game & refs
 

I'm really upset at this game, for 1 our secondary sucks, for a team that couldn't beat the 49er's they sure put it on us. couldn't get to the QB for shit. our blitzing sucks, and not to mention turnovers once again killed us and you can't leave the sorry ass refs out of this because in the first quater clearly shows he was not forced out and on the 2 pt conversion alstott elbow was down b4 the ball crossed the goal line. please some one respond to this because i want to read what you guys reply.

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To me, this one comes down to the call to run it on 3rd and two instead of going for the first down with a short throw which would have ended the game if we completed and yielded no different result any other way except giving us more time to drive the field.

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I don't think the refs were that bad today... they can't get every call

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I couldn't agree more Daseal.

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[QUOTE=Duffman003]I don't think the refs were that bad today... they can't get every call[/QUOTE]Thinking like that will get you linched after this game I think. LOL

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[QUOTE=Daseal]To me, this one comes down to the call to run it on 3rd and two instead of going for the first down with a short throw which would have ended the game if we completed and yielded no different result any other way except giving us more time to drive the field.[/QUOTE]


Disagree. The play call was decent, but we should've picked up the first down on that Portis Run. The O-line has got to help the back pick up that down.

I'm heartbroken by the loss, but some positives:
1. Showed heart to play the way we did in the second half.
2. Giants lost.
3. Should have Griffin and Taylor back next week.

We're even-steven. We had no business winning against Seattle. They lost that one. Tampa made the plays at the end to win this game. We lost this one. Even-Steven, baby.

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They most certainly missed the call on the 2 point conversion, but if you don't jump they don't get to the one and they don't go. If you don't get torched, they don't get down the field and score. The Skins need to take ownership too, if they didn't leave the door open, this isn't a loss. If they go for juggular and convert on 3rd and 2 the possession never happens. Mental mistakes lead to situations where bad calls could be made. I, personally, think Betts stepped out, but that went our way.

Obviously the call on the 2 was horrendous and it cost the Skins the game, but it really should have never come down to that. That's a bad team we played and a terrible offense and we gave up 36. If we needed to drop more into coverage tehy should have...that was horrendous play by the D backs that cost us this game as much as anything else.

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[QUOTE=hurrykaine]Disagree. The play call was decent, but we should've picked up the first down on that Portis Run. The O-line has got to help the back pick up that down.[/QUOTE]

I'm with you 100% on this one. Early in the game someone in the chat room was bitching why did we pass on 3rd and 2 when Portis was running right through the Tampa D. And then when we run on 3rd and 2 the question is why didn't we pass?

What if they went for the pass and it was intercepted or Brunell got sacked and fumbled? That deep in your own territory, that late in the game, you have to play it safe. No matter how boring it is.

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The pass rush is officially really bad.

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I don't think this game came down to poor calls by the refs. We got a break on the TD run by Betts and the fumble by Carnell Williams.

The Alstott call seemed like a reasonable one to me. Can anyone say with a straight face and 100% certainty that Alstott didn't cross the goal line? I can't. It was a questionable call, but one that shouldn't have been overturned on review (where there must be indisputable evidence to reverse the call).

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cant see how you diagree with the 2 pt call...his elbow was down b4 the goal therefore how could the ball be across the goal...come on man you need glasses just as they do!!

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I don't think this game came down to poor calls by the refs. We got a break on the TD run by Betts and the fumble by Carnell Williams.

The Alstott call seemed like a reasonable one to me. Can anyone say with a straight face and 100% certainty that Alstott didn't cross the goal line? I can't. It was a questionable call, but one that shouldn't have been overturned on review (where there must be indisputable evidence to reverse the call).[/QUOTE]

its pretty hard to call that a TD in the first place, it was just a straight up guess by the ref

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At regular speed I was positive he was in. I never thought there was a doubt, but during the replay you can see his elbow hit the ground and it doesn't hit any paint. That was the hand he had the ball in. He was facing backwards, he wasn't it.

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hell yeah i can say it with a straight face...he didnt cross the line his ELBOW WAS DOWN b4 the goal and i'll say it again the elbow down how can the ball be across!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Our three turnovers in the first half is probably the difference more than anything else. Until we learn to not turn the ball over, we're going to suffer more frustration like today. I think I am dejected from this game than our game against the Giants.

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[QUOTE=Hail2em]hell yeah i can say it with a straight face...he didnt cross the line his ELBOW WAS DOWN b4 the goal and i'll say it again the elbow down how can the ball be across!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

thats exactly right.

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reality is we are not that good.Every week we point the finger at the refs.The way they were called they were right by the rules.No evidence to overturn the calls.

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The problem is, since the officials on the field ruled that he was in, then he could have been stopped on the five, driven back to the other goal line, and the refs still would have called him in. Sounds to me since the boothe couldn't see the placement of the ball on the replay, and probably wasn't even looking at his elbow.

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Arrington should have stopped Alstot at the one yard line, he was in perfect position. But for some reason He left his feet, jumped over the pile ending up in the backfield. What was he thinking? Walt Harris and Prealou cost us this game, they were out of position for most of the afternoon. Did anyone notice the complete lack of a pass rush? Even when we blitzed our linebackers we couldnt get pressure. Simms had time to sit back and find his wide open recievers with our lack of a pass rush and the horrible play of the secondary.

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a lot of things cost us this game. First off, one thing i noticed, when we blitzed, it seemed like they were completing big passes all day. We cannot keep blitzing and leaving our corners on an island, because i saw not only Walt Harris but Carlos Rogers giving up the deep ball. Our defense gave up too many big plays. I don't care about the refs, the game shouldn't have been close enough for the refs to make a huge difference anyways. We have a lot of glaring weaknesses as it is.

1. We can't defend the big plays
2. We can't get a good pass rush
3. We give up a lot of turnovers on offense

I really feel like considering how many turnovers we had, the game shouldn't have been that close. People have figured our defense out. Chris Simms had a field day with our secondary, and i get the feeling even with Sean Taylor in there we still would've given up big plays. We just don't have a good enough #2 corner to run with opposing teams #2 receivers. Maybe Walt Harris doesn't have enough speed, I don't know. One thing our offense showed me was that even though we turned the ball over, we still came back and put points on the board. That's why i'm upset with our defense. As for the third component, i think special teams is the one area that we don't have a problem at right now. That was a beautiful kick return for a td by Ladell.

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[QUOTE=Daseal]To me, this one comes down to the call to run it on 3rd and two instead of going for the first down with a short throw which would have ended the game if we completed and yielded no different result any other way except giving us more time to drive the field.[/QUOTE]

Beat me to it Daseal, once again Gibbs hands the ball back over to the opposing offense with plenty of time to drive the field to either tie, or win the game, how many games do we have to play with our defense having their backs against our own end zone in the final minute trying to hold on to a victory? We had a pattened Gibbs 3 and out, Gibbs religously goes to that run when we all know the oppossing defense is keying on it, and we all know we can't run it when we have to, I was yelling not to run it there, and I would have rather had Betts in that situation then Portis if we had to run.
A play action role out leaving Brunell with the option to throw or run would have been a much better call, although we should have been running that play on second down as well. I don't care how many yards Clinton had in the first half or for the year, WE CAN'T RUN IN SHORT YARDAGE PERIOD!

As for the refs, well what does anyone expect? We all know the league hates Snyder there is know doubt in my mind they have given a wink, wink, nod, nod, to make sure anything close goes against us, that call for pushing Galloway out of bounds was IMO not a bad call, but a delibrate call, further more when was the last time we saw such a quick review? Especially on a play that is decieding the game on that 2 point conversion, and guess what they didn't want to see that last replay from the back of the endzone which clearly showed his elbow down before the goal line, and guess what we will get another apology from the league, and another excuse on how and why they blew it, while they try to contain their laughter.


I will no longer refer to our left offensive tackle as Samuels again, from hence forth I will only refer to him as the STATUE, the guy is useless out there, when guy's aren't blowing by him, he's either doubling down on someone while defenders run untouched, or standing around looking for someone while defenders are all over Brunell.

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Not sure why people are whinning about that third and two play. We go back to throw it and throw an incompletion, clock stops, and the other team has even more time to comfortably drive down the field. The way we ran all over their defense today, it was the best call to make in that situation.

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[QUOTE=skinsguy]Not sure why people are whinning about that third and two play. We go back to throw it and throw an incompletion, clock stops, and the other team has even more time to comfortably drive down the field. The way we ran all over their defense today, it was the best call to make in that situation.[/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more

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Alstott appeared to be down, but really that was not "indisputable" evidence.

I was watching this game at a Seattle bar side by side with the Seahawks/Rams game. Seattle was up by 8, Rams had no timeouts and 3rd and short. Seattle calls PA and converts and puts away the game (Alexander runs it later for a bonus TD). A few minutes later we have a similiar situation, but played it conservative. With the 2 minute warning coming, that should have been a pass play. There's your game right there. Our defense proved most of the day we could not stop them and we got what we deserved.

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Guys we just got schooled on why you play aggressive and not passive in this league. I am glad I have gotten on this board tonight and the discussion is about the 3 and 2 call late in the game to seal the deal when Portis runs up the middle. I know its coming , you know its coming , the Bucs know its coming. Why don't we roll Brunell out on a playaction and pass to Cooley? Gibbs played passive and Gruden played aggressive (going for 2) and the Skins lost. The whole game was decided on those two decisions. Guys maded plays on both sides of the ball, but Gibbs needs to call his buddy Vermeil and lean a lesson on agressive playcalling.

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I'm with you 100% on this one. Early in the game someone in the chat room was bitching why did we pass on 3rd and 2 when Portis was running right through the Tampa D. And then when we run on 3rd and 2 the question is why didn't we pass?

What if they went for the pass and it was intercepted or Brunell got sacked and fumbled? That deep in your own territory, that late in the game, you have to play it safe. No matter how boring it is.[/QUOTE]


To bad gruden didn't play it safe, oh yea he won though.

Nonesense! Playing it safe is what cost us the game, playing it safe is only another word for playing scared, giving the ball back to tampa was the most unsafe call we could have made, what if we open up the offense like we did the entire game and make a first down? Maybe we win? Winners are not afraid to play to win, losers play not to lose.

With that kind of thinking we might as well take a knee in overtime.

I hope this finally wakes Gibbs up to the realazation that Portis is not a power back, and our line can't power run.

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[QUOTE=Hail2em]I'm really upset at this game, for 1 our secondary sucks, for a team that couldn't beat the 49er's they sure put it on us. couldn't get to the QB for shit. our blitzing sucks, and not to mention turnovers once again killed us and you can't leave the sorry ass refs out of this because in the first quater clearly shows he was not forced out and on the 2 pt conversion alstott elbow was down b4 the ball crossed the goal line. please some one respond to this because i want to read what you guys reply.[/QUOTE]

There were clearly several calls that the Refs bullshited us on.

1.The bullshit call that ruled that Prioleau forced Galloway out of bounds when it was clear that bastard didn't have two feet in.

2. The 3rd down conversion to David Patten. The fucken guy hit him before he had the chance to catch the ball. No call

3.Alstott's back was on the ground before he reached over and put the ball over the goal. It was clearly a stop. The refs didn't call it immediately because the last thing they saw was him on his back with the ball tucked under his arm in front of the goal. That shit is real.

At this point , if the refs didn't win the game for Bucs then Walt Harris certainly helped.

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[QUOTE=Daseal]To me, this one comes down to the call to run it on 3rd and two instead of going for the first down with a short throw which would have ended the game if we completed and yielded no different result any other way except giving us more time to drive the field.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you Daseal 100%. I think that decision to run the ball as opposed to passing it was what cost us the game. Third and three was too far to run in that situation. TB was out of timeouts' had we picked up that first down there, we could have run out the clock. I hate to second guess the coach.

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i agree as well seeing how they scored to tie it anyway we had 2 CHANCES to get 2 yards....right?

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The game never should have come down to the 2-point conversion. The defense let a scrub like Simms tie us twice and then beat us.

Also, we have to be concerned about Brunell's propensity to put te ball on thye ground. His fumble last week would have killed us if not for Portis' tackle. One of his two fumbles this week gave them 7 points. I hope he makes a concerted effort to stop fumbling.

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[QUOTE=offiss]To bad gruden didn't play it safe, oh yea he won though.[/QUOTE]

Are you talking about on that last TD drive, when the Bucs were down by a touchdown? Of course Gruden is not going to play it safe, he needs to go for the win. If he had the lead though you don't think he would have kept the ball on the ground?

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someome if ya got gibbs email send this shit to him and let the whole coaching staff read it!!

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There was a pretty good shot of Betts stepping possibly stepping on the line on his kickoff return. Do we blame the refs there too?

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who cares we're not talkin about that game!!!! but if its a bad call then yeah!!

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i think this is the first game we have ever lost when portis rushes for 100 yards

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[QUOTE=redrock-skins]There was a pretty good shot of Betts stepping possibly stepping on the line on his kickoff return. Do we blame the refs there too?[/QUOTE]

You sound like that justifies the several calls or none calls that permeated this game. I've already mentioned three calls that should have gone to the Redskins on another thread. Betts was not out. His heal was in the air over the line but never the less in the air. That's what the refs saw. Alstott was cleary on his back with the ball tucked under this arm. How can you reach over the goal if you're already down? As my lawyer says, " I rest my case."

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The skins did their part in losing this game but the refs ability to use instant replay is to prevent incorrect calls and they blew in this one. For one they need to expand the rules to correct innane calls like todays force out call as well as questionable PI calls. 2nd, while that camera angle couldn't show the actual ball, any intelligent person would infer that if the elbow of the arm in which the ball is in hits the ground a few inches from the goaline with the person falling backwards, then it would be physically impossible for the ball to have broken the plane of the goaline.
The turnovers and penalties are all on the players and to an extent the coaches, but professional referees should not be making this many errors this often. Mistakes can't be excused for neither the players nor the refs.

as far as the play call on 3rd and 2 goes, as a couple others have said the running game had been extremely effective all day so the play call made sense but like others have posted, I think because of that they should have gone with the play action bootleg. I would have believed both plays would have worked if the oline had done it's part but unfortunately that didn't happen. Plus as TAFKAS mentioned in another thread, what was up with that absolutely pathetic punt by frost?

oh, and walt harris has no right to be starting even though rogers didn't play that well, cuz harris is playing absolutely pathetic the past month or so and his play has personally resulted in quite a bit of the opposing teams offensive success.

:rant: and that's all I have to say about that. :Smoker:

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[QUOTE=redrock-skins]There was a pretty good shot of Betts stepping possibly stepping on the line on his kickoff return. Do we blame the refs there too?[/QUOTE]

I know in the footage that they showed, it seemed to show that his heels never hit the sideline once. he sure as heck came close but u never saw any sideline chalk come up on any of those 3 steps.

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What really gets me is that not one site will show that it really was not 2 pts.
They all hide it and deny it. NFL.com shows him divng over the pile ESPN Diving pver the pile with arrington flying by. The fatc of the matter is the NFL relizes the bad call and therefor will hide this horendous mistake by the officials. If someone can find a picture can they plz post a link?

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[QUOTE=Redskin]What really gets me is that not one site will show that it really was not 2 pts.
They all hide it and deny it. NFL.com shows him divng over the pile ESPN Diving pver the pile with arrington flying by. The fatc of the matter is the NFL relizes the bad call and therefor will hide this horendous mistake by the officials. If someone can find a picture can they plz post a link?[/QUOTE]

Now watch the NFL Network show this game as the game of the week. Fuck how we beat the Eagles or Seattle or the Cowboys. The fact that we left it up to the Refs is our fault given the fact that we should have put them away with 2:00 minutes left.