A pass 1st offense weekly lament

[30gut]

I feel like the running game will always be a concern with Kyle as the playcaller.
As much as some of us would like he's not Mike Shanahan, this is not a run first team (as the sports media likes to claim).
We're a passing team.

I hope that Kyle will change but he seems to struggle sticking to the run.
Like many pass 1st coaches they can't stomach runs that don't gain X yards early in the game.

The run game was working early and some of the runs were just a nose hair away from hitting.
But, without more attempts the OL and the backs won't gain the rhythm required to hit the 'big' runs.
Without attempts the run game stays vanilla; gone were the inside trap runs (Helu) that worked well against the Cards.

What's more is that a lot of the success in the passing game comes from our playaction.
(I was surprised we didn't boot more because Ware was crashing hard down the line.)

I hope this changes, as the season progresses but I doubt it.
This team should go as the running games goes but I fear it will go as Rex goes.

[Beemnseven]

You have to go with what works. Gibbs believed that. The running game was averaging around 2.7 yards a carry for most of the game. Get the O-line to open up the running lanes, and you'll see more running plays called.

[redsk1]

Yea, I didn't have much of a problem w/ playcalling last night. There was one series that started in the red zone where we went run, run, pass, but other than that I had no problems.

[MTK]

We've had better balance this year vs. last year, and coming into this game we were right around the league average for pass to run ratio.

[mlmpetert]

I completely agree with you 30 gut. But the problem is that we are a run first team when we are in the open field and then a pass first team when we are in the red zone or short yardage situations. Someone brought zone blocking and its ineffectiveness in the red zone a week or 2 ago, I said something about it this morning and then I read this 30 mins ago:

Texans red zone woes not a new problem | ProFootballTalk

I am really starting to doubt the effectiveness of a zone blocking system as the only tool in the running game's shed. I just dont think it works in tight spaces like the redzone and short yardage situations when the defense plays a little tighter to the line.

Every team that solely uses zone blocking has these issues, the only ones get away with it in the red zone (green bay & Indy) are the ones with great QBs. I think Rex is a serviceable QB but i dont think he is a great QB. The other thing helping Indy and GB is that the offense is very fast passed, obviously Indy with Manning running an exclusive no huddle offense is the fastest in the game.

We are constantly going to be forced to abandon the run in the redzone, which happens to be the most dangerous time to throw a pass. The redzone passing danger is compounded by the fact that we have a QB with a gun slinger's attitude but with a sling shot's capabilities.

I like the zone blocking scheme we have and think its going to make our offense look the best it has been in years, but I think we are in for a long season and possible years of getting disappointed for failing to take advantage of redzone opportunities.

I think part of the reason why Beck was given the job to lose was primarily because of his mobility, not necessarily that he was deemed a better passer. When the field is truncated and we abandon the run opposing defenses would only be forced to stay close to the line of scrimmage if a mobile passer is in the backfield. Grossman is literally slower than I am and his ball protection is just as bad; when he runs he is a liability.

Unless theres always a rb/fb/te blocking first then serving as a check down option (I think we saw some of this vs Arizona), defenses don’t have to be worried about Grossman taking off and picking up a first down so they can “cheat” in their drop back protections. This was especially true last night when Dallas had all the time in the world to make major substitutions.

I don’t put this on Grossman, and honestly i think he could work out for us, I put this on Kyle. We cant completely rely on a zone blocking system unless we have a mobile passer and/or a elite passer in my opinion. I think we have the best oline weve had in years so why not challenge them with a couple man blocking schemes? Also a faster offensive tempo could help immensely. Screen passes are probably an immediate fix. Unfortunately Chris Cooley taking handoffs probably isn’t the answear……

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I feel like the running game will always be a concern with Kyle as the playcaller.
As much as some of us would like he's not Mike Shanahan, this is not a run first team (as the sports media likes to claim).
We're a passing team.

I hope that Kyle will change but he seems to struggle sticking to the run.
Like many pass 1st coaches they can't stomach runs that don't gain X yards early in the game.

The run game was working early and some of the runs were just a nose hair away from hitting.
But, without more attempts the OL and the backs won't gain the rhythm required to hit the 'big' runs.
Without attempts the run game stays vanilla; gone were the inside trap runs (Helu) that worked well against the Cards.

What's more is that a lot of the success in the passing game comes from our playaction.
(I was surprised we didn't boot more because Ware was crashing hard down the line.)

I hope this changes, as the season progresses but I doubt it.
This team should go as the running games goes but I fear it will go as Rex goes.

Really. We ran the ball I think 10 times in the first half and had only 25 yards so i'd say the running game was not working.

[SirClintonPortis]

We are not pass first. What we are is a team COMPLETELY OBLIVIOUS TO SITUATIONAL FOOTBALL.

[30gut]

Anybody guess how many times and the YPC we had in the Giants WIN?

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Anybody guess how many times and the YPC we had in the Giants WIN?

26 runs, 34 passes. Better than our 36% run/64% pass ratio last year.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Really. We ran the ball I think 10 times in the first half and had only 25 yards so i'd say the running game was not working.

We averaged only three yards per carry, a paltry sum for an OC like KS who loves to throw the ball off play action. Unless he's willing to show a total commitment to the running game, play action is of limited value because there's no running game of substance for the defense to concern itself with.

Our oline is not strong enough to drop back forty times a game in pass protection, the running game has to become a staple for this offense to run smoothly and effectively.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

You have to go with what works. Gibbs believed that. The running game was averaging around 2.7 yards a carry for most of the game. Get the O-line to open up the running lanes, and you'll see more running plays called.

It depends on how you define 'not working'.
The running game is about more then just YPC, especially for a play-action team.
Against the Giants we we're running the ball for a lower YPC then yesterday yet we ran the ball 6 more times.
Could those 6 carries made the difference in the last couple of drives? Who knows?

I think the OL was close to opening some big running lanes and the backs were close to making some big gains.
But you have to keep running to get the chance to make those big gains.
Also, the running game lacked variety, e.g. if you look at the Cards game we ran some inside trap with Lichtensteiger pulling and Helu made some big runs down the stretch.
But, this game there IIRC very few/no inside trap runs.

My opinion is that everyhthing about an effective running game requires attempts and I pass 1st offense won't be able to have more success unless they run the ball more.

The irony for me is that the person that is most hurt by the pass 1st nature of this offense is Rex.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Really. We ran the ball I think 10 times in the first half and had only 25 yards so i'd say the running game was not working.

This was the passing game in the 1st half:
R.Grossman 19 attempts/11 comp 127 yards 1/6 sack 1 INT 56.2 RTG

[SmootSmack]

One our TD drive Hightower had 5 carries for 20 yards...and then he didn't get another carry. That ain't right

[skinsfaninok]

IDK what kyle is thinking sometimes, 1st drive was fantastic then the TD drive was great other than that BLEH

[SirClintonPortis]

While I see a conscious effort to run the ball more now this year, I too will stick a sword in Kyle and tell him that you either start Riggo-drilling or busting out the quick old-fashion WCO routes if you want to milk the ****ing clock.