Final Say on Personnel
 

This has been an oft-discussed topic in our threads so I thought I'd give it its proper due and give it its own thread. Who should have the final say on personnel for the Redskins?

Dan Snyder-Ultimately he's the one who signs the checks

Joe Gibbs-He is the president of the team, it's his gameplan that will be used on game days so why not the players he feels are best for that

Vinny Cerrato-He is the player personnel director and he has experience as a talent evaluator

Someone else-This is where it gets tricky. People have no problem saying "we need a general manager" but what does that mean? Many teams don't have "general managers" per se. What would the GM's role here be exactly and how would that affect the chain of command?

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

Snyder owns the team and likes to have his little tiny hands in everything so he gets my vote.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

gibbs since he has the rings, and hes the one using the players in his system. i also think williams should have the final say on defensive players, or at least a large say since he runs the defense totally

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

Snyder signs the checks, but from previous flops of free agent signings and players he's practically chased out of town, he don't know squaduch about finding the less flashy signings and having them pay off. Until last year none of our free agent signings, especially on the defensive side, have really paid off but I'd give as much, if not more, credit to Williams than Gibbs for that. And while I trust most of how Gibbs will handle contracts and finding good solid players to fit in the system, he's shown that he too can get too enamored with a player, ie brunnel, and shouldn't be worrying as much about personel and contracts like he is now. I feel a GM would not only help in the addition of solid talents with the chance of them becoming good to great players, but it would also allow Gibbs to focus primarily on adjusting his offense to now a days game and lift some of the stress off of his shoulders. and we all know how important Gibbs staying healthy is to the future of the team.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

Coaches make bad GMs. Let's get someone new in here to deal with personel.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

i would love to say gibbs hands down. But snyder signs the checks.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

We badly need a GM.

Gibbs is a great coach, but the coach/president combination just doesnt work. Let Gibbs concentrate on the coaching.

What about trading Gardner to the Texans for Casserly and getting him back just like the glory days!

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

Just face the facts Dan is the owner and that will not change. He will always have the final decesion as he is head of the ship.

LDS Baby!
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]Just face the facts Dan is the owner and that will not change. He will always have the final decesion as he is head of the ship.[/QUOTE]


LDS Baby! No Doubt! He listens to HOF Coach Gibbs and cousinvinnie, but ultimately, it's his decision to make!

That is why there is a Redskins 1, and why the Redskins are truly the richest, most expensive NFL Franchise, and why LDS got into ownership in the first place! He just loves his Football Fantasies! How many of the rest of us even have a Redskins beltbuckle, anyway?

Besides, as a Cancer survivor, you have to give him his props! Never underestimate LDS, either! After all he is closer to the ground than you are since he is barely 5 ft. tall!

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

We need a GM. Let the coach Coach. Get snyder away from football decisions.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

Speaking purely pragmatically this Snyder's team and if he wants to sign a bunch of clowns he can and should. From a football point of view he needs to take a step back and remove himself from the situation some more. From what I have read he has passed the phase where he gives input and tries to sign big names and ahs moved on to letting Vinny be his eyes and ears and allows Vinny to enlighten him. Pretty much he reflects what Vinny thinks now. He trusts Cerrato's opinions and finally realizes he doesn't know what he is doing but he still is involved because he just mimics what Vinny thinks. I am hoping Gibbs' aura reigns that in a bit. It look slike it alreadt has this offseason a little.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

The Gibbs-Snyder-Cerrato trifecta worked pretty well last year (bar the one obvious mess-up in Brunell), we brought in Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Clinton Portis, Cornelius Griffin, Walt Harris, we drafted Sean taylor, etc among other deals so all in all we did very well in personnel decisions.
I have faith that the same 3 will again produce the goods in the upcoming draft and whatever remaining FA moves we may do.
The Coles Saga was obviously not handled as well as it could have been, but you live and learn - in my opinion we would have been better off fascilitating Coles release (along with his forfeiting the $5M bonus) and using the cap room to sign a replacement via FA than the way that it did occour.
But whats done is done, plus we got Santana Moss out of it so it isn't all bad!!!

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

I put someone else, but it has more to do with the structure of the decision mnaking process than the principals involved. I think Snyder can be the final arbiter, but not if he's involved in the early decision making.

If Gibbs decided he wants a player but Cerrato doesn't think he fits the financial picture (or vice versa), they should go to Snyder and each state their case. The check-signer then makes the call. My fear is that it works the other way around - where Snyder gets hopped up about a player/name, and runs to Gibbs and Cerrato and says "Make this work."

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

[QUOTE=SantanaMan]The Gibbs-Snyder-Cerrato trifecta worked pretty well last year (bar the one obvious mess-up in Brunell), we brought in Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Clinton Portis, Cornelius Griffin, Walt Harris, we drafted Sean taylor, etc among other deals so all in all we did very well in personnel decisions.
I have faith that the same 3 will again produce the goods in the upcoming draft and whatever remaining FA moves we may do.
The Coles Saga was obviously not handled as well as it could have been, but you live and learn - in my opinion we would have been better off fascilitating Coles release (along with his forfeiting the $5M bonus) and using the cap room to sign a replacement via FA than the way that it did occour.
But whats done is done, plus we got Santana Moss out of it so it isn't all bad!!![/QUOTE]

I agree, personnel decisions were pretty damn good last year.

As for this offseason, I'll reserve my final judgement until next year at this time.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

I want Casserly back. Cant Danny boy bribe him away from Texas?

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

I don't think they should change a thing with their front-office structure. here are the players this front office group "hit" on:

Marcus Washington
Cornelius Griffin
Shawn Springs
Clinton Portis
Walt Harris
Sean Taylor
Chris Cooley
Joe Salavae'a
Ron Warner
Garnell Wilds
Antonio Brown (I'd call him a hit at his salary level, just based on his little return duty last season)

Players they wiffed on:
Mark Brunell (bad cap consequences, though he restructured)
Mike Barrow (moderate cap consequences, though he restructured and could redeem himself)
Corey Raymer (small cap consequences)
Ralph Brown (no cap consequences)
Walter Rasby (no cap consequences)
Vaughn Parker (no cap consequences)

This front office group has added to our core, and most of the mistakes they've made have had minimal salary cap impact. The Coles situation is up for debate, but I don't think it's fair to call for a GM over that issue until you see the results on the field in 2005.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

Unlike a lot of people, I actually like the structure they have now. Yes, Snyder is involved, but I get the distinct impression that his part in making football decisions is diminished now with Gibbs having more pull, and with Williams having a say on the defensive side of things. When it comes to financial matters and contracts, that's where he comes in. Vinny is a glorified scout, and don't forget about the cap expert who's name I can't recall (Scott something???). I'm sure he is involved in the decision-making to some extent.

Is it the right way??? Who knows....But there are certainly teams out there with a traditional GM set-up that aren't doing any better!

If they were to get a GM, who would it be? Someone older that has GM experience (and like some players, may just be looking for a "Redskins payday"), or finding an up-and-comer from another team that may be more of a risk? Either way, people would probably criticize them just as much....

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how they do it, as long as they put more W's on the board. Until that happens, everyone will criticize.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

To me, Snyder and Cerrato are the same. They think alike when it comes to bringing in new talent. That's why I say bring in someone new. No need for having two boneheads in the front office. Snyder has the power. He doesn't need a yesman. Heck. I'm available. :oink:

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

From what I heard from Gibb's today during his radio interview on sportstalk, there wont be anyone new for quite some time. Gibb's likes his structure now. He emphasized that he was implementing the same structure that was in place previously when he had GM's. He was very adamant on that point twice.

But I am available too. Maybe we can consult with Cerrato.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

a quality GM, take out Cerrato and it would be a vote among the staff and owner. with the gm pulling the trigger.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]I don't think they should change a thing with their front-office structure. here are the players this front office group "hit" on:

Marcus Washington
Cornelius Griffin
Shawn Springs
Clinton Portis
Walt Harris
Sean Taylor
Chris Cooley
Joe Salavae'a
Ron Warner
Garnell Wilds
Antonio Brown (I'd call him a hit at his salary level, just based on his little return duty last season)

Players they wiffed on:
Mark Brunell (bad cap consequences, though he restructured)
Mike Barrow (moderate cap consequences, though he restructured and could redeem himself)
Corey Raymer (small cap consequences)
Ralph Brown (no cap consequences)
Walter Rasby (no cap consequences)
Vaughn Parker (no cap consequences)

This front office group has added to our core, and most of the mistakes they've made have had minimal salary cap impact. The Coles situation is up for debate, but I don't think it's fair to call for a GM over that issue until you see the results on the field in 2005.






i totaly agree with you. if it aint broke,don't fix it. when the dan first came to the skins he brought in the players he wanted, when shottenheimer was here the dan kinda had his hands tied cause marty held the power, when spurrier was here the dan was back to his old ways but tried to bring guys in that "fit" into steve's offense, with gibbs here it seems like the dan is , for the most part, just signing the players that gibbs and williams tells him too. last year was great. the only real bust was brunnell. hopefully next season will show the same great results.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

I think Snyder has always signed players that the coaches wanted, besides his rookie season as an owner. He's learned since then and we've made pretty good offseason moves, this year aside.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

Someone new, get a GM

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I think the coaching staff and GM should work together....Snyder had too much imput in previous years......for example, DEION SANDERS to name one :rolleyes: former stars past their prime. I bet if Gibbs wasn't here Snyder would've signed Randy Moss....sounds like a Snyder move. I like the way Snyder is stepping back, and letting his football staff run the show.

Re: Final Say on Personnel
 

Daseal, you don't think that we've made pretty good offseason moves this year?