

Draft order
 

Does anyone have a link to the draft order as of today? I know the playoff teams haven't been slotted yet, but where are we picking in April after finishing 4th in the East?

This one has us picking 9th

[url]http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/draft/update[/url]

We will be officially picking 8th somehow. I don't how we are higher than Detroit, but that's what came across the bottom line this morning.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]5 or six plays separated us from being a 9-7 or 10-6 team. Play every moment to win. It's the only way to prepare for winning when you absolutely have to.[/QUOTE]

Amen...

I think, as a team, we played at about a 9-7 level this year. Our defense was just plain that good that we should have won 9 games in a perfect vacuum. Of course there is not perfect vacuum and accounting for plain old luck and officials mistakes got us down to 6-10. Not blaming the refs really just looking at it as objectively as I could. Every team plays plays with the same issues and over time they even out but on a year to year basis I think teams get screwed out fo games they should have won. I guess it was our turn to get screwed a bit. Hopefully next year we come back with a little more talent and luck and less officials problems and we go 12-4 which is totally possible even with the exact same team next year.

[QUOTE=jdlea]We will be officially picking 8th somehow. I don't how we are higher than Detroit, but that's what came across the bottom line this morning.[/QUOTE]


Great! I think that Giant win last night helped a lot, I can live with the #8 pick we now have some bargaining power, I still say we have to trade down, and get a big time center whether it be by draft, or free agency is imperative to the success of our team next year, we have to AND I mean HAVE TO get someone in there who can man the middle, I would replace Samuel's as well unless he really restructures his contract, I was up in the air about Dockery and tries to keep a close eye on him to evaluate, and I think he's really coming along infact if we get a quality center next to him we could be talking greatness for this kid.

FRPLG:

Not to rain on your parade, but the Redskins played as a 6-10 team this year. In your fantasy world or some concocted league, you may imagine what might have happened or how the football gods ought to have rewarded these noble warriors. Enjoy it. This was a 6-10 team and that is what they will forever be in the NFL annals. There will be no asterisk saying they played at a 9-7 level...


Matty:

You said that this season "helped weed out the non-core Skins, and helped shine the light on guys Gibbs knows he can go to war with next year and build the foundation of the team upon." Man, I hope you're right on that.

Obviously, it is Joe Gibbs' decision as to who is a core Skin and who isn't, but I'm curious who you think the core Skins are and why.

You have to know from many of my other postings here that I don't consider Gardner or Taylor to be "core Skins" since I've called them "Meathead" and "Another Meathead". But I am interested in your perceptions of the players on the team.

And don't forget to comment on Ade Jimoh in your response... :)

Draft Order
 

atleast we pick before dallas...

1. San Francisco, 2-14
2. Miami, 4-12
3. Cleveland, 4-12
4. Chicago, 5-11
5. Tampa Bay, 5-11
6. Tennessee, 5-11
7. Oakland, 5-11
8. Arizona, 6-10
9. Washington, 6-10
10. Detroit, 6-10
11. Dallas, 6-10
12. New York Giants, 6-10 (San Diego owns pick)
13. Houston, 7-9
14. Carolina, 7-9
15. Kansas City, 7-9
16. New Orleans, 8-8
17. Cincinnati, 8-8

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]You said that this season "helped weed out the non-core Skins, and helped shine the light on guys Gibbs knows he can go to war with next year and build the foundation of the team upon." Man, I hope you're right on that.

Obviously, it is Joe Gibbs' decision as to who is a core Skin and who isn't, but I'm curious who you think the core Skins are and why.

You have to know from many of my other postings here that I don't consider Gardner or Taylor to be "core Skins" since I've called them "Meathead" and "Another Meathead". But I am interested in your perceptions of the players on the team.

And don't forget to comment on Ade Jimoh in your response... :)[/QUOTE]

To me, the jury is still out on Taylor. Did he do a lot of stupid things this year, on and off the field? Yes. Remind me to tell you about what a grade-A dumbass I was at his age. Hopefully, he will learn that his gifts will be wasted if he continues to be an idiot.

As for Gardner, a nickname like "50-50" is one that is supposed to motivate a player to get better and prove others wrong. I think Rod might have gotten his towels monogrammed with it. His play has not improved one iota since his rookie year. The reports of missing automobiles might explain why.

As for who may be "Core Skins", I think you have to look off the field within the group of talented players on the roster. Is Portis "core"? Maybe - he didn't complain about his playing time, or try to shift blame when he had poor production, and he had one of the best statistical seasons a Skins RB has ever had.

Is Washington "core"? He was the only projected starter who started regularly in the LB corps. Since our defense relies on trust in the abilities of your teammates, Marcus showed faith in the scheme and team, and played his way to Hawaii.

Is Pierce "core"? God, I hope so. He was our defensive MVP. He refused to leave special teams. He fought his way onto the team as an undrafted free agent, and earned his way to a payday.

Is Ramsey "core"? He suffered the indignity of sitting the bench when the guy ahead of him was [U]losing[/U] games. Being on the bench is no slight - there are only 32 starting jobs in the league. When the guy ahead of you is having under 100 yard passing games (3 of them!!!) and you are still holding the clipboard, it has to hurt. No complaints, and improvement from the first snap. His rating for the season was 74.8, but if you factor out the disasterous relief appearance in week 2, that bumps up to a respectable 79.9. I'm happy he's in a Redskins uniform.

How about Jansen? No one would have enjoyed the Bugel experience more than Jon. I'm convinced his pre-season injury was good for two losses to us.

Oh, and Jimoh stays, or I'm leaving. ;)

I say we either trade down or pick the best offensive player available or a pass rushing defensive end.

i do'nt think gardner is a hardcore skin,neither is chad morton.would not surprise me to see them both traded in the off season.thrash,betts,and brown can easily return kicks,and thrash is a great 3rd receiver.i think the kid that was ruled ineligible for usc would look great
in B&G.i also think uva's all american elton brand would be agreat addittion to the hogs.
the only thing gardner showed me this year was that he has hands of shit.

[QUOTE=jamf]atleast we pick before dallas...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but they have [B]TWO[/B] first round draft picks.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Yeah, but they have [B]TWO[/B] first round draft picks.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but Jerry Jones will be picking.. The Cowboys need more help than we do.. They need a QB, WRs, CB, and help along the d-line.. Not a pretty picture in big D. Yet they own us. :frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

Because Jerry Jones really missed the boat with Julius Jones....

Now - Gibbs can't weed like he once can. We have huge contracts and penelties for breaking them. You make your bed and you have to lie in it. THat's how today's NFL works. So he may be stuck with players he doesn't want, just like I'm sure every coach in the league is.

[QUOTE=Daseal]Because Jerry Jones really missed the boat with Julius Jones....
[/QUOTE]
Granted they got that one right, but his draft track record is far from stellar..

[QUOTE=offiss]Great! I think that Giant win last night helped a lot, I can live with the #8 pick we now have some bargaining power, I still say we have to trade down, and get a big time center whether it be by draft, or free agency is imperative to the success of our team next year, we have to AND I mean HAVE TO get someone in there who can man the middle, I would replace Samuel's as well unless he really restructures his contract, I was up in the air about Dockery and tries to keep a close eye on him to evaluate, and I think he's really coming along infact if we get a quality center next to him we could be talking greatness for this kid.[/QUOTE]
I really soured on Dockery when I saw him with his massive hands on hips basically motionless after the fumble during the Vikings game. In contrast Ray Brown aka the Ageless One was hustling diving for the loose ball, which was closer to Dockery, who did not even block anyone on the play. Sorry but the whole play was reminisceint of Jeff George, when he made no effort whatsover to recover a fumble.

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]I really soured on Dockery when I saw him with his massive hands on hips basically motionless after the fumble during the Vikings game. In contrast Ray Brown aka the Ageless One was hustling diving for the loose ball, which was closer to Dockery, who did not even block anyone on the play. Sorry but the whole play was reminisceint of Jeff George, when he made no effort whatsover to recover a fumble.[/QUOTE]


I didn't see that, I saw him a few times getting out a leveling people, it's tough to focus on a lineman during a play because you want to watch the ball I do think he's far better off than George. George was a malcontent, this kid seem's to have a pretty good head on his shoulders I am hoping he's a keeper.

I've seen Dockery make quite a few nice blocks this year, and I've even seen him pulling out and getting around the corner.

To me he's shown enough to bring him back as the starter next year. That being said he needs to make significant strides next year to keep his job beyond that.

Dockery didn't see the ball - once he did he started to run, but it was too late. He was upset about the sack.

well that damn auburn qb looked very good last night,he would look good in the B&G.

On the subject of the draft does anyone know who has Mel Kipper projected for the first round of the '05 draft? Not trying to imply the Kipper is the best at this sort of thing, he just the only person that I am aware of who would have such a list this earlier before even the combines.

Here's a link to Mel's big board but it will be changing quite a bit until all the under classmen declare.


[url]http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=1946818[/url]

[QUOTE=BIGREDSKINFAN63]well that damn auburn qb looked very good last night,he would look good in the B&G.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but Joe Gibbs isn't going to let a rookie quarterback get anywhere near the playing field during the '05 regular season. Hell, for 10 games last year, he didn't let a 3-year veteran play either. Mark this one down, we won't draft a QB until maybe after the 4th round, if that.