NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

With an estimated 2000 days remaining until preseason starts, I'll lead off with this junk:

[url=http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18645192/tony-dungy-says-indianapolis-colts-stole-signals-cheat]Tony Dungy says Indianapolis Colts stole signals but didn't cheat[/url]

As much as I dislike Dungy he's right. Every team looks for every competitive advantage they can. It's why I don't put as much stock into Spygate/etc. We'd be silly to think the Redskins haven't tried to skirt the rules at some point in history. The difference is this kind of stuff usually stays in house, and the public only gets outraged when it leaks.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

I got better junk than that.

[url=http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/61652/Redskins-hire-Torrian-Gray-from-U-of-Florida-as-DBs-coach/Default.aspx]Redskins hire Torrian Gray from U of Florida as DBs coach[/url]

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=mooby;1164820]With an estimated 2000 days remaining until preseason starts, I'll lead off with this junk:

[url=http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18645192/tony-dungy-says-indianapolis-colts-stole-signals-cheat]Tony Dungy says Indianapolis Colts stole signals but didn't cheat[/url]

As much as I dislike Dungy he's right. Every team looks for every competitive advantage they can. It's why I don't put as much stock into Spygate/etc. We'd be silly to think the Redskins haven't tried to skirt the rules at some point in history. The difference is this kind of stuff usually stays in house, and the public only gets outraged when it leaks.[/quote]

disagree . . . cheating is cheating . . . tis BS

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1164832]disagree . . . cheating is cheating . . . tis BS[/quote]

I know my opinion isn't the popular one, and I agree you should always respect the rules of the game. But if there's a loophole I expect teams to exploit it until it gets shut down. The margin between winning and losing is so thin that teams will look for every single advantage they can get.

If you were standing on defense and you watched the opposing coach put out signs to his players and you knew what those signs meant, you wouldn't try to watch him to keep the integrity of the game? I'd be in film study 8 days a week looking for every single advantage I can get.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1164831]I got better junk than that.

[URL="http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/61652/Redskins-hire-Torrian-Gray-from-U-of-Florida-as-DBs-coach/Default.aspx"]Redskins hire Torrian Gray from U of Florida as DBs coach[/URL][/quote]

That is some good junk but we already discussed that in the billion Redskins threads we have already going. I made this thread for discussing what's going on with the rest of the NFL.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=mooby;1164820]With an estimated 2000 days remaining until preseason starts, I'll lead off with this junk:

[url=http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18645192/tony-dungy-says-indianapolis-colts-stole-signals-cheat]Tony Dungy says Indianapolis Colts stole signals but didn't cheat[/url]

As much as I dislike Dungy he's right. Every team looks for every competitive advantage they can. It's why I don't put as much stock into Spygate/etc. We'd be silly to think the Redskins haven't tried to skirt the rules at some point in history. The difference is this kind of stuff usually stays in house, and the public only gets outraged when it leaks.[/quote]

Maybe Michael Vick should counsel him about it.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=mooby;1164837]I know my opinion isn't the popular one, and I agree you should always respect the rules of the game. But if there's a loophole I expect teams to exploit it until it gets shut down. The margin between winning and losing is so thin that teams will look for every single advantage they can get.

If you were standing on defense and you watched the opposing coach put out signs to his players and you knew what those signs meant, you wouldn't try to watch him to keep the integrity of the game? I'd be in film study 8 days a week looking for every single advantage I can get.[/quote]

Your opinion is alot more popular than you think.All teams in all sports try to get the competitive advantage ...it's part of the game.To your example ,from the time I was in little league my coachs have been watching other teams to see if they can guess what is going to happen by watching ther signals or signs be it in baseball or football.Deception and anticapation are part of the game.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1164843]Your opinion is alot more popular than you think.All teams in all sports try to get the competitive advantage ...it's part of the game.To your example ,from the time I was in little league my coachs have been watching other teams to see if they can guess what is going to happen by watching ther signals or signs be it in baseball or football.Deception and anticapation are part of the game.[/quote]

I fully agree. In our amateur football league we had one team that used large signs with icons to give the QB the next play - same icons for the same plays all year long. We played them in the final game of the season for the championship. Well... let´s see our defense wasn´t very suprised by their playcalling.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

When will teams start cutting players?
My wife is a big Bears fan so we're interested in seeing what happens to Jay Cutler.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=TheGuyFromOverThere;1164851]I fully agree. In our amateur football league we had one team that used large signs with icons to give the QB the next play - same icons for the same plays all year long. We played them in the final game of the season for the championship. Well... let´s see our defense wasn´t very suprised by their playcalling.[/quote]

Did you win? You can't leave us hanging on that.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1164864]When will teams start cutting players?
My wife is a big Bears fan so we're interested in seeing what happens to Jay Cutler.[/quote]

Whatever happens, it will involve sulking.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1164843]Your opinion is alot more popular than you think.All teams in all sports try to get the competitive advantage ...it's part of the game.To your example ,from the time I was in little league my coachs have been watching other teams to see if they can guess what is going to happen by watching ther signals or signs be it in baseball or football.Deception and anticapation are part of the game.[/quote]

Agreed.

I really don't see how it can be considered cheating if you know you're being filmed (which is obviously the case in a game. Practice is different, you're supposed to be safe).

It would be stupidity at its finest for a team NOT to the study the opponent's signals...

That's why every team in every sport at any level tries to crypt its signals.

When I was 12, playing rugby, we had a "code", I would tell a really long number and the last digit would be the only one that matters, telling which player would get the ball on a lineout.
If I made it too obvious, like "two thousand six hundred and fiftyyy... THREE", which I sometimes did, the opponents would understand the "code"... and it was my fault, not their.

I also remember a practice, when I played football, when our coach spotted a player from an other team in the bleachers, with his smartphone in hands.
Instead of throwing him out, he discreetly asked us to do some BS plays that didn't exist on our playbook. (Like he asked our DLs to do some funny stunts, jumping above one another).

He made them study plays that we wouldn't use. Smart.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

Yeah as really can't wait for the NFL Draft. As it ought to be a dandy. Yeah cheating is that.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1164843]Your opinion is alot more popular than you think.All teams in all sports try to get the competitive advantage ...it's part of the game.To your example ,from the time I was in little league my coachs have been watching other teams to see if they can guess what is going to happen by watching ther signals or signs be it in baseball or football.Deception and anticapation are part of the game.[/quote]

doesn't mean you shouldn't be punished for it when you get caught . . . don't do the crime if you are not willing to do the time

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1164871]doesn't mean you shouldn't be punished for it when you get caught . . . don't do the crime if you are not willing to do the time[/quote]

I think a difference has to be made between filming a team practice, which is cheating, and studying signals made during a game, that the whole world saw, which is just smart.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1164872]I think a difference has to be made between filming a team practice, which is cheating, and studying signals made during a game, that the whole world saw, which is just smart.[/quote]

if you say so . . . to me, cheating is cheating . . . the nfl should allow all players to have head sets on . . . no signals needed at that point . . . people get in trouble if a guy on 2nd is intentionally trying to steal signals in baseball . . . why is that different?

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1164878]if you say so . . . to me, cheating is cheating . . . the nfl should allow all players to have head sets on . . . no signals needed at that point . . . people get in trouble if a guy on 2nd is intentionally trying to steal signals in baseball . . . why is that different?[/quote]

I would say because you have to be realistic. How can you effectively prevent people from studying film of a game filmed by 50 cameras?

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/09/report-bruce-allen-wont-let-scot-mccloughan-talk-to-media/]Report: Bruce Allen won’t let Scot McCloughan talk to media | ProFootballTalk[/url]

yeah ok.....

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1164889][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/09/report-bruce-allen-wont-let-scot-mccloughan-talk-to-media/]Report: Bruce Allen won’t let Scot McCloughan talk to media | ProFootballTalk[/url]

yeah ok.....[/quote]

You know, if Dan/possibly Bruce was dumb enough to act this way, or god forbid Dan is dumb enough to dump everyone after 2017, I will seriously have to reconsider my love for this franchise. I'm not sold on Gruden either, and I know McC has a hell of a job to do this offseason. But for the most part I am happy with the job he has done building through the draft. Just look at our last 2 drafts. Keep in mind I grade on the 3 year scale (i.e. typically you have a good idea of a player's worth after 3 seasons.)

2015:
Brandon Scherff, 1st round: Pro Bowler, clearly worked out.
Preston Smith, 2nd round: Solid player and provides good depth at important position. 3rd year will be critical to determining whether he is JAG or can he be [I]the[/I] guy.
Matt Jones, 3rd round: Clearly hasn't panned out.
Jamison Crowder, 4th round: Clearly has performed and then some. Not only solidified our PR job, is an excellent slot receiver as well.
Arie Kouandjio, 4th round: Jury is still out, as of now considered solid depth guy.
Martrell Spaight, 5th round: Key depth guy, jury is still out due to minimal PT.
Kyshoen Jarrett, 6th round: After the way he played his rookie season, easily had earned a role as a key depth guy and potential starter heading forward until Darren McFadden came along and ruined his career.
Tevin Mitchel, 6th round: No idea if he is working out for the Colts, but they snatched him up after we waived him with an injury designation (he was most likely headed to the practice squad anyways.
Evan Spencer, 7th: Bust.
Austin Reiter, 7th: Destined to the practice squad until Browns snatched him up.

2016:
Josh Doctson, 1st: Jury still out, basically redshirted rookie year.
Su'a Cravens, 2nd: Moving to safety this year, impressed rookie season. Jury still out but trending up.
Kendall Fuller, 3rd: Jury still out, wasn't impressive rookie year but corner is typically one of those positions where every rookie learns the hard way. Given the family reputation and my admittedly biased fandom with VT I still think he will be solid eventually.
Matt Ioannidis, 5th: For now JAG, hard to be impressed when the D was a sieve for large parts of the year.
Nate Sudfield, 6th:JAG/long term project car, jury will be out possibly for another 2-4 years.
Steven Daniels, 7th: JAG
Keith Marshall, 7th: JAG

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=calia;1164866]Did you win? You can't leave us hanging on that.[/quote]

Of course we did. :)

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

The Washington Post reports Redskins president Bruce Allen has put GM Scot McCloughan on notice, and wants him "completely locked in on talent evaluation."
Reporter Mike Jones says Allen is "breathing down" McCloughan's neck after the Redskins' shaky 2016. McCloughan won't be allowed to meet with reporters at the Combine. McCloughan has provided needed stability, but he's been hit or miss in player acquisition. He hasn't quite lived up to the reputation he established in San Francisco and Seattle. Be that as it may, the last thing the Redskins need is another shakeup.

What in the fuck is this bullshit?

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1164872]I think a difference has to be made between filming a team practice, which is cheating, and studying signals made during a game, that the whole world saw, which is just smart.[/quote]

I agree with this.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1164892]The Washington Post reports Redskins president Bruce Allen has put GM Scot McCloughan on notice, and wants him "completely locked in on talent evaluation."

Reporter Mike Jones says Allen is "breathing down" McCloughan's neck after the Redskins' shaky 2016. McCloughan won't be allowed to meet with reporters at the Combine. McCloughan has provided needed stability, but he's been hit or miss in player acquisition. He hasn't quite lived up to the reputation he established in San Francisco and Seattle. Be that as it may, the last thing the Redskins need is another shakeup.



What in the fuck is this bullshit?[/QUOTE]



If Allen and Snyder run off McCloughan, we will never get a decent GM and the team will be mired in mediocrity (or worse) in perpetuity. I really hope this article is not accurate.


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Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=calia;1164898]If Allen and Snyder run off McCloughan, we will never get a decent GM and the team will be mired in mediocrity (or worse) in perpetuity. I really hope this article is not accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Bruce needs to chill the eff out...McCloughan is our greatest asset.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

Nothing I have seen from Bruce Allen in his entire tenure with us has impressed me. Still shaking my head at "winning the offseason." I guess hiring McC in the first place counts, but mismanaging that would undo the one good thing he has done. He's always seemed like a buffoon to me.


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Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

There's definitely a lot of valid reason for concern. There's no doubt this offseason and season are a kind of make-or-break.

McVay gone, Gruden going back to calling plays. Will he manage the clock well at the same time?

Do we shit the bed with Cousins, franchise him, and thus he gets away next year? I doubt it, but possible.

Do we fail to land the free agents we need along the D line?

Do we have trouble maintaining receiver talent because Garcon and DJax get huge deals elsewhere? If they leave, can we replace them adequately? A lot of that hinges on Doctson, can you trust him?

Right now is a major pivot point for us. If the franchise is worth their salt, leadership will step forth and lead like men. If they're not, it will devolve into a bunch of finger pointing.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1164892]The Washington Post reports Redskins president Bruce Allen has put GM Scot McCloughan on notice, and wants him "completely locked in on talent evaluation."
Reporter Mike Jones says Allen is "breathing down" McCloughan's neck after the Redskins' shaky 2016. McCloughan won't be allowed to meet with reporters at the Combine. [/quote]

Looking at the from the other side of the coin: It is entirely possible this is BA telling SM to stay in his lane. Alot of SM comments last year were at least mildly confrontational to KC..."cant over pay for one player" ..and the like. It could also be BA and DS telling SM to stay sober and do his job.

BA I think sometimes gets a bad rap on this board. He is put in hard position between DS and the media, and he says silly things on occasion, however, he has not been the total clown show Vinny the Ninny was- not even close. The trajectory has been slowly getting better over the last several years. DS certainly appears to be in his lane more than in the past as well.....my 2cp

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=Kope;1164902]Looking at the from the other side of the coin: It is entirely possible this is BA telling SM to stay in his lane. Alot of SM comments last year were at least mildly confrontational to KC..."cant over pay for one player" ..and the like. It could also be BA and DS telling SM to stay sober and do his job.

BA I think sometimes gets a bad rap on this board. He is put in hard position between DS and the media, and he says silly things on occasion, however, he has not been the total clown show Vinny the Ninny was- not even close. The trajectory has been slowly getting better over the last several years. DS certainly appears to be in his lane more than in the past as well.....my 2cp[/quote]

I kind of agree with this. I don't believe there is anything wrong with fueling the fire under Scot McCloughan and telling him that he needs to do his best with player acquisitions. Yes, I agree, SM is the best move Daniel Snyder has made, but SM has to live up to that reputation. Sure, going 4-12 one year and then turning around and winning the division the next year with 9 wins was a big turnaround - and was kind of a blessing and curse. That was a pretty quick turnaround. But, with all things considered, the team didn't improve in 2016. Had our 2015 and 2016 seasons traded places, then it would be a different story.

So, I don't mind Bruce Allen telling Scot McCloughan that this is a shit or get off the pot moment. The team has to see improvements on the field and in the win column in 2017. Another 8 or 9 win season is mediocre.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

I don't know if I'd agree that our team didn't improve in 2016. We still played a first place schedule and were still only one game out of the playoffs. Granted, we shit the bed a few times when we should have been on top of our game, but I can't say we're worse off. We added a few good rookies on defense and the jury is still out on Docston.

Problem is, are we keeping up with everyone else in the NFCE? I worry we got leap-frogged by the Giants/Cowboys/Eagles in a big way.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

Bruce,

Leave McC alone, you stupid shit!! He doesn't need to hit the bottle again, he's trying to clean the mess you created.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1164899]Bruce needs to chill the eff out...McCloughan is our greatest asset.[/quote]

We agree on this. I would dump Allen 11 times out of 10 before I even thought about getting rid of Scot.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

NFL dates and answers to all the "when does this start?" questions -

[url=http://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2017-important-nfl-dates/]2017 Important NFL Dates | NFL Football Operations[/url]

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1164889][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/09/report-bruce-allen-wont-let-scot-mccloughan-talk-to-media/]Report: Bruce Allen won’t let Scot McCloughan talk to media | ProFootballTalk[/url]

yeah ok.....[/quote]

This just sounds like Mike Florio contrived stuff. Maybe it's not, but Florio loves to post agitation articles about the Skins. He does it every off-season, and the fact that the Skins have been drama free for the past year is probably driving him insane. I know the [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/02/09/for-the-sake-of-all-parties-involved-the-redskins-need-a-home-run-offseason/?utm_term=.d89f19f31ed6"]initial article comes from Mike Jones[/URL] at the WP but he isn't much better than Florio, and his whole article is just looking at the off-season so far through glass half empty eyes.

So far, the coaching moves have been fairly average, I won't go all in on the DC, but the position coaches all get strong marks. So basically it's still a wait and see approach, but if BA is giving SM more time to study film and look at players, that's a good thing and maybe something they both agreed on (after all who really wants to talk to the media!!!)

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

Here's hoping Tandler is on target with all 5 of these predictions (well maybe not the 1st round draft pick)

[url=http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-five-redskins-offseason-predictions?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo&yptr=yahoo]Need to Know: Five Redskins offseason predictions | CSN Mid-Atlantic[/url]

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1164923]This just sounds like Mike Florio contrived stuff. Maybe it's not, but Florio loves to post agitation articles about the Skins. He does it every off-season, and the fact that the Skins have been drama free for the past year is probably driving him insane. I know the [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/02/09/for-the-sake-of-all-parties-involved-the-redskins-need-a-home-run-offseason/?utm_term=.d89f19f31ed6"]initial article comes from Mike Jones[/URL] at the WP but he isn't much better than Florio, and his whole article is just looking at the off-season so far through glass half empty eyes.



So far, the coaching moves have been fairly average, I won't go all in on the DC, but the position coaches all get strong marks. So basically it's still a wait and see approach, but if BA is giving SM more time to study film and look at players, that's a good thing and maybe something they both agreed on (after all who really wants to talk to the media!!!)[/QUOTE]


Yeah that Jones article is definitely glass half empty, maybe even 3/4 empty. Someone get that guy some Prozac.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1164927]Here's hoping Tandler is on target with all 5 of these predictions (well maybe not the 1st round draft pick)

[url=http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-five-redskins-offseason-predictions?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo&yptr=yahoo]Need to Know: Five Redskins offseason predictions | CSN Mid-Atlantic[/url][/quote]

[I]Are you kidding me? His final two predictions coming true would lead to failure, IMO.[/I]

They are:

[B]"The Redskins’ free agency activity won’t be as high as many expect[/B]—I’ll go into some detail on this in the next couple of days but the bottom line is that a lot teams with a lot of cap room will be chasing after a very small pool of quality free agents. Bruce Allen, Scot McCloughan and Eric Schaffer will adjust their valuations accordingly but they aren’t going to get into any big-time bidding wars. Maybe they land Bennie Logan and one other upper-tier player but other than that [B]look for late-March bargains."[/B]

[I]Yeah, that worked out great the last two years (sarcasm).[/I]

[B]Their top draft pick won’t be a defensive lineman[/B]—[B]Although I’ve written that it looks like the Redskins’ biggest need could match up with the best available player when they are on the clock at 17.[/B] But the more I think about it, the more I think that we’ll have another McCloughan curve ball. I do think that a D-lineman will become a Redskin at some point before the third round ends but a player at another position will be out there getting the bro hug from Roger Goodell and holding up the Redskins jersey with No. 1 on it.

[I]If the BPA at #17 is a DL and the Skins don't draft him, I might burst into flame.

[/I]

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

If we fire Scot after next yr, and let Kirk walk. I'm 110% done.

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Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

We have seen how they operate. They will patiently go after 2nd tier free agents, if a marquee free agent hits the market that they covet they will get the first visit and do everything they can to sign them.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

Only reason to fire Scot McCloughan is if Bobby Beathard wanted to come back and be our GM, and he's like 80 years old!

I agree with telling SM to really focus on player personnel, but putting him on the hot seat is a bit ridiculous.

Re: NFL offseason 1.0 thread
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1164966]We have seen how they operate. They will patiently go after 2nd tier free agents, if a marquee free agent hits the market that they covet they will get the first visit and do everything they can to sign them.[/quote]

Yep. I hope they keep doing it this way