3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

These questions/comments come from me not to put down our beloved team, but to raise some issues that i think are relevant for our franchise.


1. If we lose to the Eagles this week, our playoff hopes become less than 10% (virtually impossible).

At 4-4 and last place in our division coupled with a tough schedule coming up, it would be very tough to make a run at 10-6. If we win and we make it to 5-3, it would still be tough, however TB at TB looks winnable now.


2. Even though he has been injured this year, Is Clinton Portis overrated?

I like him a lot, I do. But he makes more than any RB in the league. Plus, Denver has proven to plug in multiple 1000 yd runners. He is a good RB, no doubt. But is he as explosive as he has been hyped up to be?


3. Will our team be able to fight off injuries and still be effective?

All teams get injuries. That is not the problem. But teams like the patriots and the eagles can play playoff caliber football even when they lose 5-6 starters from their team. I feel that if we lose even one offensive lineman, our O-line play drops off considerably. I think we need more depth there. Also, I think losing Cooley is big, because i think Robert Royal is not a good H-back.

On defense, injuries to the D-line seem like they can be adjusted to. But not having Griffin really hurts.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

I don't like to look at it that way, but it is true, we need to put more pressure on the QB, hell they have all day, we need to have more attitude, we have dropped off in that category, look at Bltimore, they suck but people still don't want to play them. We need to put McNabb down several times.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

Just an FYI, Cooley came back and was fine.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

I disagree about the 4-4 worry--we can still make it happen (9-7, say) if we win at home against Dallas and NY, win in AZ, win in StL, and beat the Raiders. And I'm not so frightened by TB after this week. And the iggles certianly look mortal.

So, let's assume that yesterday's performance was a low point (you're optimistic, right?)--we'll certainly be competetive in these games. Maybe we can actually do this?

About the injuries, well, people are going to have to step up. Remember: Williams and Blache have made no-names look great before. And I think Gibbs and Co. can do the same. We'll have to see--that's why they play the games. But I, like you, am an optimist!

PS Clinton is not overated IMO. He needs good O-line play (like every back outside of Barry Sanders).

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

Based on how many teams are 5-2 or 5-3 in the NFC, all a 9-7 finish would get us is another season without a playoff game. The NFC South has three teams that are 5-2.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[Quote]
About the injuries, well, people are going to have to step up. Remember: Williams and Blache have made no-names look great before. And I think Gibbs and Co. can do the same. We'll have to see--that's why they play the games. But I, like you, am an optimist!

PS Clinton is not overated IMO. He needs good O-line play (like every back outside of Barry Sanders).[/QUOTE]

The thing is, i dont think we have shown that we can sustain injuries to our O-line and still be effective. I hope Samuels is not hurt too bad.

Also, We shall see, Portis needs to make some amazing runs.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

1. No we can still go 10-6 if we lose the eagles game, just that it will be very very hard, not a 10% chance though with bucs and raiders comming up, then one hard one with chargers but then rams cardinals which i think if we get lucky we can win them all. That means we can go into the last 3 and lose 2 and still end up 10-6. If we only beat the cowboys giants, rams, cardinals, raiders, and tampa we get 10

2. No, 1300 yards last year, and a great blocker.

3. Cooley is OK. Also site REDSKINS 2004-2005 DEFENSE

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

does 1300 yards make you an elite running back? I think yards per carry needs to be considered.

Also, Samuels is hurt, hopefully not for long. I think losing any o-line man hurts our offense big time.


on the plus side, the Eagles may have lost Jevon Kearse.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[QUOTE=heybigstar]


2. Even though he has been injured this year, Is Clinton Portis overrated?
QUOTE]

I hate even thinking about this but this just might be true. We are paying him alot, in fact, is he the highest paid RB in the league? He just looks so slow, and is lacking any explosion. Not sure what to think here ...

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]...About the injuries, well, people are going to have to step up. Remember: Williams and Blache have made no-names look great before ... PS Clinton is not overated IMO. He needs good O-line play (like every back outside of Barry Sanders).[/QUOTE]

Griffin, Noble and Salavea were the anchors of the D-line last year. Now, Noble's gone for the year and Griffin and Salavea both are hanging by a thread with their injuries. Year after year it's the same thing -- this front office ignores the defensive line outside of an occasional castoff veteran free agent pickup like Griffin, who just happened to have a brilliant season in ‘04. But when they did NOTHING to bolster the D-line or even attempt to add any sort of depth this season, it was only a matter of time before this run defense started to show some cracks. Now, the floodgates are open, and like someone else astutely pointed out earlier, this is not the type of team like the Pats or Eagles of a few years ago that suffers absolutely no dropoff when the backups come in. A guy like Cornelius Griffin gets banged up, and boom – the defensive line is in serious trouble. For Blache and Gregg Williams to make guys like Boschetti, Aki Jones, and Cedric Killings into the superstars the starting D-line was last year should get them nothing less than the Nobel Prize. But trust me, that’s not going to happen. Expect the run defense to get much worse before it gets better.

As far as Clinton Portis is concerned, I still maintain that the Skins got the raw end of the deal on that trade. Giving up Champ Bailey AND a second rounder for Portis has so far not proven to be the fortune-changing event for this team. To me, the results we’ve seen from Portis have been lackluster at best, and that’s with an offensive line that until yesterday, was shaping up to be counted among the best in the league. We’ve gotten about as much from Clinton Portis in terms of overall rushing capabilities and yard-per-carry averages that you would have seen from just about any other running back for way less of a salary cap hit –- and we’d have had last year’s second round pick to boot.

We're a 'middle of the pack' team at best, and this front office gets most of the blame for it.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

i agree with the item about the trade. i dont think CP is a bad back. he might even be in the top 10. to me however, rb is just not a position that you overpay for (and thats what we did) unless it's like a top 3 back (LT for example). even then, that's hit and miss. another position that i wouldn't overpay for is MLB (see: trotter).

the RB position however is, what seems to me (and i dont play), the easiest to adjust to in the NFL. notice how tatum bell is AWESOME but basically any back there is awesome. it might not have been a HUGE mistake to make the trade; but the 2nd rder made it a bad one looking at it now.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

Agreed... a 2nd round pick when we give up a top 2 CB?

that hurts.
What will hurt more is if we give Denver a top 10 1st round pick.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[QUOTE=heybigstar]Agreed... a 2nd round pick when we give up a top 2 CB?

that hurts.
What will hurt more is if we give Denver a top 10 1st round pick.[/QUOTE]

i do think champ is overhyped though... last year jerry porter blew him up and we just saw TO go for 150 against him. He's super athletic, but he gets beat regularly. (springs held TO to 22 and 67 yards in our two games last year i believe)

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[QUOTE=VTSkins897]i agree with the item about the trade. i dont think CP is a bad back. he might even be in the top 10. to me however, rb is just not a position that you overpay for (and thats what we did) unless it's like a top 3 back (LT for example). even then, that's hit and miss. another position that i wouldn't overpay for is MLB (see: trotter).

the RB position however is, what seems to me (and i dont play), the easiest to adjust to in the NFL. notice how tatum bell is AWESOME but basically any back there is awesome. it might not have been a HUGE mistake to make the trade; but the 2nd rder made it a bad one looking at it now.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. While Denver likely has a better offensive line than the Redskins, a running back like Portis was supposed to make an average O-line better because of his ability to recognize the best running lanes, anticipate the angles of his opponents, all while shifting and adjusting at just the right moment to avoid the tackle and pick up extra yardage. Apart from that one play against the Buccaneers on opening day last year, we haven't seen that from Portis since.

So far, he hasn't been worth all the hype.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

Did you know who Salavea was prior to last year? I didn't. And Noble was playing hurt, recovering from the knee. All I'm saying is there's hope that these coaches can find the players to make it work. Griffen is a tougher loss to replace. Let's hope he can make it back soon.

I think CP has looked good this year--I don't count yesterday because he only had 4 carries. That's not the problem here--Clinton can do what this team needs. It's all about the O-line. I'm kinda tired of re-hashing that trade. It's done. But I'm not sure why anything that happened on Sunday should have changed your opinion of Clinton. Maybe you already didn't like the trade. Fine. But I can't see laying yesterday's debacle on Portis. The whole team stunk from top to bottom. Pick your favorite player and see how they did.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

champ was obviously hurt yesterday. so was portis for that matter. he took a shot to the head. can i add another optimistic point and say what a fantastic hit by sean taylor on amani toomer??? anyone else see that? over the middle on the end zone line, taylor just pummeled him. i need to get tivo :frusty:

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Did you know who Salavea was prior to last year? I didn't. And Noble was playing hurt, recovering from the knee. All I'm saying is there's hope that these coaches can find the players to make it work. Griffen is a tougher loss to replace. Let's hope he can make it back soon.

I think CP has looked good this year--I don't count yesterday because he only had 4 carries. That's not the problem here--Clinton can do what this team needs. It's all about the O-line. I'm kinda tired of re-hashing that trade. It's done. But I'm not sure why anything that happened on Sunday should have changed your opinion of Clinton. Maybe you already didn't like the trade. Fine. But I can't see laying yesterday's debacle on Portis. The whole team stunk from top to bottom. Pick your favorite player and see how they did.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I had heard of Joe Salavea prior to his stint here in Washington. Like I said, he along with Griffin and Noble made the stout run-stuffing unit what it was last year. While Noble was returning from a devastating knee injury, he wasn't playing hurt last year.

The problem is that the coaches won't be able to "find" the players to make this work. What they've got on the roster now is all there is. My point is not to expect the same type of performance out of Ryan Boschetti, Cedric Killings and Aki Jones. Those guys are fine just to rotate in to give the starters a breather -- but make no mistake, they are not starters. That was proven when the Giants racked up over 260 yards against us running the ball. To an extent, Williams brought out a whole lot more than anyone expected from the defense last season. But to be honest, the blitzes, the tackling, the convergence to the ball carrier hasn't been all that great this year, and Gregg Williams can't escape blame for that.

You're right about the Portis trade. Until somebody invents time machines, you can't bitch about the past. And you're also right about Portis being "good" this year. But that's just it, he's been ... good. He's not a superstar, and I'll bet you can ask just about any fan, and many within the organization (off the record, mind you) that Portis hasn't been quite the back he was in Denver. Not even close if you ask me. And by pointing that out, I don't pin all the blame for yesterday's loss on him solely. Someone mentioned that Portis just hasn't proven why he was worth all that we gave up to get him. I agree.

Let there be no doubt this was a team loss and no one, NOT ONE PLAYER on this team escapes criticism. My posts would go even longer than they already are if I were to attempt to single out all 53 players and how they shared in the stink they let out at Giants Stadium. By far, this loss looked worse than any of the 10 they dropped all of last year.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

While I worry you may be right, Beems, I still think back to our debates prior to last year--we thought that the line defense against the run would be a weak spot, and that turned out not to be the case. So I think these coaches can make do with less than all-star talent there.

As for the stats against the run, what is worrisome is the big play, not the average against. Take out Barbers big runs and the D's average is not bad, even in a game where they ran way more plays than we did. But the big play is killing us. I'm not sure that that's the D-line getting hurt there as much as trouble with the second level--LBs over pursuing, DBs taking bad angles, etc. We need our D linemen to clog things up so our LBs can make plays against the run. I think we have guys that can do that. BUt if the scheme is giving up the big play a few times a game, we are in trouble.

BTW, I didn't think any player escaped YOUR criticism! That was a general comment for those who select a few choice guys to blame, while missing the team's overall failure.

Still, I think we can fix this. We are not as bad as we looked on Sunday. I do believe that Gibbs can find ways to motivate his players and get some positive out of this debacle. We'll see!

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Still, I think we can fix this. We are not as bad as we looked on Sunday. I do believe that Gibbs can find ways to motivate his players and get some positive out of this debacle. We'll see![/QUOTE]

Yep, might as well get it out of their system, never to return. Every team will have a game where nothing goes right. Happens to the best of them every year -- even the '85 Bears. You'd just rather it happen against an non-conference opponent, not your division rivals!

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

Don't get me started on the bailey for portis trade. they should have traded him for draft picks.we are a power running team , always have been. and to also give a second rounder on top of that wasn't right

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

Yeah, I dont think portis is a top 4 RB in this league

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[QUOTE=heybigstar]These questions/comments come from me not to put down our beloved team, but to raise some issues that i think are relevant for our franchise.


1. If we lose to the Eagles this week, our playoff hopes become less than 10% (virtually impossible).

At 4-4 and last place in our division coupled with a tough schedule coming up, it would be very tough to make a run at 10-6. If we win and we make it to 5-3, it would still be tough, however TB at TB looks winnable now.


2. Even though he has been injured this year, Is Clinton Portis overrated?

I like him a lot, I do. But he makes more than any RB in the league. Plus, Denver has proven to plug in multiple 1000 yd runners. He is a good RB, no doubt. But is he as explosive as he has been hyped up to be?


3. Will our team be able to fight off injuries and still be effective?

All teams get injuries. That is not the problem. But teams like the patriots and the eagles can play playoff caliber football even when they lose 5-6 starters from their team. I feel that if we lose even one offensive lineman, our O-line play drops off considerably. I think we need more depth there. Also, I think losing Cooley is big, because i think Robert Royal is not a good H-back.

On defense, injuries to the D-line seem like they can be adjusted to. But not having Griffin really hurts.[/QUOTE]

Sellers and Koz are our back up HB's

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

One thing...Portis is the 2nd highest paid back in the league...Tomlinson is the highest.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

It hasn't been mentioned much, but we went for the TD, when we could have settled for a FG.

I admire HOF Coach Gibbs for that!

:dallas: :dallas:

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]I'm kinda tired of re-hashing that trade. It's done. But I'm not sure why anything that happened on Sunday should have changed your opinion of Clinton. Maybe you already didn't like the trade. Fine. But I can't see laying yesterday's debacle on Portis. The whole team stunk from top to bottom. Pick your favorite player and see how they did.[/QUOTE]

I'm tired of it too. Some people love to pile on it especially after a loss.

Get over it already, the deal is done and this is the hand we've been dealt.

Overall our aquisitions have been pretty solid since Gibbs came back, you can't address every single need each offseason and each pickup isn't going to be a homerun. But again, as Schneed10 has pointed out before, overall we've had more hits than misses.

Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan.
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'm tired of it too. Some people love to pile on it especially after a loss.

Get over it already, the deal is done and this is the hand we've been dealt.

Overall our aquisitions have been pretty solid since Gibbs came back, you can't address every single need each offseason and each pickup isn't going to be a homerun. But again, as Schneed10 has pointed out before, overall we've had more hits than misses.[/QUOTE]
F_ck Champ!!!!!!!! he didnt wanna be here... and to be honest his ass was getting burnt alot in his last year here and
last sunday he looked pitiful...i