3 things from a very optimisitc fan.

heybigstar · 10-31-2005, 01:29 PM

These questions/comments come from me not to put down our beloved team, but to raise some issues that i think are relevant for our franchise.

1. If we lose to the Eagles this week, our playoff hopes become less than 10% (virtually impossible).

At 4-4 and last place in our division coupled with a tough schedule coming up, it would be very tough to make a run at 10-6. If we win and we make it to 5-3, it would still be tough, however TB at TB looks winnable now.

2. Even though he has been injured this year, Is Clinton Portis overrated?

I like him a lot, I do. But he makes more than any RB in the league. Plus, Denver has proven to plug in multiple 1000 yd runners. He is a good RB, no doubt. But is he as explosive as he has been hyped up to be?

3. Will our team be able to fight off injuries and still be effective?

All teams get injuries. That is not the problem. But teams like the patriots and the eagles can play playoff caliber football even when they lose 5-6 starters from their team. I feel that if we lose even one offensive lineman, our O-line play drops off considerably. I think we need more depth there. Also, I think losing Cooley is big, because i think Robert Royal is not a good H-back.

On defense, injuries to the D-line seem like they can be adjusted to. But not having Griffin really hurts.

twinskinsfan · 10-31-2005, 01:38 PM

I don't like to look at it that way, but it is true, we need to put more pressure on the QB, hell they have all day, we need to have more attitude, we have dropped off in that category, look at Bltimore, they suck but people still don't want to play them. We need to put McNabb down several times.

TheMalcolmConnection · 10-31-2005, 02:20 PM

Just an FYI, Cooley came back and was fine.

JWsleep · 10-31-2005, 04:13 PM

I disagree about the 4-4 worry--we can still make it happen (9-7, say) if we win at home against Dallas and NY, win in AZ, win in StL, and beat the Raiders. And I'm not so frightened by TB after this week. And the iggles certianly look mortal.

So, let's assume that yesterday's performance was a low point (you're optimistic, right?)--we'll certainly be competetive in these games. Maybe we can actually do this?

About the injuries, well, people are going to have to step up. Remember: Williams and Blache have made no-names look great before. And I think Gibbs and Co. can do the same. We'll have to see--that's why they play the games. But I, like you, am an optimist!

PS Clinton is not overated IMO. He needs good O-line play (like every back outside of Barry Sanders).

Twilbert07 · 10-31-2005, 04:16 PM

Based on how many teams are 5-2 or 5-3 in the NFC, all a 9-7 finish would get us is another season without a playoff game. The NFC South has three teams that are 5-2.

heybigstar · 10-31-2005, 05:07 PM

Quote:

About the injuries, well, people are going to have to step up. Remember: Williams and Blache have made no-names look great before. And I think Gibbs and Co. can do the same. We'll have to see--that's why they play the games. But I, like you, am an optimist!

PS Clinton is not overated IMO. He needs good O-line play (like every back outside of Barry Sanders).

The thing is, i dont think we have shown that we can sustain injuries to our O-line and still be effective. I hope Samuels is not hurt too bad.

Also, We shall see, Portis needs to make some amazing runs.

BigSKINBauer · 10-31-2005, 05:07 PM

1. No we can still go 10-6 if we lose the eagles game, just that it will be very very hard, not a 10% chance though with bucs and raiders comming up, then one hard one with chargers but then rams cardinals which i think if we get lucky we can win them all. That means we can go into the last 3 and lose 2 and still end up 10-6. If we only beat the cowboys giants, rams, cardinals, raiders, and tampa we get 10

2. No, 1300 yards last year, and a great blocker.

3. Cooley is OK. Also site REDSKINS 2004-2005 DEFENSE

heybigstar · 10-31-2005, 05:09 PM

does 1300 yards make you an elite running back? I think yards per carry needs to be considered.

Also, Samuels is hurt, hopefully not for long. I think losing any o-line man hurts our offense big time.

on the plus side, the Eagles may have lost Jevon Kearse.

gortiz · 10-31-2005, 05:23 PM

[QUOTE=heybigstar]

2. Even though he has been injured this year, Is Clinton Portis overrated?
QUOTE]

I hate even thinking about this but this just might be true. We are paying him alot, in fact, is he the highest paid RB in the league? He just looks so slow, and is lacking any explosion. Not sure what to think here ...

Beemnseven · 10-31-2005, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWsleep

...About the injuries, well, people are going to have to step up. Remember: Williams and Blache have made no-names look great before ... PS Clinton is not overated IMO. He needs good O-line play (like every back outside of Barry Sanders).

Griffin, Noble and Salavea were the anchors of the D-line last year. Now, Noble's gone for the year and Griffin and Salavea both are hanging by a thread with their injuries. Year after year it's the same thing -- this front office ignores the defensive line outside of an occasional castoff veteran free agent pickup like Griffin, who just happened to have a brilliant season in ‘04. But when they did NOTHING to bolster the D-line or even attempt to add any sort of depth this season, it was only a matter of time before this run defense started to show some cracks. Now, the floodgates are open, and like someone else astutely pointed out earlier, this is not the type of team like the Pats or Eagles of a few years ago that suffers absolutely no dropoff when the backups come in. A guy like Cornelius Griffin gets banged up, and boom – the defensive line is in serious trouble. For Blache and Gregg Williams to make guys like Boschetti, Aki Jones, and Cedric Killings into the superstars the starting D-line was last year should get them nothing less than the Nobel Prize. But trust me, that’s not going to happen. Expect the run defense to get much worse before it gets better.

As far as Clinton Portis is concerned, I still maintain that the Skins got the raw end of the deal on that trade. Giving up Champ Bailey AND a second rounder for Portis has so far not proven to be the fortune-changing event for this team. To me, the results we’ve seen from Portis have been lackluster at best, and that’s with an offensive line that until yesterday, was shaping up to be counted among the best in the league. We’ve gotten about as much from Clinton Portis in terms of overall rushing capabilities and yard-per-carry averages that you would have seen from just about any other running back for way less of a salary cap hit –- and we’d have had last year’s second round pick to boot.

We're a 'middle of the pack' team at best, and this front office gets most of the blame for it.

VTSkins897 · 10-31-2005, 05:44 PM

i agree with the item about the trade. i dont think CP is a bad back. he might even be in the top 10. to me however, rb is just not a position that you overpay for (and thats what we did) unless it's like a top 3 back (LT for example). even then, that's hit and miss. another position that i wouldn't overpay for is MLB (see: trotter).

the RB position however is, what seems to me (and i dont play), the easiest to adjust to in the NFL. notice how tatum bell is AWESOME but basically any back there is awesome. it might not have been a HUGE mistake to make the trade; but the 2nd rder made it a bad one looking at it now.

heybigstar · 10-31-2005, 06:01 PM

Agreed... a 2nd round pick when we give up a top 2 CB?

that hurts.
What will hurt more is if we give Denver a top 10 1st round pick.

That Guy · 10-31-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heybigstar

Agreed... a 2nd round pick when we give up a top 2 CB?

that hurts.
What will hurt more is if we give Denver a top 10 1st round pick.

i do think champ is overhyped though... last year jerry porter blew him up and we just saw TO go for 150 against him. He's super athletic, but he gets beat regularly. (springs held TO to 22 and 67 yards in our two games last year i believe)

Beemnseven · 10-31-2005, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTSkins897

i agree with the item about the trade. i dont think CP is a bad back. he might even be in the top 10. to me however, rb is just not a position that you overpay for (and thats what we did) unless it's like a top 3 back (LT for example). even then, that's hit and miss. another position that i wouldn't overpay for is MLB (see: trotter).

the RB position however is, what seems to me (and i dont play), the easiest to adjust to in the NFL. notice how tatum bell is AWESOME but basically any back there is awesome. it might not have been a HUGE mistake to make the trade; but the 2nd rder made it a bad one looking at it now.

Exactly. While Denver likely has a better offensive line than the Redskins, a running back like Portis was supposed to make an average O-line better because of his ability to recognize the best running lanes, anticipate the angles of his opponents, all while shifting and adjusting at just the right moment to avoid the tackle and pick up extra yardage. Apart from that one play against the Buccaneers on opening day last year, we haven't seen that from Portis since.

So far, he hasn't been worth all the hype.

JWsleep · 10-31-2005, 06:15 PM

Did you know who Salavea was prior to last year? I didn't. And Noble was playing hurt, recovering from the knee. All I'm saying is there's hope that these coaches can find the players to make it work. Griffen is a tougher loss to replace. Let's hope he can make it back soon.

I think CP has looked good this year--I don't count yesterday because he only had 4 carries. That's not the problem here--Clinton can do what this team needs. It's all about the O-line. I'm kinda tired of re-hashing that trade. It's done. But I'm not sure why anything that happened on Sunday should have changed your opinion of Clinton. Maybe you already didn't like the trade. Fine. But I can't see laying yesterday's debacle on Portis. The whole team stunk from top to bottom. Pick your favorite player and see how they did.

10-31-2005, 01:29 PM	#1
heybigstar Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 41 Posts: 375	3 things from a very optimisitc fan. These questions/comments come from me not to put down our beloved team, but to raise some issues that i think are relevant for our franchise. 1. If we lose to the Eagles this week, our playoff hopes become less than 10% (virtually impossible). At 4-4 and last place in our division coupled with a tough schedule coming up, it would be very tough to make a run at 10-6. If we win and we make it to 5-3, it would still be tough, however TB at TB looks winnable now. 2. Even though he has been injured this year, Is Clinton Portis overrated? I like him a lot, I do. But he makes more than any RB in the league. Plus, Denver has proven to plug in multiple 1000 yd runners. He is a good RB, no doubt. But is he as explosive as he has been hyped up to be? 3. Will our team be able to fight off injuries and still be effective? All teams get injuries. That is not the problem. But teams like the patriots and the eagles can play playoff caliber football even when they lose 5-6 starters from their team. I feel that if we lose even one offensive lineman, our O-line play drops off considerably. I think we need more depth there. Also, I think losing Cooley is big, because i think Robert Royal is not a good H-back. On defense, injuries to the D-line seem like they can be adjusted to. But not having Griffin really hurts. __________________ Hail to the Redskins.

10-31-2005, 01:38 PM	#2
twinskinsfan Special Teams Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 141	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. I don't like to look at it that way, but it is true, we need to put more pressure on the QB, hell they have all day, we need to have more attitude, we have dropped off in that category, look at Bltimore, they suck but people still don't want to play them. We need to put McNabb down several times.

10-31-2005, 02:20 PM	#3
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,225	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. Just an FYI, Cooley came back and was fine. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

10-31-2005, 04:13 PM	#4
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,717	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. I disagree about the 4-4 worry--we can still make it happen (9-7, say) if we win at home against Dallas and NY, win in AZ, win in StL, and beat the Raiders. And I'm not so frightened by TB after this week. And the iggles certianly look mortal. So, let's assume that yesterday's performance was a low point (you're optimistic, right?)--we'll certainly be competetive in these games. Maybe we can actually do this? About the injuries, well, people are going to have to step up. Remember: Williams and Blache have made no-names look great before. And I think Gibbs and Co. can do the same. We'll have to see--that's why they play the games. But I, like you, am an optimist! PS Clinton is not overated IMO. He needs good O-line play (like every back outside of Barry Sanders). __________________ Hail from Houston!

10-31-2005, 04:16 PM	#5
Twilbert07 Impact Rookie Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Age: 59 Posts: 594	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. Based on how many teams are 5-2 or 5-3 in the NFC, all a 9-7 finish would get us is another season without a playoff game. The NFC South has three teams that are 5-2.

10-31-2005, 05:07 PM	#7
BigSKINBauer Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Washington, DC Age: 36 Posts: 5,688	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. 1. No we can still go 10-6 if we lose the eagles game, just that it will be very very hard, not a 10% chance though with bucs and raiders comming up, then one hard one with chargers but then rams cardinals which i think if we get lucky we can win them all. That means we can go into the last 3 and lose 2 and still end up 10-6. If we only beat the cowboys giants, rams, cardinals, raiders, and tampa we get 10 2. No, 1300 yards last year, and a great blocker. 3. Cooley is OK. Also site REDSKINS 2004-2005 DEFENSE

10-31-2005, 05:09 PM	#8
heybigstar Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 41 Posts: 375	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. does 1300 yards make you an elite running back? I think yards per carry needs to be considered. Also, Samuels is hurt, hopefully not for long. I think losing any o-line man hurts our offense big time. on the plus side, the Eagles may have lost Jevon Kearse. __________________ Hail to the Redskins.

10-31-2005, 05:23 PM	#9
gortiz Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 498	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. [QUOTE=heybigstar] 2. Even though he has been injured this year, Is Clinton Portis overrated? QUOTE] I hate even thinking about this but this just might be true. We are paying him alot, in fact, is he the highest paid RB in the league? He just looks so slow, and is lacking any explosion. Not sure what to think here ... __________________ "If people are underestimating us," Jansen said, "there will be a rude awakening this year."

10-31-2005, 05:44 PM	#11
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 41 Posts: 890	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. i agree with the item about the trade. i dont think CP is a bad back. he might even be in the top 10. to me however, rb is just not a position that you overpay for (and thats what we did) unless it's like a top 3 back (LT for example). even then, that's hit and miss. another position that i wouldn't overpay for is MLB (see: trotter). the RB position however is, what seems to me (and i dont play), the easiest to adjust to in the NFL. notice how tatum bell is AWESOME but basically any back there is awesome. it might not have been a HUGE mistake to make the trade; but the 2nd rder made it a bad one looking at it now.

10-31-2005, 06:01 PM	#12
heybigstar Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 41 Posts: 375	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. Agreed... a 2nd round pick when we give up a top 2 CB? that hurts. What will hurt more is if we give Denver a top 10 1st round pick. __________________ Hail to the Redskins.

10-31-2005, 06:15 PM	#15
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,717	Re: 3 things from a very optimisitc fan. Did you know who Salavea was prior to last year? I didn't. And Noble was playing hurt, recovering from the knee. All I'm saying is there's hope that these coaches can find the players to make it work. Griffen is a tougher loss to replace. Let's hope he can make it back soon. I think CP has looked good this year--I don't count yesterday because he only had 4 carries. That's not the problem here--Clinton can do what this team needs. It's all about the O-line. I'm kinda tired of re-hashing that trade. It's done. But I'm not sure why anything that happened on Sunday should have changed your opinion of Clinton. Maybe you already didn't like the trade. Fine. But I can't see laying yesterday's debacle on Portis. The whole team stunk from top to bottom. Pick your favorite player and see how they did. __________________ Hail from Houston!

3 things from a very optimisitc fan.

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