John McCain: What Went Wrong?

[saden1]

John McCain gone insane? He ventured 3 miles from the green zone accompanied by an armada yet he's claiming some neighborhoods in Iraq are safe?

I want to smoke whatever he's smoking. Seriously, I wouldn't dip my toe in Iraq let alone step foot on it.

[dmek25]

while i wouldnt vote for mccain, i used to respect him. he had his views, and stuck to them. now, he is like everyone else. whatever he thinks the voters want to hear is what he says

[djnemo65]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/wo...mccain.html?hp

Iraqi merchants from that same market disagree with McCain's assessment.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/wo...mccain.html?hp

Iraqi merchants from that same market disagree with McCain's assessment.

Funny how it seems that the New York Times will go out of its way to do anything to make this administration look bad. Every other report I have seen has things getting better but it can always be better. I'm sure if I was a merchant that has been involved in attacks it will take a long time to ever feel safe again. To make an issue because of his security is stupid because if he is seen he becomes a very very high target for insurgents so it has to be done. Just look at how we protect a president here in our own country.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Funny how it seems that the New York Times will go out of its way to do anything to make this administration look bad. Every other report I have seen has things getting better but it can always be better. I'm sure if I was a merchant that has been involved in attacks it will take a long time to ever feel safe again. To make an issue because of his security is stupid because if he is seen he becomes a very very high target for insurgents so it has to be done. Just look at how we protect a president here in our own country.

I hear what you're saying First, but the same day McCain made that statement 6 soldiers were killed. People here in the U.S. aren't looking at progress in terms of the quality of life for Iraquis, they're measuring it by how many of our boys killed on a daily basis.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I here what you're saying First, but the same day McCain made that statement 6 soldiers were killed. People here in the U.S. aren't looking at progress in terms of the quality of life for Iraquis, they're measuring it by how many of our boys killed on a daily basis.

I understand that, its the way the paper seems to go out of its way to find anything negative to report. Where is the out cry from them about our cities that have a higher American murder rate than in a war zone? The lose of any of these young men is one to many but we have even a worse problem in many of our own cities. Maybe its because they are run by democate mayors? Who knows. I'd love to see our guys come home today but that not going to happen. While they are there we need to give them the support they need amd not all of this everyday negative stuff we get from the news. If people don't think all this negative reporting does not embolding the enimy they are crazy. They know what is reported and it gives them even more hope that we Americans will give up the fight. Its well known that the leaders of the insugency say that America is weak and will give up the fight before they do. Leaving us exposed to even more violence. Believe in the war or not we have to keep tings more positive. Just talk to our local service men in our area and they are all sick of what they hear day in and day out from our news and media.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I understand that, its the way the paper seems to go out of its way to find anything negative to report. Where is the out cry from them about our cities that have a higher American murder rate than in a war zone? The lose of any of these young men is one to many but we have even a worse problem in many of our own cities. Maybe its because they are run by democate mayors? Who knows. I'd love to see our guys come home today but that not going to happen. While they are there we need to give them the support they need amd not all of this everyday negative stuff we get from the news. If people don't think all this negative reporting does not embolding the enimy they are crazy. They know what is reported and it gives them even more hope that we Americans will give up the fight. Its well known that the leaders of the insugency say that America is weak and will give up the fight before they do. Leaving us exposed to even more violence. Believe in the war or not we have to keep tings more positive. Just talk to our local service men in our area and they are all sick of what they hear day in and day out from our news and media.

Hey, I grew up in the inner city of D.C. during the 80s and then went off to the first Gulf War a couple of years after high school. I spent 4 yrs on a Naval vessel which was deployed to the Persian Gulf. So you're preaching to the choir on the murder rate of our inner cities vs. the virtues of fighting a war.

I probably know of more 'street casualties' than I really care to talk about. But your point is certainly well taken. It's just that we live in a culture that, unfortunately, places a premium on what's news worthy and what isn't.

I feel your passion, bro, I really do. But there are no real positives in war. The events of 9/11 made our country very emotional and we stood behind President Bush 110% when he declared war on Iraq. And for the most part, even when things began to unravel, we still said, let's do the patriotic thing and support our leader. However, at some point reason and blind loyalty have to give way to truth and facts. Now that the facts have surfaced little by little, the media now feels justified in taking shots at Bush and his cabinet. People that stood with him in the beginning are now distancing themselves from him. They now stand in stark contrast to the individuals that 'went to war' with Bush in the beginning.

The media, in many cases, are simply echoing what's coming out of Bush's own house, so to speak.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Funny how it seems that the New York Times will go out of its way to do anything to make this administration look bad.

How far out of the way do they really have to go though?

This admin. has done a fine job all by itself of making themselves look bad.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Funny how it seems that the New York Times will go out of its way to do anything to make this administration look bad. Every other report I have seen has things getting better but it can always be better. I'm sure if I was a merchant that has been involved in attacks it will take a long time to ever feel safe again. To make an issue because of his security is stupid because if he is seen he becomes a very very high target for insurgents so it has to be done. Just look at how we protect a president here in our own country.

I'm not sure I see your point. It seems like only yesterday that the Times was going out of its way to hype the administration's case for war on it's front pages, while burying articles skeptical of WMD claims at the back of the paper. But that notwithstanding, McCain's point in this specific instance is idiotic. There are not areas in Baghdad in which western politicians can safely walk. That is something that is contradicted by a more than the NYTimes, including most recently and most specifically by retired four star general Barry McCaffrey who said: "[N]o Iraqi government official, coalition soldier, diplomat, reporter, foreign NGO [nongovernmental organization], nor contractor can walk the streets of Baghdad, nor Mosul, nor Kirkuk, nor Basra, nor Tikrit, nor Najaf, nor Ramadi, without heavily armed protection." Source, McCaffrey Paints Gloomy Picture of Iraq - washingtonpost.com

Moreover, if you are suggesting that somehow these merchants don't understand the situation completely (and I'm not sure that you are, I am just trying to understand your point) that would be a tad bit patronizing.

[BrudLee]

McCain's problem is that he's raising funds much slower than anticipated. (He wants to be Hillary, he's looking like Biden). So he's running towards headlines to raise his profile.

[12thMan]

I was floored when he said conditions in Iraq are improving. When is someone going to step up to the damn plate and say we're screwed, bring our boys home.

He should just throw in the towel at this point.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I was floored when he said conditions in Iraq are improving. When is someone going to step up to the damn plate and say we're screwed, bring our boys home.

Even Dems on the Hill concede that Gen. Petraeus and the surge seem to be having a positive effect in Iraq, at least for now.

I certainly understand why many people think Iraq is a lost cause and it may very well be. However, when will such people actually stand up and say "We surrender?" I think we should either stay and fight, or leave immediately, because a half-assed policy of a slow withdrawal is the worst of both worlds. Yet Dems are not willing to call for an immediate withdrawal because they are scared of the political consequences of doing so.

[MTK]

The NYT is definitely as lefty as can be, but this admin has dug their own hole. I find it hard to feel sorry for them.

[Daseal]

Strangely firstdown, the few folks I know in the military told me how low morale was. One was on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border in firefights every night. Said morale was ass, a common question was why are we still here. Luckily he's home now. Another family member went to Iraq for two tours in a amphibious vehicle and said the morale wasn't great.

There's a big difference between supporting a war and supporting the troops. I don't think anyone seriously doesn't support our troops. For the most part they do what they're told. Unless they torture criminals like that one ugly bitch who made them stand in a pyramid and shit (who should go to jail for 30+ years, all of them) I've seen nothing but respect for the soldiers.

It's real American for us to say "They're there. Just deal with it and don't report how many people die per day." There was a large sect of people during the American Revolution that was too worried about hurting Britain's feelings and didn't want to cause any trouble. Who hated publications such as Common Sense. Glad we didn't listen to them, and I hope we don't listen to them again. You can't force 'freedom' on people. If people want freedom and ask for help, fine. We'll be seen as nothing but oppressors and destroyers as long as we're there. The quicker we realize that the better.

[saden1]

Iraq was a war the first 15 days and after the first few days it became a quagmire. I fail to see how we can possibly "win" this "war."