Kyle's pass 1st offense's weekly lament
 

I feel like the running game will always be a concern with Kyle as the playcaller.
As much as some of us would like he's not Mike Shanahan, this is not a run first team (as the sports media likes to claim).
We're a passing team.

I hope that Kyle will change but he seems to struggle sticking to the run.
Like many pass 1st coaches they can't stomach runs that don't gain X yards early in the game.

The run game was working early and some of the runs were just a nose hair away from hitting.
But, without more attempts the OL and the backs won't gain the rhythm required to hit the 'big' runs.
Without attempts the run game stays vanilla; gone were the inside trap runs (Helu) that worked well against the Cards.

What's more is that a lot of the success in the passing game comes from our playaction.
(I was surprised we didn't boot more because Ware was crashing hard down the line.)

I hope this changes, as the season progresses but I doubt it.
This team should go as the running games goes but I fear it will go as Rex goes.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

You have to go with what works. Gibbs believed that. The running game was averaging around 2.7 yards a carry for most of the game. Get the O-line to open up the running lanes, and you'll see more running plays called.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Yea, I didn't have much of a problem w/ playcalling last night. There was one series that started in the red zone where we went run, run, pass, but other than that I had no problems.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

We've had better balance this year vs. last year, and coming into this game we were right around the league average for pass to run ratio.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I completely agree with you 30 gut. But the problem is that we are a run first team when we are in the open field and then a pass first team when we are in the red zone or short yardage situations. Someone brought zone blocking and its ineffectiveness in the red zone a week or 2 ago, I said something about it this morning and then I read this 30 mins ago:[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/27/texans-red-zone-woes-not-a-new-problem/"]Texans red zone woes not a new problem | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I am really starting to doubt the effectiveness of a zone blocking system as the only tool in the running game's shed. I just dont think it works in tight spaces like the redzone and short yardage situations when the defense plays a little tighter to the line. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Every team that solely uses zone blocking has these issues, the only ones get away with it in the red zone (green bay & Indy) are the ones with great QBs. I think Rex is a serviceable QB but i dont think he is a great QB. The other thing helping Indy and GB is that the offense is very fast passed, obviously Indy with Manning running an exclusive no huddle offense is the fastest in the game. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]We are constantly going to be forced to abandon the run in the redzone, which happens to be the most dangerous time to throw a pass. [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The redzone passing danger is compounded by the fact that we have a QB with a gun slinger's attitude but with a sling shot's capabilities.[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]I like the zone blocking scheme we have and think its going to make our offense [I]look[/I] the best it has been in years, but I think we are in for a long season and possible years of getting disappointed for failing to take advantage of redzone opportunities. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I think part of the reason why Beck was given the job to lose was primarily because of his mobility, not necessarily that he was deemed a better passer. When the field is truncated and we abandon the run opposing defenses would only be forced to stay close to the line of scrimmage if a mobile passer is in the backfield. Grossman is literally slower than I am and his ball protection is just as bad; when he runs he is a liability. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Unless theres always a rb/fb/te blocking first then serving as a check down option (I think we saw some of this vs Arizona), defenses don’t have to be worried about Grossman taking off and picking up a first down so they can “cheat” in their drop back protections. This was especially true last night when Dallas had all the time in the world to make major substitutions. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I don’t put this on Grossman, and honestly i think he could work out for us, I put this on Kyle. We cant completely rely on a zone blocking system unless we have a mobile passer and/or a elite passer in my opinion. I think we have the best oline weve had in years so why not challenge them with a couple man blocking schemes? Also a faster offensive tempo could help immensely. Screen passes are probably an immediate fix. Unfortunately Chris Cooley taking handoffs probably isn’t the answear……[/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Kyle's pass 1st offense's weekly lament
 

[quote=30gut;841586]I feel like the running game will always be a concern with Kyle as the playcaller.
As much as some of us would like he's not Mike Shanahan, this is not a run first team (as the sports media likes to claim).
We're a passing team.

I hope that Kyle will change but he seems to struggle sticking to the run.
Like many pass 1st coaches they can't stomach runs that don't gain X yards early in the game.

[B]The run game was working early a[/B]nd some of the runs were just a nose hair away from hitting.
But, without more attempts the OL and the backs won't gain the rhythm required to hit the 'big' runs.
Without attempts the run game stays vanilla; gone were the inside trap runs (Helu) that worked well against the Cards.

What's more is that a lot of the success in the passing game comes from our playaction.
(I was surprised we didn't boot more because Ware was crashing hard down the line.)

I hope this changes, as the season progresses but I doubt it.
This team should go as the running games goes but I fear it will go as Rex goes.[/quote]

Really. We ran the ball I think 10 times in the first half and had only 25 yards so i'd say the running game was not working.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

We are not pass first. What we are is a team COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS TO SITUATIONAL FOOTBALL.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Anybody guess how many times and the YPC we had in the Giants [I][B][U]WIN[/U][/B][/I]?

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=30gut;841626]Anybody guess how many times and the YPC we had in the Giants [I][B][U]WIN[/U][/B][/I]?[/quote]

26 runs, 34 passes. Better than our 36% run/64% pass ratio last year.

Re: Kyle's pass 1st offense's weekly lament
 

[quote=firstdown;841622]Really. We ran the ball I think 10 times in the first half and had only 25 yards so i'd say the running game was not working.[/quote]

We averaged only three yards per carry, a paltry sum for an OC like KS who loves to throw the ball off play action. Unless he's willing to show a total commitment to the running game, play action is of limited value because there's no running game of substance for the defense to concern itself with.

Our oline is not strong enough to drop back forty times a game in pass protection, the running game has to become a staple for this offense to run smoothly and effectively.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=Beemnseven;841587]You have to go with what works. Gibbs believed that. The running game was averaging around 2.7 yards a carry for most of the game. Get the O-line to open up the running lanes, and you'll see more running plays called.[/quote]It depends on how you define 'not working'.
The running game is about more then just YPC, especially for a play-action team.
Against the Giants we we're running the ball for a lower YPC then yesterday yet we ran the ball 6 more times.
Could those 6 carries made the difference in the last couple of drives? Who knows?

I think the OL was close to opening some big running lanes and the backs were close to making some big gains.
But you have to keep running to get the chance to make those big gains.
Also, the running game lacked variety, e.g. if you look at the Cards game we ran some inside trap with Lichtensteiger pulling and Helu made some big runs down the stretch.
But, this game there IIRC very few/no inside trap runs.

My opinion is that everyhthing about an effective running game requires [I][B]attempts[/B][/I] and I pass 1st offense won't be able to have more success unless they run the ball more.

The irony for me is that the person that is most hurt by the pass 1st nature of this offense is Rex.

Re: Kyle's pass 1st offense's weekly lament
 

[quote=firstdown;841622]Really. We ran the ball I think 10 times in the first half and had only 25 yards so i'd say the running game was not working.[/quote]
This was the passing game in the 1st half:
R.Grossman 19 attempts/11 comp 127 yards 1/6 sack 1 INT 56.2 RTG

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

One our TD drive Hightower had 5 carries for 20 yards...and then he didn't get another carry. That ain't right

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

IDK what kyle is thinking sometimes, 1st drive was fantastic then the TD drive was great other than that BLEH

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

While I see a conscious effort to run the ball more now this year, I too will stick a sword in Kyle and tell him that you either start Riggo-drilling or busting out the quick old-fashion WCO routes if you want to milk the ****ing clock.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

I think its a big mistake to let Torain sit. I predict when we do finally see him, if we do, we will wish we had been using him more. I hope the only reason they are holding him back is to be sure he's 100%

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Kyle simply isn't committed to the running game. I don't have a problem with it if we had better wr's, QB and O-line. But we don't have the personel to be a pass first team. He's gotta realize his personel better and call more run plays.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Well when your team is a run first or has a really good run game what do you think the opponent is going to try and take away? The run. If we were a really good passing team what would opponents try to take away? The pass. MS has always been a run first HC. KS I believe was a pass first OC in Houston and now here. As others have said the team has gotten better with it's ratio of run/pass but as you see Dallas chose to try and stop the run and force Grossman to pass with the hopes of taking the ball away. They did a good job of game planning. The Skins should have made better adjustments seeing the Cowboys stacking the line. Perhaps more screens which got the ball beyond the DL and seemed to work when used late in the game. I'll say again I don't recall seeing any slantsto anyone Moss, Cooley, Davis, or Hightower. The plan was either run or pick a 15 to 20 yrs pass play. What happened to dink and dunk it that's all they will give you?

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=SBXVII;841660]They did a good job of game planning. The Skins should have made better adjustments seeing the Cowboys stacking the line.[/quote]Even if the Cowboys were selling out to stop the run (i don't think they were) it doesn't mean you stop running.

Maybe I'll download the game and post some screen caps but some of those runs were very close to breaking for good yardage.
You can also mix up the running game to keep them off balance.
There are more runs then the outside zone stretch, we used the inside trap against the Cards and that was effective.

You cannot allow the defense to dictate what they want you to do; because it will force the offense to play left-handed.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Dallas did a great job stopping the run. I just wish we had not completely abandoned it, but he did try to adapt on the fly.

I just hope we reset and go back to trying the run first in the next game. We have a potent running game which can really make Rex's job easier. When he has to carry the load, that's when "Bad Rex" comes out...like that fumble at the end.

The running game looked great in Weeks 1 and 2, and Rex made fewer errors. As long as he's under center, we need to try to be a run-first team to set up the play-action for Rex, which he excels at.

Have to credit the Dallas D on stopping the run. That was the key to the win for them. (along with Rocca's blunder on the FG)

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=skinsfan69;841657][B]Kyle simply isn't committed to the running game. [/B]I don't have a problem with it if we had better wr's, QB and O-line. But we don't have the personel to be a pass first team. He's gotta realize his personel better and call more run plays.[/quote]

??

Hightower is 4th in the NFL in rushing attempts.

As a team we're 8th overall.

I think that means we're trying to run the ball.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

We're definitely trying. We tried to run against Dallas.

As long as we come out and see if the running game can get going against that game's opponent, we'll have success. Some weeks, it just doesn't work.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=Monkeydad;841940]We're definitely trying. We tried to run against Dallas.

As long as we come out and see if the running game can get going against that game's opponent, we'll have success. Some weeks, it just doesn't work.[/quote]
3rd QTR:Washington Redskins at 9:31

[COLOR="Olive"]1-10-WAS 24 (9:31) T.Hightower left guard to WAS 26 for 2 yards (D.Ware, S.Lee).[/COLOR]

2-8-WAS 26 (8:56) R.Grossman pass short middle to S.Moss ran ob at DAL 38 for 36 yards. Pass complete on a "skinny post." P10 [Play action]

1-10-DAL 38 (8:19) R.Grossman pass short left to C.Cooley to DAL 26 for 12 yards (M.Jenkins). Pass complete in the flat. P11 [From I-Form run set]

[COLOR="olive"]1-10-DAL 26 (7:43) T.Hightower left end to DAL 25 for 1 yard (S.Lee, J.Ratliff).[/COLOR]

[COLOR="olive"]2-9-DAL 25 (7:00) T.Hightower right end to DAL 19 for 6 yards (A.Elam).[/COLOR]

3-3-DAL 19 P12 (6:15) (Shotgun) R.Grossman pass short middle to T.Hightower to DAL 12 for 7 yards (S.Lee). Pass complete on a
crossing pattern out of the backfield.

[COLOR="olive"]1-10-DAL 12 (5:34) T.Hightower right tackle to DAL 6 for 6 yards (G.Sensabaugh).[/COLOR]

[COLOR="olive"]2-4-DAL 6 (4:52) T.Hightower left end to DAL 1 for 5 yards (A.Spencer). R13[/COLOR]

[COLOR="olive"]1-1-DAL 1 (4:05) R.Grossman pass short left to T.Hightower for 1 yard,[/COLOR]
[COLOR="YellowGreen"][SIZE="3"]TOUCHDOWN.[/SIZE][/COLOR] [B][I]Pass complete off play action[/I][/B]. P14

G.Gano extra point is GOOD, Center-N.Sundberg, Holder-S.Rocca.
WAS 16 DAL 9, 9 plays, 76 yards, 5:31 drive, 11:00 elapsed

[B][I][U][COLOR="darkred"]Next drive:[/COLOR][/U][/I][/B]

Washington Redskins at 0:19, (1st play from scrimmage 0:14)
1-10-WAS 25 (:14) R.Grossman pass incomplete short right. Pass was thrown out of bounds right sideline.

2-10-WAS 25 (:06) R.Grossman pass incomplete deep left to S.Moss (M.Jenkins). Pass knocked away at the Dallas 37.

3-10-WAS 25 (15:00) (Shotgun) R.Grossman pass incomplete short right to T.Austin (T.Newman). Pass incomplete sideline at the
Washington 35.

4-10-WAS 25 (14:46) (Punt formation) S.Rocca punts 37 yards to DAL 38, Center-N.Sundberg, fair catch by D.Harris

[B][U][I][COLOR="DarkRed"]Following Drive:[/COLOR][/I][/U][/B]

Washington Redskins at 13:03
1-10-WAS 10 (13:03) R.Grossman pass short left to J.Gaffney to WAS 25 for 15 yards (G.Sensabaugh). P15

1-10-WAS 25 (12:28) R.Helu left tackle to WAS 28 for 3 yards (S.Lissemore; K.Coleman).

2-7-WAS 28 (11:47) R.Grossman pass incomplete short right to C.Cooley. Pass incomplete right sideline.

3-7-WAS 28 (11:42) (Shotgun) R.Grossman pass incomplete deep left to T.Austin.

(11:35) (Punt formation) S.Rocca punts 54 yards to DAL 18, Center-N.Sundberg. D.Harris to DAL 19 for 1 yard
(B.Westbrook).

More unproductive passing follows

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Did the Redskins abandon the run?

By Rich Tandler

As the second half unfolded yesterday, there was a lot of chatter about the Redskins abandoning the run, especially after they took a seven-point lead in the third quarter.

In what could become a weekly feature as second-half running was a topic of discussion after last week’s win over Arizona as well, let’s take a look at the Redskins run-pass play selections and see if complaints that they failed to run the ball enough hold water. (Statistics include sacks)

For the game:

62 plays

22 runs for 65 yards, 3.0 yards per carry

40 passes for 233 yards, 5.8 yards per pass play

That is a ratio of 65 percent passes and 35 percent runs, which is about the ratio they ran for the 2010 season. Earlier this week, Kyle Shanahan said that one of the things they wanted to do this year was to run the ball more. For this game, they did not and considering that they trailed in the game for a total of about four minutes that seems to be a bit pass happy.

It also should be noted that they came in averaging 71 plays per game so they ran about nine fewer plays. They also came into the game leading the NFL in time of possession but they held the ball for just 28:24 to 31:36 for Dallas.

First half

35 plays

15 runs for 41 yards, 2.7 yards per carry

20 passes for 121 yards, 6.0 yards per pass play

This is closer to the run-pass ratio that the most of the NFL runs. They had a time of possession advantage of just over 16 minutes to just under 14 minutes for Dallas.

Second half

27 plays

7 runs for 24 yards, 3.4 yards per carry

20 passes for 112 yards, 5.6 yards per pass play

It gets really out of whack here. Dallas had a substantial advantage in time of possession as they held the ball for about 18 minutes to around 12 for the Redskins. Let’s look at the individual drives to see where it got that way.

Redskins get the ball at own 24 9:31 left in third quarter game tied at 9

5 runs (all Hightower) for 20 yards, 4.0 yards per carry

4 passes (all complete) for 56 yards, 14 yards per pass play

This is the touchdown drive, a nice mix of Rex Grossman passes and Tim Hightower runs. Kevin Barnes’ interception gave them possession and it looked like they were going to take control of the game after the scored on Grossman’s one-yard pass to Hightower to take a 16-9 lead with 4:00 left in the third.

Redskins get ball at own 25 0:14 left in third quarter leading 16-12

3 passes, all incomplete

This is where the chatter about too many passes started. After a solid, balanced drive, the Redskins burn all of 30 seconds off of the clock and punt it away to the Cowboys.

Redskins get ball at own 10 13:03 left still leading 16-12

1 run (Helu) 3 yards

3 passes (1 complete) 15 yards

The Redskins do get out of a hole at their own 10 with a 15-yard first-down pass from Grossman to Jabar Gaffney. But from the 25 it’s Helu for three yards (where’s Hightower?) and then two incompletions, one shallow and one deep.

Redskins get ball at own 17 6:58 left leading 16-15

1 run (Helu) for 1 yard

5 passes (3 complete, 1 sack) for 24 yards plus a 15-yard penalty

To be fair here, the passes were working initially. A screen to Helu picked up 14 yards and then Grossman went to Chris Cooley for four yards and then to Moss for six. A 15-yard personal foul was tacked on to Moss’ catch and the Redskins were at the Dallas 44 nearing field goal range. It falls apart when Helu runs for one and then Grossman is sacked for a loss of eight. The third and 17 pass has no chance and the Redskins punt.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

It's not good enough to just run the ball to eat up clock, you have to run it successfully. If you run the ball three straight times, you've eaten two minutes, which is really not a lot. If you throw the ball 7 straight plays getting two first downs before a punt, you're going to eat up more than two minutes even with 2-3 incompletions mixed in. You have to move the chains to eat time.

With that said, if Hightower can't be trusted to grind out a win in the fourth quarter, Helu needs to be the guy. I realize Hightower is a much better pass protected at this point in his career, but if we have to throw while ahead because that's all our personnel will allow for, we need to change the personnel so that we can run.

Even Torain, for all his faults with his vision, would have provided the confidence necessary to run to win at the end of a close ballgame. Though I think Helu gives us the much better chance.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Personally I would have run the hell out of Helu in the second half. The defense gets a little tired and with his speed and elusiveness he can take it to the house at any given time. And let's remember....this guy had zero fumbles in college.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=GTripp0012;842081]It's not good enough to just run the ball to eat up clock, you have to run it successfully. If you run the ball three straight times, you've eaten two minutes, which is really not a lot. If you throw the ball 7 straight plays getting two first downs before a punt, you're going to eat up more than two minutes even with 2-3 incompletions mixed in. You have to move the chains to eat time.[/quote]I'm not sure what point you are arguing here but I'm not talking about running out the clock.

[quote]With that said, if Hightower can't be trusted to grind out a win in the fourth quarter, Helu needs to be the guy. I realize Hightower is a much better pass protected at this point in his career, but if we have to throw while ahead because that's all our personnel will allow for, we need to change the personnel so that we can run.[/quote]Not trusting HT was a mistake imo.
You dance with the girl who brung you and Hightower + playaction lead to the only TD drive.

I think our personnel, specifically Rex, dictates that we should be a run/play action team.
Not a pass first team.

The scheme is solid and we have 2 backs that fit our run scheme very well, both have the ability to be effective frontside runner and both have the ability to cutback.

[quote]Even Torain, for all his faults with his vision, would have provided the confidence necessary to run to win at the end of a close ballgame. Though I think Helu gives us the much better chance.[/quote]Why would a lesser back provide the confidence to run but not the back that we traded for who ended up winning the starting job? Why would the 3rd string back provide the confidence to close out a game and not the 1st string RB who legs were the cog behind the only TD scoring drive?

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Two years ago, HT caught 63 balls (3rd on the team) in an offense with Fitz, Boldin, and Breaston.

Why we aren't throwing more screens to this guy I do not understand. Call it a pass all you like, but for all intents and purposes it's a running play.

Hightower has a terrible 3.5ypc right now but an 8.2y/rec average and is leading all NFC East RB's in receiving first downs.

Meanwhile Helu has a gaudy 5.7ypc.

I'd probably rather see Helu running inside, but both of these guys could be catching more balls out of the backfield. Did you see Hightower hurdle that tackler at the end of the game? That's what I'm talking about.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

It seemed to me that the running backs slipped every time they tried to cut. They were so frustrated in the first half because they kept on falling before being tackled. Why couldn't they have changed cleats?
It might have changed their game plan.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=mike340;842126]It seemed to me that the running backs slipped every time they tried to cut. They were so frustrated in the first half because they kept on falling before being tackled. Why couldn't they have changed cleats?
It might have changed their game plan.[/quote]


Yeah, this is a really good point. Steinberg made a joke about it, but people were slipping all over the luxurious new field of the JerrahDome. And by people, I mean "mostly us". Does seem strange that we didn't make any equipment adjustments.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=44ever;841655][B]I think its a big mistake to let Torain sit[/B]. [B]I predict when we do finally see him, if we do, we will wish we had been using him more.[/B] I hope the only reason they are holding him back is to be sure he's 100%[/quote]
[SIZE="6"]I TOLD YOU SO...[/SIZE]

Torain rushed for 135 yards on 19 carries and scored on a 20-yard run in the second quarter to help the Redskins to a 17-10 win. Washington improved to 3-1 heading into the bye week. Torain, who had seen little action over the first three games, played a key role.
[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/2/ryan-torain-makes-most-of-opportunity-as-redskins-/]Ryan Torain makes most of opportunity as Redskins' feature back - Washington Times[/url]

[IMG]http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2011/10/02/20111002-191958-pic-603978494_s640x455.jpg?4d0442d575a8d34cdb25ca075c1c6816646a2d29[/IMG]

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

want a cookie? and who'd you tell? cause it wasn't me. I knew he could play.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=That Guy;844112]want a cookie? and who'd you tell? cause it wasn't me. I knew he could play.[/quote]

No, I made sure only to tell only the people that "didn't know". Keep your cookie for knowing it yourself.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

The NFL is now a passing league. Teams used to run to set up the pass, now they pass to set up a run. Even the salary structure shows the NFL is a pass first league as the highest paid positions have to do with passing or stopping the pass. Only kickers & punters are paid less than RBs.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Over the past few weeks, I think the importance of the running game for this offense has made itself obvious.
Put the game in Rex's hands early 2 picks, but the defense stood up.
Then the combo of Helu+Royster drives the victory.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=44ever;843923][SIZE="6"]I TOLD YOU SO...[/SIZE]

Torain rushed for 135 yards on 19 carries and scored on a 20-yard run in the second quarter to help the Redskins to a 17-10 win. Washington improved to 3-1 heading into the bye week. Torain, who had seen little action over the first three games, played a key role.
[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/2/ryan-torain-makes-most-of-opportunity-as-redskins-/]Ryan Torain makes most of opportunity as Redskins' feature back - Washington Times[/url]

[IMG]http://media.washtimes.com/media/image/2011/10/02/20111002-191958-pic-603978494_s640x455.jpg?4d0442d575a8d34cdb25ca075c1c6816646a2d29[/IMG][/quote]


You aren't barking so loud now are you? Torain is garbage.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

[quote=NC_Skins;869393]You aren't barking so loud now are you? Torain is garbage.[/quote]

And folks thought that we didn't need to draft Royster or Helu because the barely useful Keiland Williams and the horrid-against-quality-competition Torain were satisfactory. :laughing2

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

I like Torain for what he is, an avg. nfl backup that can run hard & break tackles in the secondary. Never thought he found holes well, as GTripp always has said, he lost yards on a lot of runs due to poor reads. I could easily see he, Royster & Hightower not making it next year due to health & draft picks. At least RB is not one of our major personel concerns this offseason.

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

Run first, pass first, who cares? If we have personnel that suports a passing game, then we should emphasize that. A pass first offense hasn't hurt New Orleans and Green Bay much, has it?

Re: A pass 1st offense weekly lament
 

The key with those two franchises is 2 franchise gold standard QBs.